Pocket Linux Server Showdown

phaedo00 writes "Ars Technica has put together a review of two pocket Linux servers (the Gumstix Connex 200 and the Waysmall 200BT). The review covers all aspects, including programming for the devices and their respective communities: "As with any OSS-based project, the community is what makes the Waysmall powerful. It's the community that comes up with novel applications, and develops new uses for the existing hardware. The Waysmall community is coming together as evidenced by several very involved projects and a healthy online presence in the wiki and mailing lists. Additionally, the Gumstix developers seem to be taking active roles in the community, folding community recommendations into their products as well as offering leadership and advice. Somewhat more organized and comprehensive documentation would be welcome, but not if it comes at the expense of accuracy, which the current documentation seems to have in hand.""

Comments

Stay tuned!

[Klowner]

Stay tuned for the Pocket Linux Server Meltdown! Coming up next.

hopefully TFA isn't hosted on one.

BlackDog and Waysmall, actually.

[robbkidd]

The review is actually of the Gumstix Waysmall 200BT and the BlackDog Pocket Linux Server. The Gumstix Connex 200 is similar to the Waysmall, but only mentioned as related, not reviewed.

Downloading the Internets

[vijaya_chandra]

Downloading the Internets ( In page 2 of TFA )

I thought the internet that I downloaded last week was the only one, looks like I'll have to find the other ones too

Re:Downloading the Internets

[gatzke]

That is one of my favorite Bushisms from the debates. My wife hates it when I use it in public, mostly since nobody remembers it but me and this guy, apparently.

My other favorite was "mis-underestimate" used in reference to the views of his critics. I used that term correctly in a paper on underestimation of nonconvex functions...

why?

[marcushnk]

Can someone tell my why a web server of this size and capability is useful?

Re:why?

[samjam]

Cos its the easiest way to provide a multi-display cross platform user interface for a headless unit?

Sam

Blackdog... Whats the point?

[beswicks]

While the Gumstix offering could be useful for a number of applications, although I would be more inclined to buy the "bits" I needed for a specfic project, the Blackdog looks totally useless.

From the article it seems that it basically piggybacks onto a desktop computer, and them allows you to connect to it (in the articles case via X11) and run some applications... Given that it needs a much more powerful computer to control it what is the difference between it and a USB memory stick with applications that can run on the host os... The programs may be running on the blackdog instead of the host, but so what.

Gumstix on the otherhand looks like a nice solution for a robotics project I have starting in January...

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[Nimey]

Not to mention how stupid the Black Dog looks. I'd be embarrassed to use it, let alone be seen with it.

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[Allnighterking]

Read more ..... *grin*

All the host computer does is supply hardware. If I ask you where your computer is and you point to the monitor... I'm not goint to be able to explain this.

The BlackDog doesn't have 1. A video card 2. a nic 3 a keyboard port 4 a mouse port 5 a usb port 6 a firewire port. You desktop on the other hand does. So If I want to check my mail I pop in my BlackDog, "borrow" the 6 items I don't have that I need to use, and exit when finished, leaving nothing behind. I don't need your computer, CPU, Ram etc, but I do need your input devices and display device.

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[beswicks]

While I get that it is very "cool" to have a PC in your pocket, and "your" apps running on "your" little computer, this thing is only using the host as a link to the network, access to the device is then made using X11 or SSH etc... My poing was that is a really bad idea. You need to install driver (read admin access) software on the host computer in order to use the dam thing, so what advantage does this have over a usb memory stick with some executables on it?

Just to nit-pick, you are not using the USB or Firewire Ports from the host, all the USB connection to the blackdog enables it to get network access. With the network access you can then access it like you can access it via X11, ssh... so i'll give you the kb, mouse and videocard...

I'm not sure you understand what this thing is, or how it works...

Mmm, this post sounds a little mean... I don't mean too, just woke up...

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[Allnighterking]

The drivers/devices auto install and auto remove. I don't have to do jack. (on windows Linux includes the drivers already)

You assumed that the only USB device on the host is the BD. But if the host has others there are ways to use them (like a USB keyboard and Mouse) Firewire access I'm now told is flakey. (don't have a way to test so ... I'll take their word)

I do understand what it is... I'm using it right now..... doH!

You don't need admin access on the hosts. It runs at, well, what windows calls user level. Unless you've got the anal retentive mindset of a company I was recently at. 10 Windows boxes connected by ethernet and totally blocked from communicating with each other or the world. Yep, floppies and thumbdrives where everywhere. (and the guy couldn't understand why he still got viri, go figure)

With all due respect. It is you who may not get what the BD really is. Its that putty colored box shrunk down to fit in a pocket (in all respects shrunk down) that works as a symbiont.

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[beswicks]

OK... from the article

"You plug it in and the computer starts churning. Several minutes later Windows asks you if it's okay to install this and that driver. As things are starting to look like they're getting good, the Windows XP SP2 firewall asks to let a half dozen ports open so the BlackDog can contact military spy satellites. Then, you need to reboot. So you reboot. You plug the BlackDog in, the computer churns for a couple minutes, more questions are asked regarding drivers and ports. And you need to reboot again. Finally, you plug the BlackDog in again, and you're ready to roll."

