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SANS Institute Warns of Attack Shift

JamesAlfaro writes "SANS warned of the switch to attacks on applications and network devices in its annual publication of the Top 20 vulnerabilities on Tuesday. The annual SANS Top 20 highlights holes in software programs that are considered the most serious for security professionals. Microsoft shares the spotlight this year with Symantec Corp., Cisco Systems Inc., Oracle Corp. and others, after a year in which warnings about vulnerabilities in antivirus and computer backup software and the surprise publication of information on a hole in Cisco Systems' IOS (Internetwork Operating System) made headlines."

80 comments

  1. There are holes in shell commands!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you know there is a hole in cat that will allow attackers to concatenate files and even redirect the standard output to yet another location? It's so scary it keeps me up at night.

    1. Re:There are holes in shell commands!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next time pick a passcode that isn't "meow."

  2. Interesting article, but... by someone1234 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What about IE? Is it 'internet' or 'application'? Ie. (not pun) does it belong to the former or the latter group. You can hear a new ActiveX or Javascript vulnerability in IE every month. And holes in Oracle are old news too. So, i don't see the 'big shift'. I expect some shift towards Firefox exploits though (as contrary to belief, it crashes too). As soon as it reaches a critical mass of users so it 'worths bothering with'.

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    1. Re:Interesting article, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      did you read what you wrote??
      too much coffee today ? lol

  3. New shift? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Funny

    We've been living with Outlook/Exchange Server for this long... is the worst REALLY ahead of us?

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  4. And here I thought that..... by 8127972 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ......the worst vunerablity was being in range of Ballmer's chair.

    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
  5. I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    I don't doubt this for a second!

    IMO, today's modern OS' are pretty damn secure/solid as well as stable.

    The "pre-cursor" to this 'prediction' etc./et all might be just looking @ how tools like Outlook Express/"full" Outlook from Office has gotten abused by attachments that house virii & spam as well.

    (Personally, because of that? I wouldn't call this a "breakthru" epiphany type of thing, some utterly new concept @ all... just a rehash of an older one. What one's that? Read the novel "The Cuckoo's Egg" by Clifford Stoll. It outlines how a team of German Hacker/Cracker types under hire by the Russian KGB penetrated U.S. Military bases by abusing the buffer overflow's possible in a program written by Richard Stallman of GNU fame & on UNIX systems... sound familiar to the buffer overflow exploits you hear about today?)

    APK

    1. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by VENONA · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, the egg was a permissions problem, not a buffer overflow. Many people consider permissions issues much more common in Windows. Especially if you think of having to run as Admin for so many things as a permissions issue.

      Nor would I agree with "today's modern OS' are pretty damn secure/solid as well as stable." There have been far to many worms, etc. Also, I *really* wish Microsoft would get their browser out of the OS. Yet another unpatched, zero-day, control of system exploit was announced today. It's even been mentioned on Slashdot!

      http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/22/135 2212&tid=113&tid=128&tid=172&tid=218

      They wired their browser in largely as a tactic for defeating Netscape. Once again, their customers are paying the price.

      --
      What you do with a computer does not constitute the whole of computing.
    2. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Actually, the egg was a permissions problem, not a buffer overflow" - by VENONA (902751) on Tuesday November 22, @08:34PM

      I have the novel, read it last year, do you? Or, did you just read some "synopsis" of it online?? I am curious, please answer that.

      See, it was the result of the cracker/hacker team being able to buffer overflow one of Richard Stallman's programs, specifically, EMACS!

      Here's some reference material for you, a quote from a review (since you don't have this novel apparently):

      http://www.inforingpress.com/articles/cuckoos-egg. htm

      "We learn Hunter can get away with his antics because he found a backdoor bug in Unix through open source advocate Richard Stallman's GNU-EMACs text editor"

      The buffer overflow portion is illustrated here, in a timeline of them when they had been used in such attacks:

      http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:-IPirdPheP0J: www.cs.fit.edu/~tr/cs-2002-12.pdf+%22The+Cuckoos+E gg%22+and+%22buffer+overflow%22&hl=en

      (See the portion about a "Chronology of Buffer Overflow Exploits" in Table #1, specifically the 1989 entry)

      1989 The Cuckoos Egg is written after Clifford Stoll, a system administrator, catches hackers who had broken in to his system (PBS)

      (You're only PARTIALLY correct, in EMACS' mailing abilities portion).

      "Nor would I agree with "today's modern OS' are pretty damn secure/solid as well as stable." There have been far to many worms, etc. Also, I *really* wish Microsoft would get their browser out of the OS. Yet another unpatched, zero-day, control of system exploit was announced today. It's even been mentioned on Slashdot!" - by VENONA (902751) on Tuesday November 22, @08:34PM

      And, there aren't holes like that on Linux/UNIX??? Answer that as well please, & I will counter answer with a flurry of information on THAT account as well.

      Thanks!

      APK

    3. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to follow up:

      On the EMACS by Richard Stallman being exploited via buffer overflow, since this topic is about applications being exploited (this topic @ slashdot)?

      What is it you think that those that take over applications vulnerabilities are out to do??

      Let me tell you (1 possible, as the Cliff Stoll novel illustrated) - It's about privilege escalation via those buffer overflows.

      (Thought I'd clarify that for you as to WHY folks that attack apps with unchecked buffers go after them, @ least one possible)

      APK

      P.S.=> I'd still like to hear an answer from you about Linux/UNIX apps not being exploitable as well... this topic's not so much about the OS' themselves being hacked up due to their components having problems (parts of the OS) but the apps riding on said OS', as this point illustrates using "the Cuckoo's Egg" and how EMACS was used for this... thanks! apk

    4. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some MORE info. for you, as to kernel level flaws in Linux (still year 2005 current on many of them):

      http://secunia.com/search/?search=Linux+Kernel&w=0

      BOATLOADS OF SECURITY FLAWS STILL EXIST IN LINUX, local & remote exploitable, period, with various ratings from "critical", "less critical", to "not critical" (although, this last one is subject to opinion & discussion imo).

      NOW - And, as to the popularity of Windows Server 2003 vs. UNIX & Linux @ the server level currently? Here we go:

      http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/11/23/HNwindow sleads_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld. com/article/05/11/23/HNwindowsleads_1.html

      "Sales of Windows systems accounted for 36.9 percent of all server revenue in the quarter, versus 31.7 percent for Unix and 11.5 percent for Linux (Overview, Articles, Company), Eastwood said. Enterprises increasingly are using Windows-based servers for applications such as ERP (enterprise resource planning) in addition to traditional uses such as e-mail and Web hosting. Migration from Windows NT to newer versions of Windows also is driving sales, he said. Server revenue grew faster than IDC's projection, which was for 6 percent growth, according to Eastwood. For the first time, you could say that Microsoft has its own legacy, and that legacy is NT," Eastwood said. How much of Windows' gain will be permanent is hard to say, he added. However, just two years ago, Windows servers were only 31.5 percent of the market, according to IDC. Gartner's figures showed Windows servers with more than 37 percent of the market, also in first place, according to analyst Joseph Gonzalez."

