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Why Haven't Online Newspapers Gotten it Right?

An anonymous reader writes "Kirk McElhearn, writing at Kirkville, discusses why he thinks that online newspapers aren't up to snuff. While his article reflects an "old-fashioned" way of looking at newspapers, that is by reading them on paper as opposed to on the web, many of his points are valid. Most newspaper web sites are poorly designed, and don't easily inspire readers to read their content. He doesn't offer any solutions (other than getting rid of ads to make stories more readable) but the issues he raises do merit reflection by newspapers and other websites with large amounts of content."

34 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. The billion dollar question... by dada21 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Online sites in generally haven't gotten it right. If you can't read it on the porcelein throne, it isn't perfect.

    That being said, look at what online publishers have to deal with: non-uniformity. HTML is very powerful, but we still can't guarantee that an article will look as nice on everyone else's monitor as it does on the publisher's. Digital fonts still have a VERY long way to go versus paper printed ones -- kerning and other newspaper processes are not as easy to perform in HTML.

    PDF is a solution, but not a good one. HTML is far faster on every connection than PDF ever will be (try getting PDFs to look good on your mobile device).

    AJAX won't help here because we're mostly talking about static data, and you run up against the different resolutions, screen sizes and operating system problems again.

    I've seen some sites that use preset pixel-sizes tables and frames, and that keeps the site more consistent in look-and-feel, but still doesn't look the same system to system and browser to browser. If you have a huge monitor or a tiny one, these pages are a pain to browse.

    Raster? Too big and too restrictive.

    Flash? Does anyone actually use flash for content anymore?

    I can't figure it out -- and I do believe that whoever DOES figure it out will have a pretty penny hitting them from the dead tree publishers.

    I've been working on that problem for nearly 15 years. It bugged me back in my BBS running days. My only "solutions" I've come up with is to dump the browser entirely and offer "newspaper skins" for another type of Internet program: something that grabs raw articles from RSS or other feeds, displays them in the format YOU want to read them in, and even print them out newspaper-style. It isn't a great solution since it would require another app on devices that already are being app-downsized. RSS is key in this situation, but I don't think the RSS reader is the best way to display the information.

    1. Re:The billion dollar question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That being said, look at what online publishers have to deal with: non-uniformity. HTML is very powerful, but we still can't guarantee that an article will look as nice on everyone else's monitor as it does on the publisher's. Digital fonts still have a VERY long way to go versus paper printed ones -- kerning and other newspaper processes are not as easy to perform in HTML.

      Remember the slashdot article a few weeks ago about choosing the perfect web font? The general consensus from /.ers was that publishers have no right dictating the layout or what fonts are used to display the information. Making proclamations like that leads us to situations where people bitch about things looking like crap on screen. Either the publisher has a say in the presentation or they don't. Don't complain if it looks like crap when you tell them you don't want their input, though.

    2. Re:The billion dollar question... by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Online sites in generally haven't gotten it right. If you can't read it on the porcelein throne, it isn't perfect.

      It's called a laptop and 802.11. There was a stat released recently reporting that a significant percentage of wireless networking users have taken advantage of it in the can...am I posting this post from the bathroom???? >gruntHTML is very powerful, but we still can't guarantee that an article will look as nice on everyone else's monitor as it does on the publisher's....try getting PDFs to look good on your mobile device

      You are detailing two different problems. On the one hand, there is a desire for WYSIWYG authoring with exact rendering (e.g. PDF, as you detail). On the other hand there is a desire for client-specific layouts, conveying the content while allowing for a versatile layout based upon the limitations of the target (e.g. HTML). You can't really solve both simultaneously.

    3. Re:The billion dollar question... by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Online sites in generally haven't gotten it right. If you can't read it on the porcelein throne, it isn't perfect.

      I don't think that's it at all. If you had cheap digital paper newspapers hooked wirelessly up to the Internet, it would make no difference at all.

      The bottom line is demography. Serious people of my generation read newspapers and possibly some news magazines to get news. We may listen to radio because we can do it in the car. Middle-aged Joe Sixpack gets it from the 6 O'Clock news.

      Young people don't read newspapers at all. Older people will say its because they're philistines, and maybe we're right, but I don't think that's it either.

