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LEGO Tech Still Going Strong

zimage writes to tell us that Andrew Carol has designed and built a working Babbage Difference Engine out of LEGO. From the article: "Before the day of computers and pocket calculators, all mathematics was done by hand. Great effort was expended to compose trigonometric and logarithmic tables for navigation, scientific investigation, and engineering purposes. In the mid-19th century, people began to design machines to automate this error prone process. Many machines of various designs were eventually built. The most famous of these machines is the Babbage Difference Engine. [...] Babbage's design could evaluate 7th order polynomials to 31 digits of accuracy. I set out to build a working Difference Engine using LEGO parts which could compute 2nd or 3rd order polynomials to 3 or 4 digits." In related, but not quite as functional, news DigitalDame2 writes to tell us that PC Magazine has an interview with LEGO "brick-artist" Nathan Sawaya, creator of their commissioned LEGO PC. There are also several pictures of the creation in addition to a contest to win the snap-together sculpture.

35 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. Amazing by bassgoonist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is really great to see a working Babbage computer out of legos, its not as accurate as Babbage's design...but amazing none the less. Too bad Babbage didn't have legos when he was trying to get funding to build his computer! The lego PC mock ups are nice, but nothing compares to a real working mechanical lego computer :-P

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    1. Re:Amazing by jibjibjib · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is very cool. I would be more impressed if someone was able to build a general purpose computer out of Lego, but that would be even more impractical, and possibly require ridiculous amounts of lego.
      Of course, it would be impossible to make a computer that was actually useful out of Lego, but something more like the Analytical Engine than the Difference engine would be cool. I can imagine it now... winding the little Lego handle and watching the Linux kernel messages scroll up the screen...

    2. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sorry to be pedantic, but I think you mean "pedantic".

    3. Re:Amazing by zobier · · Score: 3, Funny
      Sorry to be pendantic but the plural of Lego is also 'Lego' and not 'Legos'*.
      Sorry to be pedantic, but I think you mean "pedantic".
      Gold. Where are the mod points when you need them?
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    4. Re:Amazing by JanneM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This ranks up there with certain folk refering to the slang term for Mathematics as 'Math', when it is infact 'Maths'

      Since when is slang supposed to follow rules of grammar and usage?

      If people use "math" as an informal shorthand for "mathematics" then that's the term, any individual with a grammar lexicon reposited in a painful location nonwidthstanding.

      --
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    5. Re:Amazing by BeardsmoreA · · Score: 5, Funny
      Too bad Babbage didn't have legos when he was trying to get funding to build his computer

      No, don't you see! It explains why the original never got completed - he ran out of red 2x4 pieces with the little holes through for cross axles!

    6. Re:Amazing by BeardsmoreA · · Score: 2, Funny
      This ranks up there with certain folk refering to the slang term for Mathematics as 'Math', when it is infact 'Maths'

      I think they're collectively called 'Americans'... There's a few around here most of the time...

    7. Re:Amazing by campbell.mcneill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Good to see this being built and Babbage being appreciated for what he should have achieved. There was a documentary on in the UK about him recently, and it basically stated that if Babbages Difference engine had been built, WW1 would have lasted about 10 minutes due to the accuracy of the gunnery tables that could have been produced.

    8. Re:Amazing by Vellmont · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Too bad Babbage didn't have legos when he was trying to get funding to build his computer!


      Well, the design made out of Legos is far far simpler than Babbages machine, so obviously easier to produce. Difference Engine 2 was supposed to calculate 7th order polynomials to 31 digits of accuracy. The lego contraption can only calculate 2nd or 3rd order polynomials to 3 or 4 digits of accuracy.

      Had Babbage been interested in actually producing these machines rather than designing them and finding out what's possible I'd bet he would have done something like this machine first as a "proof of concept", and then sought more funding. After all, if you can make this thing out of legos I'm sure it'd be fairly trivial to make it out of metal gears. Babbage was a mathematician though and not a business man or engineer so he wasn't really that interested in actually making the thing.

      It makes you wonder what would have happened had someone figured out a business use for Babbages machine, and made some kind of deal with him to design a more practical calculating device. I think that's even the subject of a sci-fi book called "The Difference Engine".

