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Craigslist to Start Charging for Some Listings
rufey writes "In the coming months, Craigslist will begin charging fees for some of its listings. New York City real estate listings will be the first to get the fees. Starting on March 1st, it will cost $10 to list real estate on Craigslist for New York City. The fees may not be limited to New York real estate however. Job postings may see fees imposed for various parts of the country. The fees have been proposed as a way to combat the problem of people posting the same thing several times a day to keep their listing near the top of the list."
sounds like a good idea, it'll make the site better and reduce dupes etc. $10 is such a small amount that it won't put off anyone who wants to use it seriously but will make some dupers reconsider posting the same thing loads... although it might be so small that you could still pay $40 and think it was a good deal for 4 listings... I guess it depends on how much money you think you might make.
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
make sure you do not omit the "s" in craigslist.
otherwise it takes you to a page with porn ads.
Craigslist has been charging for some things, specifically full time job postings in certain areas, for the past couple of years. I think it is a good thing to keep down the number of spam messages that are being posted in certain sections (Specifically jobs and real estate).
The summary links to a Washington Post article with no links in it.
Craigslist can be found at www.craigslist.org.
See? That wasn't so hard.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
I love craigslist.
But wouldn't it be effective if people could flag the types of posts that these measures are trying to curb?
"Flag this message 'dickwad'"
after all, doesn't ebay have a stake in Craigslist?
Anonymous ads without moderation just don't work any more.
The biggest problem with craigslist, they dont allow extended searchs for more than 1 area. While they have always bitched about global searchs would run the "small town" feeling, its global NOW.. Jobs in point, would be nice if you could search nation wide, people move for work now, get with the times.
While making some people pay will get rid of multiple posts, thats annoying on high traffic sites.
I just wish craigslist would actually ask what people want, without the freaking attitude...
How can you spell "Craigslist" wrong three times in an article summary...about Craigslist????
ScuttleMonkey: Are you saying I can dodge spell checks?
* *B-B: No ScuttleMonkey. I'm saying when the time comes, you won't have to.
May the Maths Be with you!
Can we charge Slashdot editors to post stories... It might have the same benefitial effects !
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
Tim Redmond of the San Francisco Bay Guardian has an interesting perspective on Craigslist:
He calls Craigslist the Walmart of classified ads because it siphons money out of the local economy since Craigslist doesn't employ people locally in the markets in which it operates.
It also seems that one of the reasons Craigslist became the definitive source for online classifieds is because it's FREE for everything except job postings, and job postings is an area where they are not the definitive source. Their product is not incredibly complex. If/when they start to charge, it would be a relatively easy task for someone to build a better free alternative.Perhaps one solution would be to allow one post per category per day. Anything extra would cost you.
There are so many scams and spam postings on craigslist now that I turn to my network of friends and an internal posting board at my work before bothering to use it.
Don't get me wrong, I love craigslist and used it back when it was just a list-serv. But success has its price and that price is a ton of clutter.
If craigslist had decent search capabilities that would help mitigate the problem but as it is, it's very frustrating. You can't search for anything in multiple neighborhoods in the same city, let alone search for something in multiple cities. Searching for housing is tedious since you can't filter it by number of bedrooms, bathrooms, whether it has off-street parking, etc.
I have found some utilities online that will do craigslist filtering but they can't help but miss a bunch of postings since they're just parsing a bunch of text. There is nothing that they can key off of in order to filter accurately.
I'll still use craigslist when I need to, of course, but I also use other things as well and don't solely rely on it.
- tokengeekgrrl
craig, AK Population (1990): 1260 (504 housing units)
craig, CO Population (1990): 8091 (3559 housing units)
craig, IA Population (1990): 116 (47 housing units)
craig, MO Population (1990): 346 (166 housing units)
craig, NE Population (1990): 228 (116 housing units)
(from dictionary.reference.com)
Anyway, so they'll charge. But $10 won't stop annoying/deceptive ads and if they go much higher, they'd better offer something for it, like better searching and better policing. How much does Ebay spend to fight fraud?
