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Chinese Claim Internet Censorship Modeled on West
ubermiester wrote to mention a NYT article reporting on a Chinese Press Briefing. At the event Liu Zhengrong, supervisor of Internet affairs for the Chinese State Council, stated that the state control of Internet access is based on Western models. From the article: "Mr. Liu said the major thrust of the Chinese effort to regulate content on the Web was aimed at preventing the spread of pornography or other content harmful to teenagers and children. He said that its concerns in this area differ minimally from those in developed countries. Human rights and media watchdog groups maintain that Chinese Web censorship puts greater emphasis on helping the ruling party maintain political control over its increasingly restive society. Such groups have demonstrated that many hundreds of Web sites cannot be easily accessed inside mainland China mainly because they are operated by governments, religious groups or political organizations that are critical of Chinese government policies or its political leaders."
Deflect the attention from yourselves, and pretend that you're just doing the same thing the West (read: United States) is doing: just trying to protect innocent children on the internet ("Who will think of the children?"), at the same time attempting to change the debate from your own despicable censorship of speech and thought to the alleged transgressions of Western governments.
Except that the reality is easy for anyone to see: you (attempt to) suppress sites dealing with politics, religion, dissent, and anything critical of the Chinese government or that doesn't support positions sanctioned by the Chinese government. The West and US don't do this (no matter how much our friendly, local conspiracy theorists might claim it).
Come on, China. I thought you could lie better than that.
Tienamen square and all the other attempts at revolution as pornography?
Someone better call the Whaaaaaarickshaw!
For keeping me safe from seeing a pair of breasts. Because you aren't very good at keeping me safe from much else.
Seriously, it shouldn't be the government's job to keep kids away from porn. It should be their fucking parent's job. So China's argument is still BS to me.
No sig for you!!
I think they consider it more like that Nazi stuff that many european countries disallow on their web sites. IIRC yahoo and ebay both got in trouble in europe for content much less explicit Nazi stuff than Tianammen SQ images
article: "If you study the main international practices in this regard you will find that China is basically in compliance with the international norm," he [the official] said. "The main purposes and methods of implementing our laws are basically the same."
purpose: to censor "harmful" parts of the Internet, no definition of "harmful"
method: firewalls and Internet minders, not necessarily censorship itself
Seems like you could come up a pretty nice comparision between the Chinese government and AOL blocking porn sites with a kid filter under such broad terms of discussion.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
It's really not that different. Both governments believe that some of their citizens need to be protected from corrupting influnces ( a position that I do not agree with, BTW ). We here in the west, who are unduly obsessed with the silly idea of the innocence of childhood, protect one kind of citizen. They try to protect another kind.
Our governments are really very similar.
Really, just try to google HORSE SEX VIDEO if you live in the US!
s e%20sex%20video
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=gmail&q=hor
All those 19 million results? Not that much horse sex, and even fewer videos!
G-d Damn fascist censors!
The latest Slashdot meme.
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Sometimes, dissolving bonds is necessary.
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/china/
ConsultingFair.com
FTA: Mr. Liu said that Chinese Internet users have free rein to discuss many politically sensitive topics and rejected charges that the police have arrested or prosecuted people for using the Internet to circulate views.
He... is... nuts.
"Major U.S. companies do this and it is regarded as normal," Mr. Liu said. "So why should China not be entitled to do so?"
But he has a point here.
Our congressman are editing their own bios in wikipedia...
Bush is requesting personal data from Google and the likes...
And quite some people are getting fired for blogging...
If I clone myself, can I call it a thread?
If a girl winks to us, can I call it a race condition?
In the west (except for Australia apparently, which isn't really in the west anyway) there are a lot of people who think porn is ok as long as it's contained to a place where we don't have to see it if we don't want to. As long as we know where it is, we can get it, but I don't want it shoved down my throat.
China may have a different cultural attitude towards porn, with a very large portion of the populace thinking that it must be banned, which gives the government more reasons to censor speech under the guise of getting rid of this terrible plague that everyone hates.
Don't kid yourself... the government in the US and other western nations would use this same excuse to censor your political beliefs if more of the population thought this content was objectionable. Therefore, the amount our government can censor us increases as the number of taboo subjects increase in our society.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
"Pornography", huh? So that's what you kids are calling it these days?
Back in my day, it was either "political unrest" or "down with the man"! We didn't have to make up no fancy words for it, just said it as it is, and people were alright with that, yup.
Crazy kids. I swear, there's no telling what they will come up with next!
Now get the hell off my lawn!
Atheist, communist China does not want pr0n on the Internet. Religious wingnuts don't want pr0n on the Internet. Why those two who are at extremely opposed political positions don't want pr0n on the Internet???
Glad to know the fundies running China are up to the task of protecting us from porn, especially of that really depraved Tiennamen sort.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
4) Torture some more people in Guantanamo Bay
The USA has no moral high ground when it comes to human rights violations.
London's finest organic fairtrade coffee
So...basically...China says their censorship is modeled on ours. How many people are going to have the little lightbulb go off and realize that is exactly what all these wonderful US crafted laws are about? How many are just going to scream about China trying to deflect blame? Certainly what China is doing is quite a bit worse than what is going on in the western world, but maybe people will see what IS going on in the western world as the path to what China is currently doing.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Something like this: "Yahoo is committed to obey local laws, ONLY if they don't go against international treaties and human rights."
... poses significant problems" in the text. Which is rather odd for a country that spends so much time spouting off about how much it loves human rights, and spends so much time passing pointless laws on the basis that they'll supposedly make children safer. (Like COPPA, which "protects" children by forcing them to lie about their age.)
But Yahoo is based in a country that does not particularly respect international treaties on human rights; for example, you're doubtless well aware that the USA is one of only two states that has not ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
According to the Bush administration, the reason for this is that "the human rights-based approach
On almost every news post there is some quack that trys to bash somone of a different political view.
What they say and what is actually true are almost always two different things, same could be said to the above quote. Let them say and do what they want, it's their country after all. Besides if someone in China really, I mean REALLY, wants to get to some information they are going to get it.
You really need to get off your political "high horse