Darwinia To Be Distributed via Steam

Nuskrad writes "Independent developers Introversion Software, creators of cult hacking sim Uplink have announced a deal with Valve that will see their highly acclaimed title, Darwinia distributed on the Steam platform from December 15th. It is hoped that the deal will help boost sales of Darwinia, and the profile of Introversion Software, which has been struggling against the 'big boys' of the industry."

Comments

Steam blows.

[Godeke]

I tried Darwinia out and it had some appeal. However, they can forget about me ever becoming a customer via Steam. I'm not sure why DRM on music CD's gets everyone in a tizzy around here and yet Steam is the cat's pajamas, despite the fact it gives Valve remote termination capabilities over the software.

When I purchased Half Life, I was able to play it on my machine and then when I was done my son was able to play it on his. The CD meant I could run only one copy, which I was fine with (in fact, I removed everything but the save files from my machine: I had finished the freaking Zen jumping puzzles and *wasn't* going back.

With Half Life 2, if I put the CD into my machine, it is "bound" to that machine. If my son then tries to put it into his machine and activate it, it will terminate my original account's access to the game and *not* grant the other machine access either. Valve has been bragging up how they have disabled 30,000 steam accounts. That's 30,000 *valid* purchases that were disabled because of potentially the situation described. Wow, sign me up for a reaming up the ... well you get the point.

So, while Darwinia may be cool and all, Steam is *not* the way to distribute in a user friendly manner.

Re:Steam blows.

[Vivic]

Does anyone know of any reviews of Darwinia? It looks interesting.

Re:Steam blows.

[rvw14]

I am suprised you had a problem with this. Of course you can't use the same copy on two machines at the same time, but it works just fine for me when I am visiting family to fire up my steam account on that machine and play.

Re:Steam blows.

[TheRealFritz]

Unfortunately, DRM in general is an industry trend that'll be very difficult to stop. The vast majority of people buying DRM protected Software, Audio, Games don't even know about it, until they find they can't do something. Amazingly, even people working in the software industry have no clue about DRM.

Generally, the best way to combat silliness such as DRM is with your wallet, but because DRM is well hidden and only a small percentage of the population knows about it, voting with your wallet is difficult to do in this case.

Things such as the broadcast flag might perhaps get the public to notice DRM and hate it, once TV here in the US goes all digital.

Re:Steam blows.

[GeckoX]

I'm quite certain his problem is that he was trying to run the same physical copy of HL2 under a different Steam account. That would get him blocked.

The account and the physical copy attached to the account go hand in hand.

Re:Steam blows.

[Chosen Reject]

So what you are saying is you bought one copy and want it to be able to play with more than one account? What seems to be the problem. It appears to them that you sold it to someone else.

And no, they aren't bound to machines. I installed my copy both at work and at home. I had no problems there.

Re:Steam blows.

[Dave2 Wickham]

Just a few.

Re:Steam blows.

[vertinox]

You could legally... Well at least morally download the no-cd crack.

Re:Steam blows.

[rishistar]

I bought Darwinia as a download.....I *WOULD NOT* have bought it if it had been a distibuted via Steam. Before I play Half Life 2 I end up disconnecting from the internet to play the game (which takes ages to boot up on my PC anyway) to stop it doing what it does. On the plus side Introversion may get more people buying the game (and kudos to them for writing something great and different), but the gaming community it seems only put up with Steam because Half-Life 2 was such a great game, but for an unknown indie game there's gonna have to be some *great* word of mouth stuff going on.

Re:Steam blows.

[steve's nose is blee]

You can just let your son log in to Steam on his machine using your Steam account. Hell, Steam will even let him download all the games you've registered without having the physical media present.

All Steam prohibits is logging two copies of the same game (ie. the cd-key) into Steam at the same time.

I've done this a number of times with Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Couter-Strike:Source and Half-Life2, playing at friends houses and such.

Don't get me wrong, Steam is a gigantic PITA, Valve seems to use it to beta test software updates on their installed userbase, but that's another rant.

Re:Steam blows.

[Fred Or Alive]

Steam games aren't bound to the machine, they're bound to the Steam account. You can use an account on any machine, assumming that only one machine is connected at a time - if you try to log into the same Steam account on two machines, the first gets kicked off. Steam games can only be used on one account though. (I also found info about moving retail games between Steam accounts, but it isn't that freindly from the looks of things)

Do you have any evidence that all the Steam account that Valve banned were for valid purchases, or for people trying to (innocently) register used CD Keys? I seem to remember that they did have a problem with people getting stuff for free from Steam, and they got kicked off, but I haven't heard of people getting kicked off otherwise. (Why do people making such fairly inflamatory statements on Slashdot never provide a source? It would really help their case if they provided some sort of source...)

Anyway, I am rather unwilling to pay for big purchases through these DRM systems I suppose. I do have Half Life 2 (bought the retail version for £13 in an offer on Amazon.co.uk), but otherwise I've only bought a few single songs from iTunes, if I buy an album or something, I'd prefer to have the real CD.

(I already have Darwinia anyway, I don't need to worry about buying it through Steam anyway).

Re:Steam blows.

[j-turkey]

With Half Life 2, if I put the CD into my machine, it is "bound" to that machine. If my son then tries to put it into his machine and activate it, it will terminate my original account's access to the game and *not* grant the other machine access either. Valve has been bragging up how they have disabled 30,000 steam accounts. That's 30,000 *valid* purchases that were disabled because of potentially the situation described. Wow, sign me up for a reaming up the ... well you get the point.

I got HL2 for free with a graphics card purchase. I downloaded the game via Steam, and remained skeptical throughout the process. To my surprise, it worked very well. When I bought a new computer, I was able to install Steam on the new machine, sign into the original account, and move the game content over my local network. It worked fine, no problems.

As far as the 30,000 users disabled...your assumption that every account that Valve disabled was a legitimately purchased copy is quite a stretch. In fact, I'd say that the chances are greater that the people who didn't call in to get their account fixed were likely not legitimate users. I know that if my account were disabled, I would simply contact Valve and ask them to fix it. If they asked why I was installing it on two computers, I'd explain why, and suggest that they fix their system to allow for this.

Copy protection for games is a fact. There is no getting around it. Nobody likes it. Entering serial numbers for games is stupid, and treats customers like theives. Further, as a paying customer, I'm paying for the cost of their copy protection model. Very lame. However, this is how the industry works, and consumers have made it clear that they don't really care (with their dollars). I like my games more than my principle that serial numbers and copy protection are lame, so I put up with it.

