Slashdot Mirror


Wikipedia vs Congressional Staffers [Update]

There has been quite a bit of recent reporting on the recent troubles between Wikipedia and certain Congressional staffers. In response, abdulzis mentions that "an RFC, Wikipedia's mediation method to deal with 'disharmonious users', has been opened to take action against US Congressional staffers who repeatedly blank content and engage in revert wars and slanderous or libelous behavior which violates Wikiepdia code. The IP ranges of US Congress have been currently blocked, but only for a week until the issue can be addressed more directly."

23 of 433 comments (clear)

  1. Congress blocked :P by the-amazing-blob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And now Congress will vote to make freely-editable online encyclopedias illegal. Freedom of speech loses in a landslide. :D

    Or perhaps we can come to an agreement where no one edits other entries for the purpose of skewing information. That would make me smile.

    1. Re:Congress blocked :P by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Tis the season to reform i guess.

      What might be more interesting to acknowledge is that Wikipedia is giving the public a glimpse at some of the ugliness of politics. Juvenille name calling, re-inventing the truth, hiding criticism, libel, slander, etc. Some may say that the majority is by junior staffers and even high school level pages and wash it under the rug. More than likely this is just a reflection of the atmosphere that exists in these offices. I say we consider wikipedia a honey pot for catching dishonorable officials :)

    2. Re:Congress blocked :P by plover · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Unfortunately, your second statment is the epitome of the "Tragedy of the Commons." There is ALWAYS another troll, someone who wants to maliciously sow dissent just to provoke a reaction. In some of these congressional cases it's a blatant attempt at a "revisionist history", while in others it's been purely "vandalism" -- the posting of the goatse trolls is a good example of that.

      But the problem is that one man's troll is another man's political statement. Google for "santorum" some time, and hit "I'm feeling lucky". Some people consider that a political statement, and some consider it a troll. Both are right! So how do you include both points of view on a description of "santorum"? If you include the gross description, you've trolled Senator Santorum's supporters. If you censor the description, you're invalidating the political position of his opponents. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. And the third choice, eliminating mention of both santorum and Senator Santorum, does an even worse disservice to history by removing his legitimate accomplishments as well as the voice of his opposition.

      While it would be nice to think otherwise, it's an impossible fantasy to hope that there will never be web vandals.

      --
      John
    3. Re:Congress blocked :P by hackstraw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And now Congress will vote to make freely-editable online encyclopedias illegal. Freedom of speech loses in a landslide.

      Although it is becoming more the norm to go against the constitution, I believe the system will prevail or there will be a revolution and government overthrow.

      How long did it take for the Supreme Court to figure out that black people and women were people? A long time, but it did eventually take place.

      Or perhaps we can come to an agreement where no one edits other entries for the purpose of skewing information. That would make me smile.

      Wikipedia will always have issues like this, especially with "controversial" content.

      "There's no right, there's no wrong, there's only popular opinion."

      -- Jeffrey Goines, 12 Monkeys

      Popular opinion always rules. Maybe the Wikipedia code can be modified so that a "hot" article can only have X lines of changes per user per period of time. If congressman X edits a file and others are watching, the others will dominate and keep the popular opinion alive.

    4. Re:Congress blocked :P by drDugan · · Score: 3, Insightful


        There is ALWAYS another troll, someone who wants to maliciously sow dissent just to provoke a reaction


      I disagree on "always" ... under our current society rules, yes, but humans will stop making trolls when the purpose for our lives is to create a good and happy life for all people, and not "get all we can for ourself" ruleset we follow now.

    5. Re:Congress blocked :P by Have+Blue · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "There's no right, there's no wrong, there's only popular opinion."

      -- Jeffrey Goines, 12 Monkeys
      I am obligated to point out that the character you are quoting to back up your argument is a lunatic.
    6. Re:Congress blocked :P by sbrown123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some people consider that a political statement,

      Yes, it is a political statement. But it's by some guy who doesn't like Sen. Santorum. Stopping that page would be like taking away his right to free speech.

      eliminating mention of both santorum and Senator Santorum, does an even worse disservice to history by removing his legitimate accomplishments as well as the voice of his opposition.

      Wikipedia is meant to represent a non-biased view of people, places, and things. The anti-Santorum page you mentioned does not even try to make you believe that it is a fair and balanced view of Sen. Sanotorum. If I were to research Sen. Sanotorum for some reason, I would not use the page you mentioned but rather expect to find honest, non-biased information about him in Wikipedia: good and bad. Removing truthful information about Sanotorum that could be seen as negative by him or others is attempting to revise history or hide the truth.

    7. Re:Congress blocked :P by geminidomino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree on "always" ... under our current society rules, yes, but humans will stop making trolls when the purpose for our lives is to create a good and happy life for all people, and not "get all we can for ourself" ruleset we follow now.

      Right. Shortly after Doctor Donut perfects cold fusion in his Licorice Lab on Lollipop Lane.

      Pardon me if I don't hold my breath waiting for the overthrowing of human nature.

    8. Re:Congress blocked :P by sbrown123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wikipedia is a wiki editable by those who follow its stated policy. Otherwise, you can be banned.

