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Kansas Board of Ed. Adopts Intelligent Design

kwietman writes "The Kansas State Board of Education voted 6-4 to allow science students in public schools to hear materials critical of evolution in biology classes. The new curriculum mentions that theories of life arising from similar building-block molecules through purely random processes can be challenged by recent findings in the fossil record and by molecular biology. Not all were happy, however. 'This is a sad day. We're becoming a laughingstock of not only the nation, but of the world, and I hate that,' said board member Janet Waugh. The new standards will be used in statewide standardized testing; the students are still expected to know 'basic evolutionary principles.' As part of the decision, the Board of Education also went so far as to redefine science itself, saying that it is 'no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena.'"

18 of 2,136 comments (clear)

  1. You are only hurting yourself you know.... by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, why is it that the Kansas board of "education" will not allow science and religion to be separately taught? 1) Primarily because they have an agenda that is religiously biased. 2) Because if they allowed a religion class, they would be hard pressed to only teach their version of religion and not also teach Islam, Judaism, Hinduism etc...etc...etc... which these types of people believe would not be acceptable. After all, thinking for yourself is scary.

    Look, before all you ultra right wing whackos start modding me down, you should realize that 1) I am religious and 2) I am also a scientist and see no conflict between religion and science and 3) the Intelligent Design camp are absolutely and completely biased and corruptive of both religion and science. Schools teaching ID are absolutely doing a disservice to the students who are forced to take this curriculum.

    And those in the Kansas government should know that this issue is making Kansas a laughing stock world wide. There is absolutely nothing that you could do to get me to move my family, science or business there. Speaking of business, we are in the initial stages of moving technologies we have developed into the privately funded domain and early estimates are that we are sitting on significantly large markets right out the door with significant expansion likely in a variety of areas. Kansas does not remotely have a chance of attracting businesses like ours given the educational climate required for our work. We need students and employees who are well prepared in the sciences and are capable of thinking independently, and if the school board succeeds in misleading their students, they are of no use to us.

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    1. Re:You are only hurting yourself you know.... by hhawk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The issue here is that they redefine science. Truly a sad day.

      --
      http://www.hawknest.com/
    2. Re:You are only hurting yourself you know.... by Viking+Coder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You missed the point entirely. Newton couldn't explain gravity, but he could describe it. The predictions were falsifiable. Intelligent Design has none of that.

      Yes, Newton was probably more dissatisfied with his inability to explain gravity than anybody. But falling back on "the only way species could exist today is because an intelligent designer made it that way" is a gigantic step backwards (like saying "the only way the planets could move the way they do is because an intelligent designer made them that way"), and redefining science such that it seems as hokey as the bullshit is truly something to be concerned about - some kids might fall for it, and move further towards believing science is indistinguishable from magic - occult magic. You know, The Devil.

      --
      Education is the silver bullet.
    3. Re:You are only hurting yourself you know.... by Pendersempai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "People who make up definitions of science and then try to rule out rival theories because they are not 'scientific' are usually up to no good."

      This is 100% wrong! The scientific method is not up for debate. The reason people at the time were wrong to condemn Newton's notions of gravity is PRECISELY BECAUSE these people were not using the scientific method, and he was!

      "Part of what is at stake in scientific controversy is what the proper definition of science is."

      This is just false. It is easy to define science: it is the advancement (or state of) human knowledge acquired through the scientific method. If you need a definition of the scientific method, any grade school science textbook will give it to you. Empirical falsification of theory and subsequent theorizing is uniquely responsible for the incredible state of technology today. Philosophers' ponderings in their atriums, witch doctors' reasoning from 'first principles,' priest's divine revelations: none of these have yielded any significant and sustained advance in technology EVER. These goddamn rednecks who have decided to redefine science are killing a sacred cow. Science is not whatever you want it to be, it's not a political philosophy, and it's certainly not the expression of religious beliefs in a modern world. It's a single process that has proven throughout history to GET RESULTS. By trying to force it out of the classroom, these imbeciles are doing their children just as much of a disservice as if they replaced mathematics with numerology, astronomy with astrology, or economics with finger-painting.

    4. Re:You are only hurting yourself you know.... by pugugly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is just that - Evolution *has* been caught on tape. And then you dismissed it "I'm not talking about microevolution", because it wasn't what you wanted to see.

      And no - you can't falsify intelligent design, because the way the question is formed makes it unfalsifiable.
      Project: Prove that no intelligent being had a hand in the creation or evolution of life.

