Slashdot Mirror


GPL 3 to Take Hard Line on DRM

sebFlyte writes "ZDNet is reporting that Eben Moglen, the FSF's lead lawyer and the co-authour of GPL3, has explained that DRM is 'fundamentally incompatible' with the aims of the FSF and will be given short shrift in the latest version of the free software licence, which bans the use of 'digital restrictions' in GPL3 governed software. In his words: 'I recognise that that's a highly aggressive position, but it's not an aggression which we thought up. It's a defence related to an aggression which was launched against the people whose rights are our primary concern... We don't want our software used in a way which batters the head of the user to please somebody else. Our goal is the protection of users' rights, not movies' rights.'" We discussed the new GPL on Monday.

34 of 574 comments (clear)

  1. Sony fiasco related? by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if Sony's DRM screw-up and evidence that GPL'ed code was in their DRM software played any role in this rather firm approach.

    1. Re:Sony fiasco related? by AdamWeeden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would doubt it considering that they had already violated the GPL by not releasing their source. Why would an extra GPL violation matter?

      --
      I was quoted out of context in my autobiography...
    2. Re:Sony fiasco related? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Oh, I think the Sony DRM roll was just one point along a lengthy path.
      Andy Oram had a nice blog entry on the whole topic, in particular, towards the bottom:
      I hope FSF spokesperson Peter Brown is right in saying that we have a great opportunity to explain the benefits of freedom to the public over the coming year. I also sympathize with his claim that one must use the term "freedom" instead of focusing on "open source."
      But opponents of the "open source" terminology always caricature the term and its supporters. Those who pushed for open source have promoted its ethics and community benefits just as free software proponents have. The virtue of "openness" as a general principle is powerful, and has brought people out on the streets in many countries.
      I admit that the words "open source" do not slam the ethical challenge down on the table the way the word "freedom" does. But "open source" has helped free software spread to far more places in business and public organization. Now many more people have something to defend when the free software proponents warn them they're in danger of losing it.
      The GPL is swell. I can agree that abdicating freedom through the use of proprietary software is stupid. Deeming the sale of such "unethical" seems subjective. More generally, fretting about the motives of others seems a collosal distraction. I dunno.
      I wonder if the Free Software and Open Source communities don't have greater effect in combination than either would have had in isolation.
      I also wonder if the chief benefactor of all the theological thumb-wrestling isn't sitting in Redmond.
      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    3. Re:Sony fiasco related? by Firehed · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Well, the problem is that a good deal of people/companies that are likely to release under the GPL wouldn't haven the funding to start a legal battle, even if they find their GPL'd code being used in a way that violates the agreement. And that's a big "if".

      Certainly it's enforcable. Moreso than most agreements or contracts. But it's almost impossible to track down someone in violation, and quite unlikely you'll have the funding to do anything about it. I'm not sure how many banks give out loans to cover lawyer fees in order to file a lawsuit.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    4. Re:Sony fiasco related? by phiwum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "They didn't come after any of these people, they're just singling us out because we're more profitable" becomes a defense.

      How could that be a defense? Copyright isn't like trademark: a holder can selectively enforce his copyright if he chooses.

      Besides, I believe that a number of GPL infringements were stopped by the threat of lawsuit. So, at least certain would-be defendants wanted to avoid court.

      --
      Phiwum's law: anyone that names an obvious law after himself and then puts it in his own sig is just pathetic.
    5. Re:Sony fiasco related? by kwalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      GPL violations aren't "punished" like other violations are. Generally the restitution involves releasing the source to the modified GPL binaries a company releases. That's all most authors of GPL'd software are really after. That and a promise to not violate again. They don't go for big court settlements.

