Games That Stick It To The Man

News.com has a piece looking at subversive games with social commentary. The article discusses some titles that hit back against some of the frustrating trends in the industry today. Anti-advergames, specifically one striking out at McDonalds, are mentioned. From the article: "'Behind every sandwich, there is a complex process you must learn to manage,' Molleindustria said in a statement. 'From the creation of pastures to the slaughter, from the restaurant management to the branding. You'll discover all the dirty little secrets that made (McDonald's) one of the biggest companies (in) the world.' Neither McDonalds nor Kinko's responded to multiple requests for comment" More commentary from Guardian Gamesblog on the subject.

Comments

Obviously this won't work

[Anonymous Coward]

We all know that gamers have no problem distinguishing between games and reality, and that their ethics and behavior are not at all changed by, for example, games of violence and criminal activity. Therefore, this enterprise is doomed to failure.

I have a game idea...

[IAAP]

Based on this FTFA: One is Gonzalo Frasca's "September 12," in which players shoot missiles at terrorists in a small village. The fun quickly turns political, however, as villagers mourning friends and relatives accidentally killed by the missiles morph into terrorists themselves. The message, clearly, is to think about consequences.

The premise is this, some radical elements of a religion, really pisssed off over cartoons that were published on the other side of the world, riot and kill people in protest for depicting their religion as being violent, intollerant of free expression and hateful. People seeing these folks reacting like this (violence, murder, etc...) now see this particular religion as being: violent, murderous, and everything that the protestors say they're not. So what happens? People become really afraid of this religion because their actions prove the cartoons are correct. And when people become afraid , they start to do some radical things. Here's were I think I'll have this game go: there's another Holocost for this particular religion except:

It's done to some other religion besides th Jews.

It's done by multiple states - i.e. all over the world ( war on terror ya, know)

This time, no one stops it because the victims (of the holocost) refuse to live in this world with anyone who doesn't beleive the way they do.

Re:I have a game idea...

[SeekerDarksteel]

Art depecting things that would be considered highly offensive is nothing new. Crosses in jars of urine, collages of the Virgin Mary made up of porno images, etc. But I don't see Christians rioting in the street, setting things on fire, and calling for people to die over these things, do you?

They tried peaceful means first. Violence only came later.

"We tried to do things peacefully, but they FORCED us to set fire to their embassies and attack law enforcement officers! It's not OUR fault! Honest!"

Please.... No matter how offensive something might be, no matter what they may have tried, nothing gives someone the right to resort to violence because they dislike what someone else said.

Re:I have a game idea...

[IAAP]

Before violence erupted there were calls for boycotts (perfectly reasonable) to which the EU responded by threatening them if they dared to boycott a member state.

No excuse. And I've never seen anyting about boycots. Again, no excuse for the violence

They tried peaceful means first. Violence only came later.

Still, no excuse.

Second, these images of Muhammad are as offensive to muslims as it would be to christians to depict the Virgin Mary getting fucked by a pig with the caption "Technically, she's still a virgin."

There would be outrage, but there wouldn't be any of the violence and murder that is occuring now. Any religion that will go nuts over a cartoon but not the murder (by them) of innocent people (not of their religion or even their version of their "faith") is a pathetic excuse for anyone that calls themsleves "children of God". Think of all the times Sunnis, Shiites, etc.. are all exterminating each other because they don't beleive the "right" way.

Again, there's no excuse for acting like animals.

Re:I have a game idea...

[amliebsch]

They tried peaceful means first. Violence only came later.

The means are irrelevant, except that they have become so grossly disproportionate. Their very goal - the suppression of speech they find disagreeable - is illegitimate in liberal societies.

Second, these images of Muhammad are as offensive to muslims as it would be to christians to depict the Virgin Mary getting fucked by a pig with the caption "Technically, she's still a virgin."

Yet, curiously, when confronted with such works as the piss Christ and the elephant dung Virgin Mary, Christians were told to suck it up and accept that as the price of living in a pluralistic society. And guess what? They did.

Re:I have a game idea...

[dc29A]

Second, these images of Muhammad are as offensive to muslims as it would be to christians to depict the Virgin Mary getting fucked by a pig with the caption "Technically, she's still a virgin."

Do you watch South Park? Do we have christians around the world up in arms, threatening to boycot, kidnap and kill every day despite christianity being ridiculed completely on South Park?

