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Blackberry Competitor Announced
conq wrote to mention a BusinessWeek article reporting that NTP has licensed its wireless email patent to a new Blackberry competitor. Essentially, they're creating a competitor to Blackberry out of whole cloth, and bolstering their case against the popular handheld device maker. From the article: "The deal comes amid dwindling options for RIM, seller of the popular BlackBerry e-mail paging service. NTP four years ago successfully sued RIM for infringing on NTP's wireless e-mail patents. After a tentative $450 million settlement fell apart in June, RIM has battled back through court appeals, holding out hope that the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office (PTO) will strike down NTP's patents." This has not been a good month for RIM.
My Pocket PC PDA phone finally failed after I ripped out the charging jack by accident. A family member had an unused Blackberry 7100 phone that I threw my SIM card into. I've been using in for 2 days and I honestly believe the Blackberry is one of the worst produced handhelds I have ever seen. The scroll wheel is efficient only if you use the push e-mail, but the device does not seem very powerful, intuitive or expandable. Simple can be a good thing, but not if simple means "simple enough for the mentally challenged."
If Blackberry's major market was offering non-techie CEOs an easy to use device, I guess it works fine. Yet as common PC users become power users, I'd guess they'll outgrow the device and want more power and expandability (and customizable user interface). Using it right now reminds me more of an etch-a-sketch combined with a speak-and-spell. The Blackberry with T-mobile doesn't even use T-mobiles GPRS Internet plan, they want me to get some Blackberry plan. Even my old Nokias use the GPRS Internet plan (a great backup if you break phones as often as I do).
If Blackberry beats out the patent problems, will they have much of a future with a product that seems outdated by almost 5 years? Do many users here use their Blackberry and like it? I've been using PDAs since before the original Newton, and this device is just hokey. I feel like I have a trophy wife that looks nice but doesn't actually do anything. What am I missing?
So Visto have managed to licence what appears to be a non-existant set of patents from a company no-one has heard of. They must be betting the barn that the US legal system continues to come down hard on RIM and they have to shut up shop. Visto aren't new though, they've been around providing push email services for a while.. so perhaps they just bottled out when the NTP lawyers turned up.
One final point.. do you think that RIM would be having these problems if it was a US company rather than a Canadian one? Microsoft gets away with infringing patents all the time, but it's yet to be proved that RIM actually *has* and yet they are punished far more harshly than Microsoft ever was.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
So what were you using previously?
I'm on the look out for a good PDA phone and need some recommendations.
Bullet Points with a Passion:
* NTP licensed their patents to an existing player named Visto. They also gained a stake in them as a result.
* This is the same Visto that sued Microsoft today for patent infringement with their Windows Mobile 5.0 software and it's ability to send/receive e-mail.
* This "new" competitor has been in business since 1996. I've been personally aware of their e-mail solution for the last couple years.
This seems relevant, and it's been on my mind for a while, so I might as well ask it here.
Does anyone here have a working understanding of how software patents came about in America, or how they got so out of hand? This one strikes me as particularly idiotic, being that they patented... wireless email.
Hell, I sent out an email a few minutes ago and I'm currently on a wireless LAN. Does that mean I or Yahoo! (technically) owe these fucks royalties?
Here in DC, everyone and their mother has a blackberry. To think that there is no market for blackberry is ridiculous.
The only thing it has going for it is the push email. My MS Smartphone receives email but only when it connects and checks my mailbox. Maybe if I had an important email that was received 1 minute after it just checked, I'd have to wait 29 more minutes to have it automatically check again. If my almost half-hour were THAT important to me, I would consider a BB.
You're right though.. they SUCK as a PDA but that's because they aren't supposed to be PDAs. It's an email terminal and nothing else. The user interface is complete crap, the scroll wheel is impossible to get used to. The only thing it does well is make and receive calls and email push.
Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
Wow, a ridiculous patent system backed by corporations now results in the very same corporations going after each other based on ideas that are almost intuitive. Pretty soon some company will patent the process of breathing. Think it's far fetched? We'll living things are patentable.
http://www.stockmarketgarden.com/
It comes with the default "straw-" skin but will come with different skins: "blue-", "red-", and "rasp-". Even a novel skin "black-" will make it's debut when RIM goes down in flaming glory after the Strawberry squashes the Blackberry.
:wq
On a side note, the company NTP signed a licensing agreement with, Visto, also filed a lawsuit against Microsoft yesterday claiming infringement on the three of the patents they hold. Alas, I have submitted the story and awaiting for approval, but it appears that NTP also acquired a stake in Visto. Interestingly enough, it seems the Visto claims are somewhat similar to the NTP v. RIM, but that could just be the media talking again. It is possible the patents in question actually deal with another part of the wireless e-mail chain and that the media is just getting confused amongst the technology again.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
With such a generic patent (wireless email) and success against RIM, will they go after the Treo next? Other "smartphones" ?
I'm not sure what the secret to success is, but the secret to failure lies in trying to please everyone -Bill Cosby
"A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required."
i ndex.html#whatpat
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/
How many mayors, governors, Congressmen, CEOs, executives have Blackberries? A lot.
Maybe if they feel the pain of the patent system they will put pressure on to change it.
Granted, nothing may come of it. But change rarely happens without convincing people of a need for change.
How many times have you gotten your server/whatever by on a limited budget. What's the best way to get the appropriate amount of resources without requiring unnecessary heroics? Let something break so people see the need.
That can backfire, but it is still the best way.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
"We felt [NTP's] patent portfolio was something that would provide our customers with the added insurance on top of what our portfolio provided."
Added insurance.
Not a better technology, just insurance that the products and services we sell you wont be ripped away. Is that what the patent system has become?
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
I don't know. I rather like my 7100t. Perhaps it is because I'm comparing it to the crap cellphones everyone else has, but it seems pretty nice to me.
:(, it is a bit clunky with the USB cable attached.
A few points:
1. No connector conspiracy. Uses bog standard USB to charge and the headphone jack is the most generic one available.
2. Integrated browser seems to work reasonably well, although it's kinda slow
3. The address book could use some UI tweaks, but it's loads better than most address books on phones that I've seen.
4. The text input works reasonably well. Occasionally it gets tripped up on a word (and I usually know what words it's going to have trouble with, so this isn't as bad as it could be), but it is a bit awkward to go back and edit stuff. Still, it's the fastest text input I've seen this side of the full size Blackberries. Blows regular cell phone (multi-tap) text input out of the water.
5. No MP3 support, no camera. The lack of a camera is a big plus for me, I work in places where you can bring a cell phone in, but not a camera. The lack of MP3 support isn't an issue for me either because I own an iPod.
6. The phone is largely unrestricted as to what you can load onto it. There's no rediculous charge to load ringtones or backgrounds. You can either load these from your computer or just over the network (any picture you load in the browser can be set as your background).
7. You can use the phone as a modem--although not over the Bluetooth.
8. Battery life is pretty reasonable. I've had it for 7 months now and the battery still lasts for 4-5 days without being turned off. Playing games on the phone drains the battery faster (can only play for 5-8 hours or so before the battery is dead). I've never killed the battery with talking, but I'm not a big talker.
9. The screen is gorgous. Among the best screens available in cell phones. It's a great when paired with the web browser, but it's also good for reading emails if you set the font size small and have good eyes.
10. The included belt clip is a bit disappointing. The cell phone will fall out if you move too vigoriously, and sometimes it falls out when I'm sitting in low riding cars. It will also scratch the screen if you're working in an environment where there is sand or other abrasives in the air.
Overall I'm very happy with the phone. It seems to hit the sweet spot between performance and functionality IMHO and the integrated email works like a charm. I'm going to be sad if RIM is forced to close down due to some stupid submarine patent.
I read the internet for the articles.