      * That quoted/said? Well, what's growing the fastest CURRENTLY? Read the above, & weep!

      APK

      P.S.=> It's best to be informed, with current info., wouldn't you agree? In addition to that, there is documentation from legitimate 3rd party tests that show for instance, that Windows Server 2003 (SP#1 fully hotfix patched) + SQLServer 2000 (SP#3 with hotfixes) is more secure than Linux variants like Redhat + Oracle or MyPHP as DBEngines, & the funny part from that analysis was the fact that most of the vulnerabilities found weren't @ the DBEngine level, but @ the OS core/kernel level...apk

    5. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Above all/Lastly?

      Your "screwup" post was rated 3 & modded-up, & it had blatant "I read it in a book review/wikipedia/google" mistakes to it!

      As to the mistakes?

      They were about the permissions issue that VENONA said was what was used... lol, when in fact it was what I stated it was:

      Buffer overflow exploits being used (to GAIN privelege escalation) regarding the exploit I noted from the novel (true story) called "The Cuckoos Egg" by Clifford Stoll.

      Get it right next time!

      Mods, or those that modded VENONA up? DO YOUR JOB RIGHT!

      (Try research the info. prior to modding someone up as you did he... As you can read, he was off! Way, WAY, off... & incomplete).

      APK

      P.S.=> Now, if you don't like that? Disprove what I wrote &/or quoted above! Pretty simple... somehow, I think that VENONA won't reply here again... apk

    6. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by VENONA · · Score: 1

      "I have the novel, read it last year, do you? Or, did you just read some "synopsis" of it online?? I am curious, please answer that."

      and

      "Here's some reference material for you, a quote from a review (since you don't have this novel apparently)"

      Yes, I own the novel. Read it years ago. Just dragged it from the shelf again, and found the reference to a permissions problem. I have the 2000 printing of the Pocket Books edition. In that edition, the explanation starts on page 27. From there to the end of the explanation on page 29 or so, there is no mention of a buffer overflow. The novel isn't written for a very technical audience. Explaining a buffer overflow was probably a bit much to expect.

      I didn't worry too much about it, as the flaw had long since been patched. Just looked at the Gillette overflow paper you linked to. I won't have time to read it 'till tonight, but it looks interesting. Thanks for the link.

      As to the presence of zero-day exploits in Linux, I say yes, there are. At any one time, there are probably several. Most any complex system will have them. A quote from Edsger Dijkstra: "I would therefore like to posit that computing's central challenge, viz. "How not to make a mess of it," has /not/ been met."

      My take is that Linux has fewer of them, and they tend to be fixed more quickly--particularly the remote root exploits. The fixes also tend to be of higher quality. There are very few cases of the patch not really fixing the problem, and they tend to be more robust. You won't see many partial fixes, such as the many that have come out from Microsoft related to RPC/DCOM.

      As to the Secunia reference--no way do I have time to chase all these down for a few days. I did check a couple, and they were DoS exploits, not remote root. Probably few if any are remote root.

      "BOATLOADS OF SECURITY FLAWS STILL EXIST IN LINUX, local & remote exploitable, period, with various ratings from "critical", "less critical", to "not critical" (although, this last one is subject to opinion & discussion imo)."

      MS is famous for claiming something isn't critical until exploit code is circulating in the wild. I expect you know this, and are now attempting to FUD a famous MS problem into something generic enough to apply to all operating systems.

      Since you're generating "please answers", here's two points.
      1- You haven't responded to anything I've said about Internet Explorer. A famous source of problems.
      2- Quit posting as an AC if you want an ongoing discussion.

      --
      What you do with a computer does not constitute the whole of computing.
    7. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by VENONA · · Score: 1

      "Your "screwup" post was rated 3 & modded-up, & it had blatant "I read it in a book review/wikipedia/google" mistakes to it!"

      My post was made from having read the book, as I replied above. When the event actually happened, I was a Unix user, not any sort of coder, beyond a bit of shell scripting. I had no security responsibilities. In 2000, when I read the book, there was little point in researching the root cause--it had long since been patched.

      "P.S.=> Now, if you don't like that? Disprove what I wrote &/or quoted above! Pretty simple... somehow, I think that VENONA won't reply here again... apk"

      And why wouldn't I reply? Because I didn't reply to a flurry of you replying to yourself, all in a 3 1/2 hour period, as an AC? I've been in !@#$ meetings all morning, not hanging on Slashdot! Given the subject of the meetings, I'd have accomplished as much either way. The discussion is valid, and useful.

      I think it would be nice if any interested party with Linux experience would chase through that Secunia reference, for instance. I know that all critical systems I'm responsible for are fully patched, well hardened, and not 0wn3d. So I have nether the time nor a driving need to chase through the reference myself. Maybe I can shake lose for a couple of hours this evening, or by this weekend, at any rate. If anyone wants to look through it, start at the top. I'll start at the bottom, and we'll meet in the middle.

      Look, I'll even give *you* a bit of ammunition. I have annecdotal evidence that at least one core kernel developer has some track record of fixing security bugs with no corresponding CVS entries. IMHO, that's wrong. It's security by obscurity. When bugs like that are found, they should be published so that people know to upgrade their kernel. I'm not saying this is some huge widespread thing. Just that I have some evidence that it's happened on a small scale.

      --
      What you do with a computer does not constitute the whole of computing.
    8. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "1- You haven't responded to anything I've said about Internet Explorer. A famous source of problems." - by VENONA (902751) on Wednesday November 23, @01:50PM

      Fact is, I posted originally about Outlook Express & FULL Outlook being exploited.

      OR, Isn't that good enough?

      (And IE? I won't use it, period, unless I absolutely have to, or am forced to. There are BETTER browsers out there, & I like Opera 8.51 currently...)

      Fact, AGAIN, is this:

      You plain-jane messed up about the novel's facts - & that was that buffer overflow exploits were used on the EMACS program by Richard Stallman, & THAT was used for privelege escalation.

      Period.

      "As to the Secunia reference--no way do I have time to chase all these down for a few days. I did check a couple, and they were DoS exploits, not remote root. Probably few if any are remote root." - by VENONA (902751) on Wednesday November 23, @01:50PM

      Did I specify 'remote root'? NO! I just showed TONS of errors regarding Linux itself. As to the apps that ride on it??

