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Microsoft Tries To Charm EU With Future Visions
RedStar writes "BBC Online has a piece on Microsoft's visions of the future as shown to Euro MPs in a charm operation." From the article: "This is more a new concept than a new technology, and the real version may still be a year or two away. It would track the mobile phone signals of loved ones, then cross-reference which mobile cell they were in with pre-programmed locations, like the home, school, or workplace. Ms Sellen added: 'This is not very specific at all about where people are, and that's deliberate. We don't want to invade people's privacy too much, so we deliberately keep things very coarse grained.'"
with the data retention laws and you have a totalitarian's wet dream.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
It would track the mobile phone signals of loved ones, then cross-reference which mobile cell they were in with pre-programmed locations, like the home, school, or workplace.
We don't want to be Big Brother. We want to make the tools so you can be Big Brother!
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
Ordinary people will be fed the fuzzy location, based on real data: To a few meters of precision.
I'm so glad big brother is watching me! It's douple-plus good that I'm being watched!
You can't take the sky from me...
So we are going to let an untrustworthy company (Microsoft), stalk our family members (hopefully trust worthy)?
I am happy that Microsoft has decided that they "don't want to invade people's privacy too much", just a little bit. Unfortunately, the 100000 people who hack the system the day after it comes out might not be so generous.
Am I the only one who thinks that some pedophile is going to hack into the system and then start snatching kids?
What are you eating? isItVeg?.
"don't want to invade people's privacy TOO MUCH"
Emphasis mine, of course. But that's just so telling, isn't it?
Your blueberry will be able to get the newest criminal records of your political enemy, shame your blueberry isn't usable after the service had to be downed because of Patent infringement.
Ok, I understand, it's not ready yet. You don't have to keep telling me every two paragraphs how stuff that's in R&D won't be available to buy this Christmas. Jeez.
the layman's guide to computer science
This is not very specific at all about where people are, and that's deliberate.
So everyone will know when you're in the bathroom, but they won't necessarily know if its number one or number two.
I cant wait to stalk my girlfriend with it.
So I wondering which marketing droid read Harry Potter and thought that the Weasley's clock would be cool to have.
We don't want to invade people's privacy too much
:\
Yes. We want to invade their privacy just the right amount.
But on a more serious note, people here might be surprised that UK people (at least those in London, if I recall correctly), aren't as worried about privacy/spying issues as you might think. London has had hundreds of cameras in its metro area to prevent crime. I think it would be a little worrying if it recorded political protests or other citizen-sensitive events. But overall I imagine there's a reduction in person-to-person crime there.
Stop going on about pinpoint precision etc.
Cells aren't also neatly geographically defined things either - they are regions of equal power and so this shape changes, varies in size according to density (high in city BIG in country) etc.
Sometimes your apparent position in terms of cell can jump around hugely across bays and harbours if you come into line of sight of a particularly good tower and out from another, actually closer.
Throw in multiple reflections (the typical way your signal gets to you) and you don't have "tracking" in the sort of sense that GPS does - so stop going on about it a if it does.
We did this stuff way back in 2000 so all these M$ bashing is sorta on the right side of the fence.. you know it's never "real" or never existed until *we* did it.. goes on all the time!
Alex.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a penguin's face - forever."
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
It is also important to remember that although data retention laws require information to be available for security reasons, the Data Protection Act prohibits making that information available to anyone else. In fact, most of Europe has incredibly strict privacy laws - along with laws prohibiting the trade of such information to organizations and companies that are outside the jurisdiction of those privacy laws.
A good solid campaign by European technophiles, to remind Euro MPs (and regular MPs) about the British and European privacy laws with regards to personal data, especially when coupled with reminders of Microsoft's extremely dodgy past on security issues, would be likely to derail Microsoft's efforts entirely, as their proposals are technically illegal and politicians in Europe - at least for now - are eager to NOT be seen aiding and abetting lawbreakers. In fact, a solid-enough campaign that also brought in Microsoft's status in Europe as a monopolist guilty of breaking trade laws might potentially finish off Microsoft in Europe entirely.
Before anyone marks me as rabidly anti-Microsoft (I'm not rabid, I just don't like them), this post is not a condemnation of the corporation. It is merely pointing out that their proposal violates EU privacy directives and assorted national laws. This is more likely ignorance than malice, as America has no concept of privacy, but that simply isn't relevent. It would be relatively easy for someone to spin this in a way that would leave politicians with very cold feet. Politicians aren't generally brave - that's not how to get re-elected. Politicians are professional cowards. No sane coward is going to want to be seen breaking the law - or even potentially breaking it - right now. If that were to be how opponents presented it, most politicos would back off very very quickly.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
"This is more a new concept than a new technology, and the real version may still be a year or two away."
