Slashdot Mirror


Crisis in Science Prompts Sharing of Data

Carl Bialik from the WSJ writes "'The crisis in "translational science," or turning basic discoveries into therapies, has been brewing for years, but it hit a depressing nadir in 2005, when just 20 new drugs won approval from the Food and Drug Administration,' Sharon Begley writes in the Wall Street Journal. Concerned researchers and foundations are pushing for more sharing of data between basic scientists and clinical investigators, and Stanford is launching a program to train doctoral students in bench-to-bedside research."

22 of 184 comments (clear)

  1. I'm not sure I understand... by minginqunt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, what, the 'success' of science is now judged by how many drugs are rushed through FDA certification without proper testing?

    Or is there a real crisis here that the article doesn't do anything to elucidate?

    1. Re:I'm not sure I understand... by IAmTheDave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a tough egg to crack because everything revolves around money. Research requires money, and unless there is measured output, money invested is considered lost by the enterprises that supply said money.

      Add on to that that much of the research money comes from private or public for-profit agencies, and you have a real connundrum on your hands.

      Unfortunately, pure science and pure investors often clash when it comes to desired outcome. Scientists are often happy to take years and years to develop therapies or make discoveries to be sure that the science itself is rock-solid. However, investors require that their investments - often not all their own money - yields dividends and results in made money.

      Until we have some system in place that supports scientific research without requiring an immediate return on ivestment, this crisis will continue unabated.

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    2. Re:I'm not sure I understand... by Radres · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...and the great mind that you have found to do this thinking, does its physical vessel not neccesitate food, clothing, shelter, as well as desire other things such as entertainment and family? Why would this great mind settle for spending its time thinking for free when someone else would give it the means to obtain its needs and desires elsewhere (perhaps not even in the fields of math or computer science)?

    3. Re:I'm not sure I understand... by BarryNorton · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Those phases are still largely a waste of time as long as you don't actually have to test your brand new drug against anything other than a placebo
      Say what you like about testing efficacy, but testing safety is a very important part of clinical trials...
  2. Why would the business people want that? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By restricting the sharing of information and data, the maximum profit potential can be extracted from it.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Why would the business people want that? by recycledpork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually I think that pretty much every economic theory would suggest that trading and sharing actually benefits all parties involved. I realize that you are being sarcastic, but maybe if people would actually apply the knowledge humans have acquired instead of just doing business as usual we would all be better off.

      --
      - w00t?
    2. Re:Why would the business people want that? by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pharma companies consider failed clinical trials to be trade secrets.

      The FDA is not legally allowed to divulge the results of anythign that's withdrawn from approval.

      Basically, if everyone told everyone else about what didn't work, the only companies that would benefit are those developing similar products. First to market usually has a huuuge advantage, which is why no company wants to help its competitors get ahead.

      This addresses only one aspect of TFA & what you're saying, but that's how it is. Not that it is a good thing, since undisclosed trials/failures usually equates with undisclosed risks.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Why would the business people want that? by Bob9113 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually I think that pretty much every economic theory would suggest that trading and sharing actually benefits all parties involved.

      But you are adding a presupposition in your hypothesis. "benefits all parties involved" implies a limited subset of economic theories; those that are intended to benefit societies, such as capitalism, communism, and socialism. This neglects the one we use in the United States; corporatism. Corporatism is essentially tribalism applied to the corporation. Each tribe sees itself as the only concern, and all other tribes as competition for limited resources (wealth in this case). The goal is not to maximize overall wealth, or even to maximize the wealth of the tribe, but to capture more wealth than the competing tribes.

      Further, when this objective is taken seriously, the result can not only be a reduction in total satisfaction of wants for all tribes, it can even lead to a reduction in satisfaction of wants by the most powerful tribe: If the goal is only to do better than the other tribes, that goal is best acheived by dedicating some amount of resources to debilitating the competing tribes. That is; you come in first with less wealth than you would have garnered had you come in second in a cooperative scenario. This is not a cooperative scenario - it is tribalism.

      For an example of our belief in this and our glorification of it, you need look no further than the "get off my island" television show (whose name escapes me at the moment).

  3. FDA regulation by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Creates barriers to entry.
    Consolidates power into large multi-nationals.
    Preserves the status quo.
    Does not change the fundamental fact the individual must remain responsible.

    The FDA cannot make you safe.

    We would probably be just as unsafe as we are now, but with more choices, faster time to market, and with smaller companies participating.

    If we had had an FDA for computers we would never have had a PC revolution start in some stoner's garage.

    1. Re:FDA regulation by design by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But without the FDA, what exactly would be the difference between drug companies and your local ketamine peddler down the street?

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re:FDA regulation by design by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Your approach to drug deregulation was tried in the 19th century, and it was an abysmal failure. Most drugs on the market were ineffective, dangerous, or even lethal.

      Today, this unregulated approach continues with the "herbal remedy" market. Once again, most of these products are ineffective or dangerous.

      Where do you get the idea that things would be any different if no approval were needed for real drugs today?

  4. Wonderful by LostAngel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh yes, I would much rather have 5000 new drugs, that might have adverse side effects and will kill me...than to have 10 new drugs that have had a bunch of research done...