From Canada'a Globe And Mail:
M .20051214.wrimm1214/BNStory/Technology/
http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGA
Of note from the story:
"Donald Stout, a patent lawyer and co-founder of NTP, said the deal should help his firm's case before the patent office. "RIM has been saying our patents are no good, but we have had three major companies sign up to license them. If there was nothing there, no one would deal with us," he said. "This suggests we can do business with people and licences get worked out.""
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
1. Go back to old way patents were done - which includes working implementation upon application. Thus ideas become unpatentable. Same with business methods. It will also render 90% all the unreadable legalese to obscure what you are patenting obsolete.
2. Punish non-English application. No, I don't mean application in a foreign language, just the ones that read like they are. Plain english is a must. Jail time in Gitmo otherwise.
2. Raise price to apply for patent to $10,000 - while it may seem to screw the "little guy" it actually will kill corporations trying to patent every little thing. Even a little operation will be able to afford to patent 1 worthwhile application, but will corporate America still be able to afford to apply for 10's of thousands of trivial patents?
3. Part of application fee (say 1/2) will go as a bounty to anybody who can disprove it - in other words show prior art, etcetera. This could be anybody - college students, professors, employees of another company.
That's it:)
1. Patent obvious idea but never implement it :D
2. Wait till a fool does
3. Sue / License
4. Profit!!
Don't we love America?
That's the thing about RIM, though.
Live by the sword and all that...
Simple can be a good thing, but not if simple means "simple enough for the mentally challenged."
:)
Remember the intended audience. CEO's and self important VPs. They can't handle complicated technology. Face it the blackberry is just a replacement for the standard etch-a-sketch that most PHBs have trouble with.
The BB has probably the best j2me support. Very easy to program for. Supports many JSRs without much nonsense. I don't care for the form factor or the scrollwheel though. The push email is very nice, though not necessary, for me. .Net for it, but again, this was not a huge deal. I don't like the keyboard much, but otherwise, not too shabby.
The Treo 650 is a pretty sweet device. This is my primary phone/pda.The latest software patches seem to have made it fairly stable. The keyboard is the best, the screen is amazing. Developing daemon software for it in j2me is not feasible, however, since the device suspends java apps when the screen turns off (which is all the time). However, we are dedoing our app in Palm's native stuff, and it is not bad.
The windows phones are not too bad either (Sprint 6600, 6601, 6700). We did have to redevelop our software in
So, for anyone to select what they like from these devices for daily use, it would probably come down to personal preference. My favorite is the Treo 650. But the others definitely have their own stuff that can make them more attractive to users of a different profile.
-naeem
[shameless plug]Check out our company, Agilis Systems for GPS tracking and Mobile Resource Management software[/shameless plug]
not being entirely sure of the phrase's meaning:
Cut out of whole cloth
CUT OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH - "Wholly false; without foundation of truth. Back in the fifteenth century, 'whole cloth' was used synonymously with 'broad cloth,' that is, cloth that ran the full width of the loom. The term dropped into disuse along in the eighteenth century, except in the figurative sense. In early use, the phrase retained much of the literal meaning, a thing was fabricated out of the full amount or extent of that which composed it.But by the nineteenth century it would appear that tailors or others who made garments were pulling the wool over the eyes of their customers, for, especially in the United States, the expression came to have just the OPPOSITE meaning. Instead of using whole material, as they advertised, they were really using patched or pieced goods, or, it might be, cloth which had been falsely stretched to appear to be of full width." From "A Hog on Ice" by Charles Earle Funke (1948, Harper & Row)
So when they say "they're creating a competitor to Blackberry out of whole cloth", what are they implying?
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
It's surprising to me that there is one very large group in the portable email device market that is consistently overlooked: Drug dealers. If there is any group that depends wholly on reliability of their Blackberry devices and could benefit from competition, it would be the miscellaneous crack, heroin, and meth dealers that inhabit our neighborhoods, hallways, and emergency rooms. They provide an invaluable service to congressmen and other miscellaneous lawyers, airline pilots, musicians, school bus drivers, doctors, clergy, SCO executives, Courtney Love, and daycare providers across the country. Their lives are on the line every day, and if there is no reliable wireless email system for these upstanding members of society, the entire industry will fail to thrive and eventually die. WE CAN'T LET THIS HAPPEN! OUR TRADE GAP WITH CHINA WILL SOAR! Without the drug dealers, there would be no DEA! And what do you suppose we would do then?!?! Go NTP go!