And eventually, CraigsList will be just another brand site and we'll find a new cheapo service to use for free.
Like the text ads and adsense on Google I would assume this was Craig's plan all along. Newspaper classifieds are going the way of the horse and buggy anyway. As soon as the routing, billing and favored content issues are sorted out we'll start to see the end of free email. A penny a message eliminates spam but doesn't slow me down.
OT somewhat: To me, the internet has so far destroyed more 'wealth' than it created. What was once the music business is losing the 'business' part (probably going to improve the music). Corporations that were worth $ because of song ownership / publishing catalogs are now involved in a market driven con game to claim they're still worth anything at all. Magazines that used to employ writers, designers, editors, mail room clerks are watching their industry go away, and some covering their own demise. The writers end up blogging where Googles current ad-revenue illusion can make them a couple of $$ a day. When the fraudulent aspect of click throughs becomes more evident, that revenue stream will ride off into the sunset.
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
Agents posting Services (and not listing actual Real Estate, there is a separate section for Services)
Spam advertising cheap Housing, but its really Affiliate links to endless Popup Windows of ads.
"Browse the MLS Free!" postings which you have to sign up for, but then they sell your name to Real Estate Agents "looking for leads" (there is a guy in my wife's office who pays for these.....)
Ads for Florida Investments
Ads for Vegas Investments
I place ONE ad a week for my wife's Real Estate Listings there and I would be happy to pay if people did not have to wade through all the garbage just to get to her listing.
The Flag System does not work for Real Estate, Nothing I have EVER flagged has been removed. NOTHING.
And I am ONLY flagging the really spammy crap, not the actual listings.
My time is worth way more than the $10 they will charge.
I like microcars
is compelling: Every single person I've talked to about selling stuff says that they'll get 10 replies to an ad, and not a single person will actually show up. But the last two things that I sold on CL I only had to deal with one flake, the second guy came through and on time, as promised. The bad part is the people that flake out don't even call to say they are not coming. It is best to get a cell # or make them call 1 hour before the set time and place, and reconfirm. It is just good practice anyway. Matter of fact I sold a pair of huge speakers just last night to the second respondant to my ad. He got a good deal, and I got some Jacksons and more room in my apartment. It is good that they are doing something about the New York RE section, it is the worst in the entire world. Between the people that will sell you (ficticious) lists of landlords with no fee apartments to the fake (too good to be true) listings that are real estate agents trying to loop you in to their agency, the section is a far shot from what it used to be. It used to be the only place to find decent no-fee apartments in NYC. unfortunately the real estate industry has corrupted CL long ago just as they did the village voice before that. Thank god they are doing something about it. It is just to easy for the snakes to operate there right now. Buyer beware, as usual.
music lover since 1969
Craigslist is a bitter pill for newspapers - most metro dailies make a third of their advertising revenue from classifieds. McKinsey (insert genuflect here) has a new analysis piece on how papers can fight back. Relevant reading for anyone who follows the industry.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
I find your two statements interesting together.
1. craigslist has wiped out much of the traditional classified ads industry
2. If craigslist starts charging, someone will take their place
It seems to me that 1 plus 2 equals that the traditional classified industry is dead, not because of craigslist specifically, but because the technology that made it possible.
in my experience here in boston, realtors who are aware of craigslist will post properties on there and use that as a way to direct clients who like apartment X that they saw on craingslist, when in fact that property (at least here in the insane boston housing market) is probably already gone. one realtor seemed to be getting the vast majority of his clients through craigslist postings that had very little to do with the apartments he was going to show the clients.
Text of PBS KCET Tavis Smiley Interview with Craig Newmark:
Tavis: Up next on this program, the creator of Craig's List, Craig Newmark. Stay with us.
Tavis: Ten years ago, Craig Newmark started a small Website designed to help his friends and colleagues share information about things like jobs and apartments and events. He just happened to call the site Craig's List. Today, as you well know, (laugh) Craig's List is in 34 countries around the globe, used by some 10 million users a month. Craig Newmark, nice to have you on the program.
