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'Type Manager' The File Manager of Tomorrow?

IceFox writes "In the past few years many of us have been introduced to a new type of application, the Type Manager. Most of us are familiar with iTunes, but there are many other Type Managers out there that are gaining market share and a rabid fan base of users such as digiKam and amaroK. Type Managers seem to have that magic combinations of features that makes users love them. I have been taken a closer look at the Type Manager, what makes them so usefull, what they really provide for the user and came to some surprising results. After creating a list of all the traits of a Type Manager I was able to define exactly what a file manager should be and discovered that there are in fact many partial Type Managers out there now that implemented only half of what makes up a full Type Manager."

29 of 321 comments (clear)

  1. Well your Type Manager... by City+Jim+3000 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...should learn to Type Type Manager Less.

  2. Move Along by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 3, Informative

    Move along, nothing to see here. This is nothing but shameless self-promotion from a guy who can't even spell "useful" correctly.

    1. Re:Move Along by Enigma_Man · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Has anybody tried a type-manager style file manager, and preferred the old, usual way of doing things? I certainly do. Maybe it's just because that's the way I've always done things, and I'm used to it, and have gotten good at it, but I like my files where I put them as files, not as metadata or anything else like that.

      -Jesse

      --
      Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
    2. Re:Move Along by JabberWokky · · Score: 3, Informative
      I couldn't use a "music type manager" for a chunk of my collection -- my music is mixed up with lyrics, performance notes and tablature for when I actually play it (as in pull out an instrument and use it). Amarok is great to kick back and listen to music with (Wikipedia and related song links are nifty), but the brutal truth is that 99% of the time I'm just listening it could just be any player that shuffles a playlist. When I'm actually *using* the files, I need more than just a single format app.

      Same goes for images and text: I organize by project, and most have real world notebooks and folders associated with them. Even the directories full of source code and purely computer related items usually have a physical logbook associated with them and have a dozen file types in a few to over a hundred directories.

      There are two major types of applications that handle multiple types of files and let you organize them by directory. They let you manipulate them with a wide variety of tools and other applications. They are called file managers and shells. I'm partial to Konqueror and bash, but YMMV.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    3. Re:Move Along by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Insightful
      but I like my files where I put them as files, not as metadata or anything else like that.
      You do realize that the file path is metadata in and of itself, don't you? The only difference between a file path and, say, keywords is that the former is thinking in terms of the computer (sort of like C), whereas the latter is thinking in terms of the data (sort of like Java).
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:Move Along by syukton · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You couldn't use a music type manager? An application that ties together all of the different things related to music but which are unrelated to one another? So...you wouldn't like it if your music player also displayed lyrics when a song came on? Or if it displayed the tablature as well? Or if you could search all your music for a particular chord or melody or lyric or date when you performed it with your band (or whatever)? You seem to misunderstand what a "type manager" could (or should?) be.

      Much like the example in the article of Nero ripping CDs, burning CDs/DVDs, making ISOs and browsing ISOs, you seem to want to do a lot of stuff that is related to music, but which aren't directly related to one another. Displaying the tablature is related to the music, but is largely unrelated to displaying the lyrics and both of those are largely unrelated to the date when you last played the song live, but it's all information which is directly related to the music itself.

      As far as images and text, it sounds like the "type" you need to manage is "project" -- I've found myself in a similar boat, lately. Doing 3D renderings which go along with 2D Photoshopped documents which together go with a text document specifying which part goes where and which figure should be consulted for what part of the specification. All of this could be organized by project, and then I could search through my projects for everything using LEDs or everything that makes use of PIC microcontrollers or everything that required woodworking or all of the projects I did before 2004, or whatever. I've wanted, for a long time, such a "project manager" type of application.

      I don't think you understood the scope of what a "type manager" really is. The idea is like a database using the primary format as the key, but the database can store more than just the primary format. In the case of a "music type manager" the key would be a music file itself, but the associated data would be the lyrics, the musical notation, tablature, performance notes, and so on. The same way that a dictionary is indexed on single words but contains many words in the definition; or that an encyclopedia is indexed on ideas or concepts but contains more than just that in the article (ie, a wikipedia article contains images and audio in addition to ideas and concepts).