      I think what we're seeing is the death of the passive media consumer.

      Young people embrace media that is directly interactive (blogging), searchable (google) or which is minimalist but can be snapped together in custom ways (rss based services like podcasts and news feeds). I don't think young people even watch TV nearly as much as middle aged people did at their age.

      If I am correct, I think that fine control of presentation of content is the wrong focus. What newspapers have traditionally provided is trustworthy content backed by their reputation, that connects people to the interlocking communities they participate in. This is a critical service, now more than ever. Yes, considerable effort went into designing the presentation so that it is convenient and attractive, but that wasn't where the value is. Customers simply had no means of obtaining, organizing and navigating information on their own, so the providers had to do it for them. That's simply not true anymore.

      Kids aren't impresed by the heft and gravitas of the "Grey Lady" look of the New York Times; they are so media saavy that they understand that this look is a conscious marketing choice on the part of the NYT. If anything, I think kids would prefer to be able to skin the newspaper accordig to their own preferences.

      Now, more than ever, we need the society building power of professional journalism. But the business model is not there to support it. I've often thought a government backed electronic nanocurrency, with a transaction size limit of, say, $0.25 would be a huge boon to information providers.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:The billion dollar question... by RobbieGee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point is that the publisher only gets to suggest the font/layout/whatever, while the user has the final say. Most users will see what the publisher intended, while those who wishes to customize their browser can do so. A girl I know from a long time ago is blind, and the internet came as a blessing for her, though the web was a bit hard to use. It is getting better and better in terms of usability for the disabled though, but some people want to take that away becase it's not "pwetty enough". Keep the web open and fight for standards!

      --
      If you get this, we're 10 of a kind.
    5. Re:The billion dollar question... by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That being said, look at what online publishers have to deal with: non-uniformity. HTML is very powerful, but we still can't guarantee that an article will look as nice on everyone else's monitor as it does on the publisher's. Digital fonts still have a VERY long way to go versus paper printed ones -- kerning and other newspaper processes are not as easy to perform in HTML.

      This really isn't a problem, and never was. And until people brought up on traditional media understand it isn't a problem, they won't use the Web effectively. Disclosure: I am a fully qualified offset litho machine operator.

      Yes, OK, the Web can't do in terms of consistency of image what an offset litho machine can do. But what the Web can do is not worse than what an offset litho machine can do; it's far, far better. The Web can render your content in the reader's preferred font at the reader's preferred font size - the size your reader is comfortable with, finds easy to use. Do not dictate to your user - he knows how good his eyesight is, you don't.

      Being obsessed with precise layout - the sort of problem which means that the BBC's site can never use more than a third of the width of my desktop display, but is unreadable on my phone because of sideways scrolling - is failing to understand and to exploit the medium. If you can't design your site templates to reflow gracefully to make use of the reader's screen and the reader's preferences, you have fundamentally failed.

      My only "solutions" I've come up with is to dump the browser entirely and offer "newspaper skins" for another type of Internet program: something that grabs raw articles from RSS or other feeds, displays them in the format YOU want to read them in, and even print them out newspaper-style. It isn't a great solution since it would require another app on devices that already are being app-downsized. RSS is key in this situation, but I don't think the RSS reader is the best way to display the information.

      Your computer already has an application on it designed to do precisely this. It's called a 'Web Browser'.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    6. Re:The billion dollar question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      A webpage can be made to be totally accessible to the disabled while still retaining good design principles. You seem to think that the two are mutually exclusive.

    7. Re:The billion dollar question... by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Very well written post, however I'd like to pick a minor nit--

      I don't think young people even watch TV nearly as much as middle aged people did at their age.

      I disagree here. People my agegroup (early 20s) watch tons of TV, it's just nearly all mindless entertainment, rather than news and current events or educational

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    8. Re:The billion dollar question... by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful


      I disagree. The journalists are part of the reason of the failure of the media in recent years.


      I see this part of the death of journalism, because of the inability to create a business model which rewards trustworthiness. Back in the day, newspapapers were practically civic institutions. Today, people in the journalism profession find themselves as working in divisions of media companies.

      Journalists, to me, are people who keep journals of their opinions and of the news of the day -- and I like to see DIFFERENT reports, not the same damn things.

