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Making A Living In Second Life

Wired has an article looking at folks who have dropped out of the whole 'meatspace moneymaking' thing, and are now making their living in Second Life. From the article: "Within a month, Grinnell was making more in Second Life than in her real-world job as a dispatcher. And after three months she realized she could quit her day job altogether. Now Second Life is her primary source of income, and Grinnell, whose avatar answers to the name Janie Marlowe, claims she earns more than four times her previous salary. Grinnell isn't alone. Artists and designers, landowners and currency speculators, are turning the virtual environment of Second Life into a real-world profit center." Interesting, and with a respectability lacking in gold farming.

29 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. What unregulated businesses? by Mrs.+Grundy · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wonder how long it will be before real-life politicians start setting up their own virtual offices in Second Life so they can tax the in-game profits of Janie Marlowe or try to regulate her online business.

    1. Re:What unregulated businesses? by subshop · · Score: 3, Informative

      This should still be reported as income, this is not anything new.

    2. Re:What unregulated businesses? by Havenwar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Life doesn't come with guarantees... not the first, nor the second.

      A friend of mine started a shop. No, a real shop. It cost a crapload of cash, and in the end due to a road that changed direction and changed the entire flow of people through the area (from busy to deserted) his investment crashed, and he lost all his invested cash, because...

      When you invest, your money is rarely insured at all. This is just as true in the real world. If you want your money to be insured, then keep them in the bank... and hope the insurance company don't go bankrupt or decide to change the policy or something.

      If you are afraid for your earnings, be clever and don't accumulate to much loose change in game. A million is definatly too much, unless you are planning on some major purchases. Do as most people do in real life - withdraw your earnings on a regular base, and put it in a bank.

      If you are not interested in those risks... then this game is not for you. And neither is any real life investement or business start-up.

    3. Re:What unregulated businesses? by nelsonal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Same thing with stocks, bonds, houses, foreign currency, and most of the stuff we invest in daily. Yet they are the subject of trillions of dollars in investments every year. That these happen to reside on a server in California makes little difference to their worth or value.

      Oh and in another great depression like senario do you really think the FDIC is going to bail out all the banks that could fail?

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  2. Sustainable? by oberondarksoul · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm worried that people like this could well be in for a nasty surprise in the next few years. While they may well be making several times their previous salaries in MMORPGs, what happens if the game is simply closed by its manufacturers, or something better comes along that players flock to? If they can't then map their skills from one game to another, they're suddenly out of luck and out of a job - how sustainable is this sort of job? I certainly wouldn't quit my day job simply out of the security it would afford me - if the game ends tomorrow, at least I still have a paycheque.

    --
    And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
    1. Re:Sustainable? by Zatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How is that different than taking a job with any new company? The company could just close down and then you'd be out of work.

      Heck, it happens to workers in old companies too (Enron, Worldcom, GM, Ford).

      Besides, if she's making 4 times her previous salary it won't take long to be able to afford to have a few years with no income at the same standard of living if she wanted. :)

    2. Re:Sustainable? by slackmaster2000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Until she has to go back out into the real world with this at the top of her resume:

      2006 - 2008, Played Video Games

    3. Re:Sustainable? by Jesrad · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, let me detail my own situation then: I'm an IT engineer in a country where unemployment is in the double digits. In my specific age and education class it's over 25%. I only ever get few-month-long missions for ever-varying employers. I can be laid off in a single day with no compensation, and I know a pay rise won't be happening in years. Social care ensures I get a revenue in between, but only for a few months.

      And aside from that, I make about half as much as my salary in Second Life using my programmation and innovation skills. I really consider this additional revenue to be my insurance against misery, should I not manage to get a new job after the current one, mainly because I can work at it from most places in the world, anytime, for almost as long as I want or can afford. That's some significant security in my opinion.

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    4. Re:Sustainable? by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not how you write a resume! Its...

      2006-2008, Entrepreneurship in virtual atypical marketing, exchanges, and acquisitions.

      --
      Demented But Determined.
    5. Re:Sustainable? by Peganthyrus · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can make stuff in SL anywhere that the land owner hasn't set 'no building'. You can play with scripts anywhere that hasn't been set 'no scripts'.

      This accounts for something like, oh, 80% of the world, I'd guess.

      There are specific sandbox areas; some are small chunks of heavily-loaded sims*, some are entire sims given over to the task. Sandboxes are build-enabled, usually script-enabled, and have very lenient auto-sweep times, so you can just plop yourself down and start Making Stuff.

      Popular sandboxes are an attraction in and of themselves; you'll see lots of builders who don't bother shelling out to own land working on their projects. People whose projects involve scripting will often hand out beta versions of their toys, just for testing, or just to watch someone have fun with their work.

      You need to have land to put a vending machine for your stuff. But you can rent space in a mall, or perhaps a friend who has land would like to offer a little space for a vendor, or perhaps you might join a group to share some land. There's a lot of options. I make my own avatars, and I've gotten several offers of vendor space, including one in some very prime space in one of the oldest sims in the game, near the newbie area!