The traditional retail distribution model leaves something to be desired. The transition to a download-based model seems like a foregone conclusion. However, it makes sense to me that developers still want some assurances that their new distribution model won't be a piracy free-for-all, and Steam actually does seem pretty good at prevent casual piracy. As a consumer, I like Steam because I don't have to spend extra money on a paper box for a game, and don't have to deal with serial numbers. I have an account, and that tracks what I own. Do you have a better suggestion for how developers can protect their content using this new distribution model, or is this just about a desire for free games?

Re:Steam blows.

[brkello]

I used Steam to get HL2. Had no problems. A lot of people use it and find it a great way to get their games without heading to the store. You make up some scenario that might be likely to you. Well, it isn't to me. I have never been remotely terminated. It's an easy way to get a game. The reality is that DRM prevents a certain amount of pirating. If they just let you download it without any restrictions, no one would buy the game, they would just get it from P2P or some site that sticks it up. Sure, there are cracks for it and people who really want it free can get it. But to the average user that is beyond their capability to figure out and they just buy the game.

You come on here spouting off on how terrible DRM is but you offer no solutions. Yeah, it's popular to cry about DRM on here and you will surely get modded up, but your post is worthless. Companies have to do something if they are going to allow you to download their software off the net or they will not make a profit. Steam is extremely user friendly and a great way to purchase a game. If you want to download games in the future, get used to this model. It's not going to get much easier than this. Boycott all the games that you want to that do this. It will have much less of an effect than if they let you download DRM free. Bah, "30,000 *valid* purchases" my ass. I bet you that a large large percentage of those were attempts to illegally use the software. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Re:Steam blows.

[Sparr0]

Dont post here, Contact Introversion!

Re:Steam blows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Valve has been bragging up how they have disabled 30,000 steam accounts. That's 30,000 *valid* purchases that were disabled because of potentially the situation described. Wow, sign me up for a reaming up the ... well you get the point.

You're a fucking moron. Those were accounts that were caught cheating. If you try logging in on two machines at once, then you'll just get disconnected on the first one.

Bring an informed argument to the table, next time, chum.

Re:Steam blows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, such an ... informed opinion... Ohwait, no, it isn't : Just a troll.

For one, you can burn the images to CD/DVD, and you can play, with the account you created, on ANY computer.

But hey, you like to troll uh.

Re:Steam blows.

[Godeke]

Actually, *I* haven't had this problem. I refused to purchase anything based on Steam from other reports of such problems. I *have* been burned by reinstalls back in the day with RealGames (now RealArcade or whatever) and Steam is just the same DRM in a different dress.

Re:Steam blows.

[Godeke]

Yep, copy protection of games is a fact. I have been burned by CDs that refuse to operate in my "oh so high tech" DVD/CD-RW combo drive. I have been burned by downloadable DRM enabled files (RealGames). I have been burned by activation keys and "MIA" activation servers.

I don't have any problem with someone protecting their property. As a developer, I can assure you I strongly oppose piracy. But this is the opposite extreme: the Real people accused me of attempting to pirate games on the phone when I tried to get my account reactivated. That has left a bitter taste in my mouth for a *long* time that I don't see that going away.

The long and short of it is this: Steam is a subscription that can be revoked at Valves whim and I refuse to purchase anything on that model. Steam runs as background process that is unnecessary to the game proper, and I refuse to put "nanny" software on my machines.

At the end of the day, I *am* willing to purchase the XBox version, despite inferior graphics and controls. That is because it avoids the risk of disabiling my main computer's primary purpose (work, which some copy protection schemes hamper because they kill the Microsoft Virutal CD tool... a tool that can't even *read* encrypted ISO data...) and it is a CD that I can slap into a device and it "just works". And when I'm done playing the game, other members of my family aren't banned from enjoying the game as well.

As far as attribution, I figure in the era of google people can type "30000 accounts disabled" fairly easily. Valve claims they were "illegally gain access to Valve games without a valid purchase". Of course, Real probably counts my blown away hard drive and subsequent request for reactivation as the same.

Re:Steam blows.

[GeckoX]

Actually, it isn't.

Actually, you're wrong.

Actually, you're even stating you don't know what you're talking about, sheesh!

Re:Steam blows.

[SScorpio]

Then you don't really now what your talking about. I successfully ran my copy of Half-Life 2 on to seperate machines with no problem. As for issues with reinstalls, what issues? Just download steam and you can download the games back on to your machine with no issue, or you could just backup the game files so you don't have to redownload everything.

With Steam the games you can access are limited to your account. Did you buy Darwina and you want to show it off to your friend? Just goto his house, fire up Steam and login with your account. You can download the game and play.

Yes there has been the rare occasion where Steam's login server has gone down and you can't play the games, but the times that has happened can be counted on 1 hand, and I personally never tried playing on one of those days. And for the record I preloaded Half-Life 2 through Steam, and purchased it through Steam. The day it came out I unlocked the game and played.

You should try Steam before you badmouth it. Since you own Half-Life 1, just download the Steam client and input your CD key. You'll be able to download HL to any computer you access. You'll also get access to Counter Strike 1.6, Opposing Force, and Blue Shift. Learn what your complaing about before you start complaining. The only real issue I have with Steam is that you can't transfer access to games to different accounts. This prevents you selling your old copy of the game, but then again I still have every game I ever purchased...

Re:Steam blows.

[Godeke]

I find it interesting that you simultaneously say: "Sure, there are cracks for it and people who really want it free can get it." and "Companies have to do something if they are going to allow you to download their software off the net or they will not make a profit." Valve *failed* to prevent those who want it for free from getting it for free. Meanwhile, quite a few companies I have purchased from seem to be selling just fine downloadable games *without* DRM.

At the end of the day, those who a weasels and want free, pirated *anything* get it for free, DRM or not. And those who want to support a publisher buy the game. Yes, there is a middle ground of "Joe Consumers" who will be thwarted by simple DRM, but if the idiots I have seen with illegal copies of things can get them, I assure you it is a vanishingly small number. Steam and the DRM that goes with it are *not* the only successful online distribution model. Having purchased quite a bit from Stardock (GalCiv rocks) I can assure you that the non DRM model works.

Re:Steam blows.

[Ahnteis]

Steam does not bind anything to the machine. It binds to the account.

I routinely play my steam games on 3 different computers without problem. Just have to login when I want to play.