      To me, what you are describing is a columnist, not a journalist. I think of a journalist as somebody who collects and verifies data, and presents it in an informative way. What you are complainign about comes directly from the business model: fact gathering and verification, while far more valuable than opinion, are more than proportionately expensive, and therefore less profitable. It makes sense therefore to outsource fact gathering and differentiate yourself with cheap opinionizing.

      I don't care one bit about national news, why should anyone?

      When your federal tax rate goes up, it affects you locally. When federal moneys are spent in your district, it affects you locally. When monetary policy changes prices or interest rates, it affects you locally. When we go to war, it affects you locally. When the economy shifts entire jobs from one country to another, it affects you locally. I could go on, but you get the picture.

      I want to know what is happening locally and in specific markets, I don't care that some baby was murdered 500 miles away, or that some new corporation was caught ripping off shareholders.

      Well, while I don't see the examples you cite as completely irrelevant to people who aren't in the geographic locality, I think you are right that local information is a huge gap for people who aren't regular readers of their local newspaper. If you don't subscribe to such a locally rooted journalism source, you naturally don't get local news.

      Bandwidth-everywhere will give them what they want.

      Perhaps, but will it give them what they need. Since by in large the younger generation has never been a consumer of local journalism, they won't get the things you say are missing. I agree podCasts may become more important, but I don't think subscriptions are going to support the kind of journalism we need. I think we need a combination of subscribable content, high quality and ubiquitous wireless networking, and enhanced add on information services added to free content and backed by micropayments a la the iTunes store.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    9. Re:The billion dollar question... by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not saying young people today don't watch a lot of TV. Just less than most of us did. Think of all the time you spend gaming, blogging, or just messing around on the Internet. We didn't have the Internet. Computer games were much more primitive, fewer people had them, and nobody grew with them.

      So what do you think most of us did with all that time you spend wiht new media? We watched whatever was on TV, whether we liked it or not, just because it was before or after something we wanted to watch, or because there was nothing better on. I doubt young people today are as fixated on the glass teat as we were.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    10. Re:The billion dollar question... by Bogtha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That being said, look at what online publishers have to deal with: non-uniformity. HTML is very powerful, but we still can't guarantee that an article will look as nice on everyone else's monitor as it does on the publisher's.

      I can't figure it out

      You can't figure it out because you are starting from an incorrect premise - that variability is a bad thing. It's not. It's a good thing. If I've paid loads of money for a high-quality, high-res monitor, I'm not going to want an identical down-to-the-pixel replica of what my neighbour with poor eyesight running 800x600 gets. And they won't want what I get, because they probably couldn't read it.

      The real problems with the "preset pixel-size tables" you are talking about is that the newspapers are taking experience from one medium - print - and trying to shoehorn another medium - the web - into the exact same mould. That attitude completely ignores what's great about the new medium, and brings a load of old baggage and assumptions from the old medium that are no longer true and in fact harmful.

      The web isn't paper. Stop trying to pretend that it is, and a lot of the problems go away.

      My only "solutions" I've come up with is to dump the browser entirely and offer "newspaper skins" for another type of Internet program: something that grabs raw articles from RSS or other feeds, displays them in the format YOU want to read them in, and even print them out newspaper-style.

      That is all possible today, in existing browsers. User/user-agent stylesheets can accomplish all that assuming the HTML provided is sensible and doesn't try and dictate particular layouts. In fact, Opera already comes with similar features.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  2. Dont make me register! by Gothmolly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just what I need, another username and password which, if I ever change browsers, will be lost. For what? Content that I can get elsewhere online, or through word-of-mouth chitchat at the office? Trust me, I am NOT clicking your banner ads, so the # of distinct page views is a meaningless metric to try and track. Just give me the content, or don't do it. The usefulness of the online medium is the a la carte mentality, don't try and apply an old model to it. Or come up with a way for anonymous micropayments (again, no FSCKING username/password) and for .25 USD, I'll read your damn paper online.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Dont make me register! by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There isn't an anonymous micropayment system available. I for the life of me can not think of a good system that will work. If you can then I suggest you get it up and working and make a few billion.
      That being said ads work and don't need to be intrusive. Google is making very good money with it's ad system and people don't mind it.
      I do agree with you about registering. It is a major pain and I avoid it.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Dont make me register! by jpmkm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And how long do you think it will take them to notice the same username/password accessing the site from all over the world in a very short timespan? Porn sites figured this out a long long time ago, and services exist to help combat the problem(such as proxypass).

