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Literature Teeters on the Edge of a 'Gr8 Fall'

aicrules writes "Yahoo news is reporting that the great works of literature often read and discussed by the brighter of our up-and-comers could be the latest victim of reaching the lowest common denominator at the potential expense of everyone. The article describes the efforts of Dot Mobile to make such literary masterpieces as Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet more accessible. From the article, 'We are confident that our version of 'text' books will genuinely help thousands of students remember key plots and quotes, and raise up educational standards rather than decrease levels of literacy,'"

29 of 459 comments (clear)

  1. Teeters on the edge? by BushCheney08 · · Score: 5, Funny

    And this mindlessness is exactly the sort of thing that will push it over...

    Here's a message for them: Lrn2RdFlBks. UGtMrFrmIt.

    --
    Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    1. Re:Teeters on the edge? by s20451 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Lrn2RdFlBks. UGtMrFrmIt

      "Learn to read, fullbacks"? I hardly think it's fair to blame college sports.

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
  2. Remember Hamlet in 15 minutes? by Kelson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People have been condensing things like this for humor for years. Ophelia's last line: "Glub!" And remember the story about consensing the Lord's Prayer into a text message? (I think it had lines like "God, UR GR8")

    So we take something that's been used for humor, and use it for Cliffs Notes instead. Big whoop. No one is going to think that the summaries are the original works. I mean, anyone who has taken a logic class has come up with "2B v ~2B"

    Although it does remind me of the time in high school when we were reading Romeo and Juliet aloud in class. I read Mercutio's "Queen Mab" speech, got through the whole thing, then looked at the footnotes, and had the reaction, "I said what?!?!?" (From then on, I read the footnotes with the text, not afterward.)

    1. Re:Remember Hamlet in 15 minutes? by bman08 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I first read MacBeth as a comic book. Then I saw the porno version. By the time I got around to the real play, I had a foundation to follow the non-x-rated action.

    2. Re:Remember Hamlet in 15 minutes? by LordSnooty · · Score: 5, Funny
      Surely it's
      if ( $question = ( 2B || !(2B) ) ) {
      if ($mind[SlingsArrows] > $mind[TakeArms]) {
      die()
      sleep()
      }
      }
    3. Re:Remember Hamlet in 15 minutes? by Kelson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The thing with Shakespeare -- or any play, for that matter -- is that you're reading a script. A script isn't meant to be read, it's meant to be performed. You might as well try to follow a symphony by reading the sheet music.

      A good troupe of actors with a good director can take even the archaic language of four centuries ago and perform it in a way that's easy to follow and, believe it or not, entertaining. Action, body language and inflection can do wonders for making the meaning clear.

    4. Re:Remember Hamlet in 15 minutes? by Keith+Russell · · Score: 5, Funny

      You can not truly appreciate Shakespeare until you've read him in the original COBOL.

      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
    5. Re:Remember Hamlet in 15 minutes? by slaker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh, it is sad that I know this: You're looking for a movie called "In the Flesh". It is surprisingly, shockingly true to the play.

      --
      -- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
    6. Re:Remember Hamlet in 15 minutes? by OakDragon · · Score: 5, Funny
      I prefer "Cliff Notes for Cliff Notes."

      For example, "The Bible:"

      God creates man, then gets pissed at everything man does.

      Credit where credit is due, I think I say that in the National Lampoon.

  3. OMFG!!! by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article describes the efforts of Dot Mobile to make such literary masterpieces as Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet more accessible.

    Perhaps Professor Sutherland ought to check out the following links:

    Romeo & Juliet
    Hamlet

    Kudos to Chris Coutts...they're still damned funny, although the idea of Professor Sutherland pitching this sort of thing for real is just ludicrous. As the epitath on the Bard's tombstone reads:
    Good friend for Jesus sake forbeare,
    To dig the dust enclosed here.
    Blessed be the man that spares these stones,
    And cursed be he that moves my bones.
    Does this mean that Professor Sutherland is cursed, since he's caused Shakespeare's corpse to spin at such a rapid rate? ^_^
    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  4. r0m30, r0m30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    wtf wallhax0r cl4n?

  5. I predict by stoolpigeon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the net impact of this will be nil. What person who was going to read some classic piece of literature is going to forego that experience after checking out the text message summary?
     
    And who will go read the real thing after getting one of these?
     
    In fact I also will go out on a limb and predict that this marketing ploy by the cell phone company will fail. Kids will not want these phones and that will greatly overwhelm the couple idiot parents who might think this would be a good idea.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    1. Re:I predict by Atzanteol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or if an angsty teenage girl tells an angsty teenage boy that they're "just like Romeo and Juliet", then the boy will at least know that the world is so fucked up that they're better off committing suicide.

      I think you may have found the silver lining...

      However, if anything I think kids should be watching movie adaptations of Shakespeare. Shakespeare wrote plays. There were intended to be acted out, not read. I've never liked reading it so much as watching it. Especiallly those directed by Kenneth Branagh.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
  6. Learn from the times man. by Romancer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Make them into games.