By contrast, I've had many legitimately purchased games refuse to run due to the copy "protection" schemes that are now included. If I'm going to be stuck with some sort of "protection" scheme, I'd rather it be one that:
-doesn't require me to swap CDs in and out
-allows me to install on any machine with net access that I happen to be at (even if I didn't bring the CD)

Re:Steam blows.

[TrickFred]

You could always visit their website:

http://darwinia.co.uk/exposure/index.html

Plenty of reviews linked from there.

Re:Steam blows.

[Godeke]

Maybe I bought into the naysayers because of my prior bad experience with Real and the disabling of my games because I had to replace a hard drive. Or maybe because activation servers no longer exist for some of my older "phone home" games. However, I *have* been burned by physical protections as well. My question is: what assurance does the Steam EULA give that you won't have your games access yanked without warning. Since two companies have done so in the past (once because of the reinstall and once because they went out of business) to me, that's where my principal beef lies.

Re:Steam blows.

[HD Webdev]

With Half Life 2, if I put the CD into my machine, it is "bound" to that machine. If my son then tries to put it into his machine and activate it, it will terminate my original account's access to the game and *not* grant the other machine access either. Valve has been bragging up how they have disabled 30,000 steam accounts. That's 30,000 *valid* purchases that were disabled because of potentially the situation described. Wow, sign me up for a reaming up the ... well you get the point.

Having online cheating software aimed at Valve games will do that sort of thing. The CD is NOT bound to the machine whatsoever. The CD's are not unique, the serial numbers are the unique part and are attached to a specific account of your choice.

When I installed Half-Life2 on a new PC, not only did it install it, it recognized that from serveral PC's ago that I also owned Half-life1, Opposing Forces, Team Fortress, Counter-Strike, Condidtion Zero, Day Of Defeat, Blue Shift, and a bunch of other mods/games and . Don't take my word for it, check out the steampowered.com forums and see that the other ~250,000 forum members are aware of this.

Since that time, I've installed those games & mods on 5 seperate computers without being asked any information besides my account name/passphrase. I have NEVER been asked for a CD. All that they want to know is my account name and password and Steam commences to install any or all of those games that I've owned over the last ~7 years. Accounts that are disable are NOT because of being installed on multiple machines (that's against the one of the main points of Steam), or for running Half-Life2 at the same time on seperate machines. They are disabled because of non-purchased copies being installed or Valve game cheating software running in memory. In that case, online play on secure servers is disabled, not single player or playing on servers that don't care about cheating.

Steam authenticates that you are a valid customer and tracks which games you own so that you can play your games at any place or time where you have access to a computer that has high enough specificiations and an initial network connected to download all of those games.

Re:Steam blows.

[Godeke]

So you are confident that Valve can't take their ball and go home? I purchased games from a now defunct company which took their activation servers with them and I'm incredibly skeptical of any scheme that requires someone on the other end to "agree" to my use of software.

Since you are correcting my understanding: if Valve decides to stop providing activation servers, how do you play the Half Life 2 game you purchased? My understanding is that the bits on the disk are insufficient to actually run the game.

Re:Steam blows.

[Kazzahdrane]

Wow well done for getting on the "omg Steam suxx0rs" bandwagon. My personal feelings aside, you're post is filled with bullshit. Steam games are 100000% NOT "locked" to a specific PC. If they were, what would happen when you had to format or your PC was stolen? Hell, your whole house can burn down and as long as you remember your account name and password you can still play your games. Just install Steam on your son's PC and have him log in with your account details. In fact, as long as you just want to play the games single player, you can tell Steam to "Log on in Offline Mode" and it won't connect to the network. Then you can still load your games on your PC while your son plays them on his. Like I said this only works for offline and you'll need to change the settings whenever you want to update your games but that's not often anymore for Half-Life 2. And as others have pointed out (thankfully), the 30k account bannings earlier this year were said to all be accounts that had been signed up with the same Half-Life 2 cd-keys (or all using the hacked version of Steam, I'm not certain). What they were NOT however was people trying to play their games on another PC. Point of fact, when my flatmate bought HL2 I just sent him the files over our LAN and he paid for his Steam account to have access to the game. Steam saw the HL2 files on his PC and loaded up fine. That's a little offtopic but it might save you the time of an install/downloading the files from Steam if your son re-installs the game. Valve have said time and time again that if they shut down the Steam servers they will do something for customers so they can keep playing their games, my guess would be a new version of Steam that doesn't connect to the network.

Re:Steam blows.

[Ford Prefect]

Since you are correcting my understanding: if Valve decides to stop providing activation servers, how do you play the Half Life 2 game you purchased? My understanding is that the bits on the disk are insufficient to actually run the game. ... Then, I'll just download a sodding cracked version.

Re:Steam blows.

[Godeke]

The last crack program I dealt with was back on the Amiga and I was a teen. I don't see cracked versions as a solution (despite the fact a few of my games would be usable again with a NOCD crack...). It does bring up the point of "what does the DRM actually accomplish" though.

On the other hand, it is clear I screwed up in the original post and for the first time ever I wish /. had an edit button.

Re:Steam blows.

[HD Webdev]

Since you are correcting my understanding: if Valve decides to stop providing activation servers, how do you play the Half Life 2 game you purchased? My understanding is that the bits on the disk are insufficient to actually run the game.

Someone always has to pop up with that scenario. There are many ways around that problem. First, there's the fact that it's easy to create a fake activiation server, even locally. Second, EA games would have to pull the product from the shelves or face a Class Action Lawsuit. Third, Bittorrent & friends can (and already do) provide fully activated copies that will connect to servers that don't query the (non-existent) Steam authenticated servers and allow the online folks to play.

Where there's a game, there's hundreds of unpaid folks who will make sure that a corporation cannot stop players from using it.

Re:Steam blows.

[VarsityUK]

"With Half Life 2, if I put the CD into my machine, it is "bound" to that machine. If my son then tries to put it into his machine and activate it, it will terminate my original account's access to the game and *not* grant the other machine access either. Valve has been bragging up how they have disabled 30,000 steam accounts. That's 30,000 *valid* purchases that were disabled because of potentially the situation described. Wow, sign me up for a reaming up the ... well you get the point."

I think you might have just about got the message about how stupid your 'locking to a PC' idea is. You are so hopelessely wrong it's a miracle you even tried! I haven't seen anyone explain how not one disabled account was legitimate yet, though. The exploit they were closed for consisted of one, specific CD Key that was only used by those trying to get a copy for free, and the unplugging your net connection at the correct moment. It's a simple case of data matching.

