Slashdot Mirror
Testing Drugs on India's Poor
theodp writes to tell us Wired is reporting that a lot of medical research firms are using India's poor as a hot test bed. From the article: "The sudden influx of drug companies to India resembles the gold rush frontier, according to Sean Philpott, managing editor of The American Journal of Bioethics. 'Not only are research costs low, but there is a skilled work force to conduct the trials'"
"Doctors are easier to recruit for trials because they don't have to go through the same ethics procedures as their Western colleagues," Ecks said. "And patients ask fewer questions about what is going on."
I can't tell if he's being serious, but if he truly does have no moral qualms about that last statement, then he frightens me.
cheers, ben
Never miss a good chance to shut up -- Will Rogers
FTA: "But in March, everything changed when India submitted to pressure from the World Trade Organization to stop the practice and implement rules that prohibit local companies from creating generic versions of patented drugs."
WHy do they want to prevent that? What about in the U.S. where we have things like Walgreen's Wal-tussin to compete with Robitussin (same ingredients, cheaper cost for the consumer)? (same with Sudafed, etc.) Does this fall under the kind of thing WTO wants to stop?
They are getting paid for it, a nice enough sum that it's worth their health and life. They aren't being forced or coerced into it.
Some would say the difference between life as a dahlit and life as a dahlit after being paid for it is most certainly a form of force and coercion.
Besides, these people don't have much use in society or a future, especially in India's caste society. This is an excellent opportunity for them to contribute something to better mankind and benefit the rest of us. We should be applauding and congratulating them for their sacrifice. We shouldn't try to take this away from them.
So you agree- givent he caste system they don't have any real choice at all.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I'm not sure what kind of FDA-equivalent the Indian government has, but there's definitely an advantage to conducting your human trials in places where people aren't breathing down your neck.
I'll bet that India and the rest of the "developing" world will be the next scientific powers given their highly educated and motivated workforce, and the fact that they're a little less backward when it comes to science. Example: South Korea is taking on a cloning project while we're still fighting over teaching evolution in school, abortion and stem cell research.
Sometimes it makes me wish we'd let the South win the civil war. They could live in backward redneck-land and the rest of the country could get on with evolving the species.
If you have seen the film "Constant Gardener", you can see the problems associated with this practice. The main problem is lack of accountability. So what if a couple people die from these drug tests. They are poor, no one is going to miss them. No one will fight for them.
How is this any different than the poor people here who get paid to test drugs? Just because it's happening in India now as well it's news? Yes India is another developed country just like ours with people who want to get paid to pop pills. As well as get paid to do all the same things we do. It's not like they're an alien race or something.
The Constant Gardener anyone?
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be
This isin't about saving a few bucks (yes I know its more then a few bucks) on medical testing its about not respecting human life in an equal manner.
"Third World lives are worth much less than the European lives. That is what colonialism was all about," said Srirupa Prasad, a visiting assistant professor of medical history and bioethics at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
hits the nail on the head. unfortunatly.
Reality is a big nasty dragon. Fortunately I don't believe in dragons.
Corporate pigs shipping work out to places that have NO health and safety laws... all in the name of short term shareholder profits. These bastards have NO ethics... how would they feel if they themselves were on the breadline with no job protection and the only work available being dirty, shit jobs exported from countries that should know better
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
For years people right here in the US have been selling body fluids and enrolling in drug trials to make extra cash.
But there's a moral issue when it is done in some other country?
Can we quite patronizing the people? They're poor not retarded.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
You are the most callous person I have seen among the ./ crowd.
Sure, let the street girls turn the tricks. They are getting paid for it. Otherwise they might end up on welfare and we will have to share the burden of assisting them through taxes.
This sounds like a recipe for disaster. I, personally, would avoid drugs that had not been tested on people genetically similar to myself. People are not identical in their ability to absorb, metabolize, respond to, or excrete medications. A drug that works well in one population can easily fail to help (or have fatal side effects) in people in a different population.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Yeah, you're right. Without question. But someone's gotta be the first to test a drug. The real problem here is that the drug companies are trying to act without the restrictions of the US. Were they operating under the same restrictions over there, then I really wouldn't have much of a problem here at all, since someone, somewhere, has to be the first.
The US/FDA COULD refuse to accept or deny the right to sale to any drug that is tested without adhering to the same restrictions/rules that they would have to in the US. Test subjects would still be cheaper, but at least there would be incentive for treating these people decently.
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
are a result of the many barbaric experiments done by Nazi scientists
on their prisoners back in WWII.
I think this is not exactly the case. More to the tune of "...a lot of the medical advancements we enjoyed in the 50s and 60s..."
So are the insights they gained from their immoral experiements bad enough that we shouldnt use it on moral grounds?
Back then, the origin of the studies was just conveniently forgotten. Unlike Dr. Mengele, his boss (Adolf Butenandt) managed to continue his career in post-war Germany - mainly by vigorously destroying every evidence of his deeds. Mengele fled to South America but his research was (in parts) considered the de-facto standard until the early sixties - he himself being a good scape-goat, too, taking most of the guilt of the rest of the staff with him.