  3. Required Registration by therage96 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course the problem I have with many online newspaper websites is the fact that they require you to register to view their content. While I understand that is their right, I however can simply go to one of the many "free" news websites to get my daily dose of news.

  4. Author's problem is reading newspapers web site by GGardner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of the author's problems with web design are solved by reading the New York Times via RSS.

  5. Maybe its because... by hostingreviews · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...online newspapers can't hire good writers because they have little or no budget, which drives away customers, which leads to less budget? Just a guess.

  6. Unsolvable by wombatmobile · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't have any answer to this conundrum, I don't know the best way to do this, but I do know that no newspaper I've read online gets things right. I want

    One solution would be for every news site on the internet to be re-written to please the author.

    But why would they go to the expense? Particularly since they already have the author's eyeballs:

    I get a lot of news from web sites: whether newspapers, magazines or TV channels, the main purveyors of information are the leading media brands. I read the New York Times, the Washington Post, Le Monde, along with other media web sites, and subscribe to RSS feeds for dozens of others.

    1. Re:Unsolvable by ElectricRook · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not unsolvable...

      IMHO the solution is make the web "clean and simple", Google and Slashdot have the solution in operation.

      No one ever complains about slashdot's format... Grammer, spelling, & content yes, format no. On-line news sites are too much into glitz, flash, & sidebars. These things reduce the readability (i.e. they give me a head-ache), I go away, and I don't go back. The problem lies in the teaching of web publishing. Each class promotes the newest popping, flashing, glitzy doo-dad to catch the eye. Most web pages look like the bedroom of a spoiled western five year old the day after Christmas. Every noise-making-flashing toy is scattered across the floor, total bed-lam. The reader feels like the parents who look in at the mess, and go to lay down for a bit.

      News sites need to present a clean and simple "warm fuzzy comfortable teddy bear", not a "screaming tickle-me-elmo". But that's the schtick web publishing consultants sell.

      --
      - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
  7. The Guardian by The+Grassy+Knoll · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Huh. Try The Guardian, especially the ball-by-ball and minute-by-minute cricket commentary.

    --
    They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight
    1. Re:The Guardian by dc2447 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Guardian is the online newspaper of the year but doesn't get a mention in that article - speaks volumes I think.

  8. Moving ads, subscriptions and customization by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. It's hard to read and article with a flash animation of a silhouette dancing with an iPod

    2. It's hard to read an article if you have to subscribe to the site or enter in data about yourself (which most likely will be false anyway)

    3. It would be advantageous to have each news site set up in different fashions (one for politics junkies, world news junkies, tech news junkies etc.,) so that the information that is most wanted is easily accessible with one click

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  9. Web is too deep for New papers... by xoip · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here is the thing...Generally, newspapers are written for the grade 8 reading level and offer very little in the way of background, just a quick shot of information then on to the next story. Those that do that online, are not using the technology to build a user base. With the ability to post comments, papers like www.globeandmail.com give a reason for users to register online (to post comments)and create a richer experience where the point of view can be discussed.

  10. Online is much better. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I used to spend hours savoring the print edition of the NYTimes and I hated the online version. Then I got married and my wife talks too much to get much of the paper read. So then, I realized I was spending a lot of money for something I wasn't reading, so I started looking at the Times online for free.

    Now I realize how much time I was wasting on a lot of fluff. Online, I read only the important things, I can catch up a few days at a time, and I can easily save articles, email the, etc. It's actually a much better experience.

  11. Funny Papers by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the biggest problems newspapers have with making money off on-line offereings is this:

    Almost nobody who buys the paper does so to get the news.

    People who buy papers generally are looking for (in rough order of popularity and priority):

    1. Comics
    2. Crossword puzzles & brain teasers
    3. Horoscopes
    4. Sports stats
    5. Movie listings
    6. Everything else

    Items 1-3 are typically not owned by your local paper, but purchased through syndication deals, so the three most popular items in your local paper are missing from the on-line version. Also, IIRC, major-league sports stats require an additinal fee to the leauge in question to re-post them (and users can find them for free from espn or league web sites anyway), so those are also typically omitted.