      Just because iTunes doesn't do what you want for your music doesn't mean that a type manager wouldn't satisfy your needs. It sounds like you may need something more akin to a "musical performance manager" or some other "type" but don't discount type managers out-of-hand because iTunes doesn't float your boat and is the primary example of the article.

      --
      Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
  3. Type Manager? What? by Agermain · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hope I'm not the only one that had to wonder what iTunes and amaroK had to do with Adobe Type Manager and Suitcase.

  4. Adobe was there first ;-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Adobe Type Manager Light

    Next time, check prior art before appropriating a phrase and giving it whatever meaning you feel like.

    Not to mention, "Type Manager" is a terrible name for "application that manages files of some type".

  5. Nothing to see here... by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Informative

    A couple of pages of rambling is far from "news". This might be an interesting read for someone who has never thought of content or contextual organization before, but it's really old hat.

    Now, if this goober had coded up a new manager which integrated all the functions he talked about, or had an extensble base manager to replace the native file system, with a defined api for plugins that would allow you to customize the environment, that would be news.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  6. STOP THE PRESS! by sg_oneill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    New must-have! metadata!

    Coming soon! The macintosh.

    --
    Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
  7. 'Type Manager'? Worst. Buzzword. Ever. by hoggoth · · Score: 5, Funny

    Could he come up with a more generic and confusion-prone buzzword than 'Type Manager'?!

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  8. Re:type manager ? WTF ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How do you think technical definitions are invented in the first place?

  9. Type Manager by FooGoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is article is idiotic and totally misses the reason why these types of applications are a success. It's not about the type of data being managed it's about ease of which you can share that data with other people who have the same interests. It's about building a community of simiar interests.Microsoft Word is the "type manager" of doc files but I don't know that many people who sit around trading doc files and discussing the differences between how Word 6 rendered text versus Word 95.

    The author should dig a little deeper...it's not about the data stupid.

    --
    People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
    1. Re:Type Manager by kurtmckee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsoft Word is the "type manager" of doc files

      No, Word is the "editor" of doc files, you see the difference? Windows Explorer is the current "type manager" of .doc files.

      It's not about the type of data being managed it's about ease of which you can share that data with other people

      Good job, you saw the word "iTunes" and thought he was talking about music. In the article, the author concludes with further examples of what he's talking about, such as Valve's Steam (game manager), many MAME frontends (ROM manager), as well as others.

      Yes, people love to share, but that's not the same thing as managing. I want to have all of my music categorized and tagged. I want all of my photos organized with captions and tags. I want all of my email properly filed and readily accessible. There is no way a file manager can properly manage all of those different file types (not even you, Emacs). Thus, the author seems to be suggesting that specialized file managers, each appropriate to the types of data it's designed for, are a better management interface than a simple file manager with applications to edit individual files.

      As for your statements about sharing, I would argue that sharing is an example of exporting. Exporting, meanwhile, is something that happens in a management interface. I can export my songs to an audio, MP3, or data CD; my photos can be exported to CD, to Gallery, to Flickr, etc. I wouldn't want my file manager to handle all of those possible export options; it would be a mess (I'm looking at you, Konqueror).

      It is about the data, stupid.

  10. Assumes Type-based work by G4from128k · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I always organize my files by project. I remember seeing the file system of a friend at work. He had carefully segregated all his files by type. He had a folder full of word processing files (separate folders for each word processors that the company routinely used at the time), another for spreadsheets, another for MATLAB files, another for graphics, etc.

    My friend had basically created a Type Manager-like approach. I thought it was crazy because the engineering projects that we did used multiple files of multiple types. On his system the files of any given project were scattered across all these type-based of folders.

