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Alaskan Cyclotron - Not in My Backyard!

j-beda writes "Wired reports that "Albert Swank Jr., a 55-year-old civil engineer in Anchorage, Alaska, is a man with a mission. He wants to install a nuclear particle accelerator in his home." To be used to create medically useful isotopes, and even though some of the neighbours are supportive, opponents "compared potential damage from a cyclotron mishap to the Three Mile Island nuclear reactor accident" though an expert says "Probably the worst thing that could happen with small cyclotrons is that the operator might electrocute themselves." It looks like the Anchorage Assembly plans to hold an public hearing on December 20 to determine whether Swank will be permitted to install the device."

22 of 392 comments (clear)

  1. I can understand the hold by millahtime · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can understand the hold. It's all about risk. People in the area most likely don't know the possible repurcussions of this. At least, they havn't been stated before the record. If the repurcussions are low, I am sure this will go in without a problem. Have to look out a little for public safety.

    1. Re:I can understand the hold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's all about risk.

      What risk? Oh, wait, you mean the risk that the crackpots that the "opposition" digs up saying that a cyclotron could blow all of alaska to kingdom come could actually be right?

      Look, I know people talk about bias and shit, and how everyone should listen to "both sides" of every argument, but didn't it occur to you that sometimes the other side is just plain wrong?

    2. Re:I can understand the hold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I don't know how exactly makes those things the NRC, but here in Argentina someone with a particle accelerator would need to:
      - Get a license to own a radiological facility;
      - Get a license as an operator for this equipment (or hire someone);
      - Hire radiological protection personnel and equipment (personal and area detectors) or contract the Atomic Energy Comission for this;
      - Get a license to operate this facility;
      I'm not sure if urban planning has much to do with this... cyclotrons and other particle accelerators are installed in hospitals (and I don't know someone is too much concerned about having a hospital in their neighbourhood).
      And no... it's not about risk... it's about fear. Most of the time is about fear and politically driven disinformation.

    3. Re:I can understand the hold by pocopoco · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just like how irradiated food succeeded so brilliantly even though it is safe? Most people hear the word radiation or nuclear and that's it for them, logic never comes into play.

    4. Re:I can understand the hold by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I want to see the proof for "most people" argument that the general populace is dumb. All to often I see a story like this on /. and some posters use the comment most people are too dumb to understand this technology. I want to see proof that backs this up. Is the general population that dumb where they can't be educated or do you just want trying to make yourself superior?

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    5. Re:I can understand the hold by penguinoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can understand the hold. It's all about risk. People in the area most likely don't know the possible repurcussions of this. At least, they havn't been stated before the record. If the repurcussions are low, I am sure this will go in without a problem. Have to look out a little for public safety.

      No, it's all about fear. So a cyclotron can produce nuclear reactions. So what. It only produces radiation in one direction, and I could stand in front of one plenty long without dying (yes I would get damaged). But put a chunk of lead in front of it and no problem, or just point it upwards.

      It might be able to explode due to heavy magnetic fields, but that wouldn't be very powerful. You should be afraid of natural gas, that can make a real explosion. Maybe people are justified in being afraid of nuclear power plants, but there are several models that can't explode.

      I can't believe I'm saying this, but a lot of people should start moving to Kansas...

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    6. Re:I can understand the hold by aelbric · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree that the general reaction to anything nuclear is tantamount to instantaneous hysteria. Even if the "other side" is misguided, there is never harm in a public conversation about an issue that is disputed. I could understand wanting to know a bit more if this guy were living next to me.

      Emergency legislation banning home cyclotrons? Gimme a break. Why not just have a councilmember go talk to the guy and say "Hey, look. Your neighbors are concerned. How about coming and giving a presentation to explain this thing to everyone before you install it?"

      My problem is that every disagreement in this country has to be some kind of a crusade nowadays. Don't like something? Protest! Shortchanged at the store? Sue! Teacher give your kid a B-? Lynch him! Guess we've lost the art of conversation.

      My opinion: If there is no serious, likely risk, let him have it.

      --
      nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos
    7. Re:I can understand the hold by jafiwam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mod parent down as full of shiat.

      Vitamin C, for example is chemically fairly close to glucose and can be synthesized in large quantities.

      If the food is getting enough radiation to break up vitamins, it's you are doing it wrong.

      Radiation treatment kills LIVING cells, in particular bacteria and viruses and so on... stuff that makes you sick.

      Sodium chloride or sodium iodide is the same no matter what the source. (Psst, that's why they call it that, because it IS that.) It doesn't matter if the atoms come from the moon, the ocean, or horseshit.

      Parent is spouting typical left-wing holistic medicine hokum masquarading as "health".

  2. Three Mile Island by students · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Wasn't very dangerous either.

    1. Re:Three Mile Island by vertinox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Three Mile Island was nearly catastrophic. And radiation did leave the plant during the accident.

      If you look at it in a global view, I would suspect more people die of lung related diseases from coal and fossil fuel emmissions on a yearly basis than ever died of 3MI, Chernobyl, and all nuclear releated accidents put together.

      I'm not supporting one over the other or even advocating nuclear power, but you have to remember sometimes that if a disaster or worse case scenario looks worse on paper or in people's minds or in actuality (like 3MI or Chernobyl), it is generally the more mundane that tends to be more unhealthy or causes more deaths.

      Kind of like deaths related to cars vs deaths related to plane crashes but I'm breaking my own rules about analogies here (well this isn't internet related).

