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The Hassles of FFXI on the 360
Via GameSetWatch, an IGN article looking at the frustration and hassles of the SquareEnix PlayOnline interface on the Xbox 360. From the article: "If you've played FFXI previously, the process of going through Play Online to get into and out of a game session may seem familiar. On the PS2, which didn't have a complete Online solution like Xbox Live, Play Online's existence was justified and even welcomed. On Xbox 360... not so justified, and definitely not welcomed."
Before you mod me troll, hear me out...
I am a LONG time fan of square, from back in the days of the original nes final fantasy games up though the "Secret of XXXXXXX" games and even up to FF7, but recently they have been pissing off a lot of long time fans such as myself by implementing dumb ideas like this. It seems that they are running out of ideas. Crystal Chronicals when compared to such gems as Chrono Trigger looks like they arent even trying anymore. There is no more story, there is no more feeling for the characters, there is no more fun. Just empty shells of what could have been really great games.
I dont want to see them fail by any means, but I refuse to buy into these half assed attempts they have been making.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill
Maybe they missed the hastle of dealing with SE all together. The useless GM's, the horrible IT staff that can never keep things running (wait no, the game is being "DDoS'd"), and the emergancy maitnence that never ends when it is supposed to (I didn't want to play on my day off anyways).
But then again, M$ Fanboys should be completely used to such problems.
Scott Swezey
So the point of this article is that Square designed Final Fantasy IX to include a complete system for registration of players, management of accounts, and now that they are trying to port it to the Xbox360 which already contains that funtionality...they are having a hard time.
Wow, big suprise there. While I am not going to absolve the Square-Enix team, they're taking a game made for one platform, and putting it on another platform which has a totally different set of features they are required to use. I don't really see this as news. If the person who wrote this article is pissed, just think what the dev team is dealing with. They are required to do certain things for the Xbox 360, which conflict with infistructure already in place because the PS2 (nor will the PS3 support) any kind of unified online service. This means that every individual developer/publisher will have to develop their own solution for online play. When you try to move those solutions to another console which has an inteligent design, you will get burned.
Of course players will want to access their old accounts (if they allow this feature) so they will have to tie into the existing user database. This will confuse users because they will have an Xbox Live login, and then a FFIX login, and there is no good solution to this.
We PC players had to put up with the exact same crap. Eternal install times, stupid interfaces, bad jazz music. Then there were the patches...
Will there be issues, of COURSE there will be issues. Is it dated? Well last I saw Ultima is what 10 years old or so and still being played? Is it for everyone, probabaly not the normal American 360 players but then general opinion is it wasnt ment for them nor are many MMOs in the traditional sense since they have a want for fast pace action akin to what SoE did to Star Wars (and we all know how well that was recieved by true MMO players)
Seriously Im starting to both get tired by people thinking
a) betas are ment to be perfect representations of the game.
b) all games HAVE to be exactly like the twitchy first person shooters on PCs
c) Everyone HAS to love your game or else.
Course I would expect nothing less from IGN since they have managed to alienate most gamers against each other in recent months.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
After all, they did just release this awesome GBA game called "Final Fantasy IV". It's the latest and greatest of the FF series and you should definitely give it a try before giving up on Square/Enix.
It reminds me of the glory days of console RPG's on systems like SNES and PSX.
I'm not saying you're a troll, but I wonder exactly what you're talking about here. Specifically, what "dumb idea like this" you're referring to. Also the sanity of the article in question.
First, assuming you're referring to FFXI when you mean either "dumb ideas like this" or "there is no more story," this is far from true. FFXI has a very deep and long-running storyline; the fact it takes a lot of work to experience may turn off a lot of people, but no one is demanding they play it, either. In fact, I warn most people away from FFXI unless they have time to dedicate.
But the story is just about as Final-Fantasy-esque as they come. (There is even Cid!) I will not spoil it (and indeed I don't know a good bit of it, having not yet played all the way through it), but there is far, far more than your typical MMO, involving multiple large story arcs. Both current expansions (Rise of the Zilart and Chains of Promathia), as well as the upcoming Treasures of Aht Urhgan, are for the most part story additions, consisting of a large number of new missions.
While the game is obviously adapted toward a large multiplayer world, you still have all the typical Final Fantasy bits you'd expect, like riding chocobos, fighting large critters, summoning familiar faces, and going to weird magical worlds to save the planet. But you do it with your friends, and you are the characters that experience the story. (Given the fact FF1 and FF3 had "you" as the characters, not predefined roles, this not something unusual to the series.)