Boy those Microsoft Reserchers are really innovative. I don't know how they keep managing to come up with this stuff
Instead we get some lame gadgets. What is so special about it that this should be shown to people that are supposed to be keeping MS on a short leash?
At best this is a non article about time wasters. At worsed(?) this is the EU being blinded by MS into giving up on its plans to call MS to order.
For some reason I am not to thrilled either about MS research projects. The company always promises a rosy future yet never seems able to deliver. Remember what NT4 was supposed to be? Windows ME? Windows XP? Longhorn/Vista? Exactly when are we getting that damn database like filesystem?
Oh well the MS fanboys should have a nice day.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
is probably the only reason why there isn't yet "security" demands for enabling a cellulars camera remotely. But in the meanwhile: Just imagine of all the fun they have tapping into voluntary video calls :) In all other respects than video surveillance we're way past Orwell's predictions from "1984". Chauchescu must be spinning in his grave over the lost opportunities; The poor old sod only got as far as to sample all the countrys typewriters. What an amateur. Tie the IP up to cellphones, track them and film the environment... now there's a precision tool for the professional peek-a-boo.
Me, I lose the damn thing all the time anyway. "Where's Mama today? Oh look, she's been dropped behind the couch again."
It is a woman's prerogative to change other people's minds.
What we will need, for our protection from 1984, or probably more like 2020, is end user liscence contracts, rather than agreements. The end user should start imposing contracts (union style) on service providers that set out the terms of what the company can and cannot do with information on the customer. This should specifically include limitation on data retention, and use of information for marketing.
This would not seem dissimilar to medical information or even seemingly more confidential, client lawyer relationships.
C'mon, doesn't anyone READ the announcement?
They explicitly said the technology would track your LOVED ONES. If someone WASN'T *your* *loved* *one*, then I think the implication is very clear -- the software simply wouldn't work at all for a person like that! And surely by now they have enough other dirt on you to know if someone is your loved one or not.
A fair go for your loved ones at M$ is all that I'm asking...
Sorry Microsoft, but my carrier has already been doing that for a while now: http://www.personfinder.ph/.
Additionally, when I was working as systems development lead for an SMS applications company, I developed a program that uses two cell sites to triangulate a phone's position based on relative signal strength. It was dropped out of development because ANTS beat us to it.
If this is Microsoft's vision of the future, I guess it would be safe to say "The future is NOW!".
So, this is the future, eh? In Finland we already have had this kind of service for several years already. For example, our biggest mobile phone operator TeliaSonera has been offering a service, where you can query a location of your family members for quite a while now. All participants have to sing for the service separately and personally, so it should be relatively safe, but nonetheless it will give a power to stalk you girlfriend/wife/kids. And I have understood that this will give a location quite accurately (street address etc.).
sadly, most parents have already failed. for some parents, the analogy of the police-state is just fine for them in terms of how they run their household. it's easy to say "get involved," but the fact is that getting involved is a damn sight harder than it sounds for a disturbingly large portion of parents.
in the face of an inability to actually communicate, what's left is oversight (which is true regardless of whether we're talking about the relationship of Big Brother to the People or of Mom and Dad to The Kids).
look at some mobile phone ads even now: the 'parental' motive for giving your kid a phone is that it allows you to keep in contact, or keep in touch. using the phone as a tracking device like this is just a logical extension of that impulse, and i can guarantee that there will be a ready and willing market for it.
/. is what happens when geeks talk. get used to it.
How about you don't invade it at all ? I would really like to be able to carry my mobile phone with me without announcing to everyone who cares to ask where I go, especially since our Glorious Leaders made that little data retention law...
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Yeah, it's not like I have a mobile phone so that people can call me. Obviously I only use my mobile to call others. ;-)
Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think. --Niels Bohr
if you can not dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
How about making laws that forbid the use of public services to spy on people? How much money does it cost the phone company to keep track of everyone's position? All they really need to centralize is how much you owe them, which is currently based on airtime and how far you call. Building data pipes so they can sell the information to vendors like M$ is not just invasive, it's a waste of public money. That kind of gossip should be outlawed.
The M$ wherabouts clock has a default date of 1984. Instead of protecting people's privacy, my government is encouraging data collection of the most detailed sort so it can spy on normal citizens too. I'm disgusted with them all.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
How long until they add a feedback implant? Remotely "zap" someone when they to something you don't approve of. Fat husband goes into a Dunkin Donuts ... Zap! ... boyfriend goes into a porn shop ... ZAP! ... someone boots linux instead of Windows(tm)(C) ... ZZZZAAAAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!!!.
With the historic Microsoft security, you know someone will 0WN the whole thing within a week, applying continuous DOS Zaps.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.