      --
      ... And so it comes to this.
    6. Re:Sony fiasco related? by 2b · · Score: 4, Informative
      I don't remember seeing any example of anyone being punished for it. Are there any such examples?
      The GPL is very enforcceable, but I'm not sure what you mean by "punished". Harald Welte(sp?) has won some legal victories over companies that were distributing his code in violation of the GPL - see http://www.gpl-violations.org/ for more info. The FSF also has a GPL compliance lab which has successfully enforced the GPL although they tend to work behind the scenes so I don't know if they have any public examples of the work that they've done.
  2. Wonderful by KarmaOverDogma · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's good to see someone with some amount of clout taking a stand against unreasonable constraint of fair use rights. I just hope that this becomes a catalyst in a chain reaction of rebellion against DRM, which manages access in the same way that a jail manages freedom (my apologies to the /.er who I took this .sig from - cant recall his/her name).

    --
    uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
  3. GPL3 players for DRMed media illegal then? by amigabill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So it won't be legal for someone to write a media player for someone else's media content that comes with DRM, and release this media player under GPL3? Sure, other licenses can be used for such things, but now such projects cannot benefit from other aspects of GPL3.

    1. Re:GPL3 players for DRMed media illegal then? by KiloByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why? Of course, you are allowed to write such a player (although certain laws like the DMCA can be a blocker). What you won't be able to is taking someone's player, encrust it with your DRM and distribute it without providing the key. GPLv3 just closes the loophole where someone can try to claim that the decryption key doesn't belong to the source.

      If you read GPLv2 as intended, this was already the case in that version -- source that can't produce functional binaries is not the real source; GPLv3 just amends the wording so shifty lawyers can't play word games.

      GPLv3 is not perfect and it has many warts, so bad that I would go Linus' way (pure v2) at this moment, but the DRM clause is one of its stronger upsides.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    2. Re:GPL3 players for DRMed media illegal then? by _xeno_ · · Score: 4, Informative
      GPLv3 is not perfect and it has many warts, so bad that I would go Linus' way (pure v2) at this moment, but the DRM clause is one of its stronger upsides.

      The GPLv3 isn't finalized. The Slashdot blurbs haven't really made this clear, but the current version is a draft. It's allowed to have warts. If you have issues with it, comment on them! The GPLv3 is still a draft. Changes can happen. Get involved. Be heard. It's an open process.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  4. Re:My problem with DRM... by Otter+Escaping+North · · Score: 5, Insightful
    As a writer, I'd like to be paid for my work. I'd rather not make it easy for people to redistribute my work without compensating me.

    I'm a writer as well, and a believer in the rights of content owners to be compensated.

    I think it's been proven time and again, though, that DRM is a failed concept that actually hinders consumers more than it thwarts pirates.

    Rights and compensation for copyright owners is an issue. DRM is not the answer.

    --
    Running Windows^H^H^H^H^H^H^H OSX and Linux in the home. (I don't have time for Solitaire any more.)
  5. Re:Signed packages by KiloByte · · Score: 5, Informative

    I demand that Red Hat immediately hand over all their private keys!

    Wrong. GPLv3 says that you need to provide all keys needed to make the software functional for its intended purpose, not the keys needed to make a bit-for-bit identical package.

    Thus, if your piece of software is supposed to be able to read scrambled data, you cannot hide the decryption key -- but, you are free to sign the packages to prove they are untampered binaries produced by you. In the former case, the program wouldn't work, in the latter, it just will trigger a warning from the OS which says the user is about to install unsigned binaries. No one forces the user to heed the warning, and she can disable it if she wants. No functionality is lost.

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  6. Re:My problem with DRM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sounds to me like you should look a distribution method called a "book".

    1) Harder to copy than a web-accessible PDF
    2) Conveniently sold in stores across the country.
    3) Open access by flipping pages.

  7. Sony fiasco is related by QuaintRealist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Broaden the meaning of this question and there is no doubt - the recent explosion of news events regarding DRM, especially the Sony issue, has hardened the opinions of many of us. Perhaps the use of GPL code did not itself have an effect, but the whole mess certainly did

    --
    Using plain ol' text since 1968
  8. Greater Gnu General Public Licence by Morosoph · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Restrictions on DRM are interesting, for there will be some who will want to extend the penetration of free software with an emaphasis upon programming freedom (of future programmers), and others who support the goal of general freedom.