But it takes a major time dedication. This is not something you will finish in 50-100 hours. This is for people who want to have the time they spend now still paying off after a year, two years, three years down the road. (Although you will be "into" the game in a much shorter period of time.) It's not for everyone.
On the issue of PlayOnline, having used POL on a regular basis (being a FFXI player since the PS2 release), I can say (along with many who have played it since the PC beta) that POL is very nice. This is one benefit of "some companies" to leave the online handling to publishers; when they need an integrated multiplatform framework, they're not locked in by the platform.
The article basically boils down to "waah, this UI is just like the PS2 version!" What do they expect? The interface provides uniform features to two other platforms. Unless Microsoft wants to provide its Live functionality to other platforms, only exclusive titles are going to use it. This is something XBOX fans had better get used to.
Additionally, it's somewhat humorous to note the complaint about 6GB of space taken up for the hdd image. The X360 drive is suprisingly small... even the PS2 HDD is 40GB, and the FFXI image there (which loads completely and requires no disc) is 12-16GB now with all the expansions loaded. Yes, this is a big game. Don't complain to Square about having a lot of content, complain to Microsoft about having restrictively small media.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Crystal Chronicles should be compared more to Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest, or even Secret of Evermore, than Chrono Trigger.
I play DQ8. I also played the FFXII demo. I have to say I liked it, even if I can't figure out the difference between the "Active" and "Wait" modes. Neither seems to give me the sense I'm playing the game, any more than a 5 year old "plays" the games he's staring at in an arcade, slapping the controls around, all the while with no money in the machine. FFXII just seems to "do things", and I can kinda move a character around, somewhat.
Hmm... Maybe I didn't like FFXII after all, huh?
VOTE!
...it wasn't welcomed on the PC version, either. Yet there it is, patching itself uselessly every time I played FFXI. Maybe they felt bad FFXI didn't have as many bugs as SWG so they thought they'd get as much of their quota of MMO annoyance out of the way as early as possible.
I had to get all the way to the ultra-tedious resource gathering and tracking which stores were open when before I remembered what kind of game it was.
-jpowers
OK... now, I'm a total Square fan. Hell I've spent more time playing the FFXII demo than DQ8 (not that I don't like the latter, but I'll get to it after WA:ACF).
That said, what exactly in most Square games is there to the story besides cutscenes? I mean really: you talk to someone and get dialog or cutscene. Then you fight your way around until you get to a boss, and another cutscene which furthers the story. Honestly I can't think of anything that has ever really influenced the storyline. I like the games, because they're fun and they have good stories, but ... they're pretty much the same thing!
In FFXI, it's the same. There is longer between scenes, perhaps, and they're significantly more difficult, but ... you still talk to people for tidbits of information, and then you go off to fight a battle or get an item somewhere or put an item somewhere, and you get a cutscene to further the story when you're done. Maybe you don't feel as "involved" in the process; admittedly the general lack of actual roleplay on most servers isn't conducive to an immersive environment, but still. It's the same thing.
I would recommend you find an RP Linkshell if you really want to get into this. (And be careful; avoid "RP" linkshells which are full of angsty emo kids. Drop them immediately.) They exist in varying degrees; you can probably find a few friends and do this yourself if you desire. To this extent, MMOs in general will require a bit of participation to complete the loop on your end. They can't force you to act in character without draconian oversight, but just because you don't have to doesn't mean you shouldn't. RP can be a great deal of fun and make all the difference in the world.
The world in Final Fantasy never "changes" outside of the story. "Stuff happens" in FFXI, as well. You have to play more than the first few missions to find it, though. You need to delve deeper into the world. This requires you become a high-level character, but once you are, there are many, many missions to go on. (And with the CoP expansion, there are a good number of missions for moderately-levelled players, too.)
POL provides: Updates and information, chat, email, messaging, accounting, and it does it through an easy-to-use interface that doesn't require anything external, and works on any platform. If you don't like it, big deal; so you have to click an extra button or two before the game starts. The sound you hear is the world's tiniest violin, playing just for you. The people I know who play on the PC (which is actually most of them) have absolutely no problem with POL.
(In fact, when I first started playing WoW, for instance, I found that having to go to a website to register was quite tacky, and was annoyed I couldn't do it through the game.)
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Exactly.
I actually beat the boss from the "inside the Temple" portion of the demo (can't remember which mode it was), without doing anything. My wife called me away from the controller. Since I had been playing DQ8 before that, I forgot it wasn't turn-based. The AI members managed to defeat the boss from 1/2 dead, with no help from me at all.
