JSF vs ASP.net

DuncanE asks: "We are looking at migrating an old legacy database application to a newer web based framework for the front end. For me the two obvious choices are ASP.net vs Java Server Faces. CodeGuru has side by side look at both, but does anyone have any real world comparisons? ASP.net appears to be MS only, which is a concern, depending on how mature mod_mono has become." Which framework would you prefer to use? Under what situations and conditions would you recommend the use of the other?

Comments

DOS isn't done til Lotus won't run

[B5Fan]

As soon as Microsoft decide that Mono is good enough to make enough people think of moving away from Windows, I think they'll try to change .Net to prevent it.
AFAIK The only issue with Mono currently is that MS-specific security doesn't work under Mono, because it relies on Windows.
I suggest that if you want to be able to run on something other than Windows, be careful about choosing .Net. It may still turn out to be a good choice, given that there are probably more .Net developers available, provided that you've taken into account aspects like security.

BTW The only programming I do is .Net (in New Zealand), and this is being written at home with Firefox on Linux.

I haven't worked with both, but....

[free space]

I think Java would be a more 'safe' choice.
Java Server apps can run on multiple operating systems, multiple servers, and in the extreme case of Sun not supporting it anymore ( or not adding a feature you want) you've got tons of big companies pushing it, like IBM and others, in addition to open source implementations like GNU classpath. Not to mention that you can implement 100% of your solution without paying anything.

ASP.net, on the other hand, is a Microsoft solution, and you depend on the whims of MS for everything. It runs on little more than Windows/IIS, and the only serious IDE for it would be Visual Studio.net, and good luck trying to run it under mono if you favorite class or function is incomplete or has a bug in its mono implementation ( or the MS implementation for that matter).

I think that the Java and .net solutions are somewhat similar in the quality of their solutions, and that any marginal difference in quality, if they exist, would have no impact compared to the freedom of choice Java provides.

Re:I haven't worked with both, but....

[free space]

Well, I wasn't saying Java web apps are better than asp.net, merely saying there is more choice available (and I'm a .net developer,but I develop desktop apps).

If I want a .net IDE I have to buy VS.net or Delphi, or download the open source sharpDevelop. If I want to develop for Java, I have a much broader choice: netbeans, eclipse, IDEA, JBuilder and complete product families from IBM,Oracle or BEA.

Same for running the apps: I can either choose from IIS or Apache/mod_mono for .net, but Java has a dozen or so platforms to run on, which vary in power and cost.

As for my comment on "good luck if there's a missing function in the mono implementation" , it wasn't anti MS zealotry but a practical remark: whenever I check the mono status I get a chart which says "class so and so is implemented and function so isn't". It really worries a developer when he sees that the project is incomplete to the level of functions in the libraries he'll be developing with[1]. My point has nothing to do with Microsoft, but a simple remark that mono isn't mature enough yet.

What The Fuck?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

The provided link: If you develop web applications you have probably heard the names JavaServer Faces...

My web apps must be crap, because I've never heard of "JavaServer Faces".

What are you and your programmers familiar with?

[BadAnalogyGuy]

These kinds of decisions ought to be based on what you and your colleagues are most comfortable with. Java? C#? Perl/Python? You certainly wouldn't try to run a marathon in brand new shoes!

Either

[Artega VH]

Both are a good choice if you want to properly engineer a new web-based tool. ASP.NET is probably quicker but if you want to do anything really serious you'll probably want to look at purchasing Visual Studio 2005 rather than just using the Visual Web Developer Express. Also the tool support for JSF isn't nearly as mature so it will probably take longer to implement in JSF than in ASP.NET.

Having said that JSF is still a good choice - particularly if licensing costs and portability are an issue. Apache MyFaces is an excellent framework whose only downside is the poor documentation. JSF can be slower to get started with but I found that it enforces best practices more strictly and once you get the hang of all the XML wiring it wasn't that bad. Another benefit of JSF is that you'll have trouble breaking the MVC pattern but you can pretty easily embed alot of code in ASP.NET unless you properly use code-behind and deliberately seperate out the DAL which isn't the default for the point and click wizards (the DAL separation).

