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Did Apple Sabotage the ROKR?

JPigford writes "The Apple Blog makes claim that Apple sabotaged the success of the ROKR so as to sway public opinion of MP3 cell phones in general...ultimately to drive more sales to the iPod. By mandating a 100 song limit on the ROKR and having the product flop, Apple was able to put a bad taste in the mouths of consumers so that not only do they drive more iPod sales, but they keep competitors from fighting back with their own MP3 phones."

22 of 502 comments (clear)

  1. Doesn't add up. by H_Fisher · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Has Apple done such a thing before?

    Their name is still connected to this product, by way of iTunes. So, logically, if people's only experience with iTunes comes by way of the ROKR and that experience is a negative one, logically that's going to lead customers to respond by going elsewhere for music and for a portable music player.

    The idea that people might get a ROKR and say "wow, this is cool, I want to buy an iPod now" seems more plausable - as does the idea that more people than you might realize are going to shy away from the all-in-one gadgetization of the phone (with cameras, mps players, video / TV etc.) I am one of those people who would rather have three devices that do their respective functions very well than one that does three different things in a mediocre way.

    1. Re:Doesn't add up. by Gothic_Walrus · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "But how many people are going to want more than 100 songs at a time? My guess woul dbe almost everyone."

      My 512MB iPod Shuffle (which I received for free) can hold maybe 150 songs at most. That translates to eight and a half hours of music with the 128kbps AAC compression, and that's more than enough for bus rides or walking to classes and then swapping out songs when I get bored with the mix in a few days.

      100 songs is more than it sounds like.

      --
      Goo goo g'joob.
    2. Re:Doesn't add up. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Insightful

      this does add up my friend, another article like this was available the day after the crappy rokr came out. apple likely plans on releasing a phone that they design themself in the future.

      How does that add up? You claim they intentionally made a crappy product branded with the itunes name and they made it crappy to promote sales of a new phone they plan to release with the itunes name? It's called poisoning the brand and it is not a good thing. People that buy a crappy itunes phone are unlikely to buy another. And will advise others against it, even if all the drawbacks of the first one are solved.

    3. Re:Doesn't add up. by Xzzy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, no kidding. I can usually make do with a single audio CD's worth of music for a few days before needing to swap out.

      If the ROKR is failing, the only reason it's doing so is because the cell phone market is absolutely saturated. Everyone that wants one already has a phone, and phones aren't fashion items anymore. iPod is.

    4. Re:Doesn't add up. by buckhead_buddy · · Score: 5, Informative
      bigman2003 wrote:
      This is one of the few conspiracy theories that I might actually agree with. Apple, and Sony have the need to push their own products- and damn anyone who wants them to change.

      HP iPod? Dead Apple ][ Clones? Mac Clones?

      Apple likes to be the only source..it's more profitable that way.

      The trouble is that all of these situations are different and don't really suggest any sort of pattern. HP iPod This was a rebranded iPod with HP nameplate, almost like the U2 iPod except that Apple did no promotion of the HP product. HP sold it in places like Office Depot where Apple really had no sales presence. Killed by HP after the shift of the CEO's and a desire for the non-Carly compay to be perceived as a business, rather than consumer, powerhouse. If there was more subversive motivation behind it, it was from an Apple competitor (e.g. Creative or Microsoft) encouraging HP to drop their iPod. Apple ][ clones Competitors like Franklin were outright stealing the ROM code from Apple to power their clone. They didn't reverse engineer anything. There was no license agreement, no corporate cooperation; these examples were just outright theft but in an era when Intellectual Property laws weren't as clear in regards to computer code. Mac clones This was the pre-Jobs plan under Gil Amelio as CEO to license the classic Mac architecture and make money off of sales of the System 7.6 & System 8 OS. Many companies were interested. Steve Jobs returned with the "future" Mac OS and saw this initiative as both burdensome for future development and financially very unfavorable to Apple. If you recall new agreements were made and Apple made a couple of lame duck releases to fulfill the word of the old agreements. Companies lost interest in the new terms. Now you're leaping to the ROKR and saying this fits the same Apple pattern? Not to my mind. Apple and Motorolla give the appearance that this is co-developed. Was it? That's debatable, but it's already a significantly different situation.
    5. Re:Doesn't add up. by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the ROKR is failing, the only reason it's doing so is because the cell phone market is absolutely saturated.

      DING DING DING DING!!!

      Look at that! Somebody finally got to the crux of the issue.

      I think the ROKR looks like a nifty phone, but there's no way I'm buying one because my current phone (also made by Motorola) required that I subscribe to two years of T-Mobile service in order to get it at a sensible price. That was only a few months ago.

      To buy an ROKR, I would have to break that contract (paying an obscene early-exit fee), and sign up for Cingular (another good service provider, but considerably more expensive than my current plan.)

      Ultimately, that would mean hundreds of dollars just to make this minor upgrade over my current Motorola phone (which I'm far from 100% happy with, by the way.) I'm far better off waiting another year and a half for my current service contract to expire and see what's out there at that time, or else just attaching a shuffle to my current phone with hot glue if I really need an all-in-one device so damn badly.

