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Microsoft Competes In Supercomputer Market
HoboMaster writes "Microsoft is releasing a public beta of Windows Compute Cluster Server 2003 in their first attempt to compete in the supercomputer OS market. Gates is planned to speak at the 2005 Supercomputer Conference, which will be Microsoft's first appearance at the conference. Gates, as always, has high hopes for this new version of Windows, even claiming it to be as powerful and easier to use than Linux."
so its super blue screen(s) of death
Normal is Boring!! http://www.dealwithdeals.com/
"easier to use than Linux"
Yes? Where is the part about the high hopes for this operating system?
... well for me, it was clusterfuck.
And I can bet it won't be included with their client systems.
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
Supercomputers aren't about "Ease of use." They're about speed per dollar. When WCC can beat Linux on price/performance, then people will stand up and take notice. Not before.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
The Opteron AMD processor is going into CRAY Supercomputers, so it only makes sense that Microsoft start making Windows for those AMD computers. What's next, a Beowulf cluster of Bill Gates?
Oh You POS
I don't know what the "easy to use" argument precisely means in this arena. The people assembling and managing large clusters to produce supercomputers are in a significantly different league than your average MS-Word user. Not to poo-poo MS or anything, but Gates seems to have forgotten the audience in this case.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
In what way? It seems the two are equivalent- double click this icon to start a program. Menu bar over there for a list of all programs. Except Linux has a good text interface as well as the GUI. If anything, that gives the edge to Linux.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
It's hard to see how MS will gain much market penetration in this area unless it substantially alters its licensing. As I said in another post, "ease of use" isn't exactly going to be a big selling point for the guys putting these kinds of computers together, and OS licensing costs of $0.00 is hard to beat.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
... as we'll undoubtedly need a cluster to actually run Vista.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
The NY Times has this article. The opening paragraphs were a bit more intriguing:
"In January a group of Microsoft researchers set out to discover how much computing power they could buy for less than $4,000 at a standard online retailer. They found the answer at NewEgg.com, where they were able to purchase - for just $3,632 - 9.5 gigaflops of computing speed. That is the amount of computing power offered by a Cray Y-MP supercomputer in 1991 at a cost of $40 million."
Nothing says "Product of the Future" like the beta version of a product named "Windows Compute Cluster Server 2003".
Sure, they're doing it to maintain the "2003" branding of the flagship server. But why, less than two months before the end of 2005, are they not even trying to sound modern?
I have to say, I just don't think developers will go for it. First of all, if you're setting up a cluster of, say, 20 machines to run some MPI programs, you're going to be funneling some serious coin microsoft's way.
Secondly, I, like many developers, have been running MPI programs on Linux clusters for some time now. What's my incentive to switch? All I've got is penalties, like having to buy software and stuff. MPI is already free, open source software. So now MS sticks it in their OS and sell it as a new platform?
At least for me, this is too little, too late. I'll do what I've been doing, which is run my parallel code on Linux.
"ease of use" isn't exactly going to be a big selling point for the guys putting these kinds of computers together
.. OK, that's better:
Excuse me while I find my tinfoil hat....
What if MS is doing this so that it can strongarm universities and research institutions? Something like going to the bean counters and saying "hey, we have this great new OS for supercomputers - we'll give you a reduced rate on it, *AND* a reduced rate on the licenses for the rest of your desktops, if you just agree to kick that smelly, communistic, viral, legally-dubious Linux off your clusters! (Did we mention that if you're using Linux, you might have to give up all your precioussss IP?)"
Blue Screens Per Second
When I worked at Microsoft, I specifically argued *against* getting involved in HPC markets. It isn't really an interesting market. It isn't a big market. And it never will be. If anything it will get smaller rather than bigger. Yes, there are some applications that are not going away but these are not common. After all how many customers does Cray have? How many customers does Microsoft have? Ok, you have the answer to my question. Heck, the ISP and web presence provider markets are more important to Microsoft strategically than HPC.
