Departure Of The Java Hyper-Enthusiasts?

TomH writes "Bruce Eckel has an article at Aritma, where he posits that 'The Java hyper-enthusiasts have left the building, leaving a significant contingent of Java programmers behind, blinking in the bright lights without the constant drumbeat of boosterism.' Has the previous hype of Java and J2EE moved on to Ruby (on Rails) and Python?"

Comments

Switched to decaf, did they.

[Orrin Bloquy]

Sorry.

How about this quote?

[$RANDOMLUSER]

> Ruby is to Perl what C++ was to C.

My worst write-only nightmare...
*runs screaming from building*

Slashdot Libs

[AugstWest]

(Slashdot reader) writes, "(Uknown pundit) wrote an article about (Technology that we're not currently fond of), based on conjecture and personal opinion. Does this mean that (Technology flavor of the month) is taking over?

Has the previous hype of Java and J2EE moved on?

[plopez]

Of course it has. IT actually is not too far removed from the fashion industry.

about 10 years ago:
Cast off those old tired relational databases! It's all object databases! It new! It's modern! It's chic!

C++? So passe'! The greatest thing is Java! So trendy, so fresh!

In the past few years:
Object databases are not with it! XML databases are the way to go! So modern! So *you*!

Now:
It's Ruby on Rails! What are you thinking using that dingy old Java! So... last season! Step into the 21st century!

etc.

The only thing I can think of which is more fad driven are diet books and management crazes (E.g. '7 habits of Effective Plan Z 2 Minute TQM EManagement iCommerce Gurus for Dummies (but were afraid to ask)').

Yet another reason to leave IT.

No "serious development" on Python?

[Zancarius]

No one I've met doing serious development is building on python, it's just too error prone.

I don't suppose you've heard of this company before?

There are dozens of others, too. I'll cite this page as a source, though it is by no means comprehensive.

It's gone to .NET

[Brandybuck]

Has the previous hype of Java and J2EE moved on to Ruby (on Rails) and Python?

No, the hype has moved on to C# and .NET. The religiosity people have towards Microsoft's semi-proprietary technology is definitely reminiscent of the 1990's Java hype. Especially among management (who think they've finally found the silver bullet).

I don't blame people for getting excited over .NET, because compared to MFC and traditional COM, it's a wonderful thing. But many people are going overboard on it.

Nope. I will have another order of java thank you

[Billly Gates]

I am really just rediscovering Java now and the API's are very nice.

Java is stable, mature, and scalable, right out of the package. Python is nice for small projects and scripts but Java's strength is not the language. Its the api's and framework as well as the ton of third party software for it. For large sites Java is still the best way to go. Especially for ecommerce sites for businesses. Php is not there yet and is quite inconsistant with a immaturish feeling. Results vary drastically depending on who wrote what. There are tons of third party java objects and programs that co-exist and integrate with your java based servlets.

Java seems to have found its niche since multiplatform desktop applets never took off. Not to mention java is pleasant to debug and the tools are nice.

Re:maybe to ruby, not python

[latin_fury]

That's funny, reddit.com just switched to Python (http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit). And Google uses Python extensively inside the company, and just hired Guido van Russom, Python's creator. There are many more examples out there if you bothered to look.

Re:A Humble Note

[timeOday]

Java is one of the first languages that was well planned and well designed with a theoretical basis in mind.

I think you have to narrow that claim for it to be true:

ML has a deep, solid formal foundation with type safety and provable semantics.

Prolog has a foundation in inductive logic.

Lisp is based in lambda calculus.

SQL is rooted in set theory.

Now, Java may be the first commercially popular marriage of mainstream (C++) syntax which at least has provable type safety. That's a good thing in itself.

Re:maybe to ruby, not python

[adamhupp]

A few comments:

1. I've started using Turbogears and its is wonderful. Easy to setup, very easy to understand, and very powerful. I cannot comment on it with respect to Rails, but as far as I know it is inspired by similar ideas. One major advantage of Turbogears is that it is built out of several existing projects that have had lots of use and development, SQLObject (for Object-Relational mapping) and CherryPy.

2. I can't imagine any reason to believe Python would be more error-prone than Ruby. From a language standpoint they are very similar. However, Ruby is a somewhat immature language compared to Python. Standard library, 3rd party support and performance are all lacking in Ruby. I'm sure these things will catch up in time, but for now it's a much newer environment and it shows.

Another Religious War

[slipnslidemaster]

Just another religious war.

C++ vs. Java
C vs. C++
C++ vs. Smalltalk
Lisp vs. everybody
Perl vs. PHP
Javascript vs. VBscript
VB vs. C++
Delphi vs. VB

Haven't we moved past this language is great but this language sucks yet?

You use the tool that will get the job done the best and easiest. If you tried hard enough, you could probably use the Lotus 123 macro language (showing my age) to write a web app, but would you want too? With someone of these languages, Python, Perl, PHP, Ruby, Java they are similar enough that they are all good enough for the same jobs. Languages are tools that programmers use to write applications. Personally, I like PHP and Ruby but I'm not knocking those that like Phython or Java.

Why knock that someone likes another language?

Why another religious war over Ruby vs. Java?

Re:Hype?

[AKAImBatman]

To be fair, Java's hype was well deserved. It was the first platform with a highly complete API set included in the core, it was the first dynamic web server technology that used a multithreaded model in addition to runtime-compiled code (bye-bye CGI), it was the first language with reflection designed into its core, and it was the first language to bring OOP, Virtual Machine, and cross-platform capabilities together into a workable package.

No other language has ever managed to pull off what Java has. In fact, it was the driving force behind the modern push for cross-platform languages, complete (and free) API libraries, and Object Oriented Programming. I look back at days before Java, and they seem like the dark ages of computers.

If Java has lost its hype, it's only because it's already accomplished all its goals. :-)

Disingenuous

[smcdow]

ROR is nice but let's get real - ruby isn't as fast ...

Please. For years the Java wonks have been calling performance a strawman argument, usually followed with "get a faster machine".

Now they're using exactly the same performance argument to argue against what is now one of the premier up-and-coming programming environments? Now the table turns; if ROR or my fave the Python-based TurboGears is too slow -- well then, get a faster machine. That argument worked with Java; now it works with Java's replacements.

GWBASIC still rules!

[M1FCJ]

Nothing can beat this beauty:
10 PRINT "TEXT"

then you would do
GWBASIC FILE.BAS

Beats "python file.py" every time...

Fake arguments involving hello world apps should not be taken as a way of comparing languages.