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Norway to Build Doomsday Seed Bank
Kagu writes "According to the BBC, Norway is planning to build a Seed Bank in the Artic Permafrost to protect all known variations of seeds in case of worldwide disaster." From the article: "Mr Hawtin said there were currently about 1,400 seed banks around the world, but a large number of these were located in countries that were either politically unstable or that faced threats from the natural environment."
Anyways, the world is dying because the resources were squandered by humans. As a last resort, we package our genetic material into the nose cone of a rocket and fire it blindly into space (colder than the artic tundra).
Would it be such a bad idea to launch seeds into outer space to orbit the world just in case? I mean, they have to be worth something to us, right?
From the article:I hope there's a foot of lead included in that shielding somewhere. To me that would seem the most vital shielding they could provide.
My work here is dung.
So where can i deposit my seed?
http://www.cushingproductions.com
...Oh wait, that kind of seed. I better lay low for a while...
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
Why would a politically unstable country have a seed bank? I can't imagine caring much about how oak trees fare if my government was on the brink of collapse...
//I'm also kind of curious what countries they consider to be "politically unstable."
... it was alredy on digg.com
That's old news.
KFG
... they have some good pot seeds frozen. Why should post-apocalyptic pizza stores go bankrupt?
Trolling is a art,
A lot of seeds die if they are ever frozen, and no seed has an infinite shelf life. After a geologicially short time all the DNA of the seeds will break down. So unfortunatly this isn't going to do any good if we humans kill our planet.
As far as I know, the arctic permafrost is already melting - which implies that the seeds will not remain frozen for very long.
And I'd suppose there would be flooding issues involved where there is a lot of melting water. So, they will probably succeed in creating an underwater chamber of moldy grains then?
More elaborate article on this can be found at NewScientist.com. Some sketches (2) over the vault available on the online Norwegian newspaper TV2 Nettavisen.
Also, I'm a bit disappointed that BBC missed out on the whole "security-details provided by roaming polar bears"-thing.
-= Ho Eyo He Hum =-
1) Top Soil Storage -- Enough to dilute the nuclear fallout and to bury the bodies of the passed as well as provide sufficient nutrients for plant growth.
2) Water Supply -- Unless whatever is causing the damage will filter water.
3) Source of Light -- That volcanic ash could certainly block out needed sunlight.
4) Parking Garage -- Fer yer John Deer and other machinery (unless the human toll was minimal - labour = food)
5) Dummies Guide to Farming -- Tony Blair, George W, and all our favourite characters will get a spot in a safe location. To that I say, save the farmers.
6) Apiary -- Most plants require Pollination.
The above is by no means a complete list.
Thank goodness we have the seeds. Now I don't mean to be extremely critical since in many cases it could be sufficient. However it would be prudent to consider other requirements for growth other then just the seeds.
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
Permafrost =/= ice caps/glacier.[br][br] Permafrost is solid soil that stays frozen because of the climate. Even if the polar ice caps did melt, most permafrost exists at high altitude, and will stay frozen and unaffected if the polar ice caps melt.
the thing
sure putting all that genetic material in the frozen wastelands sounds like a good idea, but then you get mutant sled dogs wandering away from the destroyed frozen norwegian science outposts, and pretty soon kurt russell has to fire up the flamethrower and do some genetic mutant ass kicking
sorry, this seed bank idea is bad news
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Named after Nikolai I Vavilov, a Russian biologist, botanist and geneticist, the Institute's seed collections were largely built by Vavilov who scoured five continents in the 1920s and 1930s for wild and cultivated corn, potato tubers, grains, beans, fodder, fruits and vegetable seeds.
Hitler's army blockaded Leningrad (now St Petersburg). Under German fire, scientists gathered unripened potato tubers from the Institute's experimental fields outside Leningrad. They burned everything they could find to keep the collection from freezing in the building.
While guarding the collection, some scientists starved to death rather than eat the packets of rice, corn and other seeds in their desks.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_device
[Obligatory Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb quote]
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I wonder if they really thought this thing through or just got carried away in their zeal. The permafrost is melting worldwide. In 50 years there will not be much left in the arctic.
so....
how'd you know it was the Gilmore Girls, huh?
as for me... uhm... my uhm... wife wrote that comment
I prefer to think of it as security of the species. Come on, hear me out...
Picture this.... several hundred thousand years from now...
