Apple Laptop Reliability Survey

Nikopol writes "The venerable Macintouch site recently released the results and analysis of a survey on Apple laptop reliability." From the article: "Our survey spanned every laptop capable of running Mac OS X, encompassing 41 models sold over seven and a half years. A challenge in ascertaining the reliability of any device is that more time gives them more opportunity to break, so new devices should always look more reliable at first glance. Our survey asked participants when their laptop first needed a repair -- 'first year', 'second or third year', and 'fourth year or later.' These correspond to the duration of Apple's standard one-year warranty, the AppleCare extended warranty program, and any repairs that might happen outside any warranty coverage period. We also asked participants if they purchased AppleCare for their laptop."

Comments

PowerBook 140

[thedbp]

I used a PowerBook 140 for about ... oh, I dunno, 12 years. The screen went out in 2003, but other than that the machine runs. Unfortunately, I have no SCSI computers/devices available to pull off the ONE THING I WANT MOST from that PowerBook.

A small little Japanese puzzle game called Katayuri. Does anyone know where to download a copy of this great little game?

Still though, 12 years without a problem is pretty freaking solid. Kudos!

Re:PowerBook 140

[conJunk]

Absolutely. The older powerbooks were pretty bullet proof. I had a Wallstreet G3 Powerbook from 1998 to 2002, and it had some problems: the hinges were just starting to go, and the power connector needed to be re-soldered to the daughterboard at one point, but other than those, it had zero issues.

Getting the power connector resoldered was a nightmare though. Apple was only willing to replace the entire daughterboard it sat on, and for about $300. An afternoon of telephone calls turned up the good folks at MacForce, a nice little shop under a bridge in portland. They took a day to resolder the connection for me for $40, a far sight less than what apple wanted. When I replaced the Wallstreet with a G3 iBook, I went straight to them without a second thought.

Re:PowerBook 140

[SeaFox]

The problem here is his screen no longer works. He does have an S-Video out he could use. What he wants to do is hook up the Powerbook to another Mac that has a SCSI port and boot the Powerbook into Target Disk Mode so he can just copy whatever he wants off of it like an external hard drive.

I would just use the S-Video out to a separate display and set up a two-computer ethernet network if I didn't have a SCSI machine handy. Better than letting data be entombed on the notebook.

self-selected study

[timster]

As much as people like to quote the macintouch surveys, they are still self-selected unverified Internet studies. As such, they are not useful for any real-world decision making, any more than Slashdot polls.

Macintouch claims that this is not a problem, but they have no way to support that claim.

How about a survey on the 'logic boards'?

[fak3r]

I have a dual-USB 800Mhz iBook that is on it's THIRD logic board. It's now out of coverage, so if the board dies again I'm looking at a 500$ repair, basically meaning I have an overpriced disposable computer. Guess I'll buck up for a Powerbook, or just go IBM/Leano Thinkpad, since I'm running Linux I could go either way, next time. Oh, but OT, the battery has been fine, after 3 years it only lasts ~1 hour or so for me.

Re:How about a survey on the 'logic boards'?

[Mikey-San]

I'm posting this because the other guy who posted with this same info was an asshole about it, and will get modded down (rightfully so).

It's a known issue, and Apple will cover it. Here you go:

http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/

Re:How about a survey on the 'logic boards'?

[Logic Bomb]

Have you actually talked to Apple phone support about your iBook, or gone to an Apple store? There's a semi-secret about repair options for out-of-warranty portables. The short version is that, except in cases of accidental damage like a liquid spill or drop, regardless of what the problem is it doesn't cost more than about $350 to get your portable repaired.

Here's how it works: there are two ways to repair an Apple portable. It can be done on-site at an authorized service provider, or it can be shipped to a repair depot. For on-site repairs, you get charged parts + labor. This is irrelevant if you're in warranty or AppleCare. If you're out of warranty, things get extremely expensive. Like all computer manufacturers Apple charges high prices for parts, and service providers add a big mark-up.

On the other hand, for mail-in repairs Apple charges a flat fee (again, assuming accidental damage is not the cause). That's right -- a flat fee, no matter which parts need replacing. This ranges from about $275 to $350, depending on which computer model you have. So there is absolutely no way you lost $1600. For =$350 you can get the laptop repaired (iBooks are at the cheap end of the range), and you can buy a better iPod for $300.