      I'm sure I'm far from the only person out there in such a position.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    6. Re:Doesn't add up. by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      exactly.

      that is why I have a treo 600 in my pocket.

      I have a mp3 player that works great, interrupts the song with a ring during a call and allows me to answer by pressing a button on my stereo headset nd take the call with the headset. I get the bonus of getting rid of my palm PDA with it and have that legendary stability of palm (the reason why I got the 600 instead of the 650)

      plus I can watch tv shows and movies from my replayTV or computer on it as well.

      so it doesnt use itunes, big whoop to me and many other people.

      this phone is not the first mp3 player/phone to ever exist even though they are trying to market it that way.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  2. Maybe, but Motorola helped. by Matey-O · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Have you held a ROKR and RAZR at the same time? It's like Motorola can make a gadget pretty, or functional, but not both at the same time.

    What's most puzzling is: It's all the same OS. Their cheapest and most expensive phones have an almost identical menu structure. Making a Java/iTunes app shouldn't have taken as long as it did.

    Lastly. A RAZR is free with a 2 year contract. A 512mb shuffle (which holds more songs) is $80. The two of them together in the same pocket is a better solution than the ROKR....and will go longer on a charge!

    --
    "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
    1. Re:Maybe, but Motorola helped. by KarmaPolice · · Score: 4, Informative

      Have you held a ROKR and RAZR at the same time? It's like Motorola can make a gadget pretty, or functional, but not both at the same time.

      Well, the new RAZR V3i seems to be both, so there goes you argument and TFA straight down the drain!

      I could only find this danish article, but it's got a perdy picture:
      http://comon.dk/index.php/news/show/id=24259

  3. Unlikely by Doomstalk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's as much of a chance (if not a greater one) of Apple damaging the iPod brand image as there is of driving people to standalone iPods. The potential gains don't seem worth the immense risk. I'd chalk this one up as a crackpot conspiracy theory.

  4. i also heard... by CDPatten · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple made OSX 10.0 as a way to drive people to Windows.

    Seriosuly, how did this post make is to the front page of slashdot? Its a first attempt, they will get better over time, especially as technology improves. That aside, apple certainly doesn't want its good name attached to things that flop. Its bad PR.

  5. C'mon by Otter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I can believe that Apple didn't want to cannibalize their own line, and made their deal with Motorola with that in mind.

    But "sabotage"?!? Motorola isn't a couple of kids with a lemonade stand, and it's not even a huge corporation operating outside its normal business. Surely they have enough experience with portable consumer electronics to have dealt with Apple with their eyes open.

  6. Does everything have to be a conspiracy? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The X-Files was a good show, folks, but it's time to move on.

    There are no alien abductions, there are no chemtrails, we really did go to the Moon and all the big problems in the country- from 9/11 to Katria relief- are the result of chaos, sloppiness and stupidity unguided by secret cabals or ninja assassins or Skull and Bones members.

  7. First hand experiance with the ROKR by jandrese · · Score: 5, Informative

    I bought the ROKR for my Wife because she needed a new phone (Cingular was telling her that her old one was being obsoleted and would be shut off eventually) and because I wanted her to stop stealing my iPod all of the time.

    Overall, I think people have been too harsh on this little phone. It does have some flaws, but overall it's pretty nice. It even has some surprises, like the phone speaker good enough to use the little guy like a tiny boombox. Also, people are focusing on the wrong things when they complain about the phone, the 100 song limit isn't the real issue (think of it like the Shuffle, not a regular iPod), it's the USB1 interface that makes loading songs an almost overnight affair. Also, the battery life seems a bit short to me, although I suspect there will be a firmware upgrade for it at some point to keep it from draining the battery after only 1 day of sitting idle. The lights on the side are kinda cool, but really touchy and better left disabled. The camera is surprisingly good for a phone though. The 100 song limit is not a huge deal because the phone only comes with 512MB of memory anyway and 100 average length songs does a pretty good job of filling that up. It's only a big issue if you don't believe in listening to any song longer than 30 seconds or something.

    Despite the drawbacks, the phone does a pretty good job of what it's supposed to do, and the interface on the phone is quite nice.

    Quick tip for anybody with the ROKR: Enable the option in iTunes that downcoverts all songs to 128kbps. If you don't do that, it will just silently refuse to load any song encoded higher and make you pull your hair out in frustration while you try to figure out why half of your playlist is being silently ignored.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  8. Sucker by flyinwhitey · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's just what they want you to think.

    --
    How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
  9. 100 song limit by brass1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is a simple explanation for the 100 song limit that has already been alluded to in various statements by Motorola and Apple.

    The SanDisk Transflash drive in the phone is removable and replaceable. There is nothing stopping a ROKR owner from replacing the 512M drive with a much larger one (such as the 1G version). Therefore it makes perfect since to put an artificial limit on the number of songs. The USB 1.1 transfer rates are likely a factor as well.