    Linus may stick with GPL version 2 for the simple reason that he may wish to equip Linux to be able to implement hardware-based DRM. Linus is pragmatic in the straightforward sense: many Linux users will want access to DRMed material... Hence version 2, not version 3.

    Stallman is pragmatic in a more esoteric sense: the GPL version 2 has been increadibly successful. He is pitching the GPL version 3 to maximise freedom, and this blow against DRM will do exactly that. True, free software will have less penetration as a result, but the world will be a freer place for the compromise not being taken.

    From a moral angle, this clause allows programmers to restrict how the fruit of their skills is to be exploited, which is naturally within their right, as long as copyright is recognised in law.

  9. Right to read by redelm · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I'd be surprised if GPLv3 wasn't strongly against DRM, given one of Stallman's early papers Right-to-Read.Scarey stuff, and DRM has exactly these aims.

  10. DRM based on trust? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 4, Interesting

    since every drm schemed is eventually going to be hacked, and therefore the protection removed, not only for the ubergeeks but for everyone through file sharing systems. Since current drm imply shady business with the OS (Sony rootkit) and rights restriction (copying music between all the devices you own etc), since DRM has been critized to assume the consumers where outlaws. Then why not make a jump. I'd suggest a DRM system based on a simple RDF file indicating what the user has the right to do with the file... this file is attached to the media content. Sure, it'll be extremely easy to crack, so easy it won't even be fun. Ethic media players would read the file and tell you, this is the 10th time you've read this file. I can't read it anymore you need to buy another lease, or buy the song entirely etc.... Maybe I'm just a dreamer... after all how many sharewares, most of whom where not based on restrictions, just on nag screens after a certain period, where registered? Well maybe it's different for music, I don't know... But after all, the current DRM situation is the same with a little more obfuscation that's it... so why not?

    --
    \u262D = \u5350
  11. Re:why is this necessary? by tpgp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's an interview with Richard Stallman discussing Linus's decision to include DRM in the linux kernel.

    And here's a post from linus on the kernel mailing list (thread "flame linus to a crisp") talking about DRM in the linux kernel.

    So there you go GPLed DRM.

    --
    My pics.
  12. Sorry, no. by redelm · · Score: 4, Interesting
    When I write, it is principly to spread my ideas. Monetary compensation is secondary, if present at all. And I very much dislike reading those who write for lucre. It shows. Have you never seen an author "go bad" after early success? Clancey and Rowlings are obvious examples.

  13. whether or not the license says it... by QunaLop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...you cannot have drm in oss, it just is not possible. if your software can render it, which involves processing the drm (decrypt, etc) then you can remove the drm pretty much just as easily and since the rendering code is there for everyone to see, the is trivial to adjust the app to play to disk.

  14. Re:Shooting yourself in the foot? by _xeno_ · · Score: 4, Informative

    The GPL isn't, actually, a "play nice" style license as such - the entire concept is that it "guarentees freedom," trying to balance the freedoms of both the creator and the user. The Free Software Foundation is about the "right to tinker" (Stallman's words at the GPLv3 release), and that includes the right to tinker with a program's data files.

    Stallman is, essentially, an idealist. He wants to save the world - and he seems to honestly believe that allowing DRM to exist would destroy free software. So he's taken a hard-line stance against DRM in the GPLv3.

    It's sort of explained in the rational behind Section 3, which I'm just going to quote outright since it's so short:

    DRM is fundamentally in conflict with the freedoms of users that the GPL is designed to safeguard, but our ability to oppose DRM by means of free software licenses is limited. In section 3 we provide developers with some forms of leverage that they can use against DRM. The first paragraph essentially directs courts to interpret the GPL in light of a policy of discouraging and impeding DRM and other technical restrictions on users' freedoms and illegal invasions of users' privacy. This provides copyright holders and other GPL licensors with means to take action against activities contrary to users' freedom, if governments fail to act.

