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Learning Java or C# as a Next Language?
AlexDV asks: "I'm currently a second-term, CIS major at DeVry University. This coming term, I will have the choice of studying either Java or C# for my Object Oriented Programming class. Now I'm a diehard Linux user, so I'm slightly conflicted here. Which should I take?"
"I know C#.NET is primarily a Microsoft language, but, with Mono gaining momentum, it could very well become a major development platform for Linux as well. Novell has really been pushing it lately, and there seems to be a lot of very cool Linux apps being developed with it.
Java, on the other hand, is inherently more Linux-friendly due to its intentional cross-platform nature, but at the same time it doesn't really seem to be inspiring the same kind of developer enthusiasm as Mono. However, it's clearly not an insignificant OSS development language, with the recent news that Java has surpassed C++ as the #1 language for SourceForge projects.
Anyway, I though I'd toss that out there and get some opinions from other Slashdot readers. Any thoughts, advice, and/or rants are appreciated :)"
Java, on the other hand, is inherently more Linux-friendly due to its intentional cross-platform nature, but at the same time it doesn't really seem to be inspiring the same kind of developer enthusiasm as Mono. However, it's clearly not an insignificant OSS development language, with the recent news that Java has surpassed C++ as the #1 language for SourceForge projects.
Anyway, I though I'd toss that out there and get some opinions from other Slashdot readers. Any thoughts, advice, and/or rants are appreciated :)"
just pick one, and then learn the other on your own. don't fool yourself into thinking that one will be more important by the time you graduate.
the field changes very quickly so if you learn to be flexible, you'll be more ready for the new languages and systems that are around a year or two after you start working too
remember -- languages and programming is fun! if it's not fun for you then you are in the wrong field and you should seriously think about that early on.
...is being taught by a better professor.
Cheers,
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
Learn Java. And try to use it in the Linux environment. Basically, what is important here is not the fact that you are going to learn a certain language, but that you will learn how to write object oriented code. Once you learn that, you can pick up c#, c++, etc.
The advantage of Java in my mind is that it can be used in a Linux environment where you will be forced to understand the "application creation" process from top to bottom, as opposed to a Window environment where you just write the code and let the OS and the tools provided do all the other work for you.
Learning a new language is trivial. Make sure that you understand the CONCEPTS of coding.
What are the instructors like? That should matter more.
A class at that level is supposed to be about some "concept". Either OOP, or databases, or design, or algorithms... If the class is JUST about the language/platform, then don't even bother taking the class. Unless you have some industry/job specific need to learn a language, then I would avoid it.
Some instructors end up getting bogged down in platform specific issues. For example, ADO when the course should instead be about databases.
So, I'd figure out which instructor will offer the most conceptual learning. Language doesn't matter... unless the FCC is involved. Learn concepts, theory, good practices, etc.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
visual studio which will cost you a fortune
Come again?
Exactly. And if you've intelligence greater than that of a gnat you pick the right language for the job.
Unfortunately there are the questions of support and "shop language", which will often overrule the most well reasoned case for using the best tool. I fought it a few times, ultimately losing in one costly case (costly because we eventually had to scrap the alternative and go back to what I'd argued for in the first place.)
When it's your own box, choose wisely, not fasionably.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
You can learn the latest fad programming language and keep it on your resume' for a 10+, (Java),20+ (C, C++), or 50 (COBOL) year lifespan, but why must it be one-or-the-other?
Every program in a programming language has its purpose; to get system to behave in a certain way in a finite number of steps. School is there to teach you the fundamentals; that you can use as a basis to expand your knowledge with new knowledge, and get a feel for the idioms and syntax. Ask not what language to learn, but what can you do with the language.
No. No you should not.
You're going to learn the same programming concepts in either course? Then at the risk of sounding a bit cynical, pick the one you would rather have on your resume. That's really the only difference here.
It's much easier to learn object-oriented design from Java. Sun is basically an engineering company, and they make nice clean hardware and software from a theoretical standpoint. You'll see examples throughout the API and language, often with explanations why the design was chosen (for example why the collections are designed the way they are). You can read the discussions at the Java Community Process and find out why changes were made and what lesser designs were considered.
If you want to write okay code that works, VB-style, go with C#/.NET. Microsoft tends to slap together code in any way that works, without much thought to good design... or rather they just don't know good design (they have no sense of taste). You'll see a lot of marketing-inspired APIs and code that behaves strangely because it is tied to their old Win32 apis. But, your results will work better on Windows.
C# != MSJava;
J# == MSJava;
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wow, visual studio for free for one year man ... what should i do after 366 days ?