It's a demo, true. But come on, now.
VOTE!
Or you could just hold down Enter/ X, until you ended up in the game-like a normal person would.
I guess the PS2 can't keep up with the game.
or maybe its a beta.
I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
I found that having to go to a website to register was quite tacky.
Oh no. It's TACKY! Big fan of keeping up appearances, are you?
The fact is, it's not only intelligent from a programming standpoint, it is also the correct medium for such a system. It makes sense for a player as well. Imagine that my computer dies and I can't afford to replace it, or I have just stopped playing the game and uninstalled it but forgot to unsubscribe. How do I cancel my subscription now? Well, you know, just about every computer in the world has a web browser installed. Why in the heck should I have to reinstall the WHOLE DAMN GAME just to unsubscribe and then uninstall the WHOLE DAMN GAME? I hope this doesn't sound like a ridiculous scenario, because it happened to both me and my friend.
The game executable should be just that. THE GAME. It should allow you to play THE GAME. Why should it handle accounts and subscriptions? Use a separate executable, or a website, or anything you want. It doesn't belong in the game, because it's wrong in two ways. First you're reinventing the wheel and then you're attaching it to an unnecessary place.
Random and weird software I've written.
I guess you didn't play FFXI for long. Step 4 can be obviated if you activate the shortcut option in the control panel. Step 8 can also be disabled. Hell, I did that before I even watched the damn movie. And the Handle selection process doesn't exist anymore.
Handles existed so that people could choose whether to have a character friended or an entire profile of characters. Let's say I have two separate characters that I both play, one with a bunch of rowdy guys and another that I play solo quietly. I can allow people to friend my first character without them even knowing of the existence of the second character. If they were on the same handle, then people would know I had another character and they'd see it if I logged in on it.
POL is stupid for many reasons, but you are stretching things out. I can get logged in within 15 seconds. Step 4 isn't "thinking" - it's network communcation and authentication. There's a network activity indicator in POL - I guess you never noticed it.
The thing is that POL was designed to be everything that Live is, and the reason that FFXI never made it onto the Xbox was because Microsoft wouldn't let Square use POL, and, as I'm sure you're no doubt aware, there's a very good reason for that. POL was also designed to eventually blossom into a "portal" of sorts, which is why Square charges for services like PlayOnline Plus. They were hoping to make it a one-stop communications centre so that they could make money off of you even if you weren't playing a game.
Also, as many people are aware, the Japanese player base is far larger on the PS2 than on the PC, and many PS2 players don't even own a PC, so POL provided a messaging tool that those players may not have already had.
I know it's fun to be indignant and make fun of everything Square does these days, but let's be a bit more informed and realistic, please.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
This may be suprising, but a lot of people have subscribed to the internet only for FFXI or other console games, and therefore may not have a web browser available. This isn't the case for a PC-only RPG like WoW, where you need a fair beast of a machine to play it, but it is for a console MMORPG. (See pages 8-10 of the PS2 manual which refer to various direct-connect configurations, both ethernet and modem.)
Let's see, page 24 of the manual under "Registration Process", we have:
Additionally, if all methods of interaction are denied you; you tossed the manual, you broke your PS2, you lost your mind and can't use a phone book or call the operator, you can at last resort call the credit card company and either try to find contact information, or charge back a payment, which according to page 26 will cause your account to be suspended, and thus you're home free. That was hard.
So are you lying, or can't you read?
So I have my console hooked up, possibly to the only internet connection available, then I find I have to go register on some website. Then, given I have a computer, and it's hooked up, I have to copy registration information across.
Or, on the PC, I start the game, go to log in, and realize I now have to quit the game, launch a web browser, and register. Then write down all my information, start the game up, and type it in again.
Or, with PlayOnline, I can start the game, enter my information, and start playing, and have a center for communicating with fellow players and the like. And it works the same on any platform I play on.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Yeah, so I just started up the PC version, and, um - that doesn't work. You have to press Enter every single step of the way.
I don't know when you get out the POL viewer and into FFXI itself if you can just hold enter, because the update process is also a giant hassle. You can't tell it to just keep trying, you have to press Enter every single time the update fails.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
The game executable should be just that. THE GAME. It should allow you to play THE GAME. Why should it handle accounts and subscriptions? Use a separate executable, or a website, or anything you want. It doesn't belong in the game, because it's wrong in two ways. First you're reinventing the wheel and then you're attaching it to an unnecessary place. Uh..... You _DO_ realize you can just install POL and nothing else? For the longest time, I had uninstalled FFXi and just used the messaging/email capabilities of POL (woo.. my own @pol.com address, nifty) to talk with people. You do realize that the japenese version of POL has more than two games, right? POL is a lot like steam and we all know how much people rant against things that are different, eh?
