The Xbox 360 Launch Examined

A few days have gone by now, and more details of the 360's launch are becoming available. Gamasutra reports that, as expected, there were far too few units of the new console to meet demand. In one place, in fact, a pitched fight broke out when it became clear that not everyone waiting in line would get a unit. Additionally, the occasional glitch or crash has been reported in several locations online. This primarily seems to be the result of an overheating power supply. Despite these issues, and mixed reactions to launch titles, overall consumer reaction seems to be generally positive.

Comments

Consumer Reaction?

[Avacar]

Sure, consumer reaction will be positive... they're the people who bought the system. I sincerely hope that those who paid for it are enjoying it, otherwise they've wasted a lot of money.

For the rest of us, though, the current Slashdot poll alone shows that most of the voting slashdot community, at least, will not be getting an Xbox 360. I'm sure my reaction to spending $400+ would be to say I'm pleased with it too... I just don't plan to do that. So, consumer reaction? Generally Positive. Overall Xbox 360 Public Image? TBD.

Re:Consumer Reaction?

[rednuhter]

I am not sure the Slashdot community is respective of the console buying community judging by the percentage of posts on GAME marked articles vs the main stream geek culture topics.
That said how many people are going to vote (in a fun poll) for "NEVER" just becuase its Microsoft ?
I am most did but I definitely getting one early next year after the price drops.

Re:Consumer Reaction?

[Vo0k]

getting one early next year after the price drops.

and the modchip is released.

(that way they will actually cost Microsoft money...)

Re:Consumer Reaction?

[Anonymous Coward]

For me the 'Never' choice was not correct but represented the best of the options; with the XBox 360 I am not planing on getting one unitl there are 5 games that I want on it and the price is $200 or less; I would say the same thing about the PS3 except that (if backwards compatibility being is as good as they claim) I only want to wait for a price drop because I never owned a PS2 and there are dozens of PS2 games I would like to play.

In fact the only system I am planning on buying at launch is the Revolution (assuming the price is reasonable which, knowing Nintendo, it probably will be). Being that I no longer have my NES,SNES, or N64 (and there are still games I would play on them) that alone almost covers the potential entry fee, throw on top of that the unique gameplay experiances that Nintendo (and some key third parties) will deliver and you have reason enough to buy it.

Re:Consumer Reaction?

[hillg3]

Wow, actually using a slashdot poll for factual information, that takes balls.

Re:Consumer Reaction?

[KDR_11k]

I voted never because the XBox was meant for a demographic that doesn't include me and so far I don't see the 360 change that. I mean, the big launch titles are racing games! I still have my fill of racing games for the decade from Burnout 2.

Re:Consumer Reaction?

[drsquare]

Slashdot isn't representative of the population, it's a heavily anti-MS skewed place. Not to mention the poll is susceptable to ballot-stuffing.

So basically...

[sl8r]

"Despite these issues, and mixed reactions to launch titles, overall consumer reaction seems to be generally positive."

So basically, kinda sucky, but not as sucky as expected?

generally positive?

[Iriel]

Yeah, I've heard the crash reports too. Some of them sound down right dubious. Someone even claims that they got the same problem after exchanging their system. Wow, what an utter load of BS. Even still, most of the crash reports I've read have been problems relating to the hard drive rather than the power supply.

While the system is tempting and all, "generally positive" isn't enough to make it worth the effort to make my way through the mobs with a pitchfork. I'll wait to see if there's enough errors to warrant a recall, and then see how well the games work/play. After the world is a little more sane, I'll think about buying one unless PS3 starts tempting me.

Re:generally positive?

[shawb]

So this seems to be about in line for tax return season?

Re:generally positive?

[rAiNsT0rm]

Two defective units to the same person is NOT "dubious" or "B.S." there have been TWO cases just like this at the Gamestop near my home. They had three systems that folks who pre-ordered could not be reached, and have had 7 returned... of the three extras they had two went to people with problems on their first 360... both came back AGAIN. The guys at the store thought it was user error and even swapping power cords/HDD's/and trying brand new games they truely didn't work.

This is a lot bigger than MS is letting on and will only continue to grow especially on Christmas day as many of the current release are still sealed awaiting Christmas day for first use.

