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Darwin Evolving Into A Tricky Exhibit

rbochan writes "The new Darwin Exhibit at the American Museum of Natural History has 'failed to find a corporate sponsor in the United States because American companies are anxious not to take sides in the heated debate between scientists and fundamentalist Christians over the theory of evolution' according to articles at The Sydney Morning Herald, The Telegraph, and The Register. The $US3 million needed for the exhibit was met by private charitable donations."

14 of 1,364 comments (clear)

  1. Most disturbing..... by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pathetic. I am much more willing to give my business to those companies that can take a stand. Furthermore, as a professor in the biosciences, I am especially troubled by stories like this. Perhaps even more disturbing is that this does not appear to be a news item covered in the mainstream US media. I had to learn about this first from Slashdot, the Sydney Morning Herald, The Telegraph and The Register, thanks to ~rbochan.

    Arguably, much of our current understanding of biology and bioscience (development of drugs and antibiotics, medicine etc...etc...etc...) and many things that may surprise you are due to a fundamental understanding of biology. Try future developments in body armor, engineering, acoustics, propulsion and search algorithms on for size. All of those disparate fields have been influenced and guided by cross-polination from bioscience and ignoring or even worse, rejecting a scientific understanding of the world will only hold us back.

    It is particularly ironic because one of the missions of the American Museum of Natural History is education of those very same individuals and corporations who are benefitting from decades of science education in the United States.

    Religious extremism come in many flavors folks, and if we are not careful, we are going to lose our edge. Remember, this country is only a couple hundred years old. Those societies that have embraced education and science historically are those societies that survive.

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    1. Re:Most disturbing..... by Qzukk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the end, I'd much rather that companies don't take a stand. Not about evolution, not about politics, not about anything else. The fewer companies that throw their weight around for whatever reason, good or bad, the more our country moves towards something representative of the desires of the human beings who live here.

      I'm sure that many of the same CxOs who refused to risk their company's image put their own money in the pot. Now if only they'd do the same for everything else.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    2. Re:Most disturbing..... by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it wasn't science. It was literacy and tolerance. These are precisely the sort of values that allow things such as science to flourish. These are also the sort of values that would prevent even the most religiously zealous members of some 4000 year old culture from interfering with a science curriculum.

      One must bear in mind that the Vatican doesn't even think that "Intellegent Design" has any place in a science classroom.

      No, shenanigans of this sort are being driven by the protestant equivalent of the Taliban.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Most disturbing..... by karzan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Name any society that has survived more than 4000 years ever.

      I assume what you mean by 'society' is not an ethnic group but a kind of recognisable contiguous social formation. Even this is hard to define--for example, did British society as we know it today begin in the dark ages, did it begin 1000 years ago or is it really so fundamentally different now to what it was then that we can't call it the same society?

      But even if we forget this difficulty and just go by conventional definitions, for things like the Roman Empire or ancient Egypt, I think you would be hard pressed to find any society that has ever lasted more than 4000 years. For example, ancient Egypt as we think of it, i.e. as a unified state/civilisation, lasted from approximately 3200 BC to 332 BC, i.e. less than 3000 years. And despite the old European myth of an 'ancient Africa', most of the sub-Saharan African societies that existed at the time of colonisation were largely the result of migration of Bantu peoples starting in approximately the 2nd millennium BC making these societies at the very most 4000 years old, but in reality because of the lack of written history we have know way of knowing if there was much historical continuity in them at all, as opposed to changing through many phases.

      The idea of civilisations that exist in recognisable form for very long periods of time is a myth. Human society is inherently unstable. Tribal groups as much as other kinds of society often destroy each other, or destroy the environment on which they depend through overexploitation. As far as anyone knows, there has just never really been a time when there have been societies that have lasted much more than 4000 years, and even the 3000 years of the Egyptian state is based on a very loose definition of a society when you consider the changes that occurred in Egyptian history.

      Don't mean to nitpick, but if you are trying to claim that religion holds societies together for many thousands of years, I don't think the case can be argued on that basis.