    Can you imagine a more violent game than Romeo and Juliet?
    Two gang waring mafia type families and a plot where the two main characters die?

    Have the full text and add a game requirement that you have to talk to people with the accent and all. actually walk up to people and ask them questions and make statements that forward the game, rather than the standard now where you just button mash to get through the plot and power up.

    Mix the two areas, good games need good plot, and good books need to be read by later generations.

    --


    ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
    ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
  7. well by revery · · Score: 4, Funny

    I, for one, am starting to root for the asteroids.

  8. The sky is falling! by eison · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't we get warnings about this every decade for the last several centuries? Wasn't writing in the vernacular going to ruin writing back ever since writing was invented?

    --
    is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
  9. Re:Garbage in Garbage Out by under_score · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Okay, maybe I will say more.

    I've only read a very small sampling of great literature. A bit of Charles Dickens, Charlotte and Emily Bronte, Leo Tolstoy, and a few others. I can't claim to be well-read in this regard.

    However, the little that I have read has had substantial benefit to me. I have been exposed to life circumstances, themes, thoughts, philosophies in a depth that has expanded my ability to see outside my own limited experiences, empathize and sympathize with other people, see the possibility that I might be wrong or prejudiced. As well, my use of language has improved in terms of vocabulary, style and metaphor.

    There is no way that anyone can convince me that simplifying and making this literature "more accessible" is in any way beneficial except in the most limited fact-retention sense. Knowing the facts of a plot comes nowhere close to experiencing the expression of those facts in a sublime piece of literature.

    That said, I appreciate the sentiment. I think there is a lot of legitimate concern that students do not get exposed to these sorts of literary works. However, this approach is at best a bandaid over a minor symptom of a much deeper problem. How much better would it be to address the real problems of the quality of our education and child-raising? I'm not saying that I know the real solution... that is beyond me... but I can see when something is missing the mark, and possibly harmful.

  10. Remembering plot points? That's how you teach?! by jonnythan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The point of Shakespeare and Dickens is not to memorize what happens. It's not history class. The Picture of Dorian Gray isn't a story about a portrait, it isn't a history lesson about what crazy stuff happened to some rich guy in the 19th century, it's a wonderful work of literature about a man and a time period.

    Memorizing a few plot points and quotes from Faulkner does absolutely squat for learning anything whatsoever about these works of art. This isn't raising educational standards.

    Turning Hamlet into a text message removes 100% of what makes it important. There's no point to it anymore at all.

  11. Re:Classics by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We put far too much devotion into the "classics' and developing our "canon recognition", and not enough time into actual thinking up new and interesting ideas.

    Because "the classics", if not actually defining our culture, give us a common foundation on which to build a shared cultural experience.

    Did a dead semi-anonymous 16th century hack pop-poet/playwright really create the best-ever-and-always set of English writings? Of course not! He wrote the equivalent of "Seinfeld" for the televidiots of his day. But like it or not, that does give us a certain common ground on which to relate to one another socially. We like "lowbrow" humor. We prefer the good guy to win. We want blood and guts and gore and veins in our teeth. We enjoy Moe getting poked in the eyes by Larry. We want to see the queen kiss a Federline, everyone to tragically die at the end, and the servants to get away with a good practical joke on their bosses.


    Now, based on the above, does it commit some grievous sin to "translate" the works of this ancient hack into a more modern form? To that, I would say no, with a qualification - One can modernize without butchering. Converting Hamlet to the style of texting fails to make the work more accessible, instead tailoring it to a very niche subculture of rebellion-without-a-clue (and likely a short-lived subculture at that, as it only even exists as the fleeting intersection of a technological limitation with an economic convenience).

  12. The article certainly teeters... by sczimme · · Score: 4, Funny


    From the Fine Article (and the summary):

    'We are confident that our version of 'text' books will... raise up educational standards rather than decrease levels of literacy"

    Wow, that's good news. I was afraid they would raise the standards down.

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
    1. Re:The article certainly teeters... by Txiasaeia · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Seriously, though, how is encouraging students to read in l33t sp33k "raising educational standards"? The only educational standard that's being addressed is grammar and spelling: not only are these great works being themselves butchered, but they're discouraging students from actually *reading* the originals - unless, of course, they're like me and can't read l33t at all, and need the originals like the Rosetta Stone to translate these cryptic messages appearing on their cell phones

      What use is it to teach kids about masterpieces of English literature without teaching them how to properly read them? As far as I'm concerned, this is doubleplusungood. You want kids to get more into Shakespeare? Take them to see a play, which is how Shakespeare intended us to experience his works! Hell, even watching BBC's Pride and Prejudice is better than "Evry1GtsMaryd."

      --
      Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    2. Re:The article certainly teeters... by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It reminds me a heck of a lot of the speech Captain Beatty gavein Fahrenheit 451, where he talks about how this line offended a group, so it got trimmed, that line bothered someone else who didn't understand it, so it got nixed, and so on, until it got to the point where nobody had the patience to read the whole work, and eventually, books were eliminated (in the film, newspapers were in comic form without any words). Contrary to what some have said in other threads, Shakespeare is not that hard to understand -- if you're willing to make an effort at first, it gets easy once you get over that "hump".