    The second paragraph of section 3 declares that no GPL'd program is part of an effective technological protection measure, regardless of what the program does. Ill-advised legislation in the United States and other countries has prohibited circumvention of such technological measures. If a covered work is distributed as part of a system for generating or accessing certain data, the effect of this paragraph is to prevent someone from claiming that some other GPL'd program that accesses the same data is an illegal circumvention.

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  15. Re:My problem with DRM... by MoxFulder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's true that iTunes DRM is some of the least obnoxious in terms of the practical restrictions it places on the user...

    BUT you're still entirely at the mercy of Apple. If they go out of business, or get bought out, or become more evil/greedy, then they can impose new restrictions on the use of their products.

    And while iTunes DRM does stop average Joe's from pirating songs, there's software out there to crack it, and it works.

  16. Re:Linus' thinking by Al+Dimond · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On your last point I agree; the "or later" clause to me means that anyone could choose to distribute so-licensed software under the terms of GPLv2 or GPLv3. But IANAL and there might be some other effect.

    I don't think, however, that GPLv2 expresses the FSF's political views in the same was that GPLv3 does. GPLv2 restricts only the ways that derivative works can be distributed (they must be distributed with source). GPLv3 also appears to restrict the function of your derivative works (they cannot be used for DRM). And I think it means that using GPLv3 on your own servers to facilitate DRM is also not allowed (might be wrong on that one though) which would make it an end-user license.

    GPLv2 expresses FSF's views on software distribution, while GPLv3 expresses FSF's views on software function. There is a big difference, and it could cause a lot of problems in the Free Software community. I can't say I agree with the changes in GPLv3, as someone that often waffles between preferring BSD-style licenses and GPLv2-style ones.

  17. Re:My problem with DRM... by doofusclam · · Score: 5, Insightful
    no-one seems to be particularly hindered by the DRM in iTunes


    I'd disagree with this. I have a music server that serves Foobar2000 on my windows PC, Amarok on my Linux HTPC and Music Player Daemon/Icecast so I can listen to my CDs at work. Much as i'd love to buy from itunes occasionally their DRM stops me from just dropping the tunes on my Linux server and using them as I see fit.

    The same goes for the audiophile types who spend 30k+ on home music server systems for the same reasons - Apples DRM prohibits them from using their legally bought music as they see fit.

    Back to P2P again then...
  18. Re:My problem with DRM... by swillden · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a writer, I'd like to be paid for my work. I'd rather not make it easy for people to redistribute my work without compensating me.

    Here's another writer's view on the issue. The whole essay is worth reading, but his second-to-last paragraph sums it up pretty well:

    The future can't be foretold. But, whatever happens, so long as writers are essential to the process of producing fiction -- along with editors, publishers, proofreaders (if you think a computer can proofread, you're nuts) and all the other people whose work is needed for it -- they will get paid. Because they have, as a class if not as individuals, a monopoly on the product. Far easier to figure out new ways of generating income -- as we hope to do with the Baen Free Library -- than to tie ourselves and society as a whole into knots. Which are likely to be Gordian Knots, to boot.

    And Eric Flint and other authors are putting their money where their mouth is: The Baen Free Library offers full, unabridged novels for free download, in multiple formats, with no DRM. Once they've gotten you hooked with that, the Baen Webscription site offers books for sale, for low prices, also in multiple formats and with no DRM.

    Baen has also put CDs in the backs of several recent hardcover releases, containing other books from the same author, books from other authors that readers may like to try, plus high-resolution copies of cover artwork (without the book title or other text -- just the art). The CDs not only include no DRM, but they also have a statement printed on the label that *encourages* the sharing of the content with friends and family. Baen does ask that you don't distribute the content to the whole world, but has never sued anyone over it. There was one fan of David Weber's Honor Harrington series who put the full text of all of the Harrington books on his web site. Jim Baen found out about it, but rather than threatening a lawsuit, he simply sent the fan an e-mail and explained how the fan's actions were counterproductive and damaging. The fan promptly took the material off-line.