    My point is that Type Managers can be very useful if a given activity only uses one application or type of file (e.g., rip/mix/burn/listen with music). But when the activity spans multiple types it drives the user back to using a general file manager. In such situations, existing Type Managers fragment the user's access to files and become a hinderance if the project's files are scattered across an email client, a photo manager, a sound file manager, etc.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Assumes Type-based work by DoctorMO · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Perhaps what you want to use is his File Type Manager with a few tags for your projects, so you could both tag a file as coming from a certain person, apart of a certain project and when It was created/saved.

      No this guy who wrote this article is not stupid or talking about old news, he's setting down exactly what everyone knows but placing it all under an 'idea' this is a very powerful brain tool that allows developers to move their projects towards such goals because they can quickly adapt the projects aims to incorporate the ideas without having to do the leg work of converting a music projects functionality into a photo projects functionality.

      Once again slashdoters miss the boat on why this article is usefull.

  11. Re:Type Manager? What? by BushCheney08 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The best (and only) way to deal with a mime is with a gun.

    --
    Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
  12. Re:type manager ? WTF ? by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 4, Funny

    They're cromulently embiggened of course.

    --
    "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
  13. Creating type managers by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Funny

    What's needed is a class library which speeds the creation of Type Managers. It should have a Document base class which applications could extend to contain document info, and a View base class which would abstract the user interface. Both would have base methods for all the common stuff, and you'd extend them with the specifics of what you're trying to do. There'd be Views derived classes based on common widgets, like dialogs and lists.

    Additionally, there'd be a way for software components to register as viewers of file types in some global database, so that they could integrate with the default shell and display previews. They should also be able to open the type manager or print, perhaps integrating into shell's context menus.

    Yup, welcome to Windows 95 with a bunch of MFC applications, COM components and the registry.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  14. Excellent choices of hackneyed responses. by ahem · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe I'm the only one who sees some irony in people using the Comic Book Guy style of response to mock and belittle an interesting work. The small minds living in Mom's basement can only denigrate a reasonably well organized treatise on an interesting subject. Commenters have pointed out that "there's nothing new here", "this guy chose a bad name", "this is only novel to someone who hasn't thought of this before."

    So what, people? A refinement is a refinement. It's stepwise by nature. This is news because someone's aggregated their perceptions of the world and the ideas they sparked into one place. One of you complained about, "why didn't he publish an actual piece of code with an api for plugins?", and I suggest that maybe someone who reads this, who hadn't thought of all this before, might take this as a launching point and actually write something useful.

    Let's enjoy the journey. If we happen to visit a few points along the road more than once, it's no big deal. Seeing the same vista from a different viewpoint can be refreshing.

    --
    Not A Sig
    1. Re:Excellent choices of hackneyed responses. by electroniceric · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Couldn't agree more. I thought this was a thoughtful, well-organized essay, and definitely merits a discussion on Slashdot (which discussion, of course, is shaping up to be neither thoughtful nor well-organized). I also think a base "Data Type Manager" is an interesting idea that merits some thought and experimentation, and to the extent that this treatise and discussion encourage that, it's a great thing.

      One of the subtle ideas this (Activity) Type Manager approach brings up is the difference between task-based and activity-based software. Back when I was on the KDE usability list, we did a lot of talking (and a lot less acting) on the subject of task-based start menus, control panels, and applications, in an attempt to get away from content-based ones. You very quickly run into the problem that there are a lot of tasks, and some of them are used in a variety of ways. But an activity ("deal with music using your computer") is big enough and happily amorphous enough that it just might bridge that gap. Another nice idea about the Activity Type Manager is that it can take on the job of figuring what metadata is important for that activity (and associated tasks) and deal with capturing and organizing that metadata.

      There are some big drawbacks to this approach, namely that it requires grouping things into categories again ("activities"), and that produces a whole new set of cross-activity aspects that people have to work with, which vastly increases the complexity of the software.

      Nonetheless, it's an interesting idea and worthy of discussion.

  15. Type Manager? by AyeRoxor! · · Score: 3, Funny

    I have been taken a closer look at the Type Manager, what makes them so usefull, what they really provide for the user and came to some surprising results.

    When it manages basic spelling and grammar, count me in.