For starters, if you watch South Park: Most of the catholic church is made up by child abusers. Jesus has a tv show, he occasionally does a boxing match with Satan. Satan is gay, but in reality not evil at all. Hell is far more nicer place than heaven. God is one ugly animal who sometimes uses vulgar language. Only mormons can get into heaven. The head of the catholic church is a giant spider queen. Ugh ... I am sure there are other things South Park ridicules from the church. Then there was the bloody mary or whatever episode fiasco and who knows what else. Saddam is in heaven building WMDs while God is way too incompetent to realize it. I could go on for ages!

Not to mention you got many Black Metal bands pretty much singing about Mary being a whore, Jesus being a moron and who knows what else. Pick up some Cradle of Filth, Deicide or Gorgoroth!

I won't even get into the "lighter" side of church ridicule from the Simpsons and other comedy shows. However, we don't have christians all around the world calling for boycot and revenge and murder over this do we? I am sure some/many christians are offended by those cartoons, bands, whatnot, but hey, they are smart enough to realize it's a free society with free speech. They enjoy freedom of religion, while we enjoy free speech! Fair deal no?

IMO, the whole muslim world is WAYYYYY too sensitive about this issue. I find it ironic when they insult the jewish and christian religions in their cartoons it's all good, but when someone else does something similar it's the end of the world!

(burn karma burn)
The muslim world needs to police itself before trying to comment/police the non muslim world.
(/burn carma burn)

Re:I have a game idea...

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

IMO, the whole muslim world is WAYYYYY too sensitive about this issue. I find it ironic when they insult the jewish and christian religions in their cartoons it's all good, but when someone else does something similar it's the end of the world!

First, it is not "the muslim world" it is particular individuals. Second, christians are not currently the subject of what must seem to them (and many objective observers) as a crusade where their countries are invaded by foreigners from another continent with another religion who kill them, mock their religion, sell off all their resources and land, and print pictures of their men being raped. Second, they are being purposely manipulated into this action by people with a political interest in things, as the three most offensive cartoons (like the one showing a dog fucking mohammed) were never printed in any newspaper that anyone can find and seem to have been made or disseminated by european muslims to aggravate the situation.

If you honestly think a bunch of scared and angry hicks from texas would not attack a foreign embassy in response to published cartoons of jesus having intercourse with a pig, if they felt threatened and thought it likely they would be conquered by invading muslims in the near future then you don't understand people in general (and probably have never watched the 700 club).

Re:I have a game idea...

[chill]

There is a significant difference between a few people getting a little "explosive" and:

1. Mass rioting for days in over a dozen countries by thousands of people;
2. The formal protests of half-a-dozen Governments;
3. The destruction on several embassies and consular buildings;
4. The suspension of diplomatic relations or closing of embassies by a couple countries;
5. Invasion of EU-run buildings by masked, armed mobs demanding apologies.

The reaction of the Moslem world is way, way over the top and utterly shameful. The rest of the world seems to have advanced beyond the 12th century, yet there still seem to be barbarians to be found.

  -Charles

Re:I have a game idea...

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Art depecting things that would be considered highly offensive is nothing new. Crosses in jars of urine, collages of the Virgin Mary made up of porno images, etc. But I don't see Christians rioting in the street, setting things on fire, and calling for people to die over these things, do you?

I certainly have heard the last one. Maybe you haven't watched enough televangelists. There are plenty of violent christians who would gladly beat an artist to death for making such a thing. Maybe that is why they are always shown in large art shows in trendy, civilized places like New York, rather than in small town Texas. Hell, over the course of history christians have killed and tortured at least as many people in the name of their religion as muslims have.

The situation for christians in the US, however, is not even close to the same. These are people who are living in fear of the new christian crusades. They have relatives who were bombed and cousins who were shot in the head. They have recently seen photos of the invading christians raping their people and heard stories of much, much worse. They are understandable frightened and angry and if you don't expect some of them to act on that anger then you don't understand people at all.

Please.... No matter how offensive something might be, no matter what they may have tried, nothing gives someone the right to resort to violence because they dislike what someone else said.

With this I agree. These people are acting out of hatred and anger and fear and while I understand it, I don't condone it.

Re:I have a game idea...

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Once again, religion is shown to be what it is - a system of control that leads to evil deeds.

