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Two Groups File Domestic Spying Lawsuits
An anonymous reader writes "The Center for Constitutional Rights and the ACLU both recently filed lawsuits, in New York and Detroit respectively, claiming that President Bush's electronic eavsdropping program is illegal and exceeds his constitutional powers. From the article: 'The Detroit [ACLU] lawsuit, which names the National Security Agency and its director, said the program has impaired plaintiffs' ability to gather information from sources abroad as they try to locate witnesses, represent clients, do research or engage in advocacy.'
Do I have some misconception about your law, or is "filing a lawsuit" in this case referring to civil law (as opposed to criminal law)?
If so, why is this? As far as I can tell spying is considered a criminal offense. In this case, the juridical system should automatically start to investigate Georg W. Bush for charges of "illegal espionage against the american people". in other words: high treason.
"The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
In other matters, such as the Second Amendment, they argue against civil liberties in opposition to the clear wording and intent ("..the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."), by arguing it somehow doesn't recognize an individual right.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Bush had the power to do spy on people legally, but for whatever reason, he did it illegally.
How are you supposed to trust ANYTHING the Bush Administration does after they admit to starting a war based on false pretenses? They defended the invasion of Iraq SO HARD that they would demonize their opponents and always would deny any wrongdoing was done, until it came out that it was all a lie. It is shameful.
It is unfortunate to say, but this Bush Administration is one of the most corrupt in history. Look at the Abramoff lobbying scandals, FEMA's failure with Katrina, the huge deficit and debt, the no-bid contracts for rebuilding Iraq, the $9 Billion that just went missing that was supposed to be spent on rebuilding Iraq, the lies about the reasons to invade Iraq, the torture of innocent prisoners, and the military contracts for inferior armor.
If President Clinton can be impeached for an affair, what makes Bush immune from impeachment for lying and spying?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Where were these people when Bill Clinton's administration was running a far more invasive wiretapping program, one that unapologetically snooped on Americans with no terrorist connections?
Back then, the New York Times ran editorials *supporting* the program and we didn't hear a peep from the ACLU. Was this because catching drug dealers and minor-league domestic terrorists back then was more important than preventing another 9/11-type atrocity is now?
No. We know better than that. The real reason is that the ACLU and their allies consider George Bush in the White House to be a bigger threat than al-Qaeda. The prospect of another 3,000 American lives lost is trivial to these people in comparison the the vast importance of their anti-Republican kulturkampf.
You hit EVERY DNC talking point.
Now go back and actually do some critical thinking.
Amongst, the people that Abramoff paid off includes Democratic congresscritters as well as Republicans. (Including Dem leadership.)
President Clinton claimed the right to perform warrantless phsical searches for "national security" reasons that included drug raids.
As for Katrina let's all go take a dip in the Mayor Ray Nagin memorial motor pool or sit down in one of those empty trains that left NOLA just before the hurricane hit. Maybe we could sit around with the Red Cross relief supplies that the mayor and the governor wouldn't let reach the dome were the non-existent child-raping and murdering was going on. Or you could just go down there and find the missing 9,000 dead people that showed how Bush-Co hated black people.
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How are you supposed to trust ANYTHING the Bush Administration does after they admit to starting a war based on false pretenses? They defended the invasion of Iraq SO HARD that they would demonize their opponents and always would deny any wrongdoing was done, until it came out that it was all a lie. It is shameful.
False pretenses? Sadam was a menace to the region and US interests. He murdered 100's of thousands of people. He invaded his neighbors and did unspeakable atrocities on them, including the use of chemical weapons. He flaunted dozens of UN resolutions, broke his Gulf War I surrender agreement, and deeply corrupted the UN oil for food program. No. I'd say he got his just deserts. Hang'em high, I say.
It is unfortunate to say, but this Bush Administration is one of the most corrupt in history. Look at the Abramoff lobbying scandals, FEMA's failure with Katrina,..
Lobbying corruption reflects on the congressional leadership, not President Bush. FEMA's failure? It is pretty well recognised that New Orleans was a disfunctional city. No agency could make that look good. You got him on the debt. Torture of innocent prisoners? The guilty soldiers were convicted, discharged, and jailed. Justice was done.
an ill wind that blows no good
"Regarding gun ownership, isn't that down to a particular interpretation of the constitution (and its ammendments). Do you think the ACLU should be defending the rights of white supremacists (or radical muslims, for that matter) to own machine guns, nuclear weapons etc?"
Everything comes down to an "interpretation" of the Constitution, so your argument is kind of silly. It's funny, though, how their interpretations seem to line up _exactly_ with the Democratic party's interpretations. If they're defending citizens' liberties, why aren't they doing so for the right to own whatever property they want?
And, yes, I support white supremacists being able to buy machine guns, assuming they haven't been convicted of a crime before.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Please show me where the consitution grants you the right to perform your religious rituals during governmental business.
Please show me where the constitution grants you the right to refuse to pay taxes and ignore the rightful orders of law enforcement?
If you had a grasp of reality, you'd realize your statements make no sense. Please, think about what you believe, challenge yourself over WHY you believe that. The lack of ciritcal thinking is going to destroy us all.
Blar.
I loved the House Unamerican Activities because they identified Communists organizations like the ACLU and got rid of them. The ACLU needs to be tried under the RICO law. If America can't fight the muslem scum on our shores then perhaps we need to nuke the middle east but send all the anit-Amierican maggots to the middle east before the bombs fall.
Poor Hillary and Bill are scrambling trying to keep this story from going wide open. Bill's administration was doing the same thing domestically. Too bad he didn't use it to CATCH TERRORISTS instead of using it to find out whose husband was out of town. Hillary's Presidential run looks to be an albatross around the neck of Bill's legacy.
It is ironic that the New York Times scooped Risen's story about the wiretaps which was the main selling point for his book. Now his book is in the tank. Maybe the NYT tapped his phone to get the story since he wouldn't release the book to them.
Meanwhile, someone bought a whole assload of trackless cell phones. Great. Thanks guys.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Unless of course, it's the ability to carry out prayer or other religioius expression during meetings or on government property. Then the ACLU is indeed forcing government (courts) to take your rights away.
No one ever had the "right" to pray on government property, it was just done. Banning it was the right thing to do. No intelligent person wants to hear the hate mongering and ignorance festering that is the christian religions. Freedom OF religion implies a freedom FROM religion.
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The Center for Constitutional Rights - The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) was co-founded in November 1966 by the radical attorneys Morton Stavis, Ben Smith, Arthur Kinoy, and William Kunstler, longtime members of the Communist and radical left. Prior to forming the Center, Kinoy and Kuntsler circulated a lengthy memo calling for the creation of a "new Communist Party," which did not materialize.
Among the most passionate crusades of Kinoy's legal career was his bid to save the lives of the convicted spies Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in 1953. He took similar pride in his heralded 1972 victory when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the government was obliged to obtain a warrant for telephone tapping, even in cases where national security was at stake.
All of this and more was lifted from Discover the Networks, a Guide to the Political Left
The Center for Constitutional Right is actually a center for NO Constitutional rights, just look at all there Comunist propoganda. What scares me is that these people's talking points are "fed" to Al Gore, and other members of the Democrat party.
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