Re:generally positive?

[Iriel]

While I may have been rash to immediately rule out the possibility of exchanges for systems that others failed to pick up, some of the claims online are still sounding rather shady while others seems all too plausible. At first I wondered if MS was keeping the other 3/4 of the shipment in stock just to build hype and frenzy over limited supply, but the crash reports have made me wonder if they were really doing a controlled test for recall rather than deal with it (if it happened) in a giant mess with people feeling like it was putting the hurt on their holiday gaming. This way, if they have to recall, they can excercise damage control.

Re:generally positive?

[falcon5768]

considering I know at least 5 people around me (friends and co-workers) who all had their 360 either fail within 2-3 hours or who couldnt even get them to boot, I have to say I would beleive even the shadiest reports about them currently. And the problems have ranged from the overheating powerbrick complaint to optical and HD failure.

People love to bring up the PS2 optical drive problem to explain it, but even that didnt crop up till 2-3 years after the system had been out. This problem seems widespread and a result of numerous issues.

Re:generally positive?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of them sound down right dubious. Someone even claims that they got the same problem after exchanging their system.

I hate to say it but it is a matter of Probabilities and is not that dubious. Suppose for a second that ~1% of XBox 360s have a problem which would cause them to be returned; this would mean that you'd have a 1% chance of having a defective unit on the first one you get and a 0.01% chance your replacement having the same problem. Assuming 100,000 people bought the system then 1,000 people would have the problem initially, and 10 of them would have the problem on their replacement.

Now if you change the probabilities of an error to 10%, and the number of units sold to 250,000 you would find 2,500 people would have defective replacement systems. (and 250 would have defective 3rd systems, and 25 would have defective 4th systems, and ~2 people would have defective 5th systems).

Now what is the probability of defective and Pseudo-defective units? (Pseudo-defective are units that are broken by the user; I assume some people put their bottom venting XBox 360 on a Top venting Surround Sound reciever inside of an enclosed space [like an entertainment center armoire which are popular with the HD crowd] a thereby producing a toster) I would assume, from the sound of it, that it would be greater than 1%; it could be in the 10% range or higher but I would not bet on that.

Re:generally positive?

[C0rinthian]

Suppose for a second that ~1% of XBox 360s have a problem which would cause them to be returned; this would mean that you'd have a 1% chance of having a defective unit on the first one you get and a 0.01% chance your replacement having the same problem.

Um, bad math. If 1% of consoles are defective, then my first purchase has a 1% chance of being bad. If I replace it, then there is a 1% chance of the replacement being defective. The two events are independant, so the probability is not reduced on subsequent purchases.

Assuming 100,000 people bought the system then 1,000 people would have the problem initially, and 10 of them would have the problem on their replacement.

This is true, but not because of any reduced probability on the replacement being defective. There is simply a smaller sampling population. It's still 1% chance of failure.

Re:generally positive?

[Anonymous Coward]

I phrased it incorectly; I meant that when buying your first system you have a 0.01% probablility of having to replace it twice assuming a 1% defective unit rate.

Re:generally positive?

[Anonymous Coward]

so... you're saying that if I have a blue marble and a red marble, then I still have a 50% chance of pulling a red or blue marble, even after I selected a blue marble on the first pull? Once a marble, or in this case, an Xbox 360, is taken out of circulation, the probability IS reduced.

Yawn.

[rAiNsT0rm]

This has really flopped into a yawner for a lot of folks. Launch titles that can be counted on one hand, and nothing new or exciting except for the token flashy racing title. Add to this the MASSIVE problems, not small scale as MS is stating, and you have a pretty crappy product launch. The average return rate right now of defective units from EB is almost 30% and in some stores nearing 50%... that isn't small scale problems. At a Gamestop near my house they have 7 defective units back right now.

Wow, so maybe people really are starting to realize that it all was just hype and marketing... can you believe it. The funny thing is that no one is touching upon the fact that the Japanese could care even less about the 360... that's a nail in the coffin right there. Also the average Joe is staying away like the plague now with all the coverage of problems. This trumped up "shortage" issue may have been for the best, or else there would be even more pissed off folks and crying kids at Cristmas once they unwrap their broken 360.