Now lets examine FFXI.
1. Click the ffxi button on my hotbar.
2. This actually just opens up pol, so click login.
3. This brings up the password box, but it is already filled in. Click login again.
4. It thinks for 5 or 6 seconds and we get the main screen. Click "Games"
5. Click "FFXI" instead of "Tetra Master"
6. Click Play FFXI on the welcoming menu.
7. Click the "ok, I won't forget to feed myself or use the restroom" button.
8. Click to skip the opening cinema.
9. Click '"play" to get to character selection.
10. Doubleclick your character.
11. Doubleclick your "Handle" (a completely unnecessary creation that is distinct from both your character name AND your login ID).
12. Confirm your choices and hit "OK".
I have no clue what you're talking about..
1) I double click on POL. Since I'd previously hit remmember password and auto-login, it brings me straight to the main menu. I see that I have no new messages or mail.
2) I click on games.
3) I click on final fantasy.
4) I click play.
5) I click play again at the "don't forget you have a life outside of this game!" screen. Which I feel is nifty and wish that WOW would have a similar one so that may people who now play that game and I used to know would get a hint.
6) Hit "ok" at the accept TOS screen (just to save them their ass)
7) Hit select character.
8) Select a character, and confirm selection.
And I'm in. Fast. Painless. No bitching.
Hey! It finally completely updated successfully!
And you can't hold down Enter to get into the game once in the actual game either. You actually have to press Enter every step of the way.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
By comparison, in WoW the process is "Fire up WoW, type in password, click login, click enter game world" (possibly type in account name if you don't have the auto-remember setting checked). If you're playing a different character than you were last time, add one mouse click. If you're playing on a different server, add three. Total elapsed time for the typical case is about 15 seconds, most of it at the loading screen.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Not only do you have to press the enter, you also have to select some options (like "I agree, I will not ruin my life playing this game") which are not the default options. And you can only type your input after the screen is fully loaded, which literally doubles the amount of attention you have to pay since the entire process gets bogged down with pointless 3D eyecandy during the load screen. I liked FFXI for a while but the login process was something decent shareware developers would have slit their wrists over ten years ago if they had let it into a program.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Blizzard must have been feeling left out, as they have (since the last patch) made WoW pop up a 'launcher' first, which displays a mini-browser with various news items about the game, and has a little sniff round your machine to see if you are running any cheats. It can be disabled by faffing about with shortcuts, but still, it just shows how much these companies love their portals.
"it's still pretty slow at copying data over from DVD to hard disk. "
From the DVD to the what? The Core system doesn't have a hard drive, and because of it I distinctly remember Microsoft saying that no game will actually require the hard drive. Are they now backpedalling?
"And then, of course, there's the nuisance of having to fully log-off in order to exit a game of FFXI."
/shutdown instead of /logoff next time.
Try
FFXI is just complete shit. The whole thing is is designed to waste people's time so that they don't finish everything within a few days and cancel their subscription. There's barely more game content in there than in a normal Final Fantasy.
The world map for example is massively spread out to make sure it takes ages to get anywhere, that way you can't do anything too quickly. Then when it comes to levelling up your character it takes ages to even advance one level. Plus there's the problems in trying to get a team together. The Japanese generally refuse to play with anyone who isn't Japanese for some reason and when you finally do get a team there's always some idiot who can't do their job properly and gets everyone killed (at which point you lose the precious EXP you'd earned until that point).
Look at the notorious monsters too, some of these bloody things only pop every 3 hours or more, and you can get 50 different people camping for it. So what happens when someone else steals it? Time wasted doing nothing. You can either come back and camp again later or just find something more fun to do like sticking splinters under your nails.
And then there's the subject of the in-game market. Thanks to Squeenix doing fuck all about gill sellers inflation is ridiculously rampant. Items can be priced over 10 times what they should be worth.
Next up, game patches. Can't Squeenix pay for some more bandwidth? The updates get cut off so often it's not even funny, and when it goes wrong it spends ages rechecking the files. And you don't want to know how long it takes to re-install the game after a hard disk crash.
Overall FFXI is just a dedicated time waster, it's designed to keep you playing for playing as long as possible. Just say no.