A series of archaeologists from the now dominant evolved-from-Dolphins species that runs the planet finds a mysterious encased tomb. Cracking their way through the concrete covering, they find a collection of primitive seeds. Despite the training provided by their utopian society, enroute to the museum a couple of seeds manage to blow away and germinate in the soil nearby. Slowly but surely, plants from a long-forgotten era slowly grow and displace the native flora. Despite their best efforts, the native flora is rapidly killed off, being entirely unsuited to compete against these primitive plants. The rapid change in the flora leads to a collapse of the entire food chain, and subsequent extinction of the dolphin race.
And then us monkeys get another crack at it! Take that Dolphin overlords!
I dunno, this seems a bit silly all round. I mean if there is a catastrophe sufficient to wipe out all seed and food crops in the world, or at least within easy reach, it's not very likely that there will be a whole lot of anything or anybody else to replant and eat said food crops. On top of that, its fairly safe to assume the disaster would have pretty much erased whole ecosystems; are the food crops sufficient to maintain a viable ecosystem by themselves? Kind of a waste of money, really.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Here in Canada pot is pretty nearly legal. Small amounts get you a wee fine, no jail time or anything silly like in "free" countries. :)
Trolling is a art,
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg189253 43.700
I think it's really more about preserving genetic diversity rather than being a hedge against world-wide disaster.
No, but I did think of some sort of seed that, upon germination, would cause doomsday to occur.
Sounds like something out of one of my weirder dreams...
"Quoting yourself is stupid." -Me
Marshall T. Savage, a while ago, proposed a rather interesting idea for preserving life that I think would work as a great parallel project to this:
In this boldly optimistic manifesto, Savage proclaims a master plan for the human race: to spread life throughout the galaxy. To many, space exploration seems irrelevant to Earth's real problems; but humanity may in fact have no other way to secure its long-term survival. To remain confined to Earth, Savage claims, is to court extinction, possibly within a few decades. Savage (an engineer who has established the Millennial Foundation to promote space exploration) outlines his program for transferring a significant portion of humanity off-planet. The crucial first step is to colonize the ocean surface with floating cities, quadrupling the living space available to the growing population of Earth. This allows us to reverse the degradation of the environment by shifting to the thermal energy of the deep ocean as our primary power source. At the same time, spirulina algae (already on sale in health food stores) becomes a major new food crop. The hardware for these oceanic colonies is already within practical reach: Savage provides a detailed inventory of how his floating cities would work and support themselves, with copious citations of the scientific literature. Once this move is well underway, it frees up energy and resources for the next steps. Improved space vehicles make possible orbiting space colonies, then settlements on the moon. A larger step is terraforming Mars--creating an atmosphere and a water supply for our lifeless neighbor to form a human habitat. On an even longer time scale, the race can expand into the rest of the solar system: asteroids and the moons of other planets. Ultimately, artificial habitats may completely surround the sun. With the resources of an entire solar system at our command, according to Savage, humanity can at last send out emissaries to other stars. The stuff of science fiction? Of course--but rigorously built from existing science, carefully documented, and convincingly argued. Highly recommended.
Fool. of course it's higher! North is up.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I think you're right. Arguably it's a good idea, whether or not the organisms themselves are ever grown, because the DNA may have interesting genes in it that future biotechnologists might want to study and use, when we get to the point where we're able to not only "read" a genome easily but with full comprehension.
It's for this reason that the actual viability of the seeds isn't maybe that much of an issue. So long as the DNA remains intact and can be sequenced, it will be useful.
Although...I wonder if they might not be better off spending the money on sequencing the genomes now. That data can then be stored in many different places, and probably far more compactly and easily than the seeds. Furthermore, I think the mol bio field generally agrees that in the not too distant future it should be relatively straightforward to understand gene function from sequence, and that means only the sequence is really needed anyway. We won't need the actual DNA itself, because we can always reconstruct it, or the part of it we need.
Basically I'm saying maybe preserve all these plant species virtually, in cyberspace, instead of actually, in the frozen tundra. Cheaper. As well as more cyberpunk.
A simple challenge to you: if you're simply laughing at the prior sentence, then consider that you will die should it happen. If you're not laughing and you're seriously considering the effects, you too would consider a little biodiversity...
If humanity manages to wipe itself out, are you sure we are worth trying to bring back?
*elevator music plays*
That should be ragnarok, nothing else.
I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...