    4. Re:Most disturbing..... by timeOday · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do we even know whether or not this was about taking a stand on Darwin in the first place? I only read the first article, but I saw exactly 0 companies quoted as witholding support to avoid controversy. It's a very slippery business trying to ascribe one particular cause to the lack of support for a fundraiser. "I'm persecuted" sounds a lot better than "nobody's interested." I've never been to any natural history museum that even hinted at anything other than Darwinism, so I don't see why it would be so controversial now.

  2. Debate? by taskforce · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Sorry, there's an actual debate going on?

    As in those presenting the current crop of alternate theories have a leg to stand on? This is really news to me.

    --
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  3. Here's the ticket by Chickenofbristol55 · · Score: 5, Funny
    'failed to find a corporate sponsor in the United States because American companies are anxious not to take sides in the heated debate between scientists and fundamentalist Christians over the theory of evolution'

    I think Darwin's theory needs to evolve to survive in its ever changing environment.

    --
    public class null extends java applet { System.out.print ("Tabula Rasa"); }
  4. Why not big pharma? by Biff+Stu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They need a trained workforce that understands biology and chemistry. If the religious wack jobs can't handle it, let them boycott the latest antibiotics. After all, bacteria don't evolve, right?

    1. Re:Why not big pharma? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      show me a bacteria that has become a fish

      Go fishing.

      Catch a fish.

      There you go.

      (Okay, that was a flip answer. Here's a serious one.)

      The timescale for major evolutionary change in multicellular life is so enormous that we're not going to see bacteria evolving into fish. However, I've noticed that when creationists use this argument, which turns up in many different forms, they have no idea how diverse microbial life actually is. When you say "they evolve, but they remain a bacteria," I think you have no idea just how different from each other various forms of bacteria actually are. There's more difference, in fact, between various strains of bacteria that we have observed evolving into each other than there is between a fish and a human being.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  5. Making Evolution palatable to Fundamentalist Chris by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Funny
    $sys$Evolution.

    Now only the geeks will learn about it.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  6. Re:Evolution is Theory After All by geomon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's no denying that evolution is far from established fact and is fundamentally a theory with PLENTY of holes and unanswered questions.

    As to the mechanism of evolution, yes there is debate in the scientific commmunity. As to whether evolution has occurred, there is no debate in the scientific community.

    To me I see those zealots who accept evolution as fact in the same light as how *they* perceive Christians and Christianity: mindless minions of bad logic and reasoning.

    So you reject the notion that there is any evidence for the *fact* that evolution has occurred?

    Explain why there are so many shared genes between species. In fact, the human genome is one big code sharing exercise.

    It just seems like evolutionists want to skip a whole bunch of steps and not do the actual science required to figure out if the evidence supports their theory or not.

    What steps have they skipped?

    That's the scientific method, folks. You never PROVE anything: you have evidence that either supports or doesn't support your theory.

    And you haven't done anything to support your position other than flap your arms around wildly.

    Show us the holes in evolution. Show us where steps have been missed. Show us how YOU would apply the scientific method any differently to, say, the theory of gravity.

    --
    "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
  7. Re:Agenda..... by Xtifr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if that were true (and I think you're thinking of Huxley), it has nothing to do with his theory or with evolution. Do you think that any exhibit about Newton's Theory of Gravity should have to "be accurate" in that Newton was a religious crank who spent a large part of his time working on insane theories of alchemy? Are Newton's beliefs about alchemy in any way relevent to his theories of gravity, thermodynamics or light?

    In any case, Darwin's experience of religion was fairly limited. Most religions by now have come to terms with the discoveries of science and natural philosophy, including most forms of Christianity. It is not "Christians" who object to the Theory of Gravity^WRelativity^WEvolution, it is a tiny, but vocal (and annoying, and scary), minority of Christians. Christians who no more represent the mainstream of Christianity than the Muslim suicide bombers (who they strongly resemble) represent the mainstream of Mohammedism.

    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended
    us to forgo their use."
        -- Galileo Galilei

  8. Re:The Dumbing-Down Of America, part XXVII by general_re · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If you don't think that what is in the Bible is literal, you CAN'T be a Christian.

    So when Christ said "I am the door" (John 10:9), do you suppose he had hinges and a doorknob?

    --
    ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
  9. uhm, hardly. by slashkitty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I wanted to raise 10 billion dollars for world peace, and no one gave me any money, does that mean that EVERYONE is against world peace?

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    -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.