      Show me some I cannot counter for in Windows that yield remote root. I would like to see that, & I would wager my system's ALREADY prepped for it.

      Go for it. Consider it a challenge.

      (Plus, I'd say there is just as much of a shot of those being exploited as there is of apps on MS OS'... if not more, since there are more holes in Linux @ the kernel/core level than you suspected. And, where do most ALL API functions, in any OS, boil down to? The core of the OS... e.g.-> NTDLL.DLL in Windows NT-based OS is a good 95% of what the Win32 API boils down into!)

      "MS is famous for claiming something isn't critical until exploit code is circulating in the wild. I expect you know this, and are now attempting to FUD a famous MS problem into something generic enough to apply to all operating systems." - by VENONA (902751) on Wednesday November 23, @01:50PM

      LOL, who does that THE MOST? Good Lord, Linux Penguins do! Especially here @ slashdot.

      Why?? Your OS just does not do as well as Microsoft offerings, period, & YOU KNOW IT!

      APK

      P.S.=> And, I'll post as "AC" as much as I like... quit giving orders. You aren't that great technically in this field to begin with & I can tell that much already with ease... especially on how you blew that issue about Richard Stallman's EMACS being exploited for a buffer overflow (which you said was 'not the problem' & it was, since it is how the privelege escalation attacks in the novel were created)... apk

    9. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "My post was made from having read the book, as I replied above" - by VENONA (902751) on Wednesday November 23, @02:27PM

      Ahem - bull! That, or you have a VERY poor memory, &/or poor understanding of security concepts, period, as far as what & how buffer overflow exploits work & HOW THEY ARE UTILIZED & USUALLY WHY - to gain root/superuser (admin) privelege levels of access. Additionally, the EMACS problem from the novel "The Cuckoos Egg"?? Yes, I know it was patched, AGES ago!

      However, it served as an example of what this thread here @ slashdot's about first of all & about UNIX apps having the SAME PROBLEMS!

      (EMACS = app, & this threads' about how apps with holes in them get exploited for root privelege, such as buffer overflows allow)

      AND my replies regarding it were in response to your errors about it!

      (LOL, for which you got modded up for here? Says a LOT about the quality of technical editing & moderating done here @ slashdot, doesn't it?? You were WRONG, and got modded up for it? Give me a break!)

      "Look, I'll even give *you* a bit of ammunition" - by VENONA (902751) on Wednesday November 23, @02:27PM

      LOL! I don't need any against your already known errors here & on this very topic no less...

      Why?

      Well, your own blunders here in this thread! E.G.-> You said the problem was "priveleges" & NOT BUFFER OVERFLOWS!

      (Where I said it was about buffer overflows being used to GET privelege escalation & know I am correct about it, from both the book "the Cuckoos Egg" and this topic as well as my own knowledge of it (since EMACS is an app on UNIX, & this thread's about apps being used for this type of thing due to holes in them LIKE BUFFER OVERFLOW EXPLOITS), & WHY crackers want to find buffer overflows period... to gain "root/superuser/admin" level access (thus, privelege escalation)).

      APK

      P.S.=> By the way, I've been in the same thing all A.M. (meetings etc.) & managed to reply here earlier in mere minutes (just a few, I don't have to think too long to reply here or really, any forums boards) simply pointed out your own mistakes you made in regards to buffer overflow exploits & why/how they're used... Was easy to do. Especially about your blunder about "the problem was priveleges" where I said SPECIFICALLY it was about buffer overflows... those are what you CAN use to gain root/superuser/admin access.

      At this point? Heck, I can pretty much say as a GOOD guess, with confidence, you do not write code... and IF you do? You don't understand the concepts of security around it & WHY they have to be practiced. This came from your reply about the "Cuckoos Egg" & overlooking the true cause I mentioned - buffer overflows & how they are used to gain privelege escalations.

      If you can't code and I suspect you don't, or well? Personally, I feel you cannot be that good @ this level of work (security in networking, because imo @ least, to be good THERE? You need to be a competent network engineer/admin AND a coder).

      "I know that all critical systems I'm responsible for are fully patched, well hardened, and not 0wn3d" - by VENONA (902751) on Wednesday November 23, @02:27PM

      Yup, I was right: It seems you're just a network administrator at best, & not a coder, or that good of one imo @ least.

      Newsflash: Network Admin/Engineer = a user with a better password, & that's all... now, sorry if you don't LIKE that, but that's pretty much what coders think of you guys @ that level in this field, & doesn't matter if it's a multicampus WAN setup... it's just a bigger version of the smaller ones for all intents & purposes!

      (And, I used to be a network admin for years before becoming a coder too, so you know, & have every right to make that comment, been there/done that, for many a year (decades now in fact) on BOTH levels)... apk

    10. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by VENONA · · Score: 1

      Dude, will you relax? None of this is meant to be any sort of personal attack or challenge. If it came off that way, I apologize.

      I don't care what OS you use. I prefer Linux on the desktop, because I'm more used to it, and more productive in it. On the server, I use it a lot, and OpenBSD on rare occasions. If I have to, by the nature of the job, I'll use Solaris or HP-UX. I have little exposure to AIX. I own Microsoft Windows and Office, and use them when I have to. That's actually pretty frequently, as there are a couple of serious gaps in Open Source app coverage.

      I much prefer Linux, all else being equal, but I am definitely not some raving Linux-only guy. Nor am I responsible for what some of the more adamant Linux fans here post.

      I brought IE into this because of the cooincidence of yet another remote admin vulnerability, which was published the very same day, and because Microsoft *should not* have bundled it into the OS. Both for security reasons, and because IMHO, doing it abused a monopoly position in the market to destroy a competitor.

      As far as some of the Secunia content not involving remote root, that's what the discussion is all about. That's what made the Cuckoos egg that you initially posted about so devastating. That's why we're talking about kernel exploits. Root access.

      I still don't know why you're so upset about my original remark about your Cuckoo's Egg post. I've already explained why I hadn't dug deeply into the exploit--already patched. If you'd given overflow reference in your post, I'd have just read it, and thought, "Cool. Thanks, AC, whoever you are." I'd probably have posted to say thanks.

      As it happens, you'd probably no idea that that would be a good thing to do, and made a casual post. I did the same thing--made a casual post, based on what I remembered was in the book. If I'd known this was going to turn into some sort of hostile punch and counter-punch, I'd have either checked very thoroughly, or more likely taken the easy way out and not posted at all. This is turning into way more of a time sink than I can deal with right now.

