Myware and Spyware

smooth wombat writes "A new startup aims to provide you with a piece of software that stores all of your sufing habits. Where you go, how long you stay, how many hours online you spend surfing, etc. Why? So you can then offer that information to companies in exchange for something of value. Seth Goldstein's company is in the early testing stages of a service called Root Vaults which right now only works with Firefox. You can choose whether to send this data to your Root Vault, some other service, or just store it on your computer. There are a few restrictions on the use of this data. From the article: 'Any company that uses this data must agree to four basic principles: the data is the property of the user, it can be moved from one service or device to another at will, it can be exchanged for something of value, and the user has the right to know who is using it and how.'"

Comments

How much

[Anonymous Coward]

is the information of a single person really worth? I don't see how the time and effort would be worth it to install this program and then sell the data.

Re:How much

[croddy]

it's like a focus group. the purpose is not to gain statistically significant demographic information, but rather to understand why and how people exhibit certain behaviors.

Something of value?

[Aladrin]

Something of value? A penny is of value. And they can require you amass 10,000 pennies to cash out your value. This clause prevents nothing.

Besides which... Companies can already obtain this information without the user knowing, why would they pay?

Re:Something of value?

[Aladrin]

Ah, but notice I said 'without the user knowing' instead of 'without paying'. Companies have to pay SOMEONE to get that data for them, even if it's just an in-house programmer.

In this case, I think it's more important that the user is unaware of the information leak. Surfing habits that have knowingly stored and sold are going to be VERY different from those collected without the user knowing. Now -that- is human nature. We shouldn't CARE what these companies know we did, but we're not going to sell them information that we are ashamed of. (Or a great many other reasons, I'm sure.)

I'm not saying the 'something for nothing' syndrome isn't valid, too, but it isn't as applicable here.

right to know?

[engagebot]

"it can be exchanged for something of value, and the user has the right to know who is using it and how."

we'll see how this works. i think if they're *buying* the info from you (aka you recieve value for it), i'm not sure how much say you have over what they do with it.

Re:right to know?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why sell it to them? Do what they do and 'LICENSE' it.

Great Idea...sort of

[jasongetsdown]

So make you info available on your own terms. Great idea, but why barter with each individual when you can still buy their info wholesale. Data wholesalers aren't just going to go away, and this still doesn't keep others from tracking you without your permission.

Depends on the PRize

[Alex P Keaton in da]

What is this thing of value? If they offer me something that I really want, I would consider it, on my work machine. No way I would let anyone monitor my home habits however. What could monitoring me at work hurt? All they would see is slashdot and various news sites....

Re:Depends on the PRize

[whitehatlurker]

What exactly do you do at home, behind clsoed doors, when nobody is looking?

I correct spelling and grammar on slashdot. It keeps me occupied. And you?

Terms of Service

[Mean Variance]

Any company that uses this data must agree to four basic principles: the data is the property of the user, it can be moved from one service or device to another at will, it can be exchanged for something of value, and the user has the right to know who is using it and how.

And some company that agrees to this (wink, wink) decides to violate those terms. Then what?

I'll keep my browsing to myself. I can see this being part of the default install from the IS department at a corporation near you.

Cheat the system

[Arthur B.]

Remembers me those "get paid to surf" adbars... eventually people will find a way to cheat the system to make more money, making the stats useless.

Frequent Shopping Card @ Grocery Store

[dada21]

This reminds me of the frequent shopping card you can use at the grocery store. I don't have one of those (I actually just use one of my parent's phone numbers for the discounts).

I think I'd be happy to trade my browsing patterns in exchange for something. I already don't mind advertisements on websites that I like (and if they have ads that seem interesting to me, I will always not only click the ads but try to make a purchase if I like the product/price.). I don't mind cookies or any of that stuff. I know it is there, and I don't really care what they do with my "information" as I don't have anything to lose in the lifestyle I live.

I actually support these "invasios of privacy" as they help bring me a better browsing experience when people know what I am looking for and are out there supporting (through AdSense or direct advertising) the content creators I go to every day. I subscribe to /. but I still click links that interest me -- do you? I've made purchases through /. and told the advertiser it was because of slashdot that I found them and that I support them.