What an interesting statement. Religious, moral, and ethical beliefs are all subjective; as is the entire concept of evil. Religion did not cause this violence, people acting specifically to incite anger by attacking and disrespecting the beliefs of others did, and it was wholly intentional. The same type of behavior could be triggered by nationalist, philosophical, or many other kinds of belief. Anger, as I said, is the instinctual response to remove a threat by destroying it. They were attacked and they responded. It would be the same as if under very stressful conditions, where mathematics were being outlawed and mathematicians burned if someone insisted on yelling in your face "Pi is exactly three, bitch." Maybe you would react calmly, but maybe, under extreme stress and fear you would react violently. We all have beliefs and breaking points.

What I AM saying is that the general, public perception of all Muslims is only harmed when they find out about things like this.

And I'm saying that public perception, that prejudice of judging muslims only as a group is just as wrong as the violence some particular muslims committed.

...they find sacreligious because of their stupid ignorant ridiculous unsubstantiated religion.

Ahh yes, lets ridicule the beliefs and religions of others. Obviously then, you have all the answers. Tell me then, what is the nature of reality and thought and the fundamental basis for ethics. Now tell me in simple terms how should all communities co-exist and resolve disputes? There is plenty of real, useful reasoning in islam, just as there is in christianity and buddhism. To claim that a religion is "wrong" and its adherents "stupid" is the pinnacle of hubris.

Furthermore, attacking an embassy is itself a statement that you are not interested in rational negotiation

I think we previously established that the individuals in question were reacting emotionally, rather than with reason.

Don't make assumptions about what I think. You want to know what I think? How's about fucking ASKING me? Don't tell me. I don't respond well to that kind of bullshit.

Fine, but you were responding to what I had written by attacking the concept of understanding the perspectives of others. You're the one who made both moral judgments and assertions that my comments explaining the perspective of others was "the reason we have so much violence." If you do not want to be considered intolerant, show tolerance. If you do not want be seen as unsympathetic to the suffering of others show empathy. All your remarks were attacks on understanding and I for one reject such holier than thou crap. If you can't put yourself in the shoes of another and understand their reasoning and perspective you have business judging their actions, or condemning them.

but you are the man, sir

[stoolpigeon]

n/t

A Game that Really Sticks it to the Man

[WillAffleckUW]

would be a certain Japanese game where you roll over The Man - and pigs, cows, cars, buildings, towers, airplanes - to get enough to put Stars in the sky for your father the King of the Universe.

Katari Damashi is the name, I think. There's two other sequels to it.

OT

[TubeSteak]

Sorry to reply twice, but I just skimmed a blog article that helps put the violence and outrage in context

http://www.civitas.org.uk/blog/archives/2006/02/if _theres_hell_below_is_this_where_we_shall_all_be_s pending_xmas_.html

Basically, the writer contends that a bunch of Danish Imams took these cartoons (plus others) on a 'tour' of the Middle East to whip up some fury.

Now the really interesting part is when this blogger explains why they did this. He thinks it is because Denmark is going to become chair of the UN Security Council... and guess who is getting referred to the Security Council?

Iran.

Read his conclusions, he makes an interesting argument.

Want to really hurt "the man"?

[jgardn]

There is an inferiority complex among the group who refers to others as "the man". They assume that "the man" is pulling strings behind the scenes and that there is no way that they could ever hope to beat "the man" except through violence or hatred campaigns.

Consider this. Just for a moment, clear your mind of all the hatred and pent up rage within your soul. Then let's think logically for a moment. Let's assume that votes really count, that politicians really do have to get elected, and that the government is really ultimately run by the politicians, when push comes to shove. Who is "the man" that is oppressing the people? It is the government. But the government is made up of politicians, or people accountable to politicians. And the politicians are elected by the people. So "the man" is really "the people". People are abusing themselves.

Let's look at it another way--"the man" being corporate suits. Where do they get their power? From their money. Where do they get their money? From the people. If the people stopped eating at McDonalds or buying Nike shoes, these companies really do go out of business. And the corporations really are held accountable to the politicians. When they really screw up they get thrown in jail for real, that is, when the politicians want them in jail. And who elects the politicians?

In both cases, the power ultimately rests with the people. There is no need to fight "the man" except by participating in politics and participating in business. In fact, you yourself can become "the man" if you figure out how to get elected or how to make a billions dollars a year. "The man" is a position that is held at the whim of the people. If they don't like you, you don't get elected. If they don't like your products, you don't get your money.

When you fight against "the man" you are really fighting against the people in this country. Keep that in mind.