There are many devices that do a lot of things better than a BlackBerry, but no one does Email better than a BlackBerry does. When you have full Enterprise integration with wireless sync, it's almost like having Outlook everywhere you go. If you read a new email on your BlackBerry, it gets marked as read in Outlook (via Exchange). Reply to an email and it shows up as "replied" and a copy of your email is inserted into your Sent box. It takes some time to get used to, and I didn't like it at first, but now I can't imagine going back to not having it, and I know MANY people that can't live without it.
If you're using a BlackBerry device with only POP3 accounts or with Exchange without Wireless Sync, there are many other devices, particularly Treos, that are much better suited. The 7100 (which is what I have) has much better phone functionality than previous BlackBerries, but it's not nearly as good as modern, dedicated phone interface (like a Samsung or Sony Ericsson). You really have to be close to your email to appreciate a BlackBerry.
The only thing it has going for it is the push email. My MS Smartphone receives email but only when it connects and checks my mailbox. Maybe if I had an important email that was received 1 minute after it just checked, I'd have to wait 29 more minutes to have it automatically check again. If my almost half-hour were THAT important to me, I would consider a BB
My T-mobile h6315 had "push e-mail" too. An SMS notification came in to the phone, was captured by software that hid the SMS and downloaded the e-mail to your client. It was transparent and nearly instantaneous -- I'd get e-mails literally 30 seconds after the sender sent it. It worked flawlessly for a number of accounts.
It isn't just for non-techie CEOs. It's pretty much for ANY non-techies. That includes Salespeople and middle management.
The Blackberry with T-mobile doesn't even use T-mobiles GPRS Internet plan, they want me to get some Blackberry plan.
This is most likely because the BlackBerry really shines when connected to the push email server (via the BlackBerry Enterprise Server). If memory serves, T-Mobile has their own BES servers, and that's what the special plan is for. Also, I don't think older BlackBerries had their own TCP stack, so the BES server would be required for data transfer. The newer OS allows you to completely bypass the BES servers, so you might actually be able to use one with normal GPRS Internet... until they catch you.
Do many users here use their Blackberry and like it? I've been using PDAs since before the original Newton, and this device is just hokey. I feel like I have a trophy wife that looks nice but doesn't actually do anything. What am I missing?
If you were looking for the BlackBerry to replace your PDA, you will almost certainly be disappointed. It doesn't have nearly the power or software library that a Pocket PC offers. But for what it was designed for, it does far better than its competitors. It was designed for basic PIM, email and messaging. And the phone is an add-on. That means that if you are using it for email, calendar, task list and instant messaging, it's a great device. Compared to Pocket PC it's very stable and has a much, much longer battery life. My BlackBerry regularly goes for five or six days between charges, which includes moderate use as a phone. The push email provides more or less instant access to messages as they come in, and these days I wouldn't be caught dead without it. Oh, and with respect to the thumbwheel, you get used to it. For reading emails, it's much better than a stylus. You can do the whole thing one-handed.
Up until recently, there has been little or no competition for the BlackBerry infrastructure (which provides push email among other things). This is starting to change, and I predict that within the next year that Research In Motion will have to do something stunning to keep their hold on the market.
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
NTP's patent is pretty much irrelevant; there are plenty of ways of getting real-time E-mail to your device, with polling and IMAP IDLE being the most obvious choices. RIM is only stuck because NTP zeroed in on them early and because (apparently) their implementation infringes.
RIM could probably have worked around this patent easily. But my impression from using their product a little is that they aren't very good technically anyway.
So, let NTP and RIM destroy each other; hopefully, companies like Palm will benefit from that.
I don't really understand why everyone is getting so upset about this. Do you really think the US government will allow anything to happen to RIM? What is it that one high level government official said? Something like: "You can pry it out of my cold dead hands".