    On top of that, the vast majority of "news stories" run in your local paper are cut-and-paste reprints of wire service reports. The amount of actual unique news content (not counting the editorials) is really very tiny in most papers. They are sort of like Karma whores who make "Link Slashdotted - Article Text" posts. (And they are every bit as redundant.)

    Newspapers are not news companies, and have not been for a long time. They are ad space companies. They just happen to use news content as one of several ways in which they capture your eyeballs.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    1. Re:Funny Papers by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1. Comics
      2. Crossword puzzles & brain teasers
      3. Horoscopes
      4. Sports stats
      5. Movie listings
      6. Everything else

      Items 1-3 are typically not owned by your local paper, but purchased through syndication deals


      Keep going. 4 is most likely syndicated except for high school sports. 5 is bought from the movie people, I doubt a reporter goes and writes down the movies and dates and types them up for the paper. 6 I guess would include "news" which is bought from Reuters or Associated Press. The other local news is then squished between the other stuff.

      Newspapers are backwards, they should get paid to distribute this information, not pay for it.

      AP and Reuters are disinformation, not news. I got into a discussion with my local newspaper about one of their feeds that was trying to say that the war in Iraq was because of the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks, and they initially agreed with me, and then they said that the phrasing, while deceptive, was not untrue, or something like that.

      Honestly, I don't know why local newspapers have websites. They suck at it and it only decreases their print circulation. I'm not sure who convinced them that was a good idea, but I'm sure they are crying all the way to the bank.

      Slashdot is basically an online newspaper. They get news from other places, and throw it up on the web. Hmm, what is different? Oh, we have comments by people. That is why people come here, its not the slashdotted links that few read, we are slashdot, we are the news and information. Slashdot is an avenue or hang out for us geeks to talk about stuff. Online newspapers are mostly poorly formatted websites that display horrible ads. There is simply little to nothing that people want to get from an online newspaper. Oh, but they can get us more involved. Make us register and give away personal information so they can sell more ads or other stuff to us. Thanks, but no thanks. I register here on slashdot because it gives me something. I get feedback to my discussions, its not just graffiti on the wall.

      Also, local newspapers are not really local newspapers anymore. They are part of conglomerates. There are 4 of them in the US now. I don't know what conglomerating (that is actually a word?!?) gives you, but it surely does not give me better or even newsworthy news.

      Who else besides me is just going to party hard on New Years and not let this stuff bother us for a night?

  12. WSJ gets it about right by mcgroarty · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The Wall Street Journal transitioned online pretty painlessly. The stories are written about as they were before, but there are a wide variety of RSS feeds to choose from with some overlap so you can select by region or interest. They also have daily email summaries in a variety of formats and filtered for different interests, including story summaries for those who want just the quick and dirty. The ads seem to have been selected to be unobtrusive, but relevant -- like the difference between a salesman who's been building my trust over time, versus the carnival barker hanging out at other sites.

    One of the more interesting things is that the NY Times and the WSJ took opposite approaches when it came to paid content. Remaining free at the WSJ - via OpinionJournal.com - is almost all of the editorial content that sparks discussions and draws people to the site. You pay for the hard fact reporting and business analysis that backs up the editorials and makes famously accurate projetions about the future of the market and world events. The NY Times makes all of the daily reporting free, and then makes people pay to see the editorials that might otherwise keep people coming back to the NY Times' site. (For me, the net result has been that I continue paying for the WSJ subscription, but have stopped visiting the NY Times' site altogether.) Hiding the editorials behind Times Select has also lead to far fewer people linking to the NYT as the majority of the free content is already available in varying forms from hundreds of other sources.

  13. Best Designed Newspaper site I've found by foniksonik · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The International Herald Tribune www.iht.com

    You'll want to click on an article to discover the true value though as it doesn't get really good until you start reading content...

    Notice how the entire article is already loaded into the page but it's broken up into 3 column sections that shuffle to a new page of text when you click the 'next page' button (which is triggered by clicking anywhere on the first or third columns), without reloading the html page (and without reloading a bunch of ads and all the 'extras' including the useful tools).