    Baen has also recently started doing something new, too. They're now offering "Advance Reader Copies" of new books. These are unproofed versions of books that are going to be released in coming months. Serious fans buy them both because they don't want to wait for the release and also because there's something cool about reading their favorite authors' work in it's "raw, unpolished" form -- it's basically straight from the author's word processor. The advance copies start out at $15 and decline in steps as the publication date approaches. After release, of course, you can buy the final version for about $4.

    Oh, and everything is in multiple formats, with absolutely no DRM.

    This is innovation in publishing, and this is the sort of thing that can build a sufficiently large and loyal fanbase so that piracy is simply irrelevant.

    According to Jim Baen, the experiment has been extremely successful and profitable. Not only has it increased the sales of their current top authors, it has also allowed them to publish -- and profit from -- lots of their back catalog that would otherwise be impossible to publish.

    I know that I, personally, have spent *way* too much money on Baen books over the last two or three years. If there are others like me, and I'm sure there are, it's no wonder Baen is doing well.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  19. On the source of rights... by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You say that human rights are something we are born with. Something inherent, inalienable, natural, perhaps even God-given.

    Something we have simply by right of being alive is something we will hold cheaply and assume will always be there, like the air we breathe.

    Our rights are not God-given or inherent to ourselves. Nor are they granted to us by the benevolence of our rulers. Our rights were taken from our rulers, by force. Among all our ancestors were rebels and traitors, terrorists and pirates, mutineers and heretics and unionists and blackguards and revolutionaries and blasphemers and barbarians, and it is their struggle that we have to thank for the freedom we enjoy today. They fought against kings and barons, against tycoons and industrialists, against priests and popes, and they set themselves and their descendants free.

    When you give up a freedom to the state, or to the establishment, or to the company, you aren't giving up something that is yours to give away that you've had all your life and which you got for nothing. You're giving up something bought by the blood of countless rebels over the centuries. You're betraying the sacrifices made by your ancestors.

    A right we think is inalienable we will neglect and soon lose. A right we know was won by our ancestors through hardship and struggle we will defend forcefully.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  20. Restricting Use? by Wannabe+Code+Monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I absolutely hate DRM and believe that the DMCA should be repealed. I also believe there should be laws stating that no one should be able to place digital locks on material that a user has certain rights to which the locks curtail.

    However, I really don't know about this change in the GPL. I thought one of the things the GPL wanted to avoid were the extra clauses about what you could and couldn't use the software for. I seem to remember people who would write "free" software with the license almost identical to the GPL but then add things like "No one in the US Military is allowed to use this software." I was under the impression that people who truly wanted Free and Open Source Software to prevail were against these kinds of restrictions...

    --
    We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
  21. What it ACTUALLY forbids: by oneandoneis2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Some of the comments are nonsense like applying this to file permissions. So before you flame the decision, read it. Excerpt from the GPL:

    As a free software license, this License intrinsically disfavors technical attempts to restrict users' freedom to copy, modify, and share copyrighted works. Each of its provisions shall be interpreted in light of this specific declaration of the licensor's intent. Regardless of any other provision of this License, no permission is given to distribute covered works that illegally invade users' privacy, nor for modes of distribution that deny users that run covered works the full exercise of the legal rights granted by this License.

    In other words: This applies only to DRM that attempts to block copying of copyright material. Not Trusted Computing, not file permissions, not anything else.

    Ok?

    --
    So.. it has come to this
  22. Upset about the new GPL? by JackDW · · Score: 4, Informative
    Perhaps you don't like RMS's clearly political meddling here - what is he doing, trying to control what the GPL is all about, and making it oppose DRM?