      If you want to run a club or be a land baron, yeah, that requires money for paying for land. But you can do a lot of stuff with potential financial return in SL without ever paying for more than the initial account, and that's free nowadays.

      *a 'sim' in SL is the fundamental division; each one is handled by a different server. So a very populated sim is on a pretty overloaded computer.

      --
      egypt urnash minimal art.
    6. Re:Sustainable? by Tyger · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are 3 differences between the premium account that you can't do or are limited with a free account.

      1. Land ownership. Free accounts can't own land. But anybody can rent land if they have the money for it. So if you figure out a way to make enough money, you can rent with a free account.
      2. Weekly stipend is minute for free accounts. For the basic premium account, it comes out to about a month's fees.
      3. L$ to US$ exchange is limited for free (And even low level premium) accounts. But you can get around this by going to websites like slexchange.

      None of that prevents you from making and selling items. Or really prevents you from doing anything inside SL.

  3. With the Linux client, even more so. by strredwolf · · Score: 4, Informative

    Second Life released an Linux native alpha client. Some hard rough edges but very usable.

    --

    --
    # Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
    $Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
  4. Some people make more money than others... by __aajqwr7439 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Especially in the world's oldest profession.

    DN

    1. Re:Some people make more money than others... by knight37 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Warning - The link in the parent is totally NSFW.

      --
      Knight37 - Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer
    2. Re:Some people make more money than others... by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Funny

      And apparently you're the world's newest comer to the world's oldest profession.

      No pun intended.

  5. Making Money from Furries by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can make a lot of money from furries. Take an established section of the web market, add the word "fur" to it, and sell it at an inflated price and you're into money.

    Ask http://www.furcadia.com/ or http://www.furbid.ws/

    1. Re:Making Money from Furries by Caspian · · Score: 2, Funny

      Tell me about it. I made most of my fortune in the Cadia market, and the rest in the Bid market. I'm pondering branching out into the Pedia market as well.
      --
      With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
  6. The Metaverse is finally here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It really takes a while after starting Second Life before you realize the true, and staggering, implications.

    The metaverse is finally here!

    And it has a really, really, really low framerate!

    And there really isn't anything to do there except stand around in gaudy discos and watch your avatar run through a dance animation!

    Still, isn't it neat?

  7. Free Markets = Instant Wealth by jgardn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is just an example of how free markets create wealth.

    What value did Second Life have before people moved in and started exercising their rights to engage in unrestricted trade? Absolutely nothing, except a bunch of promise.

    But when people began exchanging goods and services without restriction, they begin to build something beautiful.

    Imagine for a moment that the owners of Second Life tried something other than free market economics. What if they decided they would dictate the direction of growth? Or what if they controlled the money supply and gave it only to people they liked? Or what if they banned certain transactions? What if Second Life had a board of very smart and highly educated economists trying to create the ideal economy? What if they had onerous taxes and regulations?

    If you think that anything but free markets work, you haven't had much experience in the real world.

    I would hope that we can take some of the principles that makes Second Life so wonderful (IE, free trade) and bring it into our real world so that we can create even more wealth.

    --
    The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
    1. Re:Free Markets = Instant Wealth by bishop32x · · Score: 2, Informative
      Second life isn't "creating" wealth, it's just a new form of agragation. Second Life is gaining value because people are putting their money into it. It has nothing to do with free markets.

      Opening up a new market does not create wealth, it redistributes it. For every content person making money off of second life there are probably two or three people who are spending a significant portion of their income there. Thats where the wealth is coming from, not the invisible anus of the market.

    2. Re:Free Markets = Instant Wealth by ThosLives · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Ah, you are completely correct there. I wish more people understood the difference between 'wealth' and 'value', and that services such as markets do not create wealth but simply provide a valuable service.

      I almost think that 'wealth' is like economic energy: just as energy is "the ability to do work", 'wealth' provides the means to do (economic) work - that is, provide services. Here's an odd example: farming is a service that produces food - wealth - that can be used to perform more farming (by keeping people alive).

      Markets are a service in that they distribute wealth, but they do not create it. Markets have value, though, in that people are willing to trade wealth for the presence of the market.

      Ah, that seems a little like it could use some further development, but I think it's sufficient for now.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
  8. It's all BS by presearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Those making money are nothing but sheep farmers, harvesting from n00bs that wanna play with their paper dolls simulating getting laid.
    Despite the claims, it's a closed system with a very limited future, a collapsing eternal economy, and more bugs than a bait shop.
    The claim of "A user created community" is Linden/Rosedale just playing everyone for suckers, missing it's potential and merely focusing on profit,
    while wrapping themselves in a blanket of lazy, scamming altruism. There's a few interesting builds, but for the most part, it's more BigLots than Metaverse.
    The quality of the graphics looks like a game from 5 years ago, and they haven't improved on the look in well over a year, other than adding a water shader.

    Can't wait for someone to do it right.

    1. Re:It's all BS by presearch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Troll? I'm not trolling,
      I've been in-world for over a year, and this is my honest opinion.

      That's the most amazing thing about Second Life; its delusional players. Heaven forbid anyone critique -anything-.
      The Lindens generate a Reality Distortion Field that puts Steve Jobs to shame.