I've been saying it all along, and I was right on the money... I'm also no more optimistic that the PS3 will do any better and most likely will have just as many issues. It really is time for a revolution in gaming, greed, money, and marketing have failed lets get back to fun, excitement, and gameplay.

Re:Yawn.

[Threni]

> The funny thing is that no one is touching upon the fact that the Japanese could care even
> less about the 360... that's a nail in the coffin right there.

Really? I thought they weren't that bothered about it, which could be a bit of a problem, at least in the short term.

Re:Yawn.

[CDLewis]

This has really flopped into a yawner for a lot of folks. Launch titles that can be counted on one hand... What type of keyboard do you recommend for any other 36-fingered readers? Add to this the MASSIVE problems, not small scale as MS is stating While I do of course believe everything I read in all-caps, especially on the Intertron, I'd love to see a link to some numbers confirming "MASSIVE" status. Also the average Joe is staying away like the plague now with all the coverage of problems. Average Joe isn't staying away - they simply can't find any units to purchase, working or not. I would wager that most of the non-hardcore crowd (the crowd that wouldn't know what a 'slash dot' was) hasn't even heard of any of the problems with some launch quantities.

Re:Yawn.

[rAiNsT0rm]

If you mean that MS isn't bothered by it... that is purely the face they are putting forward to the media. They know they have lost Japan already and they are scrambling. They really tried to force some "Japanese" content onto the 360, however their efforts have not been even remotely noticed.

I have colleagues in Japan and they even work in the game industry and the response is ice cold. The system is no smaller than an original Xbox in reality, plus now there is the large power brick, no real appealing games, the hardware problems, and the pandering... it isn't cutting it.

MS would never go to the extents they have in Japan if they weren't scared shitless and fully understood the ramifications of failure there. They claimed they really were going to make a big push for Japan, but then the reality was pretty luke-warm.

Re:Yawn.

[rAiNsT0rm]

Not being rude, but have you turned on a TV or radio today? The 360 hardware problems have been covered ad nauseum on just about every media outlet including print. The average person knows.

I personally have been asked by 3 people at the office today if they should worry about the 360 they bought for their kid for Christmas is affected. These are average joe's not /.'ers. No one wants to spend big money on a highly in-demand product that may turn out to be a massive disappointment on the big day. And if there is a problem, there are no replacement units. This is the type of concerns the average person has, and they are well aware.

With all of the negative press by day 2, imagine how much more will hit on Christmas when more are first used! This is a PR nightmare, and is just one more area that was purposely ignored to rush the product. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a complete recall at some point after Christmas.

Re:Yawn.

[ratboy666]

"I would wager that most of the non-hardcore crowd (the crowd that wouldn't know what a 'slash dot' was) hasn't even heard of any of the problems with some launch quantities."

And you would lose.

Last night (Thursday) on the drive home (5:30pm); "special interest" lead story on the All-news radio (you know, the most popular station, especially with the drive-time folk) was about Microsoft and the potential for an XBOX 360 recall due to problems. This would be Toronto, Canada; figure 2 million more people now "know" about the '360 and its issues. I don't know how many times the piece aired -- but since the station works on a 10 minute cycle, could have been 40 times. Fortunately, we were ALSO in the grip of a storm alert, which may have pre-empted a few (but also meant that there may have been more listeners for the other airings -- who knows).

Ratboy

Re:Yawn.

[Threni]

>If you mean that MS isn't bothered by it

No, the Japanese. The OP stated that the Japanese were bothered by the xbox but it's my (and apparantly your) understanding that they're not. That's all.

Re:Yawn.

[Khuffie]

And this 50% return rate figure comes from where exactly, you? I could go around and tell you that everyone I know who purchased a 360 (thats about 10, including me) have never had a problem. Heck, by your 30% return rate figure, at least 3 of us should have had problems, no? Oh wait, guess what, the 4 stores near me that sold 360s have had 0 returns after asking them. Does that prove my argument? I could very well be making that figure up. Last I checked, no store has announced any defective rate, so you can't really go spouting that as hard fact. And wait, launch titles that can be counted on one hand? How many fingers does your hand have exactly? 18? Because that's how many launch titles there actually are, and that's not including the Arcade games you can buy/download/try out. See, if you're trying to make up a figure about the defective rate, at least get the figure people can actually count correct first.