All I can hope for is that the wave of public stupidity over Steam washes away. It's certainly diminished in recent months but as we can see...it isn't gone yet.

Re:Steam blows.

[Ahnteis]

None. If Valve goes under, you go download the hacked version (which has I believe been upheld in court in those circumstances) so that you can play the version you bought.

On the other hand, what are you going to do 5 years from now when the new hardware on your computer won't play nice with the outdated copy "protection"?

I'm more willing to trust something that can be updated.

Re:Steam blows.

[Guspaz]

If they shut down the authentication servers (unlikely to happen any time soon), then fake activation servers won't really be a crack, they'll just be an aftermarket patch to allow gameplay to an old defunct game. This really isn't different than those people producing things like XP hacks for old unsupported Win98 games, or the like.

There is, of course, the ability to play the game without the activation servers at all; if STEAM can't connect, it prompts you to start up in offline mode (assuming you've started up at least once). So if one day they suddenly decide to shut down the activation servers, you can continue to play the game.

You can even continue to take advantage of the multiplayer component. While the master server would be down, that is no different from other games whose master server is down. Counter-Strike: Source can still connect to remote servers in offline mode. Certainly with LAN servers this works fine. I'm not sure how the server authentication thing would work out.

I don't think of STEAM as DRM. I think of it as a content distribution system. One that works very well, and is actually works better than games that ship on CD. I don't ever need to put the CD in the drive, I don't have to worry about no-CD cracks to play a game I own, and I don't have to worry about a game refusing to launch because I've got Daemon Tools running. I also don't have to worry about the game doing evil things because I have Daemon Tools running.

To a small company trying to sell a low budget game like Darwinia, STEAM must surely look tempting. A large marketplace with little competition, low publishing costs, and high profit margins. Darwinia isn't the first non-valve-related game to be published via STEAM either. That honour goes to Rag Doll Kung Fu.

Re:Steam blows.

[Collision891]

If Valve decides to stop providing activation servers, how do you play the Half Life 2 game you purchased? My understanding is that the bits on the disk are insufficient to actually run the game. I believe Valve has stated (due to many worrying about the issue) that if Valve were to become a defunct company like the one you mentioned, that they would release a patch or something similar, allowing it to be run without the authentication servers. I could be wrong about this, but i think it is in an FAQ somewhere.

Re:Steam blows.

[KDR_11k]

If they just let you download it without any restrictions, no one would buy the game, they would just get it from P2P or some site that sticks it up.

So what. So it takes maybe a day or two longer for the warez release to come out. Those who don't know how to go onto a warez site or grab it off P2P obviously wouldn't be able to even without copy protection.

And to me as the end user it does not fucking matter what they hope to accomplish with their DRM, all that matters is what it means to ME. And I've learned that those who simply warez the game have a much easier time with getting it to work than stupid old me who buys every game in a store in an age where people look at you funny when you tell them you pay for games.

By the way, to me it's worthless that I could theoretically download the game while paying for it with a credit card. I have no credit card and in my experience it's both faster and cheaper to just grab a physical copy and not bothering with all that download crap. Plus physical copies tend to hit the bargain bin sooner or later, price drops on downloads seem much rarer.

Re:Steam blows.

[KDR_11k]

Whoa, cheating, what a great reason to make someone's 50$ (and probably more since there can be more than one game tied to an account) investment useless. What's next, trashing your car when you're caught speeding?

Re:Steam blows.

[OMGtehRed]

Actually it's not bound to a single machine. You can play it on multiple machines, just not at the same time. You loose! Good day sir!

Re:Steam blows.

[ColdSam]

Is it really that big a deal if you can't play your $40 game anymore?

It is an unlikely event that the company does go under (or for some other reason decides to disable activation). By that time the game will most likely have been out for several years and most players who bought the game will play it rarely if ever and they most certainly would have recouped their $40 investment.

If the game is new and worth playing then almost certainly someone else will have bought the rights to it and will continue to sell and support it.

How much extra would you pay for a game to provide insurance that you could authorize it and continue to play it for say 3 years after the purchase? That wouldn't be worth even a quarter to me. Now how much would you pay to guarantee that you'd still be able to play the game even if the original media were lost or misplaced?

This seems extremely low on the list of things to worry about when buying a game. Being concerned about an online game going under after you've invested hundreds of hours building your character is quite reasonable, however.

Re:Steam blows.

[Chyeld]

That's your choice, and you are welcome to continue to live in the 1990's for as long as you can. However given that every argueement other than the "Valve can take their ball and go home" one has been shot down, the only real reason you could have is that you just don't want to buy games online.

Do you know what would happen if Valve suddenly just upped and turned everyone off? The next day they'd be buried under class action suits and the week later they'd have turned the servers back on and potentially permentantly unlocked the software.

Do you know what would happen if Valve suddenly just fell off the surface of the Earth? The next day people would have posted the work arounds to setting up your clients to work permentantly without the servers.

And you know what, neither of those things are ever going to happen. So worrying about them is about as productive as wondering what will become of the world when Bill Gates wakes up and realizes that the true path to happiness and heaven is in humility and a life of public service.

Welcome to 2005. Orwell was wrong.

Re:Steam blows.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no sympathy for cheats. They deserve it.

Cheaters are such disrespectful people that they don't consider the rest of the people playing fairly on the servers.

Then, when they do get banned, they whinge and complain and try to get their money back. For god's sake, they were given warning that they would be banned if they were caught!

Unlike competitive games, when you drive at speed, you don't force everyone around you to slow down to a crawl. If it were the case in real life, then yes, the authorities would take away your driving rights and your car!

Re:Steam blows.

[couch_potato]

With Half Life 2, if I put the CD into my machine, it is "bound" to that machine. If my son then tries to put it into his machine and activate it, it will terminate my original account's access to the game and *not* grant the other machine access either.

That's amazing! I wonder how come my friend's copy of HL2 works on my machine, then. I can play CS and everything. I guess he got the HL2 CD that doesn't get magically "bound" to a machine upon being placed in the CD tray.

Re:Steam blows.

[jimi the hippie]

HL2 is not bound to a machine. It is bound to a Steam Login that can be used on ANY machine connected to the internet.

Re:Steam blows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac OS X distributor is Ambrosia software.