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  2. Next Gen of MindStorms by Biul · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's real integration of LEGO and computing, the first rev was MIT's Brick, now this...

    http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,69946-0.html?t w=wn_tophead_1

    1. Re:Next Gen of MindStorms by Biul · · Score: 2, Informative

      check this out! BTW - they actually encourage hacking their product... http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/archive/2006/01/0 5/4006.aspx

  3. Computers by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 5, Informative
    Before the day of computers and pocket calculators, all mathematics was done by hand. Great effort was expended to compose trigonometric and logarithmic tables for navigation, scientific investigation, and engineering purposes.
    The job title of the people who did all the math? Who got up and all day every day did these same calculations over and over and over to build these tables?

    Computers.

    Note also that ENIAC's inended design purpose was to produce ballistic firing tables for Army artillery during WWII.

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    1. Re:Computers by GWTPict · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Logarithms, invented by John Napier born 1550. Henry Briggs, another British mathematician published a table of logarithms to 14 places of numbers from 1 to 20,000 and from 90,000 to 100,000 in 1624.

      http://www.thocp.net/reference/sciences/mathematic s/logarithm_hist.htm

      So enlighten me, what sort of computer was he using?

    2. Re:Computers by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 2, Funny
      No, no, you don't understand. Your 21st century mind is interfering with the original definition of "computer".

      The job title was computer. Say you go up to one of these math people and ask them what they do: "I'm a computer. I am one who computes. I compute the answers to complex formulas for use in various tables."

      Much like one who drives is a driver, and one who monitors is a monitor. We generally don't confuse NASCAR with software that handles communication between OS and hardware, or confuse mall security officers with a CRT display, right?

      --
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  4. Re:Wow by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Funny
    Give this guy the geek award for the year!

    Especially since Babbage never got one of his designs to work in a complete form. Now this (partial) implementation has been thrown together out of an off the shelf toy.

    I am not sure Babbage would appreciate knowing about this.

  5. Finally someone said it by ThePengwin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That is one thing that pisses me off. people dont realise that lego is a brand, not an objectt. it is refered to as "Pieces of lego" not Legos :P

    As for lego technology though i cant wait for the new Lego inteligent brick to come out. The NXT looks like a sexy piece of robotics and a big improvement to the RCX :)

  6. Seriously cool quote by NeoManyon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here is a quote from the man himself which is amazingly still relevant!

    "On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?'

    I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

    Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

    --
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    1. Re:Seriously cool quote by Belseth · · Score: 4, Funny
      "On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?'

      Is that where the saying Babbage in, Babbage out, came from?

  7. favorite Lego builds? by Boss+Sauce · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Bring on the links! A favorite of mine-- Cable camera rig.

  8. Difference Machine...pfffff by djvern · · Score: 4, Funny

    I built a Lego Turing Machine using only 1x1 blocks.

    1. Re:Difference Machine...pfffff by JakartaDean · · Score: 5, Funny
      I built a Lego Turing Machine using only 1x1 blocks.
      Is that you posting, or the Turing Machine?
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    2. Re:Difference Machine...pfffff by el_benito · · Score: 2, Funny

      How does is that you posting, or the Turing Machine make you feel?

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  9. The latest Wired... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    has a nice large article in it about Lego, which basically states that "Lego will do for robotics what iPod has done for music".

    Thats a pretty huge claim - Lego's were something I was interested in when I was 5-6 years old, putting together those $100 kits my parents would buy for me.

    It also seems to me that the image of the company is what's going to detract attention from any serious accomplishments. It's kind of like Toys 'R' Us getting in to the nuclear power industry - nobody would really take it seriously, because of the brand name.

    I think Lego should consider doing whatever they can to shake the "just for kids" image, possibly selling stuff through another company with a different name, in order to really get attention for what they're doing.

    1. Re:The latest Wired... by hcdejong · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It also seems to me that the image of the company is what's going to detract attention from any serious accomplishments.

      I haven't read the Wired article, but IMO Lego is uniquely positioned to revolutionize robotics *because* they're a toy company. With their Technic and Mindstorms ranges, Lego can get kids interested in engineering and robotics at the right age (8-12). Lego certainly contributed to my becoming an engineer.

      The problem with this strategy is getting kids interested in actually building something, rather than vegetating in front of the TV or chatting on the computer.

  10. Misleading headline by broothal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Lego is not going strong. As a matter of fact they're going through their worst crisis ever. Recently, they sold off their theme park "Lego Land" to a capital fund. Their problems are mainly decreasing sales due to illegal copies manufactured in Asia, but also similar toys manufactured in Asia. So, Lego faces a challenge. The danish factories are very effective and produce high quality, but the pay is many times higher than if they outsource. Yet, they core of Lego is their headquarters in Billund, Denmark. If they move everything to the east, would it still be Lego?
    One of the owners og Lego, the millionaire Kirk, has personally piped funds from him to Lego in an effort to ressurect the company. It seems like it's working, but Lego will probably end up with a loss in this fiscal year as it has the last 5 years.