Re:Yawn.

[rAiNsT0rm]

Aww... does somebody have pent up geek rage they need to take out today?

I was making a point about the relatively low release title number, of course there are more than 5 launch titles. Sheesh.

My numbers come from close friends in a number of places, including a manager of an EB a friend at Gamestop, a colleague at MS who is part of the Xbox support team (and gee, he wouldn't know anything), and some early numbers culled from around the internet. I used to be an industry analyst for the PS2, I'm pretty sure I have my shit together.

If you choose to believe different, then do so, by about a week after Christmas the real story/numbers will be out.

Re:Yawn.

[C0rinthian]

I assume then, that if you have your shit together, that you know a sample of 12 units is WAY too small to actually make an accurate assessment of returns.

Yeah, the gamestore got 7/12 returned. Is that concerning? Yeah a bit, but until I see large scale sampling numbers I'm not going to assume 50% of the console run is defective.

Re:Yawn.

[The-Bus]

What happened at your local EB? Out of the dozens of Xbox 360 owners I know, no one is having any problems. One even had "a two-year old dancing on it" when the toddler (possibly now deceased) decided it was a dance pad instead of a console.

The Japanese launch is still a few weeks away. I can't imagine that the 360 would be less well received than the original Xbox, considering the original Gameboy hardware often outsold the Xbox system (this was after GC Color, Advance, and SP were already on the market).

Game library-wise, this launch is far from perfect (Oblivion has moved to March) but when was the last time a launch had so many titles? Sure, most of them appeal to the "regular" Joe Six-Pack gamer (sports titles, racing, FPS) but there's a LOT of games.

I find it difficult to believe that Microsoft will trump Sony in this console war (which is basically just between the two of them), but I don't think this means the end of Microsoft either.

Re:Yawn.

[Blakey Rat]

This has really flopped into a yawner for a lot of folks. Launch titles that can be counted on one hand,

What kind of freaky-ass mutant hand do you have?

Add to this the MASSIVE problems, not small scale as MS is stating,

It's only "massive" because everybody with a defective one is posting it to their blog and every messageboard they can think of. Now I'm not saying that all the consoles are in tip-top shape, but you have to realize that any new product is likely to have a failure rate from 2-5%. The only difference with the Xbox 360 is that there's so much more communication via the internet than there have been in previous years, and so you hear about it more.

The average return rate right now of defective units from EB is almost 30% and in some stores nearing 50%... that isn't small scale problems. At a Gamestop near my house they have 7 defective units back right now.

Citation? Article? Reference? Or are these numbers coming right out of your ass?

The funny thing is that no one is touching upon the fact that the Japanese could care even less about the 360... that's a nail in the coffin right there.

1) It's not even released in Japan, how could you possibly know how they will react to it?

2) Why is this a nail in the coffin? Sure Japan has a lot of game consumers. So does Europe. Why does everybody assume that Japan has to be into a game system for it to be successful? The Atari 2600 was pretty successful, and I'm not sure that was even released in Japan. If anything, I'm glad Microsoft has broken the Japanese chokehold on the entire industry... finally I can buy an American console from an American company with primarily American-developed games. You might not care about that, but I do.

Also the average Joe is staying away like the plague now with all the coverage of problems.

Source? Or is this just more ass-pulling?

If the average Joe is staying away for any reason, it's that you literally cannot buy one for less than $1200 right now.

Next time you write a Slashdot post, you might want to consider putting some facts in it. Or at least labelling your suppositions as such.

Re:Yawn.

[rAiNsT0rm]

I clearly stated that I had a pretty large sampling to come up with my numbers and I also clearly stated that the final numbers will most likely be about 30% affected. I gave a single case that I personally know of that I saw firsthand about the 7/12 to show in some places it is over 50%.

You know damn well what I stated, it was pretty clear.

Re:Yawn.

[rAiNsT0rm]

Wow, who died and made you king of what can and cannot be posted to slashdot. Did you notice you offered NOTHING, you offered no contrary facts, you offered nothing of value at all, all you look like is a whiney bitch.