In the end it comes down to a few things. If you have existing C#/VB skills and don't mind being stuck with IIS then go for .NET. If portability is a big issue and you'd really like to run this application on a small server running Jetty(for instance) then go for JSF.

Re:neither?

[Johnno74]

Dude, ASP.Net is a massive leap foward from classic ASP. The difference is night and day. Benchmarks are pointless, but in my experience its 5-10x faster than ASP.

Its also much, much more productive to develop, and support. Its a nice stable, extendible extendible object-orientated framework that can give you most of a website with very little code (asp.net 2.0), or it stays out of your way if you'd rather do it yourself.

IIS has also moved on a LOT since NT4 as well. Its much, much more stable and secure.
With ASP and NT4 remember you are talking about technologies that are about 10 years old now.

I'd recommend Java for several reasons.

[TechieHermit]

In terms of being able to create and serve a web page, either one would probably WORK, but I think Java is a much better platform. Let me share with you my reasons why, keeping in mind that I'm a professional developer with eight years of production experience. Also, I've developed on Apache (straight HTML and some CGI), JSP (on Red Hat servers with Apache Jakarta), ASP3 (IIS with COM+ middleware and Oracle backend), ASP.Net with web services AND some COM+ middleware and oracle backend, and now, Oracle 10G with Java everything (basically).

First of all, every platform in use supports Java, and you can download almost anything you might want to use for free. This is going to save you a bundle. YES, I know that technically Mono is sort of .Net-ish, and it's free, but I don't think Mono matches the sheer breadth of Java offerings you can acquire at zero to no cost. Java buys you almost complete freedom from vendor lock-in, if you play your cards right. .Net, in comparison, is vendor lock-in INCARNATE.

Second, Java has an amazingly rich class library. If you can think of something you might want to do with a computer, there's a java library in there somewhere which will let you do it -- usually relatively easily, too. Although C# is approaching this level of functionality, I don't think it's exactly equal with Java yet. Close, maybe, but I think Java still has a little edge. Which makes sense, when you think about it -- Java's been around for several years longer.

Third, most major vendors are now completely behind Java. Sun, IBM, Novell, and Oracle, for instance, are all putting their collective might behind the platform. That's pretty significant. It means that new innovations from these companies are going to be available in Java FIRST. Also, when you're ready to ramp up to big iron, you're more likely to be able to do so with Java, because all the big players there are Java shops.

Fourth, you can download Oracle Express for free, and use it with Oracle's Java developer's tools to build a rather interesting type of system. Oracle's considering an interesting approach here; give away the low-end database so that as companies grow they think about going with Oracle first. That's pretty good business; be generous first, so you'll be thought of when it's time to purchase something big. And this can work for you.

Fifth, the same skill set your developers use to create Java-based apps on your web server can be used to program just about anything from a Microwave to a PDA to cars and trucks (believe it or not, yes Java's finding its way into some vehicle systems). Java's everywhere these days; the language is the same, only the API changes. That makes your Java skillset very portable.

Finally, I think JDBC is a little nicer than Microsoft's database approach. I've programmed both ways, and I like the Java approach better. It's easier, for one thing; I write less code working with Java (YES, I know, it's astounding, but nontheless true).

I could go on, but you see where I'm going. Java's the nicer of the two platforms, and you can't really go wrong choosing it.

Re:neither?

[LarsWestergren]

Both have a reputation for being slow, insecure,

Maybe on Slashdot... Java has an excellent track record for security. Compare with the PHP worm that swept the net, or PHP based framworks like NukePHP that are hacked so regularly that sites are unusable. .Net I haven't kept up with, so I don't know how they do security in real life.

Server side java is REALLY fast. On artifical benchmarks, java can be as fast as C++, and these people wrote a high performance Linux cluster monitoring tool in Java.

If you need more proof, Java is now the preferred language for Boeing when doing mission critical and real time software. NASA used it during the Mars mission...

and proprietary.

You can join the Java Community Process for free as an individual and vote for how future versions of Java will look like, Sun has handed over control over just about everything but the Java trademark to this JCP. There are also plenty of open source implementations of compilers and JVMs. Sun keeps donating stuff to the open source community. DTrace, Solaris, 1600 patents, cryptography tech....