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EFF Sues NC Election Board

Kludge writes "The EFF is suing the NC elections board. The board certified several voting machine manufacturers although none of the manufacturers would comply with the state law (passed unanimously) that the machine code be kept in escrow."

13 of 247 comments (clear)

  1. democracy? no... by joe+155 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Will this stop my dead cat from voting 43 times in the election again?... I know it has rights but it keeps voting republican...

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  2. "even though", not "because" by Shelled · · Score: 4, Informative

    The board certified several voting machine manufacturers even though none of the manufacturers would comply with the state law (passed unanimously) that the machine code be kept in escrow. Not because.

    1. Re:"even though", not "because" by brianosaurus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Duh. The same place every criminal gets the authority (and stones) to override laws. They just do it, and hope they don't get caught.

      Oops. Busted!

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    2. Re:"even though", not "because" by megabunny · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This whole voting machine issue is so lame.

      We just had municipal elections here in British Columbia and I used a 'voting machine'. You mark off your votes on a letter size piece of paper by darkening the circles. Then you feed it face down into a scanner, which deposits the page in the ballot box after tallying it.

      Election results are available quickly from the machine.

      Hand recounts are perfectly possible because of the hard copy record.

      What is so difficult about requiring hard copy records? Votes are worth one sheet of paper.

      Chuck

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  3. I'd like to see this taken farther by dada21 · · Score: 4, Interesting



    The EFF is worried about e-voting based on the likely possibility of vote manipulations. Those in power of the election boards have an incredible amount of power in abusing the democratic process.

    I'm no fan of democracy as all I see in democracy is the ability to manipulate the vote to further the interests of the elite. Democracy is merely a shroud fooling the voting citizens into thinking they don't live in an authoritarian and favoritist regime.

    Votes are manipulated in more ways than just electronically:

    1. The FEC sets federal campaign finance guidelines. Any restriction in how you spend your money is unconstitutionally limiting your freedom of expression. The primary goal of campaign finance reform is to give the authoritarian political parties great power over non-authoritarian parties. What democracy needs is Real Campaign Finance Reform (group is gone) that gives everyone back their ability to express their beliefs politically. Even if you want to give money to a third party, they can't do much with it and you can't give as much as you want.

    2. The FEC gives voters the idea that money corrupts government. Government corrupts due to unlimited power to control, not because of voter donations. If our federal government ran beneath their constitutional boundaries, no amount of bribery or donations would make one difference. Russian could give every Congressman a billion dollars a piece, but the Constitutional would not allow any Congressman to give Russia (or any group or individual) preferential treatment.

    3. The school system is unbalanced in teach the Constitution, leaving the majority of the population unsure of the real power of the Constitution -- leaving people free to use the rights they are born with, and preventing any government from walking over those rights.

    4. Voters are given completely biased ballots. Proper ballots should force the voter to know who they are voting for and write in the candidate. Offering ballots showing the current office holder or party affiliation provides more power to the two authoritarian parties.

    5. Voters are only allowed to see commercials from major parties as they are offered (illegal) campaign matching funds in addition to virtually unlimited campaign budgets. Third parties can not raise the necessary funds as they are limited by finance reform guidelnies.

    6. Voters never get to see every candidate in the debates as the debate committees are run by authoritarian parties unwilling to give up their powers.

    7. Voters are confused by the colluding media that wants them to vote in order to give the authoritarian candidates the mandates needed to expand the power of government. Voters rarely hear that voting is wrong and that the process setting up the vote is a collusion between the authoritarian parties.

    I hope that the EFF can see how short they come when they prosecute only the voting machines, rather than the voting system.

    Do what I do. Don't vote for any candidate -- write yourself in for every position.

    1. Re:I'd like to see this taken farther by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm no fan of democracy as all I see in democracy is the ability to manipulate the vote to further the interests of the elite.