      I don't think we'll lose the classics, but I think we're heading toward a tiered society (if we're not there already) composed of the literate and well educated and the underclass who stay in non-thinking jobs, a lot like Metropolis.

      Whenever I read news like this, I want to write Ray Bradbury and say I knew he was right from when I first read F451, and it's a damn shame he wasn't wrong.

    3. Re:The article certainly teeters... by JanneM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think we'll lose the classics, but I think we're heading toward a tiered society (if we're not there already) composed of the literate and well educated and the underclass who stay in non-thinking jobs, a lot like Metropolis.

      There has never been a time or a place where this has not been the case. Literature, the arts and so on has always been a matter for a cultural "elite" (and I don't mean it in the republican/conservative sense) and the low-to-middle class people that aspire to it.

      If an artform, or a particular piece of art, has genuine, lasting mass appeal, it is normally exorcized from the "canon" and not longer a part of that which you "should" aspire to know. The whole point of Great Literature (as opposed to great literature) is to separate Those Who Have Read It from the unwashed masses who cheerfully haven't.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  13. Re:It's done in music already. by lxt · · Score: 5, Informative

    Why dont you actually learn what a fake book is before commenting? A proper fake book takes *skill* to play well. You don't get the "dumb chords"...in fact, all you're given is the melody line - a single tune, along with chords in text running along the top. It's up to you, the (typically piano) player to improvise the accompianment, harmony, vamps, and the like. There's a pretty big difference between a proper jazz fake book and the dumbed down classical books you're describing - nobody actually wrote down many of the jazz tunes in the fake books properly, and they're often carefully (and it used to be illegally) transcriped and published by jazz players.

  14. Re:It's done in music already. by mopslik · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...why not a dumbed down Jane Austen or Dostoyevsky on your bookshelf?

    I guess Dostoevsky's The Idiot will be appropriately titled.

  15. Re:What's that game called again? by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There's a type of home game where you can spell things out in "leet" speak, or you get cards with strange letter and number cominations and you have to decipher the meaning. Anyone remember what it's called? That's what I think of when I see someone writing "R U Their".

    Actually, it's worse than that.

    It's not merely substitution of "u" for "you". It's an entire dialect. If you read through it "aloud" (i.e. subvocalizing every word, in the order in which it's written), it's parsable as spoken English, but not as written English.

    The frightening part is that it's an indication that we're indeed raising a generation of illiterates. People who make it through school in this state can (probably) read English, they can (definitely) speak English, but without punctuation or capitalization, they're incapable of writing it.

    (random googling ensues... revealing the following representative sample that appears to discuss the physics/animation of a computer basketball game)

    wat r u stupid or something wat do u want to be doing standing up straight and running with da ball u idiot dast real animation he is going low and attacking the basket dumb a** watch basketball and u will c him do da same exact thing

    Stick a few commas and periods and capitals in there and it's essentially a machine-generated transcript of the following spoken English:

    "What are you, stupid or something? What do you want to be doing? Standing up straight and running with the ball? You idiot! That's real animation: he's going low and attacking the basket. Dumbass, watch basketball and you'll see him do the same exact thing."

    The punctuation and capitalization cues aren't strictly necessary to make sense of it, but their presence enables a brain to quickly scan over the passage without having to read it as though it were dialogue on a script.

    Net effect: People who write English can have their ideas read and digested more rapidly than people who write in txtspeak.

    But if we're moving to a postliterate society, that might not be such a hindrance for the illiterates. If you can read English quickly (because most of the written English you'll encounter still contains punctuation/capitalization), but are never required to write English (because omnipresent voice/video messaging has replaced email as a means of communication), maybe it doesn't matter that you're half-illiterate.

  16. Re:It's done in music already. by KylePflug · · Score: 4, Funny
    A "real book" is a fake book. I've never seen a legitimate real book. The term fake book doesn't exist here. A real book is fake for everyone I know.
    God I'm confused.
  17. My personal favorite: by djtack · · Score: 4, Funny
    My personal favoride abridged book:The Silmarillion in 1000 words
    AINULINDALE:

    ILUVATAR: Ahem.
    AINUR: Wow! Existence!
    ILUVATAR: *blows pitch pipe* LA!
    AINUR: LA LA LA!
    ILUVATAR: LA LA!
    AINUR: LA LA!
    MELKOR: This sucks. BUM BUM BA DUM!
    AINUR: Um. . . la?
    ILUVATAR: Ahem. LA!
    MELKOR: Boop bop-a-doo-bop!
    ILUVATAR: LA, dammit.
    MELKOR: Bwam bardle ningle boom.
    AINUR: . . .
    ILUVATAR: Right, you're out of the band.
    MELKOR: Fine, I was leaving anyway.
    AINUR: . . .
    ILUVATAR: What are you waiting for?
    AINUR: Oh. Right. Newly created world. Sorry. Great jam session, big guy!
    ILUVATAR: Yeesh.
    .
    .
    .