So according the the review it needs two reboots to install the windows drivers... While the article may not be correct, its the only info I have.

Also whats the point of being able to access a keyboard and mouse directly if you have no way to display the results? If you are using SSH or X11 to access the device then the KB/Mouse is routed via the network link (although that may be running over USB, its NOT the same thing as access the KB directly via USB)

As to what the BD is... its seem to be a tiny little server with no ethernet port that uses USB to connect to a host computer and piggyback onto its network access... with no ethernet port, and the need for a host computer I don't see the point...

My point however is not that this thing is totally useless, but that a USB memory stick with some software on it will give you the same functionality, and you do not have to install software to access a USB memory stick, or run programs off it. So instead of telling me the ins and outs of how this connects to your computer, please tell me what does this thing do that a (cheaper) USB memory stick cannot do more simply?

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[beswicks]

I forgot... also from TFA...

"You can only install it on machines you have administrator access on."

So which is it? Is the article wrong? Does it not need any custom drivers? You CANNOT install drivers on a Windows machine unless you have admin access...

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[syk0k0w]

I have a BlackDog device and particpate in the contest. You most definately don't require adminstrator access. Just because some followers happen to click yes when Windows says to reboot, doesn't mean you need to do anything. I've plugged mine into family machines, work machines and others with no problems at all. I think the best example of how the BlackDog's capabilities are far stronger than just the robotics use of the gumstix product is the following forum link which talks about all the uses some 15 people are using their BlackDogs for. http://dogpound.projectblackdog.com/forum/forum.ph p?thread_id=14&forum_id=1

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[syk0k0w]

If you're only doing to be doing a robotics project and want to be constrained to having to supply strong power that is the size of a brick, then gumstix is great! BlackDog on the other hand is being used for a breadth of things ranging from remote work to audits. Below is a link to their forum on this topic. http://dogpound.projectblackdog.com/forum/forum.ph %5Bprojectblackdog.com%5Dp?thread_id=14&forum_id=1

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[syk0k0w]

Just because you're dog is uncovered and exposed... There is no reason to be so jealous and say such things.

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[beswicks]

Damit... the link doesn't work... I REALLY want to know why ppl would use this over a USB memory stick with some cunningly compiled programs (ie so that they work off the USB stick)...

So the blackdog can get network access via usb without installing any drivers? Or does it just mount as an external disk/cdrom, in which case its just an expensive USB stick? And do you access it via X11 if you want a GUI? or do they have some "funky" program to get graphical access... If the software is running on the blackdog, can you get access to files on the host other than via filesharing of some sort?

As for Gumstix it seems that you could "build" a blackdog type device from thier offerings, and even better you could build one with an ethernet port so that you could put it on the network direct.

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[syk0k0w]

http://dogpound.projectblackdog.com/forum/forum.ph p?thread_id=14&forum_id=1 is the active link. Obviously I don't know much about these types of things, but I do have some observations from my experience that might lend themselves to your questsions. I'm interested to hear how some interestingly compiled programs from a memory stick would work in both Linux and Windows (like the blackdog does). What OS can you plug the gumstix into and interact with it? ahhhhh. None? After looking at your post, I think you have a point. There really isn't a comparison between the BD and Gumstix. Gumstix is a science project. No one will carry any types of settings or other items with them on it. On the other hand, the BD was built as a development platform to enable just that. You can carry your email, settings and other data with you and keep it safely separate from the system you plug it into without having to be administrator or do any crazy configurations. So I hope you're satisfied that you might be right. The Gumstix has a strong use in robotics, while the BD might not have a strong use there, there are after only a couple of months almost 500 developers who have captured the dream of carrying my settings, programs and data with me and being able to plug it into any system.

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[beswicks]

Gumstix. With a Gumstix with an ethernet port you could interact with any desktop that can support X11, or even a web browser or ssh, telnet etc. However I admit, that if you want a thing to carry around with you the blackdog seems like the more nicely produced solution.

Memory Stick. If you get a nice big stick, and compile your programs to run from the stick, for both Windows / Linux etc, then you can have all you stuff / settings with you. As the BD will only be able to run software that is compiled for it i cannot see a problem in compiling for the memory stick.

Blackdog. I do see the advantage of having your own computer with you at all times. My issue really is that this thing would be so much better if they stuck and ethernet port on it. I don't see how it can setup USB networking without the modules for it being in the kernel, so you cannot say that it will just work with all OS's, where as a Memory Stick will work with any OS that has USB, and a Blackdog with Ethernet would work with any OS that is connected to a Network.

As for what the people via that link are doing... Well its seems they want to reprogramme the FPGA (a bit of preprogrammable logic) to change how the USB port works, so they can connect a chip to allow then to get some "real" wires to connect to robot bits... which is crazy, but fun...

I can see that you have your viewpoint, and I do think this tiny headless server concept is kinda neat, but without an ethernet connection, or even better wireless you will not sell it too me.

Mmm... wireless and bluetooth... GPS via Bluetooth for location, wireless for sniffing... wardriving while you walk around town, in your pocket. Bring on Blackdog Version 2.