The past few years we've seen universities trying very hard to find old races/ strains of for example apple trees because the present ones seem to be more suspect to pests than it used to be.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
things change... that's the way of life! the only ecosystem that is at equlibrium is a climax. every other system is NOT at equilibrium and therefore living... generating new species and dying out on some other parts.
... they do not exist at their own. everything is linked. you cannot restore a whole such system by simply bringing back the plants. for a start: how would they fix nitrogen from atmosphere? this is done by bacteria in most cases that grow in plants.
... want yet another illustrating example: imagine this: lets assume, we have put a dinosaur, a raptor, in cryo some milion years ago and now we decide to restore its population. we thaw it up again, make it mate with another dino of other sex and let them have children. now try to find a place in our modern world, where they would be able to reestablish a population... maybe a city like new york or tokyo? or london or paris or kolkata? 18milion humans and 150 raptor dinosaurs in same habitat... would this be possible? probably not. the time has passed and things changed. the raptor has no chance to exist in our world. this will be probably the most frequent fate of such imaginary experiments, because of the fact that life cannot be preserved but only prolonged and even that has its limits... ;-) ... think about that!
if you save seeds, you did do a snapshot of available species at a certain time under certain conditions. sure plants can grow under a lot of conditions but don't rest on the fact that now we will have a global seed-bank in a stable cold place and now we can destruct the whole ecosystems of this planet just becasue we have the seeds to re-establish it back. this is NOT the case. plants are highly dependend on animals, bacteria, virii,
better let's keep the ecosystems we have now more or less stable and try not to destroy them completely than relating on seed-banks for conservation.
don't get me wrong: seed-banks are very valuable tools for research and agriculture, but not for longterm conservation!
Building a doomsday seed seems a bit risky.
What happens if it gets lost? or a bird eats it then shits it onto an innoscent park some where.
1 year and a little water...kabooom!
just to risky...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Having not taken Murphy's Law seriously enough, the brave Norwegian seed guardians first notice Doom as a distant whistling noise.
Say, Gunter, vot is zat zound? Asks Olaf.
Vhy, I dunno! Says Gunter. It sounds almost like a vhistle!
They ponder the problem for a few seconds, and look out the window of the seed bank guard tower where they were having lunch a minute earlier. Gunter speaks first.
Olaf, there is a very strange circular shadow on the ground. It covers ze whole base!
Yes, I see, Gunter, what can zis mean?
Both men look up. The meteor Doom hangs over their heads for an instant, just like the big evil sphere in The Fifth Element, improbably rotating with a very slight cant, and then descends. Unfortunately there is no Wild Hottie available to save them... All the models are in New York for "Fashion Week". The meteor falls directly on them, squashing them all as flat as a day-old tostada.
The resulting release of energy wipes out all the plants on Earth, and the survivors think, "yeah, we should have seen it coming... Doesn't it always happen that way?"
Svalbard, of which Spitsbergen is an island, is a complicated case politically -- sort of like the Antarctic where signatories to the treaty of Svalbard can have a research or economic presence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard.
Norway's sovereignty is not in question, but it is under constraint. The Russians mine coal there (among other things). Norway has huge oil reserves in the North Sea and wants to move drilling into the Arctic ocean. The Norwegians have a strong interest in developing Svalbard and have a heavy presence in Longyearbyen. There is a developed tourist trade for people like me and my crazy wife who rode snowmobiles six hours to Berentsberg (The Russian Settlement) in a whiteout last Easter. But how many idiots like us can they count on?
Now, put in this context, the seed project makes a lot more sense. It is a good thing to do, of course, but at root there is the matter of "presence" not to mention all that oil and gas up there. And let's not forget those pesky Russians who also have interests.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
The guy spent TWO FREAKING DECADES collecting that stuff. Folks guarding it realized it would only last them a few days, so chose not to destroy a valuable scientific artifact. This is HEROISM folks, in its purest form. Not "firefighter" flavor cultivated here in the US.
Mod the parent Insightful.
Where can I get some? Mwahahaha.
Have you heard about the Microsoft Seed Bank?
I certainly don't agree with your sentiments - Norway feels very much in control of Svalbard with the treaty in hand. The only other issue is of course the conflict with Russia and Iceland over fishing in the waters surrounding Svalbard. Now, establishing the seed bank on Svalbard would not change anything in that regard! Every major and minor nation party to the treaty including Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, the United Kingdom (including overseas dominions) and the United States, Russia and Germany recognize Norwegian sovereignty over these islands. It's the sea surrounding it and the territorial limits that we expanded that they don't fully agree with!