The reason you might not have heard about this before is when you take an out-of-warranty portable to an authorized service provider, they have an enormous incentive not to tell you about it. The service provider gets a tiny reimbursement from Apple for facilitating a mail-in repair on your behalf. It's not worth their time, because they have to provide a basic diagnosis and do basic troubleshooting before sending it in (otherwise they lose the reimbursement). If they do the repair in-house they actually can make some money.

So call Apple! Since you don't have AppleCare, they will probably charge you $50 to open a support case. However, I believe that if the support case ends with a paid repair the $50 is refunded.

What is this survey useful for?

[rsborg]

From a first glance, it seemed that this survey was pretty useless considering there is no similar survey for other laptop vendors (ie, Dell, HP, etc). However, if you're going to go OSX, then you gotta get an Apple product, and if you're doing so on the cheap, then it's good to know what to avoid... and this survey gives that information, in a general sense.

I found these sites to be useful in determining where to get the latest deals on used macs:

• Low End Macs
• Apple Refurbished

RSS + Coral Cache

[Zork the Almighty]

I was thinking, could someone make a program which takes URLs out of slashdot's RSS feed and automatically hits the Coral cache to ensure that a cached copy is available ? If a subscriber did it, all the better.

Lower Memory Slot Failure...

[bitkari]

I wonder if they surveyed any of the people affected by this rather substaintial, but as yet unresolved issue on many powerbooks?

Re:Maybe since the link is TOTALLY /.'d

[nuggetman]

I bought a PowerBook 12" G4 in mid 2004. No AppleCare.
Hard drive died on me this past October, about 4 months out of warranty.
Instead of paying Apple's $375 repair, I spent $80 on a 60gb Seagate HD and disassambled and replaced it myself, and everything works fine.

After my experiences regarding the PB, my iPod, and my ex gf's iBook, I would never pay for AppleCare - the free service isn't even worth the price so I sure as hell wouldn't pay for it

Less than $500 elsewhere

[pjcreath]

Someone on the Apple discussion boards pointed me to DT&T Computer Services. They charge $225 to replace the logic board (with a refurb). I haven't used them, but they're quite helpful on the phone. They also don't charge for the diagnosis. You pay shipping (there and back), diagnosis is free, and then you decide whether to pay for repairs. Also, other common problems (e.g. broken video cables) are cheaper still.

Re:Maybe since the link is TOTALLY /.'d

[macrom]

I picked up my custom 15" PowerBook on November 25th from FedEx. By the next weekend, my battery wouldn't hold a charge AT ALL, and you could watch the percentage meter in the menu bar tick down like a bomb about to go off. Called Apple, they sent me into a store here in Dallas. No batteries there, so they overnighted one to the store. Problem solved...

...until the left Shift key decided to not work. Have fun writing C++ code with no shift key. Took it to the Apple Store in Plano, had them adjust the key a bit, seemed to be alright. After a day of use, it totally stopped working. Called Apple, bitched up a storm. They refuse to do anything because the laptop wasn't DOA. By this time, I'm getting failure of keys on the left side of the keyboard and the right Shift key no longer works. Requests to ship a keyboard to a store so they can replace it were denied. My only recourse is to send in the laptop.

So, here I am, a week before Macworld, trying to get a product ready and the lone machine that I have is a pain to work with. I ended up purchasing an iCurve (wonderful stand), an Apple Keyboard and a Mighty Mouse (cool once you get used to it) just to get my work done. We ordered an iMac for testing, but by the time it arrived I wasn't willing to compromise my deadline by setting up all my dev tools on it. Not to mention that I ordered a PowerBook because I have the need to be mobile.

I'm sure that my story is unique. The last PB I owned was a G3 Pismo B, and that think kicked some ass. But it's really disheartening when you tell a company that you're trying to prepare for their largest convention of the year, and they just fall back on their "standard policy" song and dance and refuse to try and help you. Oh yeah, I was offered repeatedly to purchase Apple Pro Care for $99, something I didn't feel like I should have to pay for when I had a virtually non-functional laptop less than 3 weeks after it arrived.

Any other horror stories like this?

Dell vs Apple

[soupdevil]

Personal experience: I have a 2003 Dell Inspiron laptop and a 2004 12" Powerbook. I used to have a 2002 12" iBook. The Dell had a bad wi-fi card (which was an Intel part) which was replaced free of charge, and that's been my only problem. It's ugly and plastic, but everything works. The PB has a bad modem which freezes the OS when I try to use it, the and the hard drive died after 6 months. I did the HD replacement myself. I didn't try using the modem until after the warranty had expired, and it's kinda hard to replace the modem since it's on the motherboard. The iBook had a bad touch pad, a non functioning latch, and a powersupply failure. I ended up pitching it into a dumpster. I'm going to try a Sony or HP for my next laptop.

