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White Box, Or Big Names for Lower-End Servers?
LazloToth asks: "Those of us who manage small- to medium-size networks face the decision all the time: for the run-of-the-mill web, print, or storage server running on i386 architecture, should we buy HP or Dell, for example, or build it ourselves from commodity hardware and save some bucks up front? In my operation of fewer than 50 servers, one will see a mix of the two. For servers that take more abuse, I tend to buy the proprietary stuff. But not always. I wonder what experiences other admins and managers have had with do-it-yourself servers in a production environment, and whether they feel that white-box servers perform as well - - and last as long - - as anything else? What is the mix in your network of big-names to no-names?"
there are two sides the issue here
big name - warranty (saving your ass)
white box - if you build it yourself you know what's in there. It's cheaper. But you don't have a warranty.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
Lights out management usually works better on IBM, HP or Dell systems. Also, building and fixing machines is a pain and gets time consuming & expensive, particularly if you get a bad batch of drives or motherboards that requires alot of fixing.
If you are running < 10-15 machines, I can see cost savings in going whitebox. But if you are tight on staff and runnings lots of machines, buying name-brand kit is cheaper in the long run.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
We went the white-box route on our first compute cluster, which were then converted to desktops later. Decent machines, but the power-supplies weren't up to the 24x7 operation and tended to eventually have the fans sieze up, causing the ps to overheat. Eventually other components showed that they could have been better, and we cannibalized some machines to keep others running. They were replaced by HP and IBM boxes under 3-year, next-day, service contracts.
The advantage of calling IBM, HP, or even Dell, is not simply the service contract (though your time is worth something), or the fact that their QC is superior to wherever you're getting your parts from, but that they have real engineers, who worry about such issues as optimizing air-flow, choosing proper fan-sizes, etc. Take apart an IBM xSeries 345 some time, then try to decide if you could actually buy parts to build a machine like that, for less than just calling IBM.
White-box systems may have once made sense, ( I remember a 386/40 AMD-based system that I wrote my thesis on that was still running when I came to visit years later), but with modern components, heat-loads, etc, it pays to invest in properly engineered hardware, backed up by a company willing to service it on short notice. WB hardware may still make sense for desktops, if your environment keeps the data in non-local storage, so that a new desktop can be dropped, booted, and put into production immediately. Never with servers.
We adopted an informal, simple, but effective policy: Do not buy any machine that doesn't come with a three-year warranty, or hard-drive that doesn't come with a five year warranty.
the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
With the low price of low end servers you aren't going to save a lot of money going with the low end box.
Consider this, you buy, or build a white box. You'll end up with very short warranties provided by different companies, very much a pain in the arse. You may save $200. Now think of how much a 50k/year sysadmin makes per hour (roughly $25 if I did calc right)
So, $200/25 = 8 hours...
Now you've got $200 which is equivelent to 8 hours. Are you going to spend more times on a whitebox than a dell? I would say so. ESPECIALLY if you're building yourself. Consider extra time spent finding parts. Extra time putting it together. Then when things fail you have to round up the warranties for individual parts. Probably your warranties won't be as good as what dell provides. And then repair time. I know as a sysadmin we tend to repair ourselves anyway, but consider it may be something you WOULD let an on-site tech repair because you're busy...
In a home situation, I'd say build your own. When you're off the clock, your time is free. but at work, when time IS money, buy the named stuff.
BTW, my numbers are BS. Play with your own, I think you'll draw the same conclusions.
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
For the Big, Important Servers-- customer-facing web servers, product db backend, major fileservers, etc-- then IBM, HP, NetApp for fileservers, etc seem to be the way to go. Use somebody who's built a name for themselves in the enterprise by service, not marketing; Dell still doesn't know how to support those needs.
But for intermediate servers-- internal web servers, testing boxes, etc-- you can go with a smaller company. It's still worth going with a company, rather than DIY: the company deals with fixing servers every day, has the parts on hand, etc. Your organization may have great people, but the guy who is constantly building servers for a living is going to beat you on service.
The smaller companies, like OffMyServer (blatant plug for a company who's done well by my employer), can meet your needs without breaking the bank. We have dozens of servers in my department alone, and we just couldn't afford to put a big HP contract on each of them.
ObDisclaimer: Speaking for myself, not my employer, my own opinions. Not affiliated with any of the above companies that I know of, other than that my company buys from all of them.
One of the questions that you should answer for yourself is, "If this server is down, how much time will it take the boss to get pissed?" If the answer is less than one day then get a name brand and a service contract that guarantees a fix, but from the sounds of things, the answer might be more along the lines of multiple days. So as long as you can make it work then white box might be a better idea in the long run, if you can handle 3 days minimum for a part replacement.
Just my thoughts on the issue.
I have a server room filled with HP servers. We lease them for 3 years and then send them back. I have ZERO problems with the software and I get parts (usually drives) replaced in less than 24 hours.
These servers run 24/7 for the 3 years we have them and give us no problems at all.
I buy second hand named brand servers.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Besides, by depending on this guy, you've created a one-man point of failure. What happens when this guy gets sick or goes on vacation? Where's your immediate response then?
Even if he never gets sick or takes time off, he's not going to be able to sustain this level of service. His own good reputation will work against him. He's obviously one of those people who has to do everything himself. He's probably not very good at delegating or training, so he's never going to be able to scale up his operation. So unless he starts turning away business and dropping customers when they get too big for him to handle, he's going to get in out of his depth.
If I were in your shoes, I'd want my hardware needs met by a solid organization, once I could count on not just now, but years from now. And that has to do with people, not with where the boxes are assembled.