      Can't be done - it's a textbook example of proving a negative - logically insoluble. The only way you can prove a negative is by empirical evidence - I don't *know* that we're not actually being held down by thousands of tiny invisible fairies flapping their wings, but I *do* know that things in a vacuum fall done at the same rate, and flapping wings can't help you fly in vacuum, so I consider this theory disproven, so empirically I can prove that no fairies meeting this description are causing the illusion of gravity.

      Intelligent Design has no such empirical test - the theory that we're being pulled down by tiny invisible fairies is in fact a scientific theory in a way that I.D. isn't, because I can design a test to disprove it. Go through enough iterations of my testing the theory, and modifying the theory to fit the new test (They're unbreathing fairies, with tiny 'lil rubberbands holding them down), and we'll find that eventually I have 'fairies' that look astonishingly like gravitons. Personally, Physics is easier than stubbornly staying with the fairies theory, but the nature of the scientific method means I will, after many iterations, home in on the same truths.

      Not all Truths are reachable in this fashion. Godel's theorem would seem to me to indicate that there are truths unreachable through any scientific method, just like there are unreachable truths in any other axiomatic method.

      But if Intelligent design is in that range, then it doesn't belong in a science course by definition. The very fact that Intelligent design is being put forward as an alternative to the falsifiable and scientific theory of evolution seems to indicate that it's not among that rarified group of unscientific things that still happen to be true.

      Anything else is just sloppy thinking.

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    5. Re:You are only hurting yourself you know.... by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Insightful


      some kids might fall for it, and move further towards believing science is indistinguishable from magic - occult magic. You know, The Devil.

      You, my friend, are exactly on top of this matter - you've hit the proverbial nail on the head.

      Why do fundamentalist christians dislike Sci-Fi and Fantasy? Why the outcry against the Lord of the Rings, against Harry Potter, against Dungeons and Dragons?

      Two reasons:

      1.) Inability to tell fact from fiction.
      This derives directly from the fact that their core belief system - the bible - contains things that by any measure are "magic". Water into wine. Rising from the dead. Turning to a pillar of salt. Parting the red sea. Flaming swords guarding the garden of eden. Visions and prophecies and ... oh my! Unfortunately, to deny these things as false is to deny their very legitimacy as a religion; while to accept them as truth is to invite the possibility that other magic exists. Normal people know there aren't elves and wizards and little boys with glasses fighting trolls in the bathrooms at school; but the Fundamentalist Christians are plagued by a nagging sense of "If Magic 'A' exists, Magic 'B' might exist", which brings me to my 2nd point:

      2.) These things are a competing product.
      If magic exists, and only magic in this book is good magic, then everything else must be bad magic; and bad magic can only be attributed to "the Devil". Yes, Christians, there is a global satanic conspiracy - we want your kids to watch Harry Potter, because it will lead them to the Occult, it will make them curious about casting their own spells, and before you know it, they'll be levitating cars and leading hoardes of undead to disrupt your pot-luck picnics. Either that, or it's an amusing work of fiction, which tickles the imagination.

      They've done such a good job throwing DnD, Harry Potter, and everything else under the bus. It's a politically correct climate that they can try to do it with science, now, too. If they can lable "evolution" as "bad magic"... think how far it will put the rest of us back.

      Ah, but here... here, they're intruding on my religion. My god is the scientific method. I rely on facts, collected, verified, and reproducible. I don't deal in myths or untestable conjectures; I deal in science.

      You won't tread on my religion.

      ~Will

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      sig?
    6. Re:You are only hurting yourself you know.... by fluffy666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Darwin's "slow gradual change" is still taught in schools, which the fossil record doesn't (probably) support (with some tolerance being granted from a very spotty fossil record). If you want to yell about something, yell about that.

      I would be interested if you were capable of going into more detail on this. Bear in mind you are talking to a qualified geologist. I think the above is deliberately deceptive, or very ignorant.

      The point where ID better koshers with observations than life as a collection of random processes

      You've lost me here (or are deliberately constructing a strawman). Evolution is not 'a collection of random processes'.

      There's an unaccountably low amount of vestigal processes, especially in processes that would have no competitive advantage

      Interesting. How many 'vestigal processes' does evolution predict? Where is this prediction made (references, please) so that we can have an 'unaccountable low' number of such processes? Or are you simply making things up so support a conclusion you have already arrived at?

      If you claim that biochemical pathways are well designed, here is a question for you:

      Ribulose is the enzyme complex used by plants for fixing Carbon Dioxide for sugar synthesis. It is, to put it mildly, extremely important for life on this planet. Yet it has a massive design flaw - it is poisioned by oxygen! Oxygen causes it to run backwards, burning the very sugars a plant is trying to make. This makes sense from the viewpoint of evolution; photosynthesis evolved when there was no atmospheric oxygen, so it was not a problem, and now the ecological niche for photosynthesis is filled; a better solution has no space to evolve. Yet a designer could 'drop in' a complete new pathway at any time; the conspicuous failure of this to happen being a problem for ID, usually dealt with by sidestepping or ignoring.