      Nor am I ordering you to not post as an AC. I'm well aware I have no means of enforcing such an order, and wouldn't do it in any case. I'd have a really serious ethics problem with that. It just makes it easier to keep postings straight, when you're following a thread, if usernames are used. It's a politeness thing, like NOT SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS.

      "Your OS just does not do as well as Microsoft offerings, period, & YOU KNOW IT!"

      No, I don't. I know they've made a lot of progress. For example, their Web server is no longer a source of what seemed like weekly holes for quite some time. Eventually, they got enough heat that they had to fix that service, and they've largely done that. They took a lot of heat about buffer overflows, and now they're apparently coming along nicely with code sweeping tools to address that issue. Not a run-time system--this is a true code-sweeper.

      I just wish they would do this sort of thing before they were forced into it. They're generating tons of distrust by doing that. Even amongst some very competent Windows developers and admins that I know. It's not like I know two people, and they're both complete Penguinistas. Long-term, this can't be good for them.

      Personally, I hope their code-sweeping tools get amazingly good, very fast, and come into widespread use. Better for overall network health, protection of user's confidential data, etc. It would also generate more effort along corresponding lines in the Open Source world. It's good for everyone, and MS is more than welcome to any whatever good press the garner from it, IMHO.

      In fact, I've just tried to give them some, with a link, and came up empty in a quick google. This has been in the news within the last couple of weeks. Maybe you can find it.

      Again, none of this is meant as a personal attack or challenge. I think that we can agree that if the discussion devolves into a flame-war, it's no longer useful?

      --
      What you do with a computer does not constitute the whole of computing.
    11. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by VENONA · · Score: 1

      I'm all done apologizing. It doesn't seem to have helped.

      BTW, I'm not a network admin. But I have enough sense to listen to them, not trash them. They're in the trenches every day, and have valuable insights. Sometimes the critical bit of info you need. Thank $DEITY not all coders came from your ranks, and now feel that they are somehow above them. In fact, *none* of the better coders I know have your attitude.

      To make it very clear, I do code. In a dozen languages or so. You accuse me of not knowing much about security. Well, that's relative. There's always someone better, and you have to plan for that, in case they're a Bad Buy. But I have to wonder how you can be competent. More than one protocol has been broken because the API docs did not match what was actually seen on the wire, and network tools are valuable.

      To avoid shouting in The Great Runes, let me just quietly state that you're not as cluefull as you imagine.

      I'm pretty much done with this thread. Others will judge whether there's anything influential about it. There's certainly nothing important here, despite the fact that you seem to be all wound up about it. It's not going to change minds or anything. It's just Slashdot--the One True Home of religious arguments.

      --
      What you do with a computer does not constitute the whole of computing.
    12. Re:I believe it: OS' are getting solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "My take is that Linux has fewer of them, and they tend to be fixed more quickly--particularly the remote root exploits." - by VENONA (902751) on Wednesday November 23, @01:50PM

      You seem to think that remote exploits, EXPLICITLY REMOTE ones, are the only threat.

      What about the tons of local threat exploits possible that are still unpatched on Linux?

      The reason I ask is simple - the topic of this post/thread is about application level exploits. The "local" ones are just as dangerous and I will go into WHY:

      E.G.-> Once you get ahold of an app that has for instance what we spoke about, say via RPC or MailSlots over IP, then a buffer overflow possible in it, and the user logged onto the system you are attacking is using it (such as IE, since you pointed it out) under his current logon session user-context, then that 'local exploit' becomes a remoteable one... this is diff. than doing the typical buffer overflow attack, but works JUST THE SAME.

      This is WHY this topic in this thread here is very important imo. It can illustrate techniques like these is why & warn others about them & starts to clue others into the "WHY" of why OS' need patches, as well as the applications that ride ontop of them to have themselves run.

      APK

  6. hope you're kidding. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you got a link on that? hope you aren't serious.

  7. Symantec by mysqlrocks · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The SANS Institute's Internet Storm Center recorded a sharp spike in Internet scans for systems running the Veritas BackupExec software, which is now sold by Symantec, after a crop of high-risk holes were announced in June, according to Johannes Ullrich, CTO of SANS ISC.

    That must be embarrassing for a company that sells security products themselves.

    1. Re:Symantec by someone1234 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That must be embarrassing for a company that sells security products themselves.

      No, that must be profitable.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    2. Re:Symantec by FukYa · · Score: 1

      Over the past six months I have seen several customer computers coming into our shop for repair which all had infected/disabled anti-virus programs running in the task bar. At first it was shocking and ironic to see this. Now it is just plain funny.

  8. Link to list by UnderAttack · · Score: 5, Informative

    the actual top 20 list can be found here: http://www.sans.org/top20

    --
    ---- join dshield.org Distributed Intrusion Detec
    1. Re:Link to list by ozbird · · Score: 2, Funny

      So, can we expect "getting linked to from slashdot.org" to appear on next year's Top 20 list?

  9. shares? by gcnaddict · · Score: 5, Funny

    " Microsoft shares"

    Microsoft shares? Did I read that right?

    --
    Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
    1. Re:shares? by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      Microsoft shares? Did I read that right?

      I think they meant "chairs".

    2. Re:shares? by daeley · · Score: 1

      Microsoft shares? Did I read that right?

      Yep. And you get one of your own for (at the moment) $27.91. ;D

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    3. Re:shares? by Gamzarme · · Score: 1

      Quite the contrary, Microsoft is only gloating about their shares.

      --
      Pat
  10. You shall not pass! by OffTheLip · · Score: 1

    Crackers need care and feeding. When they can no longer get what they need from maturing operating systems the move on. In other words, nothing to see here. move along.

  11. Coding practices by Dekortage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the article: "You could be the most secure operation in the world, but if you have applications that were developed using bad coding practices, you're open to exposure," said Braunstein.

    While this is true, it is also possible that software developed with good coding practices can still have vulnerabilities -- because some things you just can't predict or determine. All you need to do is overlook one itty bitty thing and it becomes a weak link, but I still wouldn't call it "bad coding practices".

    --
    $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    1. Re:Coding practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I disagree, that's like saying an airplane will fall out of the sky if you forget one little thing.

      You know how the people who make airplanes avoid this type of situation? They double-check. They triple-check. They fire people who can't do a good job and hire ones who can. They actually, you know, *try*. Can you honestly say the same thing for the average coder?

      If you have a network app, and it accepts a finite language of bytes, just how hard is it to secure this? Not very hard. Either you can do it, or your app is too complex, and you need to simplify it.

      I don't think software with security holes should *ever* be "the norm". That's a dangerous way of thinking. It just makes software worse and worse. I have no problem with calling any software with holes the result of "bad coding practices". Including my own.