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  3. lack of science by emamousette · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You would think that after the Manhattan project didn't incenerate the earth as it was feared it would by some people incited by a few wrong-headed scientists, that folks would do a little research before knee-jerking their way to denying this man his chance to do basic research.
    To me, the only valid complaint one might make without having ana advanced degree in physics would be wondering about the effects of the huge magnetic pulses this would put out and the effects on his neighbors' electronics for the few micro seconds a day. But then again, if their house is close enough to be affected by these fields, they're too close anyway.

  4. Pish and posh by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1, Insightful
    It's kinda unlikely he will be able to make a cyclotron of any usable size. The main hangup is the magnet-- you need many many many tons of iron for the core, many many tons of copper for the windings. Unless he has a 50-ton crane and $500,000 for the core and wire, he's not going to get very far.

    I guess he could go with superconducting magnets, but that requires mad crogenic skillz. And you still need lots of iron.

    Even then he's going to need another big jar of cash for the RF generator, excellent high-vacuum skills and lots of electricity. Then if he's lucky, he *might* be able to generate a microamp of million volt electrons-- about what the average cat brushing by nylon curtains can generate.

    I wouldnt worry too much about the nuclear-spiltting capabilities here.

  5. Take the city's side on this one by PartyArtie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This guy's running a business. If he's using industrial equipment, he should be in an industry-zoned location. Why would he be running it out of his house? Save money on a building? Avoid paying property taxes? Avoid OSHA regulation? Not so noble. It's not like he's a weekend inventor with contraptions in his basement that likely would only hurt himself. This is heavy-duty equipment (20T) that will be used by a (presumably) for-profit company.

  6. Will they burn him at the stake... by PhotoBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... if he's found guilty of witchcraft?

  7. Re:It cant be any more dangerous by Formica · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You mean like Switzerland?

  8. Re:Property Values by timster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's nothing legitimate about an obsession with "property values". Nobody has a right for their property to maintain a certain value. If land speculation is a critical part of your retirement plan, you might want to consider some less risky investments.

    --
    I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
  9. I fear my neighbors too! by AB3A · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I presume this guy has a reasonable "back yard." The article didn't say how large his property was. Assuming that Swank has room for a reasonable building in his back yard to house this endeavor, I don't see why this is any different than a garden shed or a garage.

    With all those household chemicals, pesticides, sprayers, fertilizers and the like, one could easily mix them wrong and gas the neighborhood to death. The gasoline from the lawn mower might leak and cause an explosion from the fumes. The pesticides might get in to someone's well and poison them. The mulch pile might catch fire and smoulder...

    The list is long. The point is these are every day hazards that people are comfortable with. This is all about feelings and very little about the actual hazard. It's not even about ignorance. People are woefully ignorant about the products they use in their houses every day.

    I say hire a PR firm through the local hospital, buy the neighbors some doughnuts, and listen to the chatter. Clearly there are a few arrogant idiots who need to be identified and pushed back in to their caves^H^H^H^H^Hhomes.

    --
    Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
  10. re: "most people" dumb argument and proof by King_TJ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is not so much that "the general population is too dumb to be educated", but rather, the typical person you run into "on the street" is walking around with a head full of misconceptions and urban legends, rumors and half-truths.

    If you don't yet believe that a good 50% or so of the "general population" has irrational fears of such things as "radiation" and "nuclear energy", randomly ask some of them about such things. (EG. "Hello sir. Would you say that the possibility of getting brain cancer from using your cellphone too often is a real concern or not?" ... or "Hi mam. What are your thoughts about potential health hazards of living in a house that's placed not too far away from some high power lines?")

    To make things more complicated, a LOT of people make good money off sustaining these irrational/illogical fears. Sometimes, it's because they're part of a non-profit agency that needs this fear to ensure their continued existance. Other times, it's because some con-artists have a business selling useless devices that are only purchased by those who misunderstand the concepts. (You did buy your radiation blocking cell-phone sticker thingie off eBay, right?)

  11. Inventors: Use your most powerfull ally: by Hosiah · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Human stupidity. DON'T TELL THEM that you're building this scientific thing with lots of scary big words in it. Tell them it's a shed for your gardening tools. Hell, it's Canada, tell them you're growing pot.

    Even when a young lad, I heeded it well: "An ounce of keeping your mouth shut beats a ton of explanation." That's saved my ass - in every imaginable context.

  12. Liberals get what they asked for & don't like by ccmay · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I've been thinking: it's no secret that the blue states subsidize the red states with tax dollars.

    And so they should, to the good bleeding-heart liberal who favors progressive taxation and government handouts for the less fortunate. Compare the average yearly incomes in the different states and you will see what I mean.

    According to liberal dogma, the wealthy limousine liberal in Connecticut ought to be proud and happy that the government will take money from him and give it to the poor white trash living in a Mississippi trailer park.

    Funny how fast that left wing sympathy for the downtrodden vanishes, when the benefits go to stubborn rednecks that don't reward their patrons with votes!

    -ccm

    --
    Too much Law; not enough Order.
  13. Re:They have no clue. by jafiwam · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's a difference between arguing "need" and "needs to be here".

    The guy can do that in a comercial park somewhere in Anchorage rather than a residential neighborhood.

    Problem solved.

  14. Re:They have no clue. by clnelson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The disaggreement isn't just about the cyclotron (ok a lot of it's about the cyclotron). It's also the fact that the business model isn't appropriate for a residential area. This guy is right in the middle of the neighborhood and he has to rush his stuff to the hospital. He should be setting up in a small office near the three major hospitals in Anchorage (all located whithin 15 blocks or so of each other --Providence, Regional, and the Alaska Native Health Center). But instead he's in a downtown residential neighborhood that's two or three school zones away from the hospitals through cross town rush hour traffic. It just isn't a good idea. The zoning wouldn't allow him to set up a barber shop, I don't see why they can't refuse him his medical production and courier business.