    I own one, and use iTunes on a nearly daily basis on public transportation to and from work. It's much more discrete than carrying around an iPod (two of which I also own) and is something I have to have in my pocket anyway. The 100 song limit doesn't bother me so much, and I refill it about once a week so the transfer rates, while annoying, are tolerable.

    And yes, the phone's interface is a bit clunky, but I find most cell phones suffer from this affliction. My biggest gripe is what appears to be a lack of processing power. The command response borders on dreadful. A more complete j2me environment would have been helpful as well, but that's generally an issue with Motorola.

  10. Aha, that also explains: by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 5, Funny
    • The Apple III.
    • The Lisa.
    • The 128K Mac.
    • The $400 external 400K diskette drive.
    • OpenDoc.
    • System 7.
    • The Mac TV.
    • The Mac Portable.
    ... all cleverly designed to be turkeys ... ON PURPOSE!
  11. Re:It's probably true by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hate to point out the obvious, but apple does like control over products using it's services. Is it really that far fetched?

    Of course it isn't - if you're leveraging Apple's stuff, then prepare for them to protect their own best interests as well. However the idea that they were trying to sour consumers on the idea of integrated devices sounds a little bit ridiculous (though it earned that terribly-heavyweight site lots of views) - Consumers don't have such a disconnect between devices, and a good MP3 player, whether a part of a cellphone, a PDA, or a stand-alone, is a good MP3 player, and the bad ones are bad ones. Indeed, there are a lot of terrible stand-alone MP3 players by shoddy companies, but I'd hardly say that it "soured the market" such that the iPod couldn't happen. It sounds more likely that Apple wanted to limit how much the specific device ate into their own sales - all of the advantages of the iPod, but with a couple of limitations. It says or predicts nothinga bout competing devices.

    Personally I think the time is long overdue for good integrated cell/pda/mp3 players. MP3 playing in particular is so trivial that it's absurd that we have such powerful electronics that we lug around, but they can't credibly and easily play mp3s. Usually the implementation is ridiculously short sighted (I got a PDA to double as an MP3 player, and everything worked great but the DAC was terribly low quality. A couple of cents and they destroyed that entire use).

  12. Re:It's probably true by IDontAgreeWithYou · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't think the time is right for a "good integrated cell/pda/mp3 player". I think the problem is the life expectancy and different function of each of these items. I expect to keep a cell phone for the length of my contract (1-2 years) and it will serve me for work and personal use. My PDA is pretty much work only, but I may expect to hold on to it longer than a year or two. Finally, an MP3 player is strictly for my personal enjoyment and I will keep it as long as it works (or until something vastly superior comes along).

    I want specialized devices, not a "jack of all trades, master of none" device and I don't think I am alone in this. So I think to say that a "good integrated cell/pda/mp3 player" is long overdue just isn't true.

    --
    Finding other idiots on /. that agree with your opinion doesn't make it any less stupid.
  13. Re:It's probably true by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not to mention the battery issue.

    Of a small rechargable battery, a good cell phone can give you about a week of stand-by time without recharging. Even if you use it a lot, you should only need to charge it about once every day or two while avoiding it every completely running the charge out.

    If you let it run out, you could miss an important call, so this is important.

    An MP3 Player's battery's life cycle is measured in hours of playback, and when it runs out, it's no big deal. You just need to hook it up to a charger for 1-4 hours sometime before the next time you want to listen to it.

    Make the same device to both functions, and guess what your biggest problem is going to be.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  14. Re:It's probably true by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I want specialized devices, not a "jack of all trades, master of none" device and I don't think I am alone in this.

    This line gets dragged out everytime this gets brought up, yet already our electronics have seen integration, and it is only going to continue - indeed accelerate. There is a point in PDAs, MP3 players, and cell phones, where it is good enough to completely satsify the majority of consumers - it is, in effect, a master of the realm if it satisfies the consumer, even if a specialized high-end stand-alone unit lets them add irrelevant effects to their music. I love my Digital Rebel XT, yet there are a lot of people for whom the digital camera in their cell phone is more than adequate (with extreme portability to boot).

    My cell phone already has a pretty powerful processor in it, a good colour screen, a very capable data entry/navigation system, it's tiny, and has a fantastic battery. Flash memory is getting ultra cheap, so it's obvious that cell phones are increasibly going to integrate MP3 players (and FM radios), and even video and PDA functionality (of course you could say that PDAs are integrating cell phones - it's all the same thing). Why should I carry three different devices - all of them powered by general purpose CPUs (often the SAME CPU) just running different software, with a slightly different form?

  15. Apple figures out a way to screw Moto? And? by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 5, Funny
    This is some kind of a surprise?

    Let's see - Moto strangled the G5, forcing Apple to IBM, and then to finally say "fuck the lot of you" and go over to Intel.

    Ooooh- but then again, Apple pulled the plug on the clones, screwing Moto out of millions...

    Oooooh, but then again...

    Basically, Apple and Moto have been bad for each other for YEARS - this latest notion comes as no surprise.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.