I have a number of friends and colleagues in Japan. Gee, I have a direct insight to the Japanese popular opinion and it is all about the same... I didn't realize I needed to disclose their names, addresses, phone numbers so you some anonymous /. dork could fact check me. Oh, and by the way to act as if Japan doesn;t matter is the MOST STUPID comment anyone could make, even MICROSOFt has stated time and time again that Japan is their biggest hurdle and the most important. Notice how they built a whole 360 lounge, and hired Japanese dev teams, and are kissing Japanese ass right now? Yeah, Japan doesn't matter... take another hit from your crack pipe.

Obviously sarcasm is lost on you, with the on one hand comment, it was like to make a point at how few launch titles there are.

I've already answered in this thread where the 30% defective number comes from. I'm not arguing the matter, the real numbers will be known soon enough... then you can lick my hairy nut sac.

Sorry I stepped on your fanboy toes with my comments, go back to your parents basement and whack off to midget pr0n.

Re:Yawn.

[Blakey Rat]

Oh, well, with such a mature and intelligent correction to your original post, how could I possibly doubt you? I'm sure anybody who uses the phrase "lick my hairy nut sac" is an expert on console marketing, so I'll just concede this one to you.

Re:Yawn.

[rAiNsT0rm]

You sure got me, I'm so bummed some anonymous internet person doubts me. Wah... dude I could care less, this is /. I'm not here to wow you with my credentials and give a fucking dissertation including footnotes and references.

Re:Yawn.

[KDR_11k]

How many fingers does your hand have exactly? 18?

Five? You can count up to 31 with five fingers.

Re:Yawn.

[Anonymous Coward]

I could go around and tell you that everyone I know who purchased a 360 (thats about 10, including me) have never had a problem. Heck, by your 30% return rate figure, at least 3 of us should have had problems, no?

Actually no, but the question becomes why don't more people study statistics at University?

In order for a statistic to be relevant you would probably want it to be correct within 1% 19 times out of 20; to ensure this you would need a sample size in the thousands. It is absolutely possible that with a sample size of only 10 people you could have no defective units even if the defect rate was 80%, at the same time all 10 people could have defective units even if the defect rate was only 10%. Based on web polls we have an estimate of around 15%, without being able to adjust for how many additional people were surfing those websites because their XBox was broken or how many people (who don't own XBox 360s) influenced the vote (or how they influenced the vote) we can not come up with a reasonable estimate.

Please note: Most people would assume that the error rate would on the poll would increase because of people voting that their system was broken even though they didn't own the system, this may not actual be the case. To explain, the poll was done on the Team XBox forums, an obviously pro-XBox place, and the poll obtained 15% before the story was found by slashdot and other sites; being such a pro-XBox place XBox fanboys could easily start manipulating the poll by voting that they were loving their XBox 360 inspite of the fact that they do not own an XBox 360.

Re:Yawn.

[Breakfast Pants]

"Next time you write a Slashdot post, you might want to consider putting some facts in it. Or at least labelling your suppositions as such."
 
I'm sorry but I didn't see you label "If the average Joe is staying away for any reason, it's that you literally cannot buy one for less than $1200 right now" a supposition. Just because some have gone for that much doesn't mean you can't get it for less, particularly when the average isn't near that. Looks like a case of a Doctor who won't take his own medicine.

Re:Yawn.

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a hurdle doesn't mean it's a massive problem.

games industry = a business = needs consumers = USA+Europe > Japan = Nintendo, Sony and the Japenese stranglehold on the games market can go suck it.

Re:Yawn.

[fishbowl]

>What kind of freaky-ass mutant hand do you have?

I can count to 32 on one hand; more if I assign more than two states to each digit.

Re:Yawn.

[jechidah]

This kind of juvenile counter arguments proves beyond any doubt that you're retarded. Grow up.

Congratulations

[warmcat]

Congratulations are in order to the Xbox 360 PR folks.

A quick search on "360" in Slashdot shows over 150 stories generated in the prime demographic of Slashdot readers.