      It's interesting that you would want to ask medical students, who are typically taught huge volumes of facts without much underlying theory (for entirely pragmatic reasons; medicine to biology is basically engineering to physics), instead of palentologists or biologists.

  2. Darwinism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now it's up to the colleges/universities to teach Kansas schools about natural selection.
    "Going for a science degree, huh? From Kansas, are you? Interesting..."

  3. redefined science? by GodHammre · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find it rather humorous that you can redefine science based on the word of some ignorant administration officials. Their definition brings voodoo, astrology, and hollywood into the realm of science.

  4. Schools... by Poromenos1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think it is quite wrong to teach ID in schools, not because it's a weird theory but because children in school have learned to believe everything they are taught (I know I was) and don't have the critical thinking required to question those things and decide on their own (that comes later, about at the end of highschool/beginning of college). I remember some pretty outrageous things teachers told us (they obviously didn't know any better) that I believed until much later, and it's a sad realisation when you think that if something like this is false, everything else could be, as well.

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  5. Re:Science isn't science anymore? by One+Louder · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Science is the natural explanation of phenomena.

    ID is a supernatural explanation of phenomena.

  6. Not material critical of evolution by cgenman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    allow science students in public schools to hear materials critical of evolution in biology classes.

    This is not at issue here. You can have all of the material critial of evolution you want in any biology class anywhere in the United States. Criticism is a fundamental part of the scientific process. What you can't do is then turn around and say "because we don't have a good explanation, God did it."

    There is nothing wrong with scientifically saying "your explanation is flawed," "that theory doesn't explain all phenomenon," or even "we don't know." But there is a problem, to quote Asimov, with saying that "Dragons must be pushing the moons."

  7. Re:2006 election by WhiteBandit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just wait till 2006 when the Kansas State Board of Education will have to face the voters on this issue.

    Oh goody. So then the 4 people who voted against it will be voted out of office, further solidifying this teaching policy.

  8. Look at the last part by motbob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look at that last part again--the board rewrote the definition of science. That's astonishing--and by doing so, the board has admitted outright that "intelligent design" isn't science. If it were, they wouldn't have had to change the definition. They're now saying that science class should include supernatural explanations--everything from leprechauns to poltergeists to the balance of bodily humours is now a legitimate part of Kansas' science curriculum.

  9. Misleading headline by cytoman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Kansas Board did not adopt Intelligent Design. Instead it did two things:

    1)It said that schools should present evolution as a flawed theory. This has the effect of students looking at evolution and saying "oh, it's not good enough to explain what we see...". A side effect of this is that the students now become more receptive to kooky ideas like Intelligent Design.

    2)It redefined the meaning of science. According to the new definition, science is no longer is limited to searching for natural explanations for natural phenomena.

    These changes are more damaging to education in the long run compared to adopting Intelligent Design alone.

  10. Non-science debunking science? by nonother · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The theory of evolution has some holes, and it's most likely not 100% correct, but it's a very good working definition. It's just like our understanding of the atom, we have a decent working definition that has need for improvement but that is not to imply that it isn't mostly true. Instead we don't call it too complicated and offer up a non-scientific theory. It all boils down to the fact that denouncing evolution with non-science is unacceptable in a science setting.

  11. Re:2006 election by Teckla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just wait till 2006 when the Kansas State Board of Education will have to face the voters on this issue.

    Yeah, just like George W. Bush had to "face the voters" after his abysmal first term and after starting the debacle in Iraq. The same man who considers Intelligent Design a theory as scientifically as valid as Evolution. Who has publically stated his support for teaching "the other side" (Intelligent Design).

    In case you hadn't noticed, Americans are becoming less and less intelligent as the years go by.

    And now, I must suffer getting voted into oblivion by a million neo-cons. Goodbye, karma.

  12. Re:"Thinking Independently" by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The funny thing about the controversy is that the people opposed to thinking independently are the ones who insist that a collection of ideas be taught as established fact, no longer subject to critical analysis.

    Looks like you need a bit more stuffing in your straw man there, sunshine.

    ID isn't critical analysis at all. It offers no testable hypotheses, no avenues for further study, allows for no modification of its own precepts in the light of new evidence, etc. Basically, ID in its entirety is nothing more than a very verbose "Nu-uh!" to evolutionary theory.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."