      Every single time a flaw is discovered, it's a failure. It's not business as usual. Just because it happens a lot in our industry doesn't change that.

    2. Re:Coding practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ...it is also possible that software developed with good coding practices can still have vulnerabilities -- because some things you just can't predict or determine.

      WTF?

      You show me code that the output of which can't be predicted or determined, and I'll show you evidence of a bad coding practice.

      Code may get complex, but it's not fucking voodoo.

    3. Re:Coding practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While this is true, it is also possible that software developed with good coding practices can still have vulnerabilities -- because some things you just can't predict or determine. All you need to do is overlook one itty bitty thing and it becomes a weak link, but I still wouldn't call it "bad coding practices".

      That depends on how you actually write your software. If your software acts in undefined ways for certain input, it's a bug, otherwise it's merely a design choice and you should have enumerated that possibility. For instance, if you perform a TCP/IP session with a remote peer, all data that is received can cause the program to behave in certain ways. Enumerate those possibilities rigorously, e.g. such that there are no unaccounted for possibilities. Just prove that all inputs are handled in one way or another. Error conditions are special case inputs that have to be considered as well. Once you have a fully defined state machine for all interactions, you have a secure program. Nothing short of hardware or operating system failure will cause the software to behave unexpectedly. No one bothers to do the rigorous stuff anymore though...

    4. Re:Coding practices by Billosaur · · Score: 2, Interesting
      All you need to do is overlook one itty bitty thing and it becomes a weak link, but I still wouldn't call it "bad coding practices".

      Bad coding can take on many forms. The single hardest thing to get people to do is sanity-check data. I work in Perl and I swear by the -T switch (taint mode) because it forces me to verify that data passed in from the real world is in fact valid and doesn't contain any surprises. Now mind you, it can lead to some ugly-looking regexs, but if you're writing a CGI that calls for access to a database or activates some internal process, you can't take the risk that someone won't try to force malicious code into it to get it do what they want.

      That said, you can be as thorough as you like, run the code through several evaluations, UAT it to death, and end up overlooking an obvious avenue. It's a good idea to make sure all code that interfaces with the real world gets put through a code review, especially by people who don't work with that code every day. You may not be able to stop everything but you can sure whittle down your vulnerabilities to an insignificant number and make them much easier to fix if they become exploited.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    5. Re:Coding practices by Dekortage · · Score: 1

      You show me code that the output of which can't be predicted or determined, and I'll show you evidence of a bad coding practice.

      Did I say the output of code couldn't be predicted? I just said "some things" can't be predicted -- because your software will be used in ways or environments or in conjunction with things completely outside your frame of reference. And while all your output may be perfectly valid, there may be vulnerabilities that never existed in your sandbox, in fact should not be possible, but exist nonetheless.

      --
      $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    6. Re:Coding practices by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      It seems to me like the biggest problem is not bounds-checking arrays. That's bad coding.

    7. Re:Coding practices by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      You know how the people who make airplanes avoid this type of situation? They double-check. They triple-check. They fire people who can't do a good job and hire ones who can.

      As one who is currently building and airplane, I'd like to say that this is only Step 1.

      Step 2. You devise back-up systems, or design the system so that a failure is contained and won't matter. The electric trim system is backed up by a manual trim system. If the alternator fails, you have enough battery to run at least 3hours (time required to exhaust all your fuel).

      Step 3. You build crittical systems so that they CAN'T break, regardless of what you must give up. My main wing spar is designed to withstand full elevon deflection at maximum maneuvering speed with a 50% reserved. I could land with another airplane on my turtleback, and my landing gear would survive.

      Step 4. You train the pilot not to do stupid things. Full elevon deflection at maximum dive speed is placed in the "Stupid Pilot Tricks" category for a reason. You don't do aerobatics in a Utility category plane for a reason. You don't use Microsoft products for a reason.

      Software shipped with gaping security holes shouldn't be the norm any more than airplanes with cracked spars coming off the assembly line. But they do ship with issues. The FAA has a whole beaucracy set up to correct any problems found. Lycoming just lost a lawsuit caused by a change in the metal uses to make crankshafts for their engines (went to a softer metal to make machining them easier). The cranks were weak and broke on running engines. Caused a lot of heartache for small carriers that had their livelihood grounded for months on end. But this isn't considered the norm.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  12. In other news... by pmike_bauer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sony, looking to expand its product line, is selling the new $sys$Attack package to hackers.

    Sharp criticism for this product inspired Sony to offer $sys$CounterAttack, $sys$Peekaboo, and $sys$Shields to private induhviduals and security experts.

    A $sys$spokes-person for Sony, who wishes to remain anonymous, says these products are the precurser to the $sith$ branded products that will ensure peace and justice in the galaxy.

    --
    I read /. for the (Score:-1, Conservative) comments.
    1. Re:In other news... by spacefiddle · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Clearly he means to remain $sys$anonymous, right?

      As much as I laughed at your post, i remembered that "microsoft and symantec were consulted to ignore the rootkit," meaning they knew damn well what it was and their lawyers advised them to feign ignorance for fear of fisticuffs with Sony.

      Now Microsoft and Symantec are going to hang out together and tell us what the new threats are? I wish I could be there to voice concerns over the "private backroom deal for corporate interests" attack vector. It's an old one, but it's only getting bigger.

      If you really want to see how bad it is, consider the above then read aticles such as this one
      http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1884677,00.as p
      and note the wording. Oh, Microsoft is now "concerned," are they? As of the 9th or so when the back really hit the lash? What pathetic public posturing they've perfected. But the various news sites report this - you can find a dozen easy with identical copy, from the 9th and 10th - with no comment on their earlier complicity. They couch it terms of "not sure what kind of threat," instead of "not sure which way the wind is blowing" or "how little they can get away with doing" or "stabbing their buddies in the back to damage-control the PR angle."

      Microsoft and Symantec know, do nothing, then pretend to be "concerned" when the pressure grows. F4I screams and points at Symantec, "But but but they said it wasn't malware when we asked!" Sony has done nothing wrong, just ask 'em. The RIAA, meanwhile, as we all i'm sure have read by now, realized its Stupid Statement Quota wasn't met this month and came out to spew some nonsensical gibberish about All Our PCs Will Belong To Them.

      It's too soon to declare this a Victory of the Blogs over the Giants, as some euphorically have. The spin continues, and even the short-term promises of those involved have yet to be fully imped.

      It's interesting to note how all the players here point fingers at all the others for the responsibility, while, say, wielding the Australian legal system to hold Kazaa's creators and maintainers responsible for every past, present and potential user of the software.