How we all held our breath for what worldchanging events the Whoragin 360 website "suck in the suckers" campaign might have heralded. And how we were all disappointed -- it was just a PR campain with such vast amounts of money behind it that just for a moment it seemed that a Myst-style tree with Latin -- OMG LATIN -- on it might have held some revelation that would change all our lives!

But no. It was just people in suits selling 'products' for money, same old same old. Customers are just customers, slumped slackjawed consumers that can never contribute, except with their wallet and their time. After a while the customers will evolve into the Eloi while the suit guys are already the Morlocks.

Noting a surfiet of bread, Microsoft cannily decided to provide the circuses.

Re:Congratulations

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not a believer in the concept that 'All press is good press' mainly because it is very difficult to overcome people's initial reactions to things. The interesting thing about the press lead up to (and post) launch is that a large portion of it has been negative. This morning on the news there was a story on the XBox 360's glitches and other problems; there were pictures of melted discs, geeks returning their systems, talk of imposed shortages, and unhappy geeks waiting (and protesting) for their XBox 360 (also they mentioned, incorrectly, that it was the most expensive system ever). I can just imagine that there were similar stories on similar channels through out North America (if not the world). Just think of the Millions of potential customers (who didn't know that Microsoft released a new system) who suddenly see that the company and system are 'crappy'.

Since the SNES, the company that sells the most system isn't about which system is the most powerful or has the best games it is about who has the best image; typically a platform doesn't start getting a lot of exclusive high-quality games until it has a decent lead. The XBox 360's image has a long way to go before it can fully kill the platform but they're off to a awful start. The PR and Marketing department should be ashamed.

Re:Congratulations

[Morinaga]

It's called Capatilism. Microsoft did their job. Slashdot editors also did theirs when they posted stories of interest regarding a highly anticipated tech product. You seem to take some issue with the fact a corporation developed a product, marketed this product and in the end sold that product. The "same old same old" has been practiced in the free market for a very, very long time. It is no different than the ipod, the ISP you use nor Slashdot themselves.

Pray tell, how were we all dissapointed? What exactly did the public relations team for this console do that resulted in such a restrospect of bitterness?

Re:Congratulations

[Blakey Rat]

And wait until the PS3 get closer. It'll have at least as many Slashdot articles, and probably more because I think more Slashdot users are PS2 fans than Xbox fans. It's just pointless griping.

Maybe...

[game kid]

...we might see an apology for such things soon. Then again, maybe not--they are flaunting it as of post time.

At least the monitor's hot--no wait, that was separate...

Re:Maybe...

[rAiNsT0rm]

But you know as well as I that MS will not appologize, in fact they are already playing the deny and downplay game. With some stores seeing close to 50% defective returns and MS still claiming this is "isolated" and "a small number of defects."

I do, however, believe we will see a full recall afte Christmas of the initial product. This is the only option MS has to save face once more and more problems surface.

Re:Maybe...

[Leiterfluid]

You keep using that same 50% rate of return, but you don't specify what it's a percentage of, or where you get your source information.

If one of these stores only got 5 or 10 units, then whoopdee-freakin-do if they have a high percentage of returns. Also, given that there are three gamestops within a mile of each other near where I live, it wouldn't be unreasonable that a unit was purchased at one store, and then returned at another.

Unless you have hard numbers to justify your claims, 61% of your statistics and 13% are made-up.

Re:Maybe...

[rAiNsT0rm]

Well, I used to be an industry analyst so my contacts and information is still very strong. I do personally have very good relationships with my local gaming stores and as I stated one Gamestop has had 7 returned - they only received 12... now could some be from other Gamestops? Sure. I was just giving the numbers and that is very high for any product.

I actually stated that right now the general consensus is about 30% defective. That is still 3 out of 10 and that is not good.

I get my numbers from a number of sources including right from the horses mouth from the managers of a number of large chains. However you slice it, the truth will be known soon as to the final outcome... if you don't like my numbers or think I'm lying for some reason (lie to make friends FTW!) then just sit tight and wait until a few days after christmas and see what happens.

Not worth the cost...

[BeatUpJalopy]

With the way console gaming is going these days, it seems ridiculous to shell out even $400 for a system that will fall behind PC gaming power/graphics in a short amount of time. Besides, most games for consoles these days are either sports or PC ports, and rarely do the ports "port" well. So, why not just put that money into a cusotm-built PC? The game catalog is HUGE and you can "legally" use it for more than just games! Just my opinion...