Indeed I cannot think of *any* reason why one would want Windows on an HPC cluster. Indeed, with Microsoft's reliance on COM and IPC stuff, I would be highly skeptical of using the Windows development environment in these cases. Yes, async I/O might be more mature on Windows, but I think that on the whole, Linux is a better choice.
As for the ease of use factor. This is a product that is really only needed by a few highly technical people. Ease of use for beginners is not important here. Ease of use by experienced UNIX admins is. Sadly Windows fails here pretty badly. After all not everyone needs to build a Beowulf cluster with licensed Windows software in their basement and the intensive number crunching apps that such clusters are used for are the exception rather than the rule.
Finally.....
Why not take Windows Server 2003 Standard or even XP Pro (for fewer than 10 nodes), install SFU 3.5 and PVM and build your cluster that way? It seems that this would be better for the market than this new product which seems to be the worst of both worlds.
This is just about saying "Anything Linux can do Windows can do better" rather than pursuing any reasonable business plan.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
1. PHB sees Microsoft adverspamming for Windows Computer Cluster 2003, and believes the drivel. ...
2. PHB makes case to execs, gets capital for an 80-node WCC2K3 cluster for eleventy billion dollars, thanks to Licensing 7.
3. Admins shake their heads in disdain, get the thing running, and walk away.
4. Developers waste time and resources reinventing the wheel.
5. Nodes start to get rooted because the admins didn't harden the system.
6. Organized crime groups use nodes to DDoS websites in the name of extortion.
7.
8. Profit! (for Microsoft, at least).
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
They bring very little value to the back end. A typical distributed app is not a rich UI client that needs lots of Windows APIs to play DRM'd movies, so Windows has no advantage there. It's a C, C++, or Fortan (mixed, even) job running MPI over some specialized interconnect hardware.
You also need a good parallel file system which I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that CIFS is probably not the optimal choice - any real system will probably be using a dedicated filer.
However, their strong suit in this space are tools like IDEs. If they can convince folks that using Windows as a front-end to development, then they can make some good inroads.
Right now the supercomputing folks are starting to get interested in Eclipse, and they're trying to head that off, not to mention small ISV's like us.
I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
And even if MS were so compelled, what really is in it for Redmond? It's probably the smallest market in the world, with a customer base measured in the thousands, and one that already has access to either operating systems with a long multicomputing heritage or to clustered Linux systems that, for the kinds of guys that set up and maintain supercomputer clusters, offers no unreasonable difficulties as far as usability.
I think what we have here is Gates' inferiority complex towards Linux. He desperately wants to have MS in every market, and can't stand the thought of that open source demon increasingly being utilized, so he'll waste money on a product that, even if it were to be a success within that marketplace, would provide an outrageously small amount of revenue.
I suppose MS has money to burn, but if I had that much money to piss away, I'd try to take over the pocket calculator or security alarm markets.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
A standard line from Bill, "wait till you see Vista its better", "wait till you see compute its faster".
Amazingly the press continue to take Microsoft at face value on annoucing their version as better when they don't release what they announce.
So sure MS is better at supercomputers... I mean they have such a history in it, just look at the top 500 its just littered with MS boxes.
This isn't Windows v Linux, this is MS Research v IBM Research. The people behind the CPU, Relational databases, reliable messaging and of course the huge amount of work on massively scalable computers. If MS had real ability they'd be working with the big processing boys from the goverment and weather prediction areas.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
It's kind of like the way the GUI opened up computing to a lot of people who found a command line interface daunting, to say the least.
Superclippy: It seems you're trying to factor large prime numbers. Would you like to engage the Microsoft Compute Cluster interface?
Just watch the making of documentary for epIII of star wars, and look at all the shiny G5's hooked up to xserve's with awsome apple cinema display's.
Better yet, watch the end credits - look for the huge AMD logo. Episode III was rendered on Opterons, not XServes.
They spent billions to make a new Windows which turned out to need a supercomputer to run, and now they are desperately trying to find customers.