I don't support spyware though, unless I know I can get something out of it. I'd give up all my browsing experience in exchange for a little residual return -- maybe if I knew what ad clicks earned the site, or if I knew that I had an effect on what advertisers would offer me.

My big hope for AdSense this year is that Google goes beyond contextual targetting, but also finds a way for users to "vote" certain ads up and down based on their identity. I don't need to see some ads, but I'll be happy to support advertisers who know what I want and support the sites I visit.

Re:Frequent Shopping Card @ Grocery Store

[sammy baby]

When I read the phone number, I couldn't help singing it. Only there aren't enough digits in a standard US phone number to sing, "One two three fouuuur five, six seven eight niiiine ten, eleven twelve."

Re:Frequent Shopping Card @ Grocery Store

[the chao goes mu]

Singing? 867-5309.

I suspect a complete non-starter.

[Control Group]

What value is there in my personal data? How important is highly-specific tracking data on one person? The value of marketing data, in my understanding, is in being able to match marketing to potentially profitable demographics. As such, personal data is highly valuable in volume, but I doubt the value of any individual's information. My grocery store is willing to give me a couple bucks in discounts every couple weeks to track my purchasing habits. At a guess, I'd say it would amount to maybe ~$100/yr if I took them up on it.

But that's a long way from actually paying me money. And even if real cash were involved, how many people are going to trust the system enough and go to the effort of proactively doing this for the prospect of an extra $100/yr?

My guess is, not enough people to make the marketing data harvested worth the money or effort. And that's not even considering that companies are more than capable of getting most of this information already at no cost...

But I could be way off base, or missing something.

Its worth a free ipod

[ad0gg]

Send your browsing habits in and [b]complete a few easy offers[/b] and you can have a free ipod!!!

Re:Wow...not a bad idea

[gcw1]

As far as I'm concerned spyware is never a good thing. Especially the ones that claim you have control.

5th provision

[jasongetsdown]

I'd like a 5th provision to the agreement. The data will not be linked to my identity. I don't mind providing anonymous stats but I want at least a little privacy.

Make it up

[matt me]

We all know the web isn't the "click here for free mony [sic]" place pop-ups have led us to believe. In deed putting adverts on your personal website, sending free ipod links, selling spam emails, google referrals, beanz, whatever you don't earn money like this. But anyway, why can't we just make up some data and then send it?

Value of a new lead

[Anonymous Coward]

A penny is of value

Except we're all worth a hell of a lot more than that as a prospective, qualified lead. Depending on the product/service being sold, a new lead can go from $25 to several hundred dollars (higher end, more detailed data can go even higher).

I'd expect no less than $50 per vendor, to be split at some level with the information broker. Perhaps 25% to the customer from every lead, though it's getting close to "not worth my time" at $10-$15 per lead and will dillute their data with mostly lower-end leads.

Now if we can somehow work the credit agencies into this mix. They're making billions by selling your information without your permission (oh sure, you agree to release it with each vendor that reports you to the bureaus). Add to that the expense they add when they maintain incorrect information or allow their poorly secured system to be abused by identity thieves.

It's the new AllAdvantage.com!

[sulli]

I bet people set up PC surfbot farms just to get paid until their VC runs out.

Who owns the information?

[erroneus]

I really wonder who owns the information being brokered. It leads me to a lot of questions... some not related to this topic specifically though.

One question I ask myself is if I can copyright my personal data. And when I see the information being misused, can I then sue for copyright infringement?

Re:Who owns the information?

[31415926535897]

One question I ask myself is if I can copyright my personal data. And when I see the information being misused, can I then sue for copyright infringement?

That's a really good idea, but I am pretty sure that your personal data would be classified as fact and therefore not "copyrightable." Although, watch for the lawsuits against MLB and the MLBPA for the licensing of player statistics. If the MLB wins, then I think you have a good case for copyrighting your personal data.

Incoming!

[meringuoid]

A perl script to automatically surf pages on a spare machine and fill this thing up with valid-looking but nonetheless phony data, in 5... 4... 3...

Tinfoil-hat Comment

[Stan Vassilev]

"A new startup aims to provide you with a piece of software that stores all of your sufing habits. Where you go, how long you stay, how many hours online you spend surfing, etc. Why?"