The reason, the concentration-camps were so attractive to all kinds of bio-scientist at that time were really two-fold:
- total lack of regulations
- the possibility to generate an mind-staggering amount of samples in a very short time
(previous studies on twins, one of Dr. Mengele's favorite projects, had taken years and were taken on a much smaller sample)I must assume, it's the same in India today, again: lot's of samples, little paper-work. If corporations don't apply any ethics, things will run out of control, again. It may even run out of control with more regulation - after all, who can counter the killer-argument of "but it may cure xyz-cancer or AIDS".
In the current climate of "sacrifice some lives for many/some freedoms for the big-picture", it's only a small step.
Don't rely on the assumption that scientists will just do "the right thing" - more often than not, the prospect of being able to "advance science" will just open new abysses, which later generations will look down with disgust and horror.
cheers,
Rainer
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
I think as long as the human animals involved can make an informed choice and aren't physically forced or coerced to participate, PeTA will indeed be thrilled.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
"Their love of profits make them test life-saving drugs on people instead of doing the decent thing and going out of business (giving their drugs to noone). If only they knew that their profits are what make people sick in the world."
/. post:
Fool. The issue at hand here is that these people are poor and vulnerable. Testing drugs on them is abusive. Maybe you failed to pick up the point that this is exploitation, and without the dehabilitating poverty, these Indians would never consider being part of the research program.
The moral here, as I saw very well illustrated in another
"If you don't give a fuck when it's not your ass on the line, don't except anyone else to give a fuck when it is"
The lesson here:
You're a selfish fuck, who doesn't give a damn about anyone except yourself.
Ethics matter; ethics help assure good science.
There's definitely an advantage to conducting your human trials in places where people aren't breathing down your neck.
Ever frakkin' wonder why the FDA dares to breath down peoples necks? Do you think that people should be informed of the risks of the test; the potential for long term harm. Do you want pharmaceutical companies to document the positive and the adverse reactions of medical testing?
Thank God we've found poor, uneducated people living in a country with a rampant caste system - where the poor are of even less spiritual value than the elite! Testing can proceed apace. And don't worry, the ends do justify the means.
Gee, the South Koreans can have cloning by having one of their lab assistants donate her eggs - amongst numerous other problems with that particular series of experiments.
/* Dang, I can't type that well. */
This need not even be a Bad Thing. The janitor in the school where I work participates in medical studies three or four times a year (as much as he is allowed to) and he makes more money than I do. He doesn't suffer a bit from it and if I had more spare time I would consider joining him. Clinical studies are not necessarily dangerous. Sometimes they just want to see if a medicine has side effects, makes you sleepy or so. I don't think they want to find out the mortality rate.
However, when a corporation decides to "shop around" and find the cheapest solution to their problem, I don't see how that's not just a large-scale version of when I go on Froogle to find the cheapest place to get my new DVD burner.
This whole scenario plays into what economists call "factor price equalization". The idea goes something like this: Let's say you're in the business of manufacturing something (like a car engine or whatnot). You've got all of your manufacturing pieces in place except for one: you need ten thousand washers placed on ten thousand bolts. For doing this job, "Joe American" in Detroit wants $10/hr, plus medical, dental, and vision coverage... and 2 weeks per year paid vacation. Meanwhile, Shankar in India will do the same job for $4/day and requires none of the other benefits.
Now, if "Joe American" were able to put the washer on the bolt with an expertise, precision, and efficiency that was simply unmatched by Shankar, then there might be a reason to pay him the 20x as much. However, even if there was such a disparity in skill, it would also have to be worth it to you to have the washers put on the bolts with that extra skill.
Alas, in reality, there is no skill disparity when it comes to tasks as simple as this, so the American worker can offer no advantage to the employer to justify his high price. The "equalization" part of Factor-Price Equalization theory is the observation that, eventually, the prices (in wages and benefits) charged by Joe American and Shankar will equalize. Eventually, increasing competition for Indian labor will drive their price up, while Joe American will finally come to the realization that simply having been born in the USA doesn't make up for the fact that he never finished high-school and he'll face the fact that the value of his labor is much lower than what he was, up until now, able to get away with.
The lesson is clear: If you want to be well-compensated for your work, you need to be able to do something that... A) few other people can do (ie, low supply), and B) many people want/need done (ie, high demand). This lesson isn't new. It's just that we're now starting to see a decrease in people being able to get away with not heeding it.
Now, like I said at the outset, the fact that there exist such squalid conditions in India (and countless other parts of the world) might qualify as a travesty (and how is employing these people doing anything but working towards eliminating that?), but... as has been pointed out here numerous times... the hundreds of workers showing up every day don't consider themselves to be exploited. They call it opportunity.
Except that though the choice may be semi-informed, it won't be free when the person has a choice between being killed by drugs or killed by starvation (along with their family). There's a reason why India is being targeted. I think I can do without those drugs. Even if not using them shortens my life.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's