Re:Not worth the cost...

[Liquidrage]

For $500 you can get a midrange Mobo-CPU-RAM and Video-card. You still need a case and power supply, hard drive, CD-Rom/DVD drive, input devices, and OS. And yes, since we're talking about *games* you're going to be paying for that OS. I'm not even going to bother talking about *pirated* OS saving money, though if you want, there's a few more dollars saved if you don't pay for Windows.

OK, so you have that, I'll assume you have a monitor just as for a console I assume you have a TV. You're probably into the range of $700, and congrats, you've built yourself a mid-range gaming rig that most likely doesn't match the quality of the 360 or what the PS3 will. Your rig will also be outdated in a year or two. Sure, it'll still play the games. Just like the 360 and PS3 will. Just like the Xbox and PS2 do now. But you're not going to be running the current games in all the high-res texture, all graphical options on, big resolution. Let alone doing that for games in a year or two down the road.

I'm all for PC gaming. I play more on my PC then on my Xbox/PS2/Gamecube. And more then the 360 I'll eventually get. And the PS3 I'll eventually get. And Revolution I'll probably get. But the better bang for your buck if all you care about it games, are the consoles. Not the PC's. Hell, the sell you consoles at a loss, and you get games that have been optimized for a very specific set of hardware. The prices drop on them as the technology loses it's "cutting edge" factor. Just as video cards and CPU's do.

Re:Not worth the cost...

[Anonymous Coward]

These posts drive me nuts. I know what you are saying about comparing price, but lets get real here for a second, shall we.

How many people do you think were standing in line, with $500 in their pockets to dump on a game rig, that didn't have a computer at home? Answer, none. So suggesting that a "from scratch" build would be needed is a long way from correct. The fact that spending half that amount on a new video card will give you graphics that the 360 will never be able to, should not be overlooked.

Also consider, how many of these people, standing in line, with $500 to dump on a 360, made the decision that you describe "Well, its either an Xbox 360, or a PC". I'm guessing none.

Lets not gloss over another important point, the 360 is fixed in time. Upgrade CPU. Nope. Upgrade Vid card. Nope. RAM. Nope. How much would it cost you to upgrade your XBox to an XBox360? Same as buying a 360, because you can't upgrade. To upgrade your PC with 2.0Ghz chip, to a 3.0? More or less than the cost of buying a new rig with a 3.0 chip?

When BF2 (or HL2 or whatever new game you like) came out, did you have to throw away your old PC to play it? I didn't. My CPU was still good enough, my vid card was good enough, a little extra RAM, and no problem with the next generation. Funny thing is, the Vid card was an upgrade for the last "next" generation. And the CPU was for the last, last "next" generation. None of those upgrades cost anywhere near what the original XBox, or the 360 cost. In fact all of the upgrades together cost about the same as a 360.

I'm not knocking consoles. I have owned most of them from a 2600 in the early 80's, up to a PS2. But can we stop with this whole "you couldn't build a rig for less" garbage. It only plays out if that rig you built is all bound together in such a way that no changes are possible, ever.

My current PC is a combination of about 4 different configurations from the last few years, swapping out parts as needed to keep up with the games I like. My consoles are in a pile, each one no different than the day I first bought them. Each of them bought to keep up. Not one of them upgradeable to play the most current games (well there was that funky 32 bit adapter for the sega, it was cool, plus you could play Doom). Until they become "historic" they are paper weights.

Re:Not worth the cost...

[Liquidrage]

The fact that spending half that amount on a new video card will give you graphics that the 360 will never be able to, should not be overlooked.

No, your problem that is that is not a fact. In fact, that is wrong. The complete 360 is actually $400, not $500. And half that is $200. $200 buys a x800 Pro. The x800 Pro is not near as powerfull as the ATI card inside the 360. In fact, to get one as powerfull, you're basically paying $300. Which, my gawd, is the price of the 360 without the harddrive. I should'nt have to do your research for you.