... "dam this is cheap ..."
and did you forget that i have to buy an entire worthless operating system just to run this damn visual studio ? and if i wanna be up to date after 3 years i'd have to buy another bloody version of windows and get another licence for visual studio
i'd go with java, but not because of the cost, but because java will be the same after 3 years whereas the next versions of C# will probably blow the current version away. C# is far from being a mature language. your java knowledge today is still valid after 3 years from now. but the C# you learn today may be worth less than my posting here on slashdot.
i just recently reviewd mono on my ubuntu box, and i'm sad to say that c# doesn't impress me much. i mean it's ok but expected something much more. if it doesn't really offer anything fascinating that java already has, where's the point ?
ps. was i just lazy while reading the c# api or did i really not spot the dynamic classloaders which open a totally another dimension in java ?
I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
I know Java and am fairly comfortable with C# as well, yet I put 90% of my effort into Java and C because my job market, Northern Virginia, relies heavily on federal contract work which is almost always standardized on J2EE. Be practical. If your area is very pro-Microsoft, don't waste your time with Java because it will make you less marketable. Focus your time instead on learning good OOP practices, take a few CS courses on things like data structures and algorithms and you'll be set.
This is of course coming from a recently graduated CS major, so take it for what it's worth.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Most people will probably say learn Java, particularly on /.. Java programmers are extremely common. The company I work for had a hell of a time hiring a C# developer with any experience. .NET is the future of development on any MS platform. For an entry level position, if you're looking for jobs, I don't think it will matter, but smaller shops are not going to want to spend the time for you to get familiar with the nuances of whatever language they are using. I think that C# has a larger potential for quick rewards right now since there are so few programmers compared to a rising demand. In the long run, though, I don't think it will make much different and the two are similar in most aspects.
and did you forget that i have to buy an entire worthless operating system just to run this damn visual studio ?
The majority of the world is using that particular worthless operating system. If you program for that platform, you may want it available for testing.
i'd go with java, but not because of the cost, but because java will be the same after 3 years whereas the next versions of C# will probably blow the current version away.
Are you sure that Java never changes?
He's learning the language, not using it for writing enterprise scale apps. There is a difference.
If you are writing enterprise scale apps, you'd be an idiot to use the express version. If you want to write enterprise scale apps, buy it from MS - what's wrong in MS demanding that you pay them for it when after all, you are trying to make money out of it?
*shakes head*
Free for the first hit? Your comparison is ridiculous - they've made it free so that you can use it for educational and non-commercial purposes. If you want to do commercial development, pay them. I see nothing wrong in that - it's the way businesses work.
But oh wait, you mean they ought to give it to you for free while you can make money out of it? Nice one, there.
But oh wait, you mean they ought to give it to you for free while you can make money out of it?
That's what their competition is doing.
And your reading cmomprehension is also pretty low. It is for the express version; For practical reasons, it is useless for the professional evironment.
So? I'll learn C# off the Express version, and Java off Sun's compiler. If the company wants to use Java, good for them. If the company wants me to use Visual, let them pay for the real version, and good for them too.
I'm not seeing the problem. It's intentionally an Express version so people can learn from it for free. In a corporate environment, you pay for a proper version of Visual with better features, more optimization, real support, etc.
You should be able to program in any language.
The right question is to ask what systems you should be learning? What problem solving techniques should you be studying? What software engineering technique is approriate to use?
You should be able to pick up any language on the fly. Languages are a dime a dozen. Systems such as database systems, operating systems and graphic systems are dramatically different. What language you use to access them is immaterial or should be. If you understand the internal workings of a database you'll be far better served when developing database applications then spending time studying the intricacies of a language. Use what you need. It's silly to become familiar with all aspects of a language when you are only called upon to use 10% or 20% within the scope of a project.
Open source ide for c#: windows (sharpdevelop) , on linux (monodevelop), on mac (monodevelop).
Open source ide for java: for all platforms either eclipse or netbeans.
Question of c# or java: really there is not much difference between c# and java, just like comparing a brand of apples as opposed to apples and oranges. Really the decision is do you want to be in the microsoft world or not. If not stick to java. If you do stick to microsoft - hope they do not change direction in the future.....
"It'd be pretty silly to be missing something like dlopen or LoadLibrary..." Just like missing checked exceptions? Yeah that would be silly.
c eptions
I'm pretty sure dynamic class loading has been around longer than Java, or even unchecked exceptions. So I say it would be sillier to be missing a way to dynamically load classes.
Out of curiosity, how many "major" languages have checked exceptions? Java is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
It's been a while since I worked with Java, and I'm far from an expert. But when I was dinking around with it, I found it extremely annoying that I had to label every function that could possibly throw an exception. The compiler needed to be smart enough to detect whether a function might throw an exception, in order to tell me that I had forgotten to label it... So if the compiler can tell this without me telling it so explicitly, that pretty much relegates the label to syntax-enforced documentation.
Not to mention people got so sick of being required to write pointless code to handle pointless exceptions, that they figured out a ways to hack around it, making the checking useless:
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5559
All of that seems silly to me. But that's just MHO.
Or maybe it's not just mine. This guy, and many others, seem to agree that checked exceptions in general are kind of silly:
http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/CheckedEx