  5. When you make science commercial... by analog_line · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Science is run by corporations now. Non-commercial scientific research has been getting the gas pipe for years. Corporate scientists are more than willing to take all the data the silly hippy scientists are willing to give them for free. They're not so willing to share their data in return, because their shareholders will string them up.

    This is what you get with that cushy research job at the biotech company, folks. Now it can start biting you in the ass, just like your greed has bankrupted the rest of us.

  6. Hmmmm. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's almost like crazy patents are stifling innovation...Who'da thunk it?

    Seriously, as long as you have to pay, and pay, and pay just for the methods to work with x or y type of gene so that you can SEE what your drugs are doing, you're not going to be zipping along at record pace. And, as ridiculous as IP law has become, I can't imagine you'd be comfortable bouncing ideas off your peers at other labs...I mean, the point of that is to see if they have a solution, but if they have a solution, then they'll probably throw a cup of hot coffee in your face and run down to the patent office.

    What did they think was going to happen when they started this crap?

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  7. only 20 new drugs? by Analog+Squirrel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh my god!!! Seriously, are all the old ones becoming obsolete or something? Isn't that where the pharmaceutical companies should be making most of their money? Or is there such a premium on "new" drugs that they can't stay profitable without them? If that is the case, it sounds to me like there are some pretty unsustainable business models out there. You really can't dictate innovation... unless of course, someone starts designing new diseases so you can then trot out the cure to them as a new product...

    --
    I'd rather be flying
    1. Re:only 20 new drugs? by mwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "...unless you create new diseases." You've been reading "The Sumerian Oath", haven't you.

      Anyway, drugs don't cure diseases; they cure *instances* of diseases. If a doctor sets your broken leg, that doesn't mean there won't be any more broken legs in the future. Likewise my taking something for high cholesterol doesn't prevent someone else developing high cholesterol today or 100 years from today. Most drugs being developed today are not aimed at killing pathogens, but at adjusting the patient's own chemistry, and only those who take them get any health benefit whatsoever.

      Besides, pharmaceutical manufacturers should remember their history. Modern pharmaceutical development grew out of the dyeing business. If there ever really is dearth of illness, there's gotta be *some* other use for all that skill and understanding. The clever ones will move into genetic surgery or general molecular engineering or what-have-you, and the overall economy will be better off without the other ones.

  8. Making mice is translational? by nucal · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "The collaboration has gotten 'pure' researchers out of their ivory towers and truly engaged in working on human disease."

    Making a knockout mouse may be a more physiological model but it's still a far cry from really working on human disease. It may be more sophisticated than cells in a dish but it's still basic research.

    What does this author have against basic research anyways .. the tone of the article is really negative:

    It has a pile of discoveries to show for it -- but no cure.

    Discoveries, after all, are supposed to be good for something besides filling science journals.

    No kidding! But how can anyone even begin to take a rational approach to medicine without basic research? There is a place for excellent basic research, just as there is a place for truly clinically oriented research.

  9. Re:The problem is the FDA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Rushing it not a good idea. Proper testing is necessary. What you are proposing could cost a greater number of lives.

  10. Patents and IP are a problem by MojoRilla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If we wonder why there are less and less drugs getting approval, we need to look at what researchers and universities are doing with the science the American taxpayer pays for.

    Since 1980, universities and individual researchers have had the right to patent IP paid for by public funds. This was obstensibly done to "facilitate the exploitation of government-funded research results by transferring ownership from the government to universities and other contractors who could then license the IP to firms."

    However, it is clear how this would have a chilling effect on basic research. Surely cooperation has suffered at the expense of competition. Patents have been a disaster for software, where synthesis of many ideas are important to create products. It is probably similar for the biological sciences.

    These researchers are funded by public money. Their results need to be used for the public benefit, and shared publicly.

  11. Re:The problem is the FDA by jgrana · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's only one case where I agree with you, and that's when a drug has been tested extensively internationally and there's solid clinical data there to back it up. If a drug's been used in Europe, Asia, or Australia for years with no major incidences of serious side effects, then YES, it should be fast-tracked for approval. If the data's there internationally to show the drug's safe, why should the US researchers need to replicate years and years of European data and navigate that red tape?

  12. Re:Nothing by Qzukk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And you would know it was clean, pharma-grade, and legitimate because the guy in the trenchcoat said so?

    The government has two powers that no Consumer Reports or other private watchdog has: The power to compel, and the power to punish.

    Take Vioxx, for instance. Thanks to the government's power to compel the release of evidence, we now know that Merck knew about the drug's dangerous side effects for some time, and chose to not notify consumers of the risk in order to keep from scaring them away and keep their sales up. Libertarians like to dream that they could set up companies to do the same thing, but no watchdog company would ever have been able to walk into Merck and demand copies of incriminating internal memos and succeed.

    The FDA may be corrupt and useless, but I don't believe a world without it where companies could do whatever they want without at least a facade of obeying some regulations would be a better one than where we are now.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  13. Re:Can't be true! by Heembo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    when just 20 new drugs won approval from the Food and Drug Administration

    Crisis? Seems like they are getting their act together. It takes TIME to really know what these drugs do, and I for one am not happy with so many drugs get released and are then pulled a few years later due to some life threatening side effect.

    --
    Horns are really just a broken halo.