  16. The missing question by TheConfusedOne · · Score: 4, Funny

    Do you have to use a silencer on the gun?!?

    --
    --- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
    1. Re:The missing question by nutrock69 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You don't even need to use a real gun.

  17. Re:type manager ? WTF ? by Snarfangel · · Score: 4, Funny

    who the fuck gave this guy a license to make up new technical definitions on the fly ?

    Those responsible have been sacked.

    Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...

    --
    This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
  18. the author thinks outside the geek box, can you? by totro2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hi all,

    No doubt Slashdot geeks will scoff at this article. Geeks want to discover for themselves the best way to do anything and everything on their computer. They shun having all related functionality served up to them on a silver platter as a coherent piece of software, which geeks been trained to distrust because slimy corporations usually make them (and contain slimy commercial intrerests over user interests).

    The author is suggesting "hey geeks, why don't you be the ones to make the pan-functionally coherent software"? Then there will actually be alternatives (from a novice user, non-geek perspective) to, say, Windows Media Player, which does not expose your ripped files to the filesystem at all (a slimy corporate tactic)!

    The author is suggesting that all the little tools laying around like "grep" or "awk" (that novice users will never learn) be combined into larger software that is easy to use by novice users. A few nice Open Source programs are pioneering this effort, like K3B, and the author is suggesting, "hey, now do that everywhere, for everything, and Open Source will win the day." Which I agree with.

    Yes, it is far more fun to nitpick his choice of the term "Type Manager", but there is a big lesson here for geeks, who often times have a hard time understanding what novice users want. Novice users (ie. the other 98% of computer users who are not geeks) want software that beautifully presents them all the best choices in a coherent application for a given activity. Open Source Geeks have the opportunity to do this and win, by doing it and leaving out the corporate slime that nobody wants.

  19. Re:wrong by NialScorva · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A "path" is a digraph that has only one node without a parent. Directories are just a delimited list of the node labels. In Unix-like systems you can have multiple parents or labels for the same node via links.

    How is a file path different than "music/albums/Irresistable Bliss" or "C:\My Documents\Soul Coughing\Irresistable Bliss\"? They're both descriptions on how to locate a series of files, one being through information about the disk structure and one through information about the categorization. They're both aliases for a bunch of inodes on the filesystem, which is a bunch of clusters on the disk.

  20. Re:type manager ? WTF ? by SuperRob · · Score: 3, Funny

    Thanks for that explanation, Super Nintendo Chalmers.

  21. Your standard file manager *IS* a "Type Manager" by MasterC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The author's "Type Manager" is nothing more than a manager utilizing more metadata than normally.

    Your classic file manager *IS* a type manager because the file name is a metadatum and the parent directory is a metadatum: neither are direct data (such as what I'm typing now). So organizing, say, a code base on a directory hierarchy that may include module names or library names or file types (docs go here, man files there, source files over there, etc.) *IS* feeding metadata to your filesystem to organize your files.

    The "Type Manager" has existed from Day 1 when files were given names. (Punch cards are before my time but I suspect the punch cards that represented a program were stored together and each program was stored separately. At this point, *you* are the metadata organizer.) Since then, it has only progressed from a flat file system (the likes of Apple IIc) to a one-level deep filesystem to a multi-level filesystem (no linking) to a multi-level graph filesystem (includes linking). Now apps are taking it to the next step by merely using more metadata. That's it, nothing new.

    In the end, the bits that represent your actual data is a long string of bits (losely stated) and your filesystem is just a type manager organizing your bits by file names and parent directories. bash, Windows Explorer, Finder, etc. are all just wrapping your metadata organizer (your fs) and some (previously and now) are using file-specific metadata for further organization.

    Big whoop.

    From the article:
    Type Manager applications are not new, in fact you probably have been using one since you got an internet connection.

    It appears the author doesn't even fully understand the concept of metadata (*ahem* "Type") and it's usage has long existed before your email client and long before your internet.

    Seriously, nothing to see here! In fact, I want my time back for reading it...

    --
    :wq