Craig Newmark: Hey, it's my pleasure.
Tavis: It's a pleasure to meet you. So, I'm sure you've been asked this a thousand times, but not by me. So you could not have had any idea, when you came up with this idea for your friends and coworkers, that Craig's List would be, like, all the rage.
Newmark: You're giving the wrong guy credit. I had one simple idea about telling friends about arts and technology events. People in the community suggested everything else to us, and that's our theme. We're really run by the people who use the site. We just run the infrastructure, and help out with problems.
Tavis: Tell me, you're very modest and I respect that, but tell me how the idea started, though. So you're in your apartment one day, or?
Newmark: (laugh) Well, in '94, I was at Charles Schwab, the discount brokerage? And I was evangelizing the Net there, you know, to use in the business. I saw a lot of people helping each other out, I thought I should do some of that. So in early '95, I started emailing a few friends.
Tavis: And?
Newmark: They suggested more stuff. I did it. They suggested more. When they told me I had to give it a name, they said hey, we already call it Craig's List. And they were right. And that's been pretty good, since when things go wrong, which is not often, but when they go wrong, I take it personally.
Tavis: I would assume you would, given that your name is on it. I wanted to ask you, so I will, I guess, how it feels to have started something. It's one thing to have eBay, which I wanna get to in a second, 'cause they're now your partner in this project. But eBay or Amazon or Google. But yours bears your name. So is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Newmark: It's a mixed blessing. I'm proud of what's happened. But when there's any kind of problem, not often, 'cause we have a really good culture of trust. But I take it all seriously. That's why I do full time customer service. I was doing it minutes ago; I'll be doing it minutes into the future.
Tavis: So when you say customer service, what does Craig do every day?
Newmark: (laugh) I handle specialized cases. Things like moderating our discussion boards. Lightly, very lightly. And also dealing with apartment brokers in New York. That's my biggest project. Because in that market, they've controlled, you know, apartments and rentals too long, and they haven't been very kind. That's changing.
Tavis: Yeah, speaking of apartment rentals, if I got my numbers right here, $20 million, is it $20 million a month that you guys make just off the apartment listings here?
Newmark: That's one estimate for the whole site over the course of a year. And frankly, first I don't know the answer. And secondly, I don't care. Jim Buckmaster cares. He's the guy who really runs things now. He's my CEO. My focus is just on getting customer service done every day. We've left behind a lot of money on the table, we continue to do so. How much does a guy need to earn?
Tavis: Yeah. Why does money not matter to you? You got something that's big, and yet you seem like you don't care whether you make money or not.
Newmark: Well, it does matter. I need to make an okay living. The people who work for us need to. But after you make a comfortable living, how much more do you need? It's like I make a joke about nerd values, 'cause I'm very much in the rich nerd tradition. And (laugh) you know, we say, like, hey, people pay us for this stuff, like program
People bitch about craigslist, but in truth it's an awesome display of market-clearing power. In the last two months, I have:
Sold my car on Craigslist, for more than car dealers offered, in cash, in under 4 hours.
Sold a Playstation 2 in under a day.
Sold all the major parts of a broken iBook, including the broken logic board, for more than the total offered by a computer salvage company.
Bought a 6-year-old laptop computer with the exact specifications I wanted, in under two days, for less than the median selling price of the same item on eBay (and of course, no shipping).
I will admit that I get frustrated with the people who call and say they are going to buy the item but then don't, and with the kids who want to buy your Playstation, but don't have any money or transportation and don't even know how to ride the bus, and with the African bank scams that automatically reply to every single listing. But in general it's a fantastic and free method for the buying and selling of anything.
He calls Craigslist the Walmart of classified ads because it siphons money out of the local economy since Craigslist doesn't employ people locally in the markets in which it operates.
Why should they?