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/darwinia/

Diehard community with interesting chat and they also made EV and Barrck, two favorite time wasters of lore.

Re:Steam blows.

[willfe]

That's your choice, and you are welcome to continue to live in the 1990's for as long as you can. However given that every argueement other than the "Valve can take their ball and go home" one has been shot down, the only real reason you could have is that you just don't want to buy games online.

Meh. "Valve can take their ball and go home" hasn't been shot down; it's been (and is being) practiced by lots of folks. The "average" gamer will take the spoonful they're handed; people drove Britney Spears, the Spice Girls, and N-Sync to the top of the charts because that's what they were forcefed. Good sheeple :)

I have plenty of reason not to choose Steam for my games. Don't want their stuff snooping around on my system. Don't want their permission to play a game I've paid for.

It ain't "1990's." It's called "consumer choice." No subscriber-model apps for me, thanks. I like to own what I buy.

Do you know what would happen if Valve suddenly just upped and turned everyone off? The next day they'd be buried under class action suits and the week later they'd have turned the servers back on and potentially permentantly unlocked the software.

Heh! Wrong. First, their license agreement protects them from harm anyway -- they really can just shut you (and anyone else they want) off for any reason they choose. Read it again until you understand this. Second, you don't get buried under class action suits -- the whole point of a class action is to take a mountain of lawsuits (you do get buried under those) and combine the complainants into one big action. Third, such action would take years to resolve, not a week. They ain't gonna unlock all the software permanently because a lawsuit gets filed if they actually do shut things down overnight.

Do you know what would happen if Valve suddenly just fell off the surface of the Earth? The next day people would have posted the work arounds to setting up your clients to work permentantly without the servers.

...and they'd be criminally liable for violation of the DMCA. Sigh. Oh, and those workarounds already exist today anyway.

And you know what, neither of those things are ever going to happen. So worrying about them is about as productive as wondering what will become of the world when Bill Gates wakes up and realizes that the true path to happiness and heaven is in humility and a life of public service.

*chortle* Okay, that was funny. Still, they very well could happen. Companies are motivated by profit. The moment Steam becomes unprofitable and its products stop being profitable, they will vanish in lieu of something that is profitable. Corporate America's history is liberally peppered with instances of the consumer getting fucked when a company decided it wasn't profitable to keep a product alive anymore.

Welcome to 2005. Orwell was wrong.

Nah, he was just a few years off. Looks like we know which side you'll be on when the day finally comes, though...

Re:Steam blows.

[KDR_11k]

I think that they should only be excluded from online play. Banning them from their own offline games borders on self-justice.

Re:Steam blows.

[mink]

I had no idea sodding was still an active group in the scene. ;-)

Re:Steam blows.

[Anonymous Coward]

He said: "However given that every argueement[sic] other than the "Valve can take their ball and go home" one has been shot down"

You said "Meh. "Valve can take their ball and go home" hasn't been shot down"

Isn't it nice when people can agree?

I wish I could play it.

[Schezar]

This would be fantastic. Steam is an excellent platform, and I used to love playing Natural Selection and Counterstrike on it, not to mention Half Life 2 et all. I would probably have picked Darwinia up in a second. Well, except...

Steam doesn't support Linux.

I love these games, and I love Steam, but I don't even own Windows. There is no way for me to play them. Wine alone fails miserably. Cedega works somewhat, but seems to break anytime Steam updates, not to mention the fact that it isn't free.

I really wanted Half Life 2. I was looking forward to Civ IV. I even wanted to play Pirates! But I'm done with half-assed solutions like Wine. If developers can't be bothered to at least offer token support to Linux, I certainly can't be bothered to give them my money.

Re:I wish I could play it.

[Nuskrad]

There's a native Linux version of Darwinia, availiable directly from Introversion. The Steam deal only covers online distribution of the Windows version of Darwinia, IV are still handling retail boxes of Windows and Linux versions, and the Mac version is availiable from Ambrosia software. Here, have a demo

Re:I wish I could play it.

[Jerf]

So, buy it directly. From that page:

• You are buying a CD with Linux and Windows that will be sent via the post.
• Your purchase entitles you to instantly download the LINUX version ONLY.

Re:I wish I could play it.

[VarsityUK]

Steam runs under Cedega, and the existing Linux client looks like it might be extended from account handling to the full thing as a part of Steam 3.0. You could also download through Steam then apply the latest Linux patch...perhaps. ;-)

Re:I wish I could play it.

[TJ_Phazerhacki]

Will be flamed or trolled for this... but...

This same thing comes up every time a game that only runs on one platform gets discussed. And guess what?

Mario Kart Ds dosent run on my xbox. I certainly can't play GT4 on my 'Cube. And guess what? I can't play CStrike Source on my PSP.

Linux is an operating system alternative - Valve is making plenty appealing to it's PC userbase, enough so that I don't believe it is even considering a port of steam to linux.

You want to play Half Life 2? Get a Windows box - says right there on the system requirements. You have to conform to their standards if you want to play the game; they crertainly aren't going to conform to yours.

Last I checked, you can spend your money as you see fit. But so can they.

If binding transferable is there a complaint?

[AHumbleOpinion]

If that binding was transferable, when binding it to you son's computer only your machine was deauthorized, would that have been acceptable? In short to allow only one machine to be activated with a particular key. Now if that key is moving between many machines I could see it being shut down automatically as a stolen/posted key but setting the threshold at a second machine seems too aggressive.

I'm curious, is there any way to tell Steam that an activation key was not stolen, to explain what happened and to have the key made valid once again?

Re:If binding transferable is there a complaint?

[Godeke]

I have no problems with a transferable key. I to have a problem with "binding" to a machine, having been burned in the past by reinstalls on the same hardware causing loss of access to games. Fortunately, stupid and forgettible games that didn't cost much, but being burned makes me dislike the process of binding quite a bit.

Re:If binding transferable is there a complaint?

[KDR_11k]

You can pay Valve ten bucks to unregister the key so you can sell your copy. Fucking abusive bastards are probably attempting to kill off the used game market.

Re:If binding transferable is there a complaint?

[Ford Prefect]

I have no problems with a transferable key. I to have a problem with "binding" to a machine, having been burned in the past by reinstalls on the same hardware causing loss of access to games.

Purchases of games on (and for) Steam aren't bound to any particular machine, just to a particular Steam user account. As a wild example, my PC could be destroyed in a nuclear explosion, taking every last molecule and data bit with it, and so long as I can remember my email address and Steam password (and possibly not even that) I can download the Steam client on another machine and get access to all the games I've bought.