      This is a significant ground gain, no question. But that's when it's time to press the attack, not sit back and congratulate each other how we stuck it to the man. It's time to get legislation changes and public awareness that WILL stick, and force the issue of equal enforcement that will demonstrate all current and planned forms of DRM and the DCMA as undesireable, impractical, unenforceable crap. It's buggy, hole-ridden, crap legislation like the code of this damn rootkit.

  13. Hey! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! by yagu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I kind of see this ongoing "reporting" on internet security much like the Global Warming issue. There's lots of coverage, lots of angst, but it doesn't seem to generate any or enough action to proactively prevent eventual disaster (not making any endorsement or criticism about the Global Warming debate, btw).

    There isn't a day that goes by where there isn't yet another major publication with yet another major story about yet another major security glitch with yet another major application from yet another major vendor. Frustrating.

    In comparison and contrast to the GW issue, however, I think it's empirically clear the threat is real and eventually there will be (but I hope not) some catastrophic event with the internet. Yet the IT world strolls along day to day, without much really actively happening to prevent serious down-the-road problems. I attribute that partially to:

    • Microsoft and their global domination of IT and their abysmal track record around security. Microsoft has proclaimed loudly their ongoing dedication to improving and eventually fixing their security flaws but there is little to show for their efforts. Microsoft, however, has not suffered greatly from this.
    • The complementary side, or the "consumers". I don't blame them as they see the world typically today through Microsoft colored glasses. They don't know of many alternatives, they don't know much about alternatives of which they're aware, and they don't much care because, "Nobody ever got fired for choosing Microsoft." (Remember when that was IBM?)

    No solutions here -- keep nudging clients, friends, consumers to try alternative potentially "better" IT solutions, maybe it WILL get better before a major catastrophe... sigh.

  14. Yes, but I'm safe by punxking · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft shares the spotlight this year with Symantec Corp., Cisco Systems Inc., Oracle Corp. and others

    Thank goodness I'm protecting my well-patched XP system with Norton and a Linksys router, so I'm safe!
    This levee is rock-solid baby!

    --
    You can have my cynical agnosticism when you pry it from my cold, dead logic.
  15. Get the actual report here by hal9000(jr) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    SANS Top 20, November 22, 2005 is here.

    This is the first year that they are pulling out specifically application and network devices/software. However, to anyone who reads Bugtraq, Full Disclosure, or VulnWatch, this is incredibly old news.

    I suspect that the new attention is partly due to marketing and partly due to better tracking facilities by ISC.

  16. Seems pretty generic by jimmyhat3939 · · Score: 1
    How is this list even really an annual top 20? They just list off the standard set of security deficiencies to be expected when using each platform. I was expecting something with a little more specificity to help me understand how things are changing.

    Nice to see, though, that the only Unix problems they talk about are misconfigurations. This isn't really accurate, but nice to see anyway.

    --
    Free Conference Call -- No Spam, High Quality
  17. What about Chinese attacks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've had various Chinese hosts hammering on my SSH door for at least seven months with no end in sight. I understand that it isn't a "sexy worm" but rather, a simple brute force password guessing attack but, I rarely see any mention of it anywhere.

    Who's behind these attacks and what's being done to put an end to them? I'm tired of seeing Slashdot headlines about "poor Chinese people behind the Great Firewall" when they don't seem to be having any trouble hammering on my SSH door.

    1. Re:What about Chinese attacks? by alan.briolat · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is, I see people complain about these all of the time, but I don't get any of them. I don't respond to pings, my SSH is on a non-standard port, and I allow public-key authentication only.

      Over the past couple of days however, I have been watching my firewall logs, and 99.8% of dropped packets are from the Middle East or Asia. Out of those they seem to be split 10/90 - 10% are spam that take advantage of the messenger service in Windows, and the other 90% are worms targeting exploits found in Microsoft products, most of them being NetBIOS and MS SQL Server.

      Of course, the messenger service and NetBIOS are 'features', and nobody in their right minds runs an unpatched MS SQL server, right? Well, my firewall says there are a lot of people not in their right minds about.

      --
      I swear we should be allowed to give mod points to sigs... "-1, Offtopic"
    2. Re:What about Chinese attacks? by McCarrum · · Score: 1

      http://fail2ban.sourceforge.net/ is my friend, make it yours.

    3. Re:What about Chinese attacks? by spacefiddle · · Score: 1

      "I'm tired of seeing Slashdot headlines about "poor Chinese people behind the Great Firewall" when they don't seem to be having any trouble hammering on my SSH door." Fat, stupid, rich Americans go abroad and piss people off. Therefore, all Americans must be fat, stupid and rich. Do we see the fallacy here? They *aren't the same people,* guy. I don't want to shock you or anything, but I hear China has a fairly good-sized population! More seriously, tho, realize that like any good Comcast or Roadrunner or Formerly Known As AT&T Broadband cable zombie knows, rather than some Vast Asian Conspiracy being in place, they get owned&operated like anyone else... and with such perfect scapegoats as "OMGazncrackers!" they are an attractive host to redirect attacks via. You might legally request and get the server logs from some machine in England that was taken over and used to stage attacks from. But from China? Hahahahahah! Good luck.

    4. Re:What about Chinese attacks? by myov · · Score: 1

      Not only SSH, but also various web attacks. I'm seeing everything from blog hits to at least 30 variations of PhpMyAdmin. This is on a server that runs neither (and is, in fact, Zope behind Apache).

      --
      I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
    5. Re:What about Chinese attacks? by micheas · · Score: 1

      Strange most of mine come from Europe,

      Guess it depends on the net block you are on.

      I have heard that most attacks orginate in the US. and use other servers as proxies. But I have no real evidence.

    6. Re:What about Chinese attacks? by graemecoates · · Score: 3, Informative

      On linux, I use iptables with some rate limiting rules on "NEW" connections to only allow x number of connections per y minutes from any host:

      # setup recent state list
      /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -i eth0 -m state --state NEW -m recent --name SSHLIST --set
      # hitcounter rule - send to DUMP table if matching
      /sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -i eth0 -m state --state NEW -m recent --name SSHLIST \
      --update --seconds 600 --hitcount 4 -j DUMP

      That pretty much stops any brute force attacks dead after 3 connections.

      Of course, you can set up prior permit rules to allow access from known hosts at any rate if need be, and if you users screw up logging in, it's easy to remove them from the block list if it's really urgent (they could also wait 10 minutes):

      echo "-123.45.67.89" > /proc/net/ipt_recent/SSHLIST

    7. Re:What about Chinese attacks? by Jump · · Score: 1

      There is a rather good tool available here: http://www.hexten.net/sw/pam_abl/ I think it is already in the 'extras' list of fedora (if you use that). The connection actually doesn't get dropped, so the attacker does not know if his 'guess' was actually processed. It can protect all pam authorized services.