    2. Re:It's all BS by vertinox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Those making money are nothing but sheep farmers, harvesting from n00bs that wanna play with their paper dolls simulating getting laid.

      And this is any different from real life?

      I mean do you really need buy her those diamond rings, fancy shoes, and prance around in that new sports car just for the hell of it?

      Someone will always take advantage of the human desire to get laid. Even if it is just virtual.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  9. Re:Resume Entry by couch_potato · · Score: 5, Funny

    And working the drivethru at McDonalds is "sales and marketing for a Fortune 500 company." Sounds a lot better, and isn't even a lie!

  10. Sounds like Perky Pat to me by noky · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This all reminds me of the Philip K. Dick story "The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch". Space colonists would play "Perky Pat", basically inhabiting dolls in a doll world with the help of a drug. They'd spend all their time and resources creating elaborate "layouts" (ie: doll setups) and would lose themselves in this alternate reality. The company Perky Pat Layouts would sell all this paraphernalia to the colonists and make a ton of money.

    Just another example of Dick being ahead of his time. What a crazy world we live in.

  11. Sure, in a world with only wants and no needs by Valdrax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is just an example of how free markets create wealth.

    No. This is an example of a free market redistributing wealth earned in another external economy under completely different rules. All it is doing is rewarding someone for the fruits of their labors with the money others have earned elsewhere under different rules. All this is is someone earning a living under our existing non-free market system just like a flea market or yard sale.

    It's a fine example of how well a free market economy works when no one has essential needs and every purchase is a luxury purchase. SL characters don't die of starvation if they can't earn money. They don't die of exposure without the ability to afford housing. They don't need medical care. They don't grow old and infirm and require retirement. Not only would you never have to kill to survive, you couldn't kill for money even if you wanted to. Violent crime is impossible. You can't cause serious harm to people deliberately or even indifferently by way of pollution, foreclosure, or anything else.

    In other words, SL is nothing like reality. It is a world without disease, aging, or any other infirmity, non-consensual violence, and starvation or deprivation of any other sort. Well sure it works as a free market economy! All the hazards of the free market and human nature don't exist there.

    If you think that anything but free markets work, you haven't had much experience in the real world.

    If you think that free markets work, you haven't had much experience with reality. People who think free markets solve everything honestly don't understand the ramifications of the non-exclusive nature of public and common goods nor do they understand the net negative effects of the extreme poverty of others on oneself.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  12. Re:Mac Mini by tkiesel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Be careful about using that plan to get a dedicated Second Life box running. SL is CPU-limited rather than GPU-limited in terms of graphics candy. More memory on the graphics card is a great thing, but if what I've read is correct (which it may not be, of course) the CPU is a big determining factor in the SL experience.

    There are groups of residents petitioning to get the game's transform and lighting functions onto the GPU rather than the CPU.

  13. More on private, club, common, & public goods by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It works better than a room full of stuffy old coots deciding how the economy should work by making decisions on what to do with the fruits of my productivity. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but better than the alternatives.

    Ideally, this is done in a democratic fashion, and the people making these decisions have just as much of a mandate to mitigate the pitfalls of a lawless/free economy as much as they do a lawless/free society with laws against harming others. In my opinion, the government should encourage free markets wherever private goods or club goods are involved unless there a life-need (e.g. healthcare), predatory practices (e.g. credit & investment), or both (e.g. utilities) are frequently present. However, whenever common goods or public goods are involved, government must step in to regulate because the free market can only make things worse.

    For those who wonder what I'm talking about, there are four classical types of goods that economists define based on whether or not you can exclude others from use and whether or not use diminishes the good. They are:

    • Private goods: excludable, users degrade good (e.g. a loaf of bread, a VHS tape)
    • Club goods: excludable, users do not degrade good (e.g. scrambled cable TV, a concert)
    • Common goods: not excludable, users degrade good (e.g. the atmosphere, radio frequencies)
    • Public goods: not excludable, users do not degrade good (e.g. national defense, ideas)

    The definition of degrading a good can vary, but the general idea is that adding or subtracting a single user does not signficantly affect the enjoyment of other users. A concert hall might fill up, but me listening to the music doesn't take away your ability to listen to it. Excludability is more about making sure that people who don't pay for a good can't use it without requiring government coercion. DRM can only exclude goods with government measures to prevent making tools to crack it.

    The problem with common and public goods is in the fact that you can't effectively charge people for them. You can't make people stop polluting without coercive force. If you stop paying your taxes and hole up in a compound in Montana, the US military still protects you. The free market cannot effectively solve problems related to these types of goods. Only government can because the effective management and creation of these goods requires that people be forced to play along even if they don't want to.

    Government can do this in ways that encourages more or less free market-like behavior. For example, emission trading schemes are more free market like than mandated technologies. However, without government force, there would be no market for emission trading because companies would continue to treat things that they get for free as externalities that free market cost pressures prevent them from worrying about. In fact, the free market makes things worse because competition forces actors in the market to cut costs wherever possible. People wouldn't pollute if it wasn't profitable, and a free market only makes things worse by giving incentives to bad behavior.
    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").