It's absolutely not a perfect system (Valve seem to have some kind of a vendetta against dial-up users for a start) but the roaming-account system is one of the more impressive aspects of it.

A brilliant bonus for Introversion will be the huge amount of publicity. My very own MINERVA mod is in Steam's games listings, and so far it's chewed its way through over 100,000 downloads and about 1.5TB of bandwidth. I won't be purchasing Darwinia through Steam, sadly - I've got my very own, lurid-green boxed copy as purchased just days after release. It's a great game, and well worth it. I hope they get the success they deserve...

Re:If binding transferable is there a complaint?

[rvw14]

I am one of those 100,000 downloads, great job on that level! Quite enjoyable.

Re:If binding transferable is there a complaint?

[Dave2 Wickham]

Minor correction there; the technical name for the colour of the Darwinia box is "GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN". Hope this helps.

*ahem*

(Yes, I know it's like yelling, Mr./Mrs. Lameness Filter. That's the whole point.)

I'm still not excited about it

[alta]

Yeah, I bought it... nice idea. It was a great game while it lasted... but there lies the probelm. It's WAY to short. Maybe 10 hours of gameplay. The mod scene is non-existant, there are maybe a dozen incomplete mods. When it first came out it was riddled with bugs. I especially like the one where if you leave a certain amount of bugs alive on one level, (even though it tells you you're done) and then get to the last level, the game will crash without showing the end scene. Apparently you can't load mods until you've finished the game... It also won't let you reset the level to try again..... There was no fix, just play the entire game again, and make sure you don't trigger the bug this time.

I think THAT'S why no one is buying the game.

Re:I'm still not excited about it

[Aranth Brainfire]

"There was no fix, just play the entire game again"

Correction- there was no fix if you didn't go online and look, or poke around in the directory. Simply deleting the save file for that level would fix it.

Not that that's much better, but still.

Re:I'm still not excited about it

[Nuskrad]

One of the reasons the Steam deal was made was to expose the game to a large community of modders, so hopefully we'll be seeing lots of new content for the game.

Online distribution is the way of the future

[csbrooks]

The whole idea with Steam, and online distribution in general, is to put control back in the hands of developers, and take it away from distributors. Why should Best Buy or WalMart get to decide what games we can buy?

Cut out the middleman, and let the market choose.

Re:Online distribution is the way of the future

[|/|/|||]

Cutting out the middleman is good, but steam also takes control out of the hands of the customers (us). I'm not buying a game that requires a phone home to install, and that forces software updates. *I'll* decide what patches I want to run with, thank you very much. I would also prefer not to run a simulated steam server or crack my game so I can install it when Valve's server is down.

Do what you want, but I wrote introversion and told them straight up that I'll be buying Darwinia before it goes to steam exclusively (dec 14) but that they're losing me as a potential customer in the future.

Re:Online distribution is the way of the future

[Xarius]

Steam is a middle man.

Re:Online distribution is the way of the future

[Guspaz]

Epic (Unreal) doesn't agree with you. They think that as games become larger, online distribution just won't work.

As an example, they are saying next-gen games (UT2007) are going to be 20 to 30 gigs. Obviously you can't distribute that on CDs, as that'd be 45 CDs. So they're moving from multiple CDs with optional single DVD to multiple DVDs with optional single HDDVD/BD.

30GB is currently too much to push out over online distribution. While a 1mbit broadband user can download HL2 (~5GB?) in about 12 hours, UT2007 would take them about three days. That is starting to get pretty high, and preloading can only go so far.

Faster internet connections solve the problem yes, but in many places game data counts are going up much faster than internet connections.

I'm not saying that 30GB can't be done at all over the net. Bell Sympatico's 6mbit DSL would be able to handle the download in about the same amount of time a 1mbit user would download HL2. But really, you couldn't ship UT2007 over the net any more than you could ship it on CD.

Re:Online distribution is the way of the future

[the phantom]

Darwinia will not be going to Steam exclusively. The only thing that is going to Steam is the Windows download. You can still order Darwinia from Introversion and get physical media, and the Linux and Mac versions will still be downloadable.

xander

Re:Online distribution is the way of the future

[drsquare]

We don't all have broadband you know.

And even people who have it don't want to download 5GB over it. It could take hours and hours on low-end broadband lines, and a lot of services are capped.

Re:Online distribution is the way of the future

[danila]

Faster internet connections solve the problem yes, but in many places game data counts are going up much faster than internet connections.

Game data size is going up almost precisely at the speed at which disk capacity goes up. :) With the holographic disks already available the size will continue to increase fast. All this doesn't mean Steam will fail, it just means online distribution is not read to overtake physical media distribution yet.

Re:Online distribution is the way of the future

[Guspaz]

But disk capacity doesn't matter. If you want to push out a 30GB game over STEAM instead of via CD, then you're going to have to have internet connections that are five to ten times as fast. And that is not going to happen in a year or two.

um...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no problems running both HL2 and CS:S on multiple computers on my local network using the same steam login. In fact, I've never heard of anyone having a problem with this. Everyone complains about all these problems with Steam when in fact they dont even exist. Oh well, at least people find those ignorant posts "interesting".

When worse comes to worse you can always play HL2 on multiple computers in "offline mode":

http://support.steampowered.com/cgi-bin/steampower ed.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=213&p_creat ed=1094245645&p_sid=MA2oEYQh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoP SZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0yNzM mcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3BhZ2U9M Q

I've been using steam for 3 years or so, and yes, it did suck back in the day. It's working fine now so everyone can stop that annoying, ignorant whining.

Re:um...

[Anonymous Coward]

All men are socrates

Re:um...

[HD Webdev]

I have no problems running both HL2 and CS:S on multiple computers on my local network using the same steam login. In fact, I've never heard of anyone having a problem with this. Everyone complains about all these problems with Steam when in fact they dont even exist. Oh well, at least people find those ignorant posts "interesting".

That non-problem does actually exist, rarely. But then again, it's those who are pirating the software (or let someone use the account who then cheats) that see that issue.

Youve got it wrong

[Hard_Rock_2]

I hate steam as well, but your information is highly misleading.

There is no such thing as cd keys being bound to machine, they are bound to a specific account. So all your son would need to do to play the game on his computer would be to install steam and log in under your account information.