  18. Re:Hey! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! by hal9000(jr) · · Score: 1

    You are wrong on both counts and you are spreading FUD.

    The global warming threat is far from confirmed. There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And there have been catastrophic events to the Internet (not including the AOL invasion (ok, karma whore cheap shot. Laugh, it's supposed to be funny)). Remember Slammer, Melissa, and a handful of other fast moving worms that took out large portions of the network for several hours at a time? That was pretty catastrpohic. However, let's also remember that those events were pretty much mitigated within a day or two.

    About the only thing that is really going to threaten the "Internet" is taking out the NAPs.

  19. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? by RedLaggedTeut · · Score: 1

    Embarrasment, maybe for a time - but if hackers attack security software instead of other apps, maybe it means that security software actually works in protecting these.

    --
    I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
    1. Re:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? by mysqlrocks · · Score: 2, Informative

      but if hackers attack security software instead of other apps, maybe it means that security software actually works in protecting these

      Interesting theory but the product in question, Veritas BackupExec, is not a security product. To Symantec's credit this is a software product they purchased but it still has the Symantec name on it.

  20. Re:Hey! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! by yagu · · Score: 1

    I think if you'd read my post, you'd see I explicitly stated:

    not making any endorsement or criticism about the Global Warming debate, btw

    I was merely mentioning the behavior of the general populace is similar around both ongoing debates.

    As for your contention that the internet catastrophe's have already happened, you pointed out some things that created inconvenience for many, but the net effect of those "events" were hardly catastrophic as you astutely pointed out in your next (but contradicting your point) statement:

    However, let's also remember that those events were pretty much mitigated within a day or two.
  21. Time the attack shifted to the CEO's office by FishandChips · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These bulletins are extremely helpful in their wealth of detail but they also give a misleading impression. The impression is that "vulnerabilities" are like the weather and beyond all human control.

    One way of reducing the risk of vulnerabilities is to impress on those who'd exploit them that they are highly likely to be caught and if caught will get shitcanned bigtime. I'd wager that the top 100 bad boys in Europe and the USA could be put out of action in a week with a combination of legal moves and political lobbying. It always puzzles me why the combined weight of the IT industry and all its billions are completely unable to do this. Maybe they figure that if you've already got the reputation of a dung-encrusted fly you won't sink any lower if you look the other way, sigh and pass the buck to the little guy at the end of the chain while getting on with the day job of busting grannies for drm violations and trying to patent air.

    I'm grateful for these reports from SAN and others. They remind me that IT industry deserves no support at all until it is prepared to take responsibility for the consequences it creates.

    --
    Las qué passoun
    tournoun pas maï
    1. Re:Time the attack shifted to the CEO's office by Heembo · · Score: 1

      The impression is that "vulnerabilities" are like the weather and beyond all human control.

      I think this is one of the messages that SANS is trying to get out - that these vulnerabilites are TREATED like weather by many companies and are NOT controlled in a systematic way.

      So, SANS releases a very famous list of the "top 20 volnerabilities" this quarter - its a well thought out and well researched list. I think your beef is unjustified, I say with respect.

      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
  22. SANS by Heembo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    SANS is pretty hard core, and they do not say such things lightly.In fact, SANS is well know for pissing on ANYONE who is insecure, politics be damned. SANS has made a LOT of industries upset at them, and that is exactly why I trust them for security news and advice. Plus, their training classes (security centric) are the best in the industry. If you want a happy-feel-good company, go elsewhere, SANS does not play nice. If you want the best security info, SANS news and training is THE BEST.

    --
    Horns are really just a broken halo.
    1. Re:SANS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, if you've dealt with them, SANS is a marketing-driven company with its eye on the bottom line, not that there's anything wrong with that. They are not an altruistic organization that operates in the pure public interest, though they present themselves that way.

      They're a good source of security information, but not the best or only one.

    2. Re:SANS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      from this guy's resume:
      Director of Software Development, Director of Vendor Relations, Instructor SANS Institute
      August 2004-August 2005 (ongoing advisory relationship)

      Provide technical guidance and support to web team. Review and participate in business analysis. PHP/MySQL programming for Vendor Relations (portal.sans.org/vendor) and Online Training departments (www.sans.org/online). Lead for corporate sales team (sales are up 33% this year)...

      Totally objective about SANS though I'm sure.

    3. Re:SANS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am posting this anonymously for good reason. SANS' information may be good in some aspects, but is an extremely dishonest, lying, cheating company. Watch out.

  23. Disable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I've had various ... hosts hammering on my SSH door ... a simple brute force password guessing attack.

    Who's behind these attacks and what's being done to put an end to them?

    I don't know (or much care) who is behind these attacks, but there's a simple and very effective solution for you. Just turn off password-based SSH authentication, and enable only the public-key method. It's simple to configure and use, and nobody even bothers to attempt a brute force attack against the huge key space. You'll see those dictionary attempts drop from thousands to zero immediately.

  24. There is a huge unaddressed problem here... by Gordo_1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most of the security establishment is focused on patching holes *after* they're discovered. This goes for application/product vendors as well as the security companies that are tasked with protecting those assets. The reasoning goes something along the lines that the sooner you patch your systems, the sooner you are safe from the "bad guys".

    The problem is that many of the vulnerabilities have been sitting there for YEARS before they're discovered by the establishment. Take Blaster for example... how long was that vulnerability present in shipping product before it was disclosed by Microsoft? Try nearly 7 years. Of course, only a few short weeks after this disclosure, the worm propagated. So, how long were blackhats exploiting the vuln before the disclosure? We'll probably never know. How many other "undiscovered" vulnerabilities have been exploited prior to the vendor acknowledging the vulnerability? Dunno, but I suspect it ain't just a handful. How about yesterday's IE proof of concept remote root exploit that works just as well against a fully patched Windows XP SP2 as it does against Windows 2000? You think any signature or "behavior"-based IDS/IPS can even detect this sort of thing 0-day? I'm willing to bet money on the fact that they can't.

    See here for a fun new way to run Calc.exe on your Windows box:
    http://www.computerterrorism.com/research/ie/ct21- 11-2005

    So long as vendors remain profit motivated and focused on short-term competitiveness, they will never adequately address the software quality issue. Unexposed vulnerabilities are ripe picking for blackhats, while vendors and the security establishment continue to address the reactive post-vulnerability disclosure space.

  25. Correlates with earlier research by QuantGuy · · Score: 1

    This correlates with research published by others earlier this year. [Disclaimer: I know the author.]

