British PC Tax to Replace TV License?

caffeination writes "Here in Britain, anything capable of receiving live or virtually live broadcasts is considered TV receiving equipment. Because the detector vans can't actually 'catch' people watching such broadcasts on their computers, the BBC is proposing a blanket tax on PCs instead. They received several thousand responses to this green paper, ranging from the insightful to the unprintable."

Comments

PC tax

[Anonymous Coward]

Germany is the next. the start is here in 2007

Last year's news, changes a long way away

[alanw]

The Register article dates back to March last year.

The "BBC Charter Review" consultation closed in May 2005. The consultation was far wider reaching than the methods of funding, never mind proposed taxes on computers.

The changes to the license fee will not be needed until 2017.

Who would dare to predict what a "computer" will look like in 10 years time?

The up-to-date news is the Government Response to the Lords Committee Report on Charter Review, published on the 31 January 2006.

This document states:

132. We recommend that the system of funding the BBC until 2017 should be through a licence fee. We support the Government's decision to conduct an interim review of methods of funding but this should not be conducted until after the completion of analogue switch-off.

The Government welcomes the Committee's support for the licence fee. It is currently conducting a detailed review to establish the future level of the licence fee. Since technology is advancing rapidly, there will be a further review of methods of funding during the lifetime of the next Charter.

As stated in the Green Paper, this review is currently envisaged to take place towards the end of switchover to ensure that there is adequate time for planning and implementation should it be decided that changes are desirable. The Government will consider the Committee's recommendation that this review should await completion of digital switchover. It is worth noting that there have also been arguments that the review should happen earlier during the switchover process. The Green Paper makes clear, in any case, that the Government will retain the flexibility to alter this timing if the need arises.

Also remember this - I once had to take a foreign friend (an American living in Switzerland) who was visiting me to the Accident and Emergency department of the local hospital. All they asked for was her name and my name and address: they never asked for any payment. It's just as strange for someone in the UK to hear that you might be asked to pay in advance for emergency hospital treatment as for an American to hear that you need to pay a tax on televisions.

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[queazocotal]

To clarify UK law.

You do not need a license for "live or nearly live".

You need a license for recieving "television programs".

Looking further up the chain, into the broadcasting legislation, which defines "television programme", it's that broadcast by a "television programme service". http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/1996055.htm

This is not a remote PC, sending you data, whether or not that data is sourced off-air.

The transcoder would, as I understand it though require a license.

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[DAldredge]

It is illegal for a hospitals in the USA to refuse to provied emergency services due to the clients inability to pay.

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[soft_guy]

Every time I have been to the emergency room, they demanded that we fill out all kinds of insurance forms before they would treat myself or my family member. These were not life or death situations, but my 3 year old daughter had a large chunk of marble fall on her head and she was had to have stitches. We had to fill out forms and wait several hours before they would treat her. We were able to get the bleeding stopped ourselves. If we weren't, I'm sure they would have been faster.

I am also sure that if we had not had insurance we would have been turned away.

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[MindStalker]

Thats because TV stations make money through commericals. BBC does not play commericals, thus the need for a tax. So the exact comparison would be Americans pay taxes through commericals, and higher prices on products we buy.

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Every time I have been to the emergency room, they demanded that we fill out all kinds of insurance forms before they would treat myself or my family member.

If you come in in your own car and are lucid enough to remember them demanding stuff, then it's a low priority. If you show up unconcious or in an ambulance, then they wait til afterwards.

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[Anonymous Coward]

Although the license fee could be considered a tax, it goes straight to the BBC so the government has no control over it, other than the basic ability to change the rate which is pretty damn obvious so it can hardly be used as a subtle form of control.

The BBC is independent of the government and is free to report unfavourable things about the government (and has done.)

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[mmzplanet]

It is illegal for any ER to turn away any patient. EMTALA states that it is illegal to alter treatment decisions or methods based on financial considerations. You can go into any ER (public or private) and not volunteer name/ SSN, address or anything and you MUST be treated same as anyone else. If the hospital does anything to make you feel otherwise they are violating the law. Our hospital will not discuss what your co-pay is until you have been seen by medical staff (at least triaged). Even if you refuse, you are still treated the same as a fully insured/paid patient. You are even admitted if it is required. If you dont have the cash for the prescription... the hospital will provide it. They can only send you to another hospital if you have a condition that is beyond the hospital's capabilities. Even then a doctor on both ends must sign off on a transfer confirming that you are stable enough to be transported and both doctors agree its in the best interest. If it comes down to a transfer situation from an ER... you won't be taking yourself. If you do not have insurance all they can do is bill you later in the mail. I was always able to spot those who knew the system... some frequent fliers always gave a different name and never gave a SSN (or a false one)each visit. Still nothing the hospital can do to stop it.