This means that you can log onto a friends computer, public computer and play steam from your account there no problem.(in fact over here at uni i have a few accounts so i log in under my friends comps so we can play online together)

The catch is only one account may be played at one time, if you are logged on your computer and your son logs on his computer you will get logged out. None of this banning bullshit your talking about. The banning was valve leaked a cdkey and around 30 000 people used this one key, if your key is already in use they will tell you it is in use, not ban you.

Steam is definetely not my preffered method of distribution (ut2k4 would be) but its far better then you portray it to be.

Re:Youve got it wrong

[fistfullast33l]

I use Steam on my laptop and my Desktop with no problems. It lets me install any game I own on either machine. In most cases I almost prefer it because I can just sit back and let it download rather than doing the 65-CD swap trot. The DRM software that I really am opposed to is stuff like Starforce which apparently modifies the way your DVD or CD drive reads discs. I think that that is just as bad as what Sony has dreamed up and it gets almost no press whatsoever. I'm holding off buying X3:Reunion because of it.

Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Those bugs were not only fixed in the first patch, but if you had actually bothered to visit the support forums, send an email to the team or even drop by the IRC channel you could have had it manually fixed.

And as for the mod scene: The Next Game and Stellar Matter should provide you with all the mods you want, and the mod scene continues on IV's mod boards.

So much for your complaints.

Only Steam?

[Xarius]

Hopefully they are not going to use Steam to the exclusion of all other distribution methods, I recently purchased physical copies of Darwinia which are very professional for an indie developer.

If Steam is the only method, then that severely limits the options for Linux users too, which are more likely to play this game because it has a native port and it's on the disc.

Re:Only Steam?

[Ford Prefect]

To summarise the distribution methods which will be available once the Steam version is up and running:

Windows: you can purchase a boxed version which will be sent to you by post at the Introversion online store; alternatively you will be able to buy a download-only version over Steam.

Linux (x86): you can purchase the boxed version (which includes an HTTP download version), again at the Introversion online store. No change here.

Mac: you can download a limited version and purchase a license key at Ambrosia Software's online store. It's effectively the shareware distribution model here - there's no separate demo as far as I'm aware. No change here either.

AmigaOS, CP/M, Sinclair Spectrum: it would appear these luddites will have to get stuffed. Sorry. No change here!

Re:Only Steam?

[TrickFred]

Thay are not. Linux downloads and Linux/Win32 boxed versions will still be available from their site, http://darwinia.co.uk/. They are just using Steam to get the Win32 version of the game more exposure.

Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[Godeke]

My original post said that you can't transfer Steam games to another user. Apparently I was boneheaded to believe things I read on the Internet (and /. especially). In the case of my son, as long as my son and I never want to play Steam based games at the same time I *could* allow him to play with the same physical CD (which is bound to a Steam account). Of course, that brings up the interesting point that if Steam becomes popular enough that all my games are steam based then the decision point hinges on being able to transfer purchases to another account (as it appears that all Steam based games block all simultaneous use of the account). So Darwinia would block my son from playing Half Life at the same time, assuming that I only have one steam account. If I have two accounts, it would *appear* that I would have to make two purchases. Which seems awful similar to my original complaint, just a different reason for having to purchase a game twice.

I still stand behind the fact that allowing a company to hold your bits hostage behind activation servers is a guaranteed way to come back to a game you were playing a while back and finding yourself locked out. But it has already been discussed in prior discussions that I'm an idiot because I don't play games the week they are released and finish them in the first month of ownership.

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[VarsityUK]

The only restriction is that you can't play on more than one online server at a time with the same account. That's it. You don't even need the CD any more, the CD check was removed a few weeks after HL2 launched.

To be explicit: you can run as many singleplayer or LAN games as you like from one account at the same time, exactly as you describe.

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[Fred Or Alive]

Well, you're still a bit wrong, you don't need the original disc with Steam (according to the Steam support site Half-Life 2 at one point did need the disc in the play, but it got patched out). The only thing the DVD[1] disc of Half-Life 2 is good for is that you don't have to download the game over the Internet (the CD Key is the important bit really). You just need to be signed into your Steam account on the computer and you can play (assuming it's been installed, otherwise you'll be in for a wait while it downloads).

But you're right, you can't be playing two Steam games at the same time. I think Steam is based around the idea that one person has his account, and it's his only.

I should note the boxed CD version of Darwinia (at least the one that's been out in the UK for months) doesn't have any DRM that I'm aware of (at least I haven't noticed anything), nor is it bound to Steam, so if you really don't want to use Steam, get that one.

[1] I gather the US got a CD-ROM version, which must be rather impractical considering the size of the game...

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[VarsityUK]

"But you're right, you can't be playing two Steam games at the same time. I think Steam is based around the idea that one person has his account, and it's his only."

That doesn't apply to singleplayer. Think about it: all you would have to do to circumvent anything like that would be start in offline mode. :-)

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[Falconoffury]

It is possible that Darwinia will not require the user to be logged into Steam in order to play the game. While the game will be distributed by steam, it may not need steam running in order to work.

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[Ahnteis]

You want to play two copies of the game at once, you buy two copies.

That's the license for all software unless specifically granted otherwise.

Just because you've been able to cheat the system in the past doesn't mean it's your right.

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[Godeke]

Um, my point is that *I* want to play HL2 and my son wants to play Darwinia. Due to the requirements of Steam, that may not be possible. My further point is that if this becomes wildly popular, that situation (my son and I want to play games on the weekend at the same time, but different games) would be downright common. You are saying that because there are two of us in this house that play PC games I must buy two copies of every game? PC Gaming will die right there and then if that becomes the norm.

With CDs it is one player per game. Which is fair and reasonable.

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[Fred Or Alive]

How dare you suggest I'm anything other than 100% correct! I am a genius, and I'm never wrong! :-)

(Didn't really think it through I guess, not that I've any experience of using Steam on multiple machines or anything).

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[VarsityUK]

It is possible, didn't you read any of the other replies? It's not even the equivalent of one CD per player, it's one account per everybody you trust enough to give it to.

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[Godeke]

For some reason you have a score of zero and I missed your prior replies in the tree view. Now that I have read them, it appears possible. However, the guy assuming I wanted to play two copies of the same game and the same time remains wrong. Is it true that the requirement for doing this is to keep the machine "offline" during the game session?

I guess the key question is: what is Valve's understanding of an account. If the intent is one account per player, I don't see it as given that the current offline playability will remain as it is. My goal in life is not to deprive developers of income: far from it, I make my living off software and am sensitive to the needs for fair compensation.