    1. Re:Misleading headline by jimicus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You seen any recent Lego kits?

      10 years ago, your average Technic kit consisted of a few hundred brightly-coloured blocks which were fairly generic, maybe one or two unusual pieces, and they all fitted together in more-or-less the same way. You could even fit them to traditional lego bricks.

      I was given two kits for Christmas 2004. The first consisted entirely of beams which were smooth top and bottom and had to be fitted together with axles. Not very useful in conjunction with the old parts. The second consisted of bricks in about 6 or 7 different colours, all similar shades, and almost impossible to tell one shade from another in the printed instructions. None of the colours were the traditional Lego bright primary colours. Which was a bit of a bugger if you wanted to build the robot the included instructions covered as the whole look was ruined if you got the colours wrong.

      I later discovered that these two kits were close to the top of the Technic range and the range itself had narrowed to no more than about half a dozen or so kits available in your average toyshop.

      Cause of Lego financial difficulties or result?

  11. So much for the "imprecise mechanics" theory by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Some older references opine that Babbage failed because the parts and the mechanical engineering of the day just weren't up to the job of building a calculating machine.

    That was always questionable -- after all, England had high-precision chronometers the century before Babbage -- but if you can build a Difference Engine out of flexy plastic and gears designed for use in toys, then problems with brass are no excuse.

    The other theory is that the Babbage projects failed because he kept making design changes during assembly.

    Oh, and Wow. All bow to the new alpha nerd!

    1. Re:So much for the "imprecise mechanics" theory by hcdejong · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Science Museum built a Difference Engine no 2 using materials and techniques that were available in Babbage's time. They succeeded, so that was that theory out the window. The other theory is more likely.

    2. Re:So much for the "imprecise mechanics" theory by Bushcat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The chronometers were individually hand-crafted masterpieces. One of Babbage's assistants for a time was Whitworth, who went on to formulate specifications for screw threads, and helped define the whole concept of repeatable manufacturing quality, where accuracy could be measured, and components became interchangeable. That led to factories where the money someone was paid was based on the time it took, rather than the skill of the operator or the complexity of the product. The Difference Engine/Babbage helped create the Industrial Revolution, and benefitted from it.

  12. Re:LEGO PC by MindInABox · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nah, probably LegOS ;)

  13. Re:Buy Danish! by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Funny
    When you by Lego products, you help offset the Muslims in their attempt to cause damage to Denmark, and you defend freedom of speech for all of Western Civilization!

    As I understand it, Denmark's other exports consist almost exclusively of lager and bacon.

    I'm not entirely clear, then, on what a Muslim boycott of these products is supposed to achieve.

    --
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  14. Re:Wow by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Informative
    If memory serves, babbage did get his difference machine working.

    Well, yes and no

  15. Virtual Lego by mustafap · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are some nice add-ons for POV-Ray that generate Lego parts, so you can play with them in a virtual environment.

    eg

    http://www.ldraw.org/

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  16. Mirror by brickballs · · Score: 2, Informative
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  17. Gryphon Bricks by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Better than that, there was actually a 3D "building blocks" (they weren't really Legos) program called Gryphon Bricks. (Possibly 'Bricks 3D'.)

    I just looked it up and it seems as though the company has gone kaput, making me belive the program is probably abandoned. (Release date was Sep 1996.) I have the actual retail box around somewhere.

    I was kind of a neat concept, but honestly I found that arranging bricks via the mouse was considerably more difficult and less intuitive than putting them together by hand. One of the program's features, IIRC, was that you could put together a model in VR and then it would print a parts list for you. I suppose on very complex models that might have been useful, but I always felt like it would be easier to build the model by hand, take some Polaroids, and then take it apart to get the parts list.

    Anyway, it was a neat little program anyway, usefulness to 'Lego designers' nonwithstanding. It was fun if you were on a plane or something and just wanted to have a game to play that wasn't competitive but wasn't as ass-achingly boring as four hours worth of Minesweeper.

    And aside from the obvious weaknesses inherent in trying to move a physical-world building toy into the virtual one, it was a very well thought-out program. It was even AppleScriptable, which allowed for some interesting hacks.

    Information:
    http://www.thecomputershow.com/computershow/review s/gryphonbricks.htm

    Demo (MacOS 7.1 or later, OS X under Classic):
    http://mac.the-underdogs.org/index.php?show=game&i d=297

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