If you can't compete, too bad. The advertisers are entitled to choose a vendor, and if the Guardian isn't a good deal, they lose. If they'd been a bit smarter about offering their ads on the net sooner than their competitors, they might not be going down the tubes today.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
It's the brokers who ruined it for everyone and it is such a good thing that craigslist finally implemented this fee. You can avoid the brokers in other boroughs, even Brooklyn most of the time, but the way it works in Manhattan is that you HAVE to go through a broker to find a place and you always end up paying them a hefty fee (usually at least a month's rent). I had a friend who was hired part time to work for a broker in the summer (via a job posting on craigslist) and her job was to simply create listings on craigslist every day for apartments. All of these apartments were listed on the broker's company website - she would log on to the website and copy the pictures and text directly over to a craigslist ad, sometimes cleaning up the copy a bit but often just posting it as-is. She was paid $100 a week to post 20 ads a day and theoretically would get 10% of the broker fee (the broker would get let's say $3500 and she would get $300) if anyone rented one of the apartments that she listed online, which turned out to be not very often. (ie: never).
After a while she realized that she was posting many of the same apartments multiple times and the broker didn't even care what apartment people called about or what the actual ads said, as long as 20 ads were posted with his contact information on it every day. The people who called about an ad would pretty much never see that actual apartment - the broker would ask what you wanted to pay and then proceed to show you whatever apartments were available that week that were $200-$500 over your price range. After a month or so, my friend quit because the broker was always late to pay the measly $100 per week and the whole operation seemed shady. There were several other people who worked for the same broker just posting ads, so this one broker probably had 100 ads posted per day on craigslist just for him. This guy worked at a company with around 20 other brokers, who probably all had their own minions doing the same thing. Just imagine multiple companies doing the same thing with all their brokers and you realize how useless it is to look for an apartment on craigslist in Manhattan.
I personally have used craigslist to find some great apartments in cities like San Francisco, but in Manhattan it is primarily a form of free advertising that the brokers exploit. The system here is already crappy enough with the brokers, but even more so as long as they are free to render craigslist into a useless spam hole.
It's amazing how involved (and accessible) Craig is!
Charge for your mistakes.
The problem with Craigslist, as everyone who posts there knows, is that your post rolls off the front page in a matter of a few hours, but you are supposed to only post once every seven days (not that anyone does this - everyone posts at least daily and many post multiple times a day.) You're also only supposed to post in your immediate neighborhood. Right - like the people within five or ten blocks of you are going to be enough to support your business - especially in a town like San Francisco where a "neighborhood" is barely ten blocks, if that.
As everyone knows, very few people look beyond the first page or two of Google search results, and very few people look beyond the first page or two of Craigslist search results.
The only calls I've ever gotten from my ads - and that has been a grand total of TWO - were within an hour of being posted while they were still on the first page. The rest of the time, my ads are completely worthless. This is the dirty little secret of Craigslist.
So now they intend to charge for the dubious privilege of getting somebody to read your ad. Fat chance. This will be the end of Craigslist. Numerous people offering tech support services will no longer advertise simply because the return on the ad investment will be too small to justify paying for the ad. It's that simple. In the end, of the couple hundred tech support people advertising on Craigslist now, maybe a couple dozen will remain.
Then the service ads page will be only one page and maybe it will work. Apparently the only way to generate any business is to be the only company able to afford to run an ad...
Somehow I don't think this is what Craigslist was intended to be.
It's also interesting that I read today in one of the SF weekly papers a criticism that Craig, despite his rhetoric about "building communities", basically has done nothing to do that in the over 100 cities his operation is in. Instead, Craigslist has basically wiped out the classified ad sections of newspapers in every community it operates in. While this is not a bad thing per se, the end result, as the paper points out, is that none of the revenue remains in the community. When asked about this, Craig's only response was "I only go where people want me."
Craigslist has now made up my mind for me. It's worthless advertising there for the PC tech support business at least. Besides the saturation advertising of the two or three hundred people doing this work in the city, and the multiple posts, now they want to charge.
Forget it. I'll do it the hard way - promote my Web site and resort to direct mail.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Taco says you now owe him $125.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!