Also consider, how many of these people, standing in line, with $500 to dump on a 360, made the decision that you describe "Well, its either an Xbox 360, or a PC". I'm guessing none.

Wrong post. You obviously meant to write that in regards to the post I originally replied to and not my reply, correct? I mean. I'm not the one that brought "get a PC instead" into it.

Lets not gloss over another important point, the 360 is fixed in time. Upgrade CPU. Nope

Let's look at freaking cost. For the cost of ONE SINGLE UPGRADE of a CPU-Mobo-video card in the *mid-range* you buy a complete console.

When BF2 (or HL2 or whatever new game you like) came out, did you have to throw away your old PC to play it? I didn't

No. Just like when BF2 came out my Xbox and PS2 still played it.

But can we stop with this whole "you couldn't build a rig for less" garbage. It only plays out if that rig you built is all bound together in such a way that no changes are possible, ever.

No. Next time get your facts straight. The fact is a $300 console is cheaper then a computer upgrade of mobo-CPU + videocard worth playing games on. You buy it once and that's that. A computer you're spending more then $300 combined on a quality upgrade.

My current PC is a combination of about 4 different configurations from the last few years, swapping out parts as needed to keep up with the games I like.

And I'm 100% sure you would'nt be honest about total cost on your PC expenditures.

You know what is a fact? A console is a cheaper way to get high quality gaming. When they initially come out they are the equivalent of a high end gaming-PC but they cost much less.

Re:Not worth the cost...

[drsquare]

Where the hell do you get a PC for $400 that is guaranteed to be powerful enough to play all the latest games for the next 4-5 years? Without any fucking about putting it together or configuring it?

Re:Not worth the cost...

[mink]

Not all the latest games require a dual core 3 GHZ processor.

For instance The Movies (one of the latest games) claims all you need is a sub GHZ Pentium (800MHZ I think they say).

While thats a bit extreme, not everyone codes only to the latest bleeding edge hardware.

Not just a fight...

[PhilHibbs]

someone got shot in the chest!

Hrm.

[TouchOfRed]

I dont quite understand why in such an anti-microsoft arena, there is a huge amount of xbox360 news(at least 10% of the past weeks news is xbox related, even the polls). Seems everyone scoffs at them every chance they get. Lighten up, its a gaming console. Boy I wish slashdot was around in 1984 when all the NES hype was going down.

Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Enough with the stupid XBox 360 articles already, Zonk!! It's not that important!! You've been posting articles about the bloody launch every day for weeks! Give it a rest!

I won't be participating

[jskline]

I for one consider that anything that rediculous to be fighting over, and general mayhem,... because you have to have a damned video game!;... sheesh. I don't want to know where those gene's came from and don't want my kids associating with the likes of those!

I won't be having one of those in my house. My regular Xbox is problem enough without having to have something like that in there...

Generally positive according to who?

[techstar25]

From the article...
According to Xbox senior product manager Molly O'Donnell,"The vast majority of Xbox 360 owners are having an outstanding experience with their new consoles".
Well, if you can't trust her opinion to be fair and unbiased, who can you trust? The article linked has opinions from three people. Two negative, one positive, and the positive works for Microsoft.

Re:Generally positive according to who?

[Anonymous Coward]

That must mean that 33.333...% of people who have an Xbox 360 must be Microsoft shills, and the other 66.6666...% of people who bought one are busy taking theirs back.

Dream on.

Re:Enough already indeed.

[Song for the Deaf]

(sigh) You're right. A game system developed by one of the largest companies in the world, directly competing with a foreign rival who also happens to be one of the most sucessful consumer electronics companies in history- I mean, that shit's just boring!

When you also consider in such un-important facts as: the majority of game developers breathing right now will attempt to express themselves on this platform, the deployment of such powerful hardware on a massive scale, the cultural ramifications of video gaming getting bigger and bigger, that metric shit-tons of talented and intellegent people are participating in and observing this launch- I mean, you're so right: anyone into games, business or culture would be just bored. to. tears. right now.

In all seriousness dude, it's GAMES.slashdot.org. Say it with me- slowly. GAMES dot Slashdot dot org. Got it?

Plenty out there

[fishbowl]

There's not such a shortage as long as you're willing to pay upwards of $1500...