Re:My experience:

[waffffffle]

Pismo (G3 Firewire) - built like TANKS. TANKS I SAY. Slap a Lombard power brick on them to replace the POS yo-yo (I went through four yoyos in four years) and you're ready for the bomb to drop- the brick is the only part I've ever needed to replace.

Lombard power bricks were recalled because there was a fire risk. Stick with the yoyo or buy a third party adapter.

I've had very good luck with my Pismo, with some exceptions. I had a strange logic board problem in April 2001 that caused the weirdest problems and was difficult for Apple to diagnose (minimizing any window in OS X would crash all apps, playing any mp3 in OS 9 would crash the player app) and they kept sending back my PowerBook still broken, with the hard drive downgraded to OS 9.0 (current at the time was 10.0 and 9.1). Both my DVD drive and battery died just over the 1 year mark, out of warrantee, but I was able to scrounge up replacements from a dead Lombard where I worked. Other than that the machine has been a trooper. I used it for over three years as my primary machine at school and then as a secondary "loft" computer for another year. It is currently running as my home server.

Numbers don't lie.

[Ythan]

I was trying to find some statistics to back up a smart-ass comment about Apple's 43% repair rate and their reputation as a "premium" computer manufacturer. It didn't work out so well.

Instead of getting modded as flamebait I'll just link to PCWorld's 2006 Notebook Reliability and Service Survey where Apple actually remains at the top of the charts.

Hey if I just spent $5,000 on a new computer I'd have a hard time admitting it's a lemon too. ;)

Apple notebooks have dog resistant keys

[tjstork]

My wife has had a PowerBook G4 now for about a year. I bought it for her in January. Since that time, my three dogs have stomped on it repeatedly as my wife has a habit of leaving the notebook opened up on the floor. The case is a bit dented and doesn't fold properly, and two or three of the keys are missing, and we've had to change the power cord twice, but... given that we are talking about 3 dogs weighing around 70lbs apiece, I'd say its doing pretty good.

Conversely, my wife's friend brought a toshiba satellite notebook to the house, and also made the mistake of leaving it opened on the floor. It took all of about 30 seconds for the dogs to knock all of the keys off of its wimpy keyboard. Consequently, we had to buy her a new one.

Thus, in my mind, Apple's dog resistant keyboard lasts one year, whereas, a PC notebook lasts 30 seconds. Now I'm not saying Steve Jobs has a kennel onsite at Apple to test things like this out, but I wouldn't put it past him either.

Jives with our experience

[zygote]

We had at least 20+ iBooks come through our paper in the last 3 or so years and among those there were only two or three that failed for any "mechanical" reason. (Had several fail due to impact damage.) Those that died were related to the logic board recall and Apple fixed them extraordinarily fast.

Keep in mind that these were machines used by photojouranlists and subject to a lot of hard use -- wildfires, Iraq, the Olympics, daily beatings. (One of our guys was blown out of a Humvee by an IED and while he wound up with a mild concussion and broken hand, the iBook was undamaged. )

We've since rotated them out for 15-inch Powerbooks to provide enough CPU/GPU umpf vs large digital files. I only hope these PBs do as well as the the iBooks.

Re:Maybe since the link is TOTALLY /.'d

[Blakey Rat]

On the other hand, I bought one of those terrible G3 800 mhz iBooks with the faulty motherboards. After having the motherboard repaired twice, I talked the "Genius" at the Apple Store into declaring it a lemon. Bam, free G4 iBook with all the trimmings came to my door the next week, and because I bought the AppleCare warranty.

(Of course, part of it was the *great* service at the Apple Store and the fact that the manager there had the power to give me a free replacement without running it through corporate jerkwads. The actual AppleCare warranty stated that it was only declared a lemon after it fails 4 times. I got a replacement after 2.)

FYI, if you had AppleCare, the HD replacement would have been free. (Because your computer would still have been under warranty.) That's kind of the *point* of the AppleCare program... so judging the extended warranty based on their refusal to service an out-of-warranty machine is a little kooky.

All I know is that after talking with the super-nice guys at the Apple Store, and getting a free laptop, I've happy with my purchase even if it was a lemon at first.