    Well, it's not really a change. In spirit, the GPL has always opposed DRM. DRM, like proprietary software, takes away the control and freedom of choice that an end user should enjoy, and gives it to someone else. The GPL has always stood against the effects of proprietary software, on behalf of programmers and expert users. Now, it stands against those effects on behalf of every computer user too. Companies have an ethical choice when it comes to DRM, and I do hope that the actions of the FSF will serve to highlight this.

    --
    You're an immobile computer, remember?
  23. It's about freedom by Marillion · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Bruce Schneier once said, "Making bits uncopyable is like making water not wet." DVD Jon pointed out the the purpose of DRM isn't to prevent copying. Its purpose is to place constraints on the decoder.

    RMS started his crusade long before anyone heard of Microsoft when a printer manufacturer wouldn't give him the source code for a printer driver so he could fix the bugs that were preventing it from working on the computer he was using. RMS is about preventing artificial limits on a computers ability to meet the needs of its users.

    Over the years the artificial limits have included the unavailability (hoarding in RMS-speak) of source code and patents. Adding DRM is the next logicial addition.

    --
    This is a boring sig
    1. Re:It's about freedom by JoeBuck · · Score: 4, Informative
      While RMS tells the printer driver story in all his speeches, that's not really what kicked off his crusade.

      When Symbolics, Inc. hired away almost all of his colleagues at the MIT AI Lab and had them make all their extensions to the MIT code proprietary, RMS went on an incredible hacking binge, single-handedly duplicating the work of an entire small company and making all his code free. At his peak, he demonstrated that he could out-code whole teams of world-class experts (as long as we're talking about Lisp coding). The problem is, at the time he hadn't thought of copyleft yet; the Symbolics people could use his code; he could not use their code.

      He needed copyleft to be able to compete with proprietary software developers and have a chance of winning. Same deal with Linux.

  24. Re:My problem with DRM... by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Informative

    I quit buying iTunes songs because of their DRM. My car CD player will play a disc full of MP3's just fine. I can fit around 12 hours of music on a CD by burning MP3's to it.

    Apple's DRM only lets me make a Redbook-audio format CD, thus reducing my CD capacity by almost 90%. All becaues of ARTIFICIAL limitations. I could technically burn it to redbook first, then rerip back to MP3, but that hassle simply isn't worth it.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  25. Re:My problem with DRM... by MoxFulder · · Score: 4, Interesting
    You nullify the point you were trying to make with your closing statement. An effective argument does not contradict itself.
    I contradicted myself nowhere! Saying something is ineffective does NOT mean it's not unjust. I think that Soviet-style communism is a stunningly bad way to run a government (so much so that's it's collapsed in most of the countries where it was tried), but that doesn't mean it's not unjust and worth fighting against.
    This is why so many anti-DRM types come off as reactionary, there is ALWAYS a way around the protection for thse inclined to find and use it, so DRM is NOT A BIG DEAL.
    The fact that a crack is found for almost all DRM does not make my anti-DRM arguments invalid.

    DRM is more than a technical measure these days. It is also a legal measure. You can be charged with a crime for distributing a DRM crack (e.g. Skylarov, DVD Jon), even if the DRM is hopelessly insecure from a technical perspective.

    Furthermore, cracking DRM takes time and needlessly wastes resources. Lots of users don't know how to get the cracks. Plus the cracks typically only run on systems with well-documented operating systems. To my knowledge no one has released an iTunes DRM crack that actually runs *on the iPod*. So even if DRM is cracked on desktop computers, it can still render a lot of portable devices nearly useless if the original vendor turns evil.

    The way I see it, the worst examples of DRM (I would not include iTunes in that group) constantly harass users, even if they're easily circumvented. Imagine if books had DRM, for example: your hardback books would lock themselves shut unless you plugged them into the phone line for a few seconds to open them. Even if there was an easy hack, you'd still be paying the publishing company to put that crap in the book in the first place.

    My point is: DRM places an economic and legal burden on consumers even if it's easy to circumvent.