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John Seigenthaler Sr. Criticises Wikipedia

EsonLinji writes "John Seigenthaler Sr, a former assistant to Robert Kennedy, has written a commentary in USA Today expressing outrage at a libelous biography that appeared on Wikipedia that suggested he was involved with the assasination of JFK and spent more than a decade in Russia. His commentary also takes aim at internet providers and the laws that allow them to act as common carriers without liability for the actions of their users."

12 of 672 comments (clear)

  1. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    no link to the article?

    1. Re:What? by lowrydr310 · · Score: 2, Informative
      One of the edits changed his name to "Seigheiler" though I think the editor meant to say Siegheiler.

      I'm not German, but I do know how to pronounce 'ie' and 'ei' properly.

    2. Re:What? by arwel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Er, no. The oldest publically accessible version is currently

      # (cur) (last) 22:15, 24 September 2005 Chick Bowen (Rewritten to remove copyvio)

      but if you're an Admin you can click on "View or restore 9 deleted edits?" at the top of the history, and see

      # 20:07, 30 November 2005 . . Gamaliel (Reverted edits by 155.247.222.210 (talk) to last version by Gene Nygaard)
      # 20:05, 30 November 2005 . . 155.247.222.210 (External links)
      # 20:04, 30 November 2005 . . 155.247.222.210
      # 23:54, 23 September 2005 . . W.marsh (Reverted edits by 63.163.57.36 to last version by 69.172.115.157)
      # 23:53, 23 September 2005 . . 63.163.57.36
      # 11:06, 23 September 2005 . . 69.172.115.157 (This is the correct bio. The previous entry was bogus.)
      # 21:52, 29 May 2005 . . SNIyer12
      # 14:29, 26 May 2005 . . 65.81.97.208
      # 19:53, 15 September 2004 . . 65.170.144.130

      The offensive version the fuss is about was the 26th May one, which apart from a little wikification a few days later remained untouched for 4 months, when things started hitting the fan. To me, the whole incident simply shows that Seigenthaler is not sufficiently notable to have been on many peoples' watchlists, whatever he may or may not have done 40 years ago; if the Christina Aguilera article had been vandalised it would have been noticed and reverted in minutes.

    3. Re:What? by Gulthek · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are missing the point of what wikipedia is. It is not a replacement for traditional research as you describe (of course, no researcher worth any amount of salt would start with ana encyclopedia), rather it is a storehouse for people to share what they know.

      A researcher could write up an article on his latest topic of study, a scientist could write up an article about her little known subject. Of course it isn't vetted, but it isn't supposed to be.

    4. Re:What? by julesh · · Score: 2, Informative
      A researcher could write up an article on his latest topic of study, a scientist could write up an article about her little known subject. Of course it isn't vetted, but it isn't supposed to be.

      I'm afraid you're missing the point of wikipedia. This is *not* what it's about at all -- it intends to produce a high quality encyclopaedia.

      The goal of Wikipedia is to become a complete and reliable encyclopedia. Verifiability is the key to becoming a reliable resource, so editors should cite credible sources so that their edits can be easily verified by readers and other editors.

      One of the keys to writing good encyclopedia articles is to understand that they should refer only to facts, assertions, theories, ideas, claims, opinions, and arguments that have already been published by a reputable publisher. (source)

      --

      Wikipedia is not the place for original research. Citing sources and avoiding original research are inextricably linked: the only way to verify that you are not doing original research is to cite sources who discuss material that is directly related to the article, and to stick closely to what the sources say. (source)
  2. From Wikipedia by bdesham · · Score: 4, Informative
    On November 29, 2005, Seigenthaler wrote an op-ed in USA Today discussing his biography on Wikipedia. The article had contained incorrect statements between May and September of that year, including allegations which he considered "character assassination." The statements, which had been inserted anonymously, had been removed by the time he wrote the article.
    link. (Emphasis mine.)
    --
    Alcohol and Calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive.
  3. Re:why no moderation by jacoplane · · Score: 5, Informative

    Isn't it a bit ironic that Wikipedia (supposedly a reliable encyclopedia) has less advanced moderation than Slashdot (famously unreliable)? Perhaps it's time they got a bit more structure.

    Actually, a new feature called article validation is about to go live on wikipedia. See the article from this week's signpost. The feature will hopefully help adress some of the issues being raised in this story.


    I do also notice that Wikipedia has a lot of entries for stuff that might not otherwise be considered important enough to be in an encyclopedia - open source software that is not yet out of beta, cars in video games etc.


    Yeah, so? Jimmy Wales:"Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." ... That includes obscure topics like video games that you might not care about.

  4. Re:Standard wikipedia response by aussie_a · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't believe he made anyone aware of it, either,

    Actually he called up Jimbo and it was changed (that's what happens when you RTFA ;)). From my impression of the article, Jimbo was more then helpful and the writer appreciated it and didn't hold him personally responsible. However he does want to make Jimbo legally responsible in the future, which is quite odd considering how much of a positive response he got from him (I guess Bellsouth's response left a very sour taste in his mouth).

  5. Re:First Amendment by stubear · · Score: 2, Informative

    First Amendment rights are not absolute. Libel and slander are two exceptions to the rule and could apply here. One of the greatest failings of the internet is that it allows people to write libelous comments with little fear of legal action. Technology isn't the Great Equalizer, it's the Great Enabler, nothing more. It allows people to avoid personal responsibility for their comments. If it were truly equalizing, the damage caused by libel could be just as easily reversed by rebutting the comments. Unfortunately people fit into this great technology equation somewhere and things aren't that simple anymore. The original libelous comments have already formed an opinion in people's minds and a simple rebuttal will not sway our opinions easily. Throw in information overload and people are far too willing (and I mean all people, not just technophobes) to believe comments in the internet without doing any research into the allegations and determining for themselves who's right and who's wrong.

  6. Re:First Amendment by ViolentGreen · · Score: 3, Informative

    The law makes a clear distinction between First Ammendment rights and libel. He is suggesting that this is a libelous and damaging article.

    I have to admit that I was expecting more than a couple of sentences of offending text in wikipedia though. Either one of those sentences could be passed off as misinformation though. Even if he found the author, I think it would be hard to prove that it is libel.

    --
    Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
  7. Anonymity, an honorable tradition by bourne · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was going to point out the role that anonymous pamphleteers played in kindling the American Revolutionary War, which I think we're safe in assuming John Seigenthaler Sr still recognizes as a good thing. But in researching references, I found someone who had already articulated this argument better than I could hope to:

    If not for the use of pen names, our monetary system would probably be in pounds and shillings rather than dollars. The political debate that led to the American Revolution and the ratification of the United States Constitution was waged under pseudonyms, published not only in newspapers throughout the colonies, but in pamphlets that were widely circulated.

    (Full article by Ken Anderson, Editor of the Magic City Morning Star, is here; it points out how many of the founding fathers 'posted anonymously')

    It's too bad John Seigenthaler Sr. has his feelings hurt by what is an obviously untrue story about him. I'm a little suprised that someone with what appears to be both polititcs and journalism in his background is so easily perturbed such ludicrous accusations; both professions generally involve thicker skins than that. he's welcome to his opinion about the wisdom of allowing anonymity - but fortunately (in my opinion!), reality differs.

  8. Re:Are wiki's above the law? by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 2, Informative

    New York Times v. Sullivan is a good precedent here.

    The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the New York Times, stating that "profound national commitment to the principle that debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open".