  2. Too much time on their hands. by bigtallmofo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do we need any further evidence that congress people and their staff have too much time on their hands? I hope in the contentious atmosphere that plagues Washington these days that people from all sides of the political spectrum can agree that Congress is given too many resources to accomplish too little.

    Next they'll be wasting all their time on Slashdot.

    --
    I'm a big tall mofo.
    1. Re:Too much time on their hands. by deanoaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >>> Do we need any further evidence that congress people and their staff have too much time on their hands?

      Maybe not, but think of all the evil they could do if they really applied themselves all of the time. I sleep better at night knowing they waste a lot of their time fiddling Wikipedia entries and blogging, etc.

      "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby

      --
      If 'the people' in Amendment 2 are 'the state' then Amendments 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 benefit the state, not you.
    2. Re:Too much time on their hands. by monkeydo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you ever watched CSPAN?

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
  3. Re:DUPE by XaXXon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, it's called a FOLLOW-UP. This article contains more information than the previous one.

    I mean, the editors screw up enough, why call them out even more than we have to?

  4. Re:Congressional Trolls by alphamugwump · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, when you think about it, a successful politician is not really that different from a successful troll. The idea with both is to somehow stir up an issue that people are rabid about. In the case of a troll, it is just for sheer fun or whatever, but when politicians do it, it gets them into office.

  5. Re:Congressional Trolls by rnpg1014 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What disturbs me more is the idea that the people we elect to Congress behave childishly enough to get Federal IP addresses blocked from a major website. Quite honestly, I move to give literacy tests before giving voting privelidges...

    --
    - Nick
  6. You know what this is.... by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DC underlings all hang out together, drink together, live together and brag incessantly to each other about who is the most important. My guess would be that this has nothing to do with the legislators themselves and everything to do with with interns generating ammunition for trash-talking at Lulu's. The Senators themselves aren't organized enough to be doing this in such large numbers, nor do they know what Wikipedia is. It's the 19-year-olds doing it.

  7. double standard by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look, I think the political creatures in Washington are essentially pork-feeding, selfish, backbiting wh0res generally, but let's be honest - they are not alone.

    The IP ranges of US Congress have been currently blocked, but only for a week until the issue can be addressed more directly.
    This is simply WRONG. I'd wager that a HUGE number of people posting in Wiki are self-interested, or are grinding some sort of political axe.

    Just because John Smith isn't actually EMPLOYED by the DNC doesn't mean his revision about President G.W. Bush is automatically based on an altruistic desire to post the truth. One minute reading any intarweb forum will tell you that much.

    Roberta Johnson could be posting a revision to the Ted Kennedy article because she's an ardent Republican that hates him. Her edits are somehow more 'valid' than that of a staffer in Cheney's office?

    Wikipedia is an open document. The revisions are clear and publicly visible. Why is it all right to censor and prohibit posters whose motivations are obviously suspect, while completely (naively?) ignoring the gazillions of posters whose motivations are probably no less base, but not obviously so?

    This is wrong.

    --
    -Styopa
  8. Re:Tragedy of the commons by jacoplane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some would disagree with you that the tragedy of the commons applies in this case:

    "When people reflexively apply this model to open-source cooperation, they expect it to be unstable with a short half-life. Since there's no obvious way to enforce an allocation policy for programmer time over the Internet, this model leads straight to a prediction that the commons will break up, with various bits of software being taken closed-source and a rapidly decreasing amount of work being fed back into the communal pool.

    In fact, it is empirically clear that the trend is opposite to this. The trend in breadth and volume of open-source development can be measured by submissions per day at Metalab and SourceForge (the leading Linux source sites) or announcements per day at freshmeat.net (a site dedicated to advertising new software releases). Volume on both is steadily and rapidly increasing. Clearly there is some critical way in which the ``Tragedy of the Commons'' model fails to capture what is actually going on."
    -- Eric Raymond

  9. Evolution of a System by j_f_chamblee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Between this article and previous articles concerning the locking of Wikipedia pages, I can't help but wonder if what is happening amounts to some kind of evolution. Depending on how Wiki solves this, what we may see is the system evolving to include some form of the old fashioned, but sometimes maligned model of peer review. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is an interesting process to watch -- especially for somebody (like me) who thinks peer review is good thing.

    --
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard Feynman
  10. Sad of Affairs by Cal+Paterson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a sad state of affairs when we have to block our own goddamn house of government for vandalising public property.

  11. Priorities, not time by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not that they have too much time on their hands. They consider this a big enough priority to spend time on it instead of other tasks. A politician's first priority is usually their public image. Legislative tasks come second. That's the real problem.

  12. Every Wiki's Inherent Design Flaw by rdmiller3 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Any system which depends upon unrealistic expectations will doom its maintainers to an endless, futile battle.

    Wikipedia has some really cool content, but the more generally appealing it becomes, the more it will attract the attention of vandals, propagandists, scammers, spammers, compulsive liars, and other pushers of misinformation.

    The takers far outnumber the makers.

  13. Let them try by 99luftballon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wikipedia is a valuable resource, but its value will increasingly become tied to the credibility of its authors. Traceability is key to this credibility, and if that means authors must stand or fall on what they write. That may mean authors lose a right of privacy but so be it.