  26. A different view by Gyorg_Lavode · · Score: 1
    I take a different view on this. Attackers started with the easiest, most common target(s) and are just moving down the list. The OS is the most widespread type of software easily attackable but the ease of attack has decreased to the point where it is greater payoff to attack the next software on the list. At which point they will spend a few years cleaning up and the attacks will keep moving.

    What worries me is the ability of attackers to do real-time attacks on a service. To hit a system that they know very little about and create zero-days in near real time. That is where things really become dangerious because attackers can then, once a target is chosen, attack the very uncommon software on it and still have reasonable payoff.

    --
    I do security
  27. attack shift? or change in strategies? by theCat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The hardware and IOS vulns may not be entirely new, but the *interest* in them probably is. We've gone from recreational hacking that produced interesting viruses to organized crime looking at ways to make money. When the mob gets involved, you can bet they'll take any route they can, all the time.

    IMO hardware vulns are best used to extort businesses, and are no good for terrorism. The DOS, which used to be seen as a tool for revenge, is now used as a tool for extortion. Being able to shut down some business' router, and keep it down, is in the end far more effective than trying to build a small army of bots to packet flood the same router. Master Sun Tzu reminds us: "Therefore those who win every battle are not skillful... those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all."

    That's the science of Internet Warfare.

    --
    =^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
  28. argh by spacefiddle · · Score: 1

    I apologize to all the eyes that were harmed from trying to read my previous comment. In penance I shall now cross mine 'til they stay that way like my mother warned me they would.

  29. I heard . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    . . . Sony was attacking Shift do you can't bypass their DRM . . .

  30. Where would we be without them? by TropicalCoder · · Score: 0

    Imagine all the thousands of exploits that have been found (and corrected) by now in browsers, operating systems, and applications, with still no end in sight. We are so fortunate that the vast majority of exploits in this past decade were not more sinister and destructive in nature, when they easily could have been so. Because of the efforts of thousands of hackers looking mostly to make a name for themselves, at least we have learned a tremendous amount about computer security in the last decade.

    I ask - where would we be right now without them?

    Our computers and software would be so full of holes that a concerted attack by a seriously hostile enemy could bring civilization to it knees. How much would have cost if we had had to pay engineers to debug our (collective) software to bring it to the level of security it is at now? In our annoyance with hackers, we must never forget our indebtedness to them for having made our security stronger than it would ever have been without them.

    I am sure this must have been considered before, but why don't we focus the energies of hackers into constructive directions, instead of criminalizing them? Most hackers that have been arrested seem to be just kids looking for fame and attention. Putting them in jail isn't going to solve the problem, only drive it deeper underground.

    I suggest instead that a large fund be established via a tax on big software companies or even paid into by governments to reward hackers for finding vulnerabilities, perhaps in specially set up target machines on the internet where appropriate. There could be an annual awards ceremony, with big ca$h prizes for the best of the best. A huge network of white hats could arise and contribute their ideas on how to prevent other forms of threats such as phishing and other social engineering methods, and how to counteract the real criminals. It just seems to me that if we are all working together, we can beat these problems.

    Imagine the day when a hacker can feel pride in his justly rewarded contribution to society rather than just in how many machines he has managed to knock out.

  31. Re:Hey! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! by JWtW · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Yet the IT world strolls along day to day, without much really actively happening to prevent serious down-the-road problems."

    You say this as though there is some dereliction of duty among the IT folks. There are people (http://www.antiphishing.org/, http://www.openantivirus.org/) working on these things. In their spare time too--right? It's quite apparent that your gripe is with M$ and the the general population that has bought into the monopoly, but there's only so much you can do with 6 billion Elvis fans, and the greedy bastards that want to exploit them. I'm sure that most geeks would like to blow them off the planet, but like you, there's no "real" solution among them. I don't think that they (the IT world) should take the hit for an insurmountable task.

    You've equated the catastrophies iminent to the internet with global warming. I can see the correlation, however the internet is fairly new compared to the first time we put CO into the atmosphere. Man's presence on Earth is undergoing a huge learning curve, as are man's dealings with the internet. It wasn't long ago that huge corporations were destroying the planet in the name of profit, and the good of human life, but eventually the people that saw the wrong of it came out of the woodwork, and protested. It's still not right, but it's headed in the right direction--I hope. Now, the ones that see the wrong of the "inter-connected" world, and all of the bad that it can inflict are starting to come out of the woodwork. Exponentially so, as is the pace of technology.

    The doctor's kids are always sick, the mechanic's car is always broke. Does this mean we are doomed to be ill (bird-flu notwithstanding :-)), or that our cars won't work? No, we are just living the human life, and sometimes--cough...9/11--it takes a catastophy to put things to work....

    BTW I'm not an IT guy, I'm just an aerospace weenie that is just as scared of the status-quo as you are. Yet I do have a little faith in the fact that, while most people need a little nudging, a lot of people are paying attention (like me--I carry my own disk with FireFox, AdAware, and OpenOffice--and spread it to anyone that listens).

  32. Nothing is perfect. by antdude · · Score: 1

    All hardware and software products have flaws. Show me who made a perfect product that never had problems. The important part is how fast and the support of fixing those issues.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  33. Attack Shit? by TheStonepedo · · Score: 1

    I can't be the only one who misread the title and thought the flaming-bag-of-poo-ding-dong-run had been made into an online exploit.

    --
    I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
  34. Re:Hey! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! by Vellmont · · Score: 1


    In comparison and contrast to the GW issue, however, I think it's empirically clear the threat is real and eventually there will be (but I hope not) some catastrophic event with the internet.

    Well, I'd say we've either already had those catastrophes, or the Internet isn't vulnerable to what we think of as a catastrophe. When I think of catastrophe, I think of something that happens in a short period of time and causes wisespread damage that takes months to cleanup.

    So.. either the various virus outbreaks, phishing attacks, and DOS attacks on major websites are all catastrophes, or the internet as a whole isn't really vulnerable to major catastrophes. What's currently happening is lots of minor catastrophes every day.

    So, what I'm getting at is the model you should be looking at is a disease model, not a catastrophe model. Phishing, viruses, DOS attacks are all more like diseases that different parts of the internet develop.

    --
    AccountKiller
  35. SANS needs to get their game on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to work for this company in a "high level position".. at least that's what they claimed when I started! This company is so out of touch, it shouldn't surprise you to know that the so-called "Top 20" is just recycled from old net detritus you can find anywhere. I mean, is anyone really surprised that M$ software is vulnerable? C'mon! What's much more vulnerable than Microsoft are the poor people who actually volunteer for companies like SANS when the highly paid principals build themselves multimillion-dollar homes in Hawaii.