Here's few why:

- So it can gain user's trust, but is in fact glorified spyware
- So police has an easy storage to inspect should RIAA/MPAA decide to sue you for visiting pirate torrent trackers, grokster.com or other such activity (hey, you're not anonymous! they, OMG, they got your IP!!)
- So malware has an easy storage to collect user info for it and send it out, instead of collecting it itself.

And what if the company owns your comp? (Empolyer)

[Elixon]

Perfect tools for watching behavior of your emplyees? Isn't it?

"Hello John, I noticed that you read the slashdot and the window with the slashdot page has a focus about 3hours average every day. You are fired." ;-)

finally, software for sufis

[Anonymous Coward]

"a piece of software that stores all of your sufing habits."

As a whirling dervish, I've been looking forward to software to keep track of my total number of spins.

Grocery stores do it too.

[tom2275]

The local Albertsons grocery store has the same program. You sign up for one of their "reward cards" and you get discounts off many items. On a typical $200 shopping, I'll save $15. Selling my info is worth it there, why not online?

Re:Grocery stores do it too.

[the chao goes mu]

Of course, in the days before discount cards they would have given those discounts to everyone and called them "sales". So, actually, they are giving out fewer discounts than they would have and getting marketing info for free.

Re:Grocery stores do it too.

[2short]

I don't remember too many "sales" at the grocery store. They certainly tried a lot of ways to trade minor discounts for marketing data though; coupons being the most obvious. I'd guess they're giving out comparitively more discounts these days (and possibly raising prices to cover it) and getting much better marketing data.
I don't worry much about the supermarket discount cards though. They generally don't care if you give them a real name, because mostly they don't even track it. The valuable data is "People who buy product X also buy product Y". The grocery business is famous for it's slim margins; slim meaning like 1%. It is essential to them that hey not have stuff taking up shelf space that isn't selling.

Re:Grocery stores do it too.

[TiggertheMad]

Of course, in the days before discount cards they would have given those discounts to everyone and called them "sales". So, actually, they are giving out fewer discounts than they would have and getting marketing info for free.

True, but you can fight back. For example, Safeway is currently collecting data on one 'Wombat Jones' of South Gnome Alaska. And to further confuse things, I trade these cards around with my friends as often as I can. If you pay cash, they cannot attach the shopping data to any real person, and you still get the discount.

The more they try to gather information about me, the more I feel obligated to isnure that it is incorrect. I don't object to them collecting sales information for stock control purposes, but as soon as they try to figure out who shopper #00023217002 is, I draw the line.

Re:Grocery stores do it too.

[TheJorge]

I have cards for the three major chains where I live. I haven't given a name for any of them. Every time, they give me the plastic card and a form to fill out. The form goes in the trash, and the card works fine without it.

This seems to lend credit to your "People who buy product X also buy product Y" tracking. But is a card really all that necessary? It's not like I'm running into the giant megastore to buy a candy bar. They already can get this data from each of my visits-- how important is it that they can tie subsequent visits together?

Rather than product association, I bet it has a lot to do with spending patterns. If I'm spending $300 every two weeks for a year, then skip a month, it's pretty obvious I went to another store. If there's a trend of a lot of customers jumping ship, they can compare it to recent price increases. It'd be incredibly valuable to know that high milk and bread prices drive people away more quickly than laundry detergent or meats.

Re:Grocery stores do it too.

[ShadowBlasko]

Finally it is worth something here.

Kroger stores with attached gas stations will give you ten cents per gallon off of your gas purchase (one per) if you purchased over $100 in groceries in the previous month. This is good for one gas purchase per $100 in purchases.

Now that can add up fast, and it is obvious that gas prices are competitive with others in the area. (I also live very close by, and we will fuel multiple cars per purchase, sometimes over $200-300 in gas)

That is saving me REAL money, and I can not detect that grocery prices have risen to compensate, so I am all for it.

Re:Unfortunately

[stinerman]

Yes, this was an obvious troll, but bear with me.

"Open source" only guarantees that you have access to the source, nothing more. Putting spyware in an open source app isn't the smartest idea since anyone could simply take it out and recompile the binary.

Free software will guarantee a bit more than open source. It guarantees several freedoms (of which I won't list here) and possibly in the future protection from DRM.

In short, spyware and open source are not mutually exclusive, but spyware and free software are.