Adventure City Tours
Funny, most Blackberry lovers look at it in exactly the opposite way - that their devices are lean, functional, stable machines for doing real work. The Palm and Windows Mobile devices are "pretty" and have lots of useless gadgety features that make them unstable and unsuitable for critical applications.
Why do you think government, police and financial companies are some of the biggest die-hard Blackberry users? It's because they live and die by e-mail, and the Blackberry is the only device that is really reliable and has full e-mail functionality.
Half of the posts I read by Treo and Windows Mobile users say something like "sure it crashes or has weird error messages sometimes, but it plays MP3s and videos and has a camera and wi-fi and and and!!!". The Blackberry fits the opposite niche: sure it doesn't play MP3s or videos or have a camera or wi-fi, but it Just Works(tm).
BTW, to preempt nitpickers, I should say that there is a Wi-Fi BlackBerry with SIP VoIP capability, which it has in lieu of a GSM/GPRS or CDMA radio, not in addition to. It's called the 7270.
fnord.
I have had my 7290 for about two months now, and it is by far the most useful PDA or phone I have ever had, by miles... You think it's only useful for sending mail, and no good as a PDA? I will venture to guess you were not using a Blackberry + BES + Exchange server. Writing myself a task or note, having it sync with the Exchange server is the most useful thing ever. Having full on Exchange Contacts, Tasks, Mail, Calendar, etc., a QWERTY keyboard, an extremely well thought out interface... what more do you need in a PDA? I dont even need to sync it with my laptop, ever, because I use BES. It's all done over the air, in about 2 seconds. I leave my laptop at work now over night, since I have full access to my mail server and all its goodies, plus SSH through the Idokorro SSH/telnet client, on my Blackberry. Help me understand why this is not a good PDA?
American courts helping a Canadian company?
no way. Goodbye RIM, no matter how invalid NTP's patent scam is.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
I worked six months as a TechSup Engineer for the largest Exchange hosting company in the US/World and I learned a lot about handhelds and who uses them for what.
We supported ActiveSync, OMA, Good and BES. Not mention IMAP, OWA, etc. By far, the BB/BES piece was the most broken. Now, I left the co. just as BES Server 4.0 SP2 was rolling, so it may be better now, but we got easily 4-to-1 gripes for BB/BES over Good and or Activesync. The most common, but not the only problem? Over and over and over - wireless synchronization with the server would just break.
No, not because we did not know what we were doing, either. The company I worked for was a Microsoft Gold Certified partner and they consulted with us for their development and QA of Exchange Server (especially) as a hosted service. We had great access to information and support at M$.
We would spend hours diagnosing BB h/w, Exchange server, BES Server, wireless networks, etc. Sometimes wiping handhelds, sometimes deleting and recreating accounts on BES (and losing useful message status info), sometime replacing the BB, etc. It was often a mystery as to what went wrong and which of the several things we tried might have actually been the fix. Sometimes, it would just fix itself, if you struggled long enough.
And then there's the cost. Of course, most BB owners seem to be mucky-mucks that aren't paying out of their pockets in the first place. Their BB is paid for by you and me... err, their company/gov't... who gets their money from you and me. If you run your own BES server, there's a very substantial licensing cost. Then there's the "Blackberry Enterprise" mail service that most WSPs hit you for.
Then there is the Treo650. Except for the unconscionably small amount of usuable RAM, it seems to be a great device. More apps, an interface and form factor most people seem to prefer, etc.
The Pocket PCs seemed to be a really strong product too. Especially with expansion slot/card options. Add free ActiveSync built into Exchange Server and no extra charge from your WSP and you're in nice shape.
I don't own any of them, but when I go to buy, it will NOT be a BB.
In Nature, stupidity is a capital offense. In human society, too many get off with less than a warning.
Now you too can deal with the horrible USPTO PAIR website.
The only concrete example, in those you linked to, of RIM suing for patent infringement is for the QWERTY keyboard on a handheld device
Oh really? Well, here you go. You can pick through them on your own time, as there are an abundance of examples.