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[mrdaveb]

The parent didn't say anything about where Big Brother originally came from... but assuming we are still talking about the TV show, it started in the Netherlands

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[baadger]

£126.50 - thats $221 USD.

Here is an interesting quote from the TV licensing website. Emphasis is mine

Do I need a licence?

If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by law to have one.

If you receive British TV to your PC now by way of a tuner card you need a license, so I don't see why getting programming solely through the Internet should be any different.

There have been some pretty interesting developments reported recently regarding TV and video content via the Internet with my UK ISP, NTL:

• 
     
• NTL and BitTorrent debut UK's first 100Mbits broadband
• 
     
• Cable co. NTL signs BitTorrent file-sharing deal

By the way, the license _technically_ isn't for owning a TV, if you have no means to receive a television signal, from cable, terrestrial or satellite noone can force you to pay a penny and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away

[batkiwi]

Examine public vs private hospitals in the US.

A public hospital is required to treat anyone, regardless of insurance/etc details.
A private hospital is not, although they are required to transport you directly to a public hospital after a basic triage.

Re:General taxation

[Anonymous Coward]

The BBC could dramatically reduce it's license tax if it didn't make crappy soap operas and general junk used to pad the broadcast hours. The whole point of the tax is to ensure someone makes the programmes others do not. Yet 99% of BBC output is pure garbage, like ITV.

Re:Complete PCs or Components

[jacksonj04]

Nah, TV licence is once per household. If you have a PC in addition to a TV, it will be covered under the same licence.

Detector van evidence has never been used in court

[nih]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence

Despite the prevalence of so-called "detector-vans" in TVL advertising and literature, the main method of detecting evaders is an address-based database system called "LASSY". This is basically a list of all addresses in the UK - letters and agents from Capita are sent to any address not listed as a paying customer. No evidence from any kind of "detection equipment" has been used by Capita in any UK court case to date - some speculate that it would be inadmissable because information about how such equipment works is not known (unlike for example Gatso speed cameras).

they might as well be white vans not capable of detecting any tv signals, afaik they are...

Re:a bunch of government idiots...

[ScottyLad]

"How much does the gov't spend to administer/collect this tax and find/prosecute offenders?...

The Government doesn't spend a penny - the TV Licensing Authority is the independent self-funding revenue department for the BBC. ...By funding the BBC out of general tax revenue, the second amount will be reduced to zero.

It wouldn't reduce the evasion rate to zero - it would simply be moving the responsibility for reprimanding offenders from the TV Licensing Authority to HM Revenue and Customs, and placing the BBC in direct State control.

Re:Complete PCs or Components

[mikael]

The Sunday Mail have an article on this subject. Basically, the BBC is pushing for TV licenses to be paid on all electronic devices that can play streamed video (mobile phones, laptops, PC's with TV/satellite reception cards). If you go into a store, you will be asked to fill in a form giving your name and address. This isn't an extended warranty, it's to send to the TV Licensing Authority. Similarly anything ordered online will also forward your address to the TVLA. And with the right software, even a console game system would be eligible as well, even if you didn't have a TV in the house (if it had a web browser and could play RealPlayer/Quicktime clips). At present, a TV license costs around 180 pounds/year.

More details can be found here: Have you got a license for that mobile sir?

Australian TV funding

[quenda]

And whatever it is, I don't think it's good. I went on holiday last year for three weeks to Australia and television there is wall to wall crap. Adverts every couple of minutes

You are confusing two thing:
- federally tax-funded television, ABC and SBS, which can be very good, and programs are never interrupted by adverts.
- advertising funded commercial TV which has descended from bad to utter crap.

Fortunately all the good programs from commercial networks are available on DVD or bit-torrent. (both of them? :-)
And all the good topical doco / current affairs programs are on non-commercial stations. (Except Nine's "Sunday" program.) So you need never watch adverts, not even on fast-forward.