    This design is sooo much easier to read than any other I've found.. the only thing that comes close is a simple long page of text but even that has it's drawbacks as it becomes difficult to read when you are constantly scrolling every few paragraphs. In fact if you want to read it that way they have an 'article tool' to 'change the format' to vertical scrolling as well.

    The only thing I can think of to make it better is if they used keybindings on the arrow keys and pg up pg dn keys to control the buttons (though this is probably an issue of standard behavior across browsers at this time).

    On the commercial side of things, it looks like their text ads at the bottom are also going to be the most relevant ads they can be as they are based on the entire text and not some short summary or 1/5 of the article.

    As for the rest of the site... it's clean. Yes there are ads but they don't let them be too obtrusive and they way it's layed out, if you have ad blocking enabled, you won't even notice them being gone (which not all sites do well.. often removing the ads ruins the overall layout and is just as difficult to read as having them in).

    IHT is an exemplary site. I won't compare their content but as far as design and usability is concerned, they are the #1 Newspaper site on the web today.

    --
    A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  14. Difficult navigation by Generic+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The worst part of reading a pulp newspaper is navigating the various pages to read the articles. Editors love to post "hunks" of articles across various pages, for various reasons. Some, to free up space on the Front Page, but most of the time it seems simply to force you to skim ads as you search for the next 4-inches of article text. And of course the text is smashed up into small columns already so as to fit around the ads in the paper. Personally, I hate trying to read the 'paper'.

    So now we have online news. Well, again many times it is hard to read and navigate because the text is often smashed into thin columns and forced around ads (often obnoxious, animated ads). Most online articles worth reading are broken into multiple "pages" which need to be clicked through, and entirely unneccessary most of the time, except to create more opportunity for ads. Online "papers" seem to be designed by similar people whom design the print versions, with the same headaches for readers.

    A side note, and personal peeve. Online, you see a lot more press releases passed around as actual news items.

    --
    { - Generic Guy - }
  15. Re:I am pissed about this too by nucal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the ads bug you so much, why don't you just read the articles using the "Printer Friendly" mode?

  16. User Registration is a pain by RedneckJack · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find articles of interest on different newspaper sites. One of the biggest pains is having to register before being allowed to look at content. I don't care what their marketing departments wants. I usually put in dummy information just to screw up their database. I know the newpaper executives have the puritan attitude of "you are not going to get what you want unless you work for it!". Usually the executives and the marketing department are in bed with each other and work closely.

    When marketing gets a hold of something, they royally screw things up.

  17. Simple Reasons by sheriff_p · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People read newspapers for:

    * News
    * Opinion
    * Fun

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/ and http://www.cnn.com/ have news completely sewn up in my mind. I wouldn't think of going to a newspaper's website for news - it'll probably be out of date in comparison.

    Fun - there are more fun things to do online, and reading a paper newspaper is much much more enjoyable than reading something on your laptop - less eye-strain, less weight, less worrying about $1000 of equipment having coffee spilled on it.

    So that leaves Opinion. There's a wealth of opinion on the net already, but some of the best opinion pieces come from newspapers. But I rarely go and seek these out - I'm normally pointed to them by other people. Besides, I read opinion pieces as a leisure activity - so see the above point.

    +Pete

    --
    Score:-1, Funny
  18. Here's one..... by Simulant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone click on any of Google News' links the Yahoo/CBS streaming TV article yesterday? (Still on the front page this am...)

    I had to to hit about five different articles before I found a link to the site that they were all reporting on, and I believe the site I found it on was new web media, not a traditional paper's site.

    It blows me away how the printed media can consistently, even stubbornly, leave out hyperlinks (in both their web and print versions) when discussing events on the web itself.

    What's up with that?

  19. Here's an idea: by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    How about they use images? Or even *gasp* links!

    Half the time I read an online article, when they mention a website, they never have a fucken link. Often they even have the website's URL slapped down but with no anchor tags around it.

    No to mention the lack of multimedia such as photos, diagrams, and videos in many articles where you'd expect such a thing. Nothing more annoying than an article about some new product and the lazy fucks can't even be bothered to get a photo in.

    Online newspapers haven't gotten it right because most of them are just bloody lazy.

    [end of rant]