Re:Blackdog... Whats the point?

[shungopavi]

Another review: http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=conte nt&task=view&id=486&Itemid=2

Flying webservers are neat but

[xenocide2]

What I really want to see is a driver for DVI or VGA. And maybe some more RAM. But moore's law means in a few years that extra memory is practically a given. Maybe I should just buy a mac mini instead =/

virtual pc

[Jamesie]

Why not have a usb powered disk with virtual pc and the vmc & vhds you want on it. The laptop drive enclosures are pretty small and you can get all your favourite software in the images and even a number of different builds. There is also a mac version but I am not sure if they can use the same images.

I tried Soekris

[bzipitidoo]

I've been looking for small cheap headless computers for a long time, but they are hard to search. Want to use them as servers. Found Soekris, which does the job, but took a while to set up. Had to figure out how to net boot, cross compile, and work around various limitations. Meanwhile, the distro I used (uwoody from ucLibc) has vanished, so if I want to update, I'll have to start from scratch. Would prefer something easier to set up, and these don't sound like they are any easier. Still, glad to know about Waysmall and BlackDog. Anyone know of others?

Re:I tried Soekris

[samjam]

Not only will you have to start from scratch, but if what you have is GPL you are no longer allowed to distribute if you don't have the source.

And now a general message: Children; with the GPL - no source means no freedom to distribute, always get the source at the same time as the binaries and you will never be stuck.

Sam

Re:I tried Soekris

[the_humeister]

You could always get a Linksys WRT54G. That thing has more computing power and memory than my 486 DX2/66.

Re:I tried Soekris

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a pocket-sized server based on PXA270 S cale.asp>.

This runs Debian/Apache in native mode, no desktop needed. Or, if you want plug into the desktop, add eternet and use XWindows. This is a 'real' server. A few months ago we had trouble with a change to W2003 on our dedicated server. Our Linux group actually hosted thier FTP site off one of these.

P.S- also runs CE with Web server, including ASPX.

Lawrence (not the mafioso from NJ) Ricci

uses for Gumstix Connex

[jpostel]

I have to admit that, although I have no use for the Connex right now, the ultra geeky coolness of them makes my mouth water.

The only thing that came to mind about these was what a great distributed cracking tool they would be. I can't recall the first place that I read about the idea (2600? phrack?) of putting a small wall-mount box in a telco closet leaching off the nearest T1. It would be soooo easy. Although I've never done it, I've often planned it out in my head. I worked for a couple companies that had branch offices scattered around the US with no local IT presence. They only site visits were to upgrade servers, switches, or routers. It was pretty rare that anyone would touch anything unless they were expressly told to do so. A box on the wall would go completely unnoticed. During a site visit, we once found a BSD firewall attached to our network in a branch office that had been installed by a previous consulting company. We had not detected it in our remote scans because it was configured to be transparent.

The coolest Pocket Linux Computer right now ..

[torpor]

.. is is this one ...

What this really is.

[Allnighterking]

Micro "servers" (god how I hate how the word server is mis-used) seems to be a concept that most I show mine to, or talk to about them, don't understand. So lets get a few things straight.

1. You aren't going to be able in the immediate future to compress a 8-way opeteron Raid 5 terabyte server into a pocket device.

2. That 500 dollar video card you just bought won't help you read e-mail faster. (gameing may rock, video editing may be helped but e-mail just won't care)

3. More Ram just like anything else has it's limits. If you exceed the amount the system can use efficiently you are wasting money and time (I had a customer with 3 1gb sticks in his mobo, each slot had a 512mb limit.... guess what! that's why he's a customer *grin*)

4. In the Windows world the concept is "Bring the mainframe to the desktop" In the *nix world the concept is "Many hands make light work" Neither concept is wrong per se. Unless applied at the wrong time, to the wrong place.

Given the above and especially #4 trying to turn the Gumstick or the BlackDog into a high end Opteron is a joke. BUT, what if I took a 1U connected to a Storage server and filled it with gumsticks. Each one is in it's own right a computer, each computer is independent of the other .. and say for the sake of arugument I could fit 500 gumsticks in this box. I now can supply my users with their own idividual server, choice of OS, Choice of XXXXX as they desired for what 90% of all Net systems are, low volume. The guy who gets 100 unique visits an hour doesn't need even a pIV to do what she's doing. The cost savings for the ISP in electricity (Cooling and server) are huge, those get passed on to the user in many ways, (lower colo costs, lowered pollution etc).

The days of acting like the Seagulls in "Finding Nemo" are over. Mine, Mine, Mine, is no longer a way to go, doing everything in one box is a waste ..... Someday even the RIAA and SBC/ATT will figure this out.

Seems far from useless

[syk0k0w]

the following is a link to the BlackDog forum in which discussions are made about how many things the BlackDog is being used for after just a couple of months of being in existance. http://dogpound.projectblackdog.com/forum/forum.ph p?thread_id=14&forum_id=1 Seems to me that someone has BlackDog envy. Just buy one to upgrade that old Gumstix of yours to make feel the real capabilities instead of just being able to be used for robotics.

Review

[shungopavi]

http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=conte nt&task=view&id=486&Itemid=2