      That's election fraud, not democracy.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:I'd like to see this taken farther by Rydia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, you're comparing an economic system with a governmental system? Wha? What would a free-market government look like? Who would issue currency? How could you enforce rapidly-changing laws? How could you do all the wonderfully unprofitable things that governments do, like funding education? Competition isn't going to help students in any aspect other than their pocketbook, since it'll be a race down to the bottom to try to provide the most cheap, bare-bones system posible. And how would you regulate trade? The closest I can come up with is a greek system of city-states, but even those had civic governments. I just don't see how you can compare free-market capitalism and democracy as political systems.

      Oh, and you can fix past errors in judgment. Laws can be repealed (even amendments!) and courts can find laws unconstitutional, even if they were found consitutional before, if "society's understanding of the facts have been fundamentally altered." To paraphrase Justice O'Connor.

    3. Re:I'd like to see this taken farther by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Who would issue currency?

      Actually, in Hong Kong most currency is issued by three private banks, each with their own design. The govt issues coins and one low-denomination bill. The banks do have to be licenced, and have sufficient assets to cover their cash.

  4. How Is This Possible? by quanticle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the article, it seems like the elections commission certified all voting machine manufacturers despite the fact that none of them were in compliance with the law. How was the elections commission allowed to do this? Wouldn't the logical solution have been to certify none of the voting machine manufacturers until they came into compliance with the law?

    Am I missing something here (e.g. time limit)?

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    1. Re:How Is This Possible? by D.A.+Zollinger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most people are not logical. As an example, math is logical, and the majority of people suck at math. But I digress...

      I believe what you are missing is politics. The director of the elections comission wanted to show to his superiors that he is doing something useful and tangible. Was the director/members aware of the state law? I am sure they were. Do they have the power to force vendors to open their code? Not really. All they can do is tell the vendors, "We're not going to certify you until we can review your code."

      My guess is that they were put under pressure to get some sort of electronic voting system in place for the 2006 elections, and instead of doing what would be right for the people (follow the law, protect the voters, etc), they did what would be better for someone else's political career ("See what wonderful things we are doing with state money?" and "No more antiquated voting methods for our citizens!").

      I'm glad the EFF called them to task on this one.

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  5. Re:cool by jeremy111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think the issues is with who "won" the last two elections, but weather our choice in elected officials in the future will be determined by some unknown black box of voting. Think FICO credit scores and how that was made to be understood by the majority. Also, consider every application that you have ever updated. Did that update occur just because? NO, it did not. There was something not right and the update "fixed" the issue. DieBold, et all, need to make their money; but electing my leaders, their way, is not the way. If you want to do business with my elections, make it TRANSPARENT. If you cannot make you money that way, make it some where else.

  6. Re:cool by DarkOx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has nothing to do with GW. I do agree that he did win as you say but that is not the point at all. The point is that as a citizen I have or should have a right to know how the ballot process works and it should be auditable. These things are not possible if the voteing machine is a black box and nobody but those who built it know what goes on inside. I don't know about but I am not sure I want to put my faith in some company who made a voteing box to conduct a fair election. These types of things are part of public life and their workings should be public domain. Its the same situation with the breathalizer and redlight camera trials going on around the country. If I am to be convicted of a crime based on some machine's results, I have a right to know how it works so that I could question the system's accuracy in court. Equipment that plays a roll in our democracy should be Open for all to see and understand if interested.
      Government is supposed to be TRANSPARENT in a republic like ours. This is why you can watch congress on CSPAN, sit in on a trial, speak at your town meeting etc. The very fact that we allow all these things shows as a society we value this transparency. We should not allow it to be taken from us through the use of magic black boxes everywhere that nobody can talk about what they do or how they work because some company has a patent or won't release their soure or whatever. Any and ALL equipment used in our governing process should be Open Source pure and simple no exceptions this nation was built on transparency lets have some. In fact this really should be a Constitutional Amendment!

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  7. Shocked North Carolinian by smelroy · · Score: 4, Informative

    As a North Carolinian I was a little shocked to see the EFF was suing the state elections board. Then I read why. Why does the elections board think they can just ignore the law? I am all for having electronic voting and I imagine that it will help out the process considerably but we certainly shouldn't add more risk for fraud and error. Voting accuracy should be priority #1.

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