On the other hand, I could easily see the method you propose (one account per everybody you trust enough) being highly *unfair* to Valve. In that scenario, I could set up an account and buy one of everything. As long as people with my account don't go online at the same time, they can all play single player? If anything, that seems to be going too far in the other direction.

My personal feelings are that if my son wants to play a game I purchase at a different time than I am using it; that is fair use of a purchased CD/DVD game. If my son wants to play at the same time (say, as we do in multiplayer Dungeon Siege), then we each needs a copy. Again, I don't have a problem with this, although I preferred the old Blizzard "spawned copy" model which allowed a LAN game with a single disk. I have purchased multiple copies of quite a few games for this exact purpose.

Now taking this to the realm of steam: I have no problem with allowing family members access to different games at the same time, or the same game at different times. This does nothing more than replicate what I would do with disks anyway. On the other hand, it sounds like it would be possible to sequentially download the account's "library" of games and everyone could play offline mode all of those games. That's pushing it if I simply kept it to my immediate family, but what exactly is keeping people from doing this for an entire dorm floor?

It would seem that such an excessive abuse would be easy to detect on Valve's side. What do the terms of use say about such a situation? If such an abuse were to happen multiple times, would that affect Valve's allowance of the offline mode?

As much as I hate shuffling disks in and out of the drives, it seems to me they are a very acceptable method of regulating use. Of course, this all is supposing that neither disks nor Steam has been cracked, and we all know that both have been. Which brings me to Stardock: they seem to sell a decent number of download units without involving DRM at all. Sometimes I wonder if all this complexity does any good.

Re:Well, it's clear I screwed up.

[VarsityUK]

"Is it true that the requirement for doing this is to keep the machine "offline" during the game session?"

You can have a connection to Steam itself, but not more than one internet game. It only works for single-player.

"As long as people with my account don't go online at the same time, they can all play single player? If anything, that seems to be going too far in the other direction."

The catch is that to play on an account you need full access to it, including the ability to change e-mail and password or have the account disabled or VAC banned (for cheating). It only takes one person to screw it up, which even you must admit is a brilliant way of sensibly limiting access (and avoiding the situation you describr) without bothering anybody. This also extends to offline mode, not least because you can't simply transfer an offline installation to another computer. The offline details would be invalidated.

I don't know what would happen in cases of abuse because I've never seen anyone talking about it happening. You technically aren't allowed to have more than copy running at a time (and technically must never give out your account details as you've stated) but Valve turn a blind eye to this unless there is definite fraud going on, for both practical and moral reasons. If the worse did happen, you'd probably be able to get Support to give your account back with sufficient proof of your innocence.

I can guarantee you that if Stardock were selling anything like Counter-Strike online with no DRM, they'd be out of buisiness like a shot. ;-) They only survive because of their smaller and more mature userbase.

Hope it all makes a bit more sense now. Steam might be DRM, but it's DRM used as a means to an end, and not an end in itself.

Still sold

[Luigi30]

Darwinia will STILL HAVE A STEAM-LESS VERSION. If you'd read the site you'd know that.

Mod +5 One True Way-Darwin Challenged, God Praised

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about time. The Charles Darwin theory espoused as fact has long held sway by those who simply do not tolerate the biblical account of creation. Therefore, Darwin provided them with the alternative which they have turned into a religious tenet.

Now the thinking population is getting its turn at putting in place a faith that was believed by centuries until "The Origin of the Species" replaced it.

According to the New York Times' Jodi Wilgoren, the Kansas State Board of Education has "voted 6-4 to adopt new science standards that are the most far-reaching in the nation in requiring that Darwin's theory of evolution be challenged in the classroom."

For too long a time the instructors particularly on secular campuses have forced a theory full of holes upon youth, teaching them that evolution is a proven fact. It is not. It is stated in textbooks that evolution is a proven fact. It is not. Yet the so-called unbelieving intelligentsia has held sway with this anti-God premise that has nothing but myths surrounding its every postulate.

It is imbecilic to conclude that homo sapiens came from a tiny cell, let alone conclude that it is scientifically proven that mortals derived from monkeys and so forth and so forth.
Continue reading this article below

What Darwinites have done all along is insert into science classes a legend. It is inserting into science classes a religion that is anti-
Judeo-Christian but in itself is a religious faith in Darwinism.
Therefore, for secularists to complain that believers are inserting into science classes a faith in God is to discount that Darwin disciples have long inserted into science classes a non-faith that is very much laced with a religious zeal of unbelief.

What must finally be settled upon is not merely an "intelligent design" quotient but the teaching that God is Creator. "Intelligent design" is but a hesitant, somewhat shy conviction. It is God who is Creator of all. Therefore, the final teaching must be that God as Creator brought all into being from nothing.

"The vote came six years after Kansas shocked the scientific and political world by stripping its curriculum standards of virtually any mention of evolution, a move reversed in 2001 after voters ousted several conservative members of the state Board of Education. A new conservative majority took hold in 2004 and promptly revived the highly personal debate over the teaching of evolution.

"John Calvert, a lawyer, who runs the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network, praised the board for 'taking a very courageous step' that would 'make science education interesting to students rather than boring.'"

Re:Mod +5 One True Way-Darwin Challenged, God Prai

[clragon]

umm... wrong topic? as for the article, im glad Darwania is using steam. i dont really like steam since they never bothered helping me when my cdkey got stolen, but still, Darwania is a game that deserves a bit more than what it got. steam would help it's sales and popularity.

What about uplink?

[Jestrzcap]

I'd buy uplink in a heartbeat if they made it available through steam. Not sure about Darwinia though....

Re:What about uplink?

[duffahtolla]

FYI, If you like uplink that much check out their Developer CD here

Will they have to...

[Anonymous Coward]

...rename it "Intellegent Designia" for sale in America?

Right, for the most part

[jgoemat]

As part of the launch and Steam's exclusivity, we will no longer be offering Darwinia as a download option from our site, although it will still be possible to purchase shipped boxed copies.

So they'll still ship you a boxed copy, but they won't let you buy it from their site anymore. Also for a month or so at least they won't have the demo available on their site. Since I will never get anything again that requires me to use Steam (dumb, dumb system, I bought HL2 without knowing it required their Steam client to run), I won't be able to get the demo. Pity, it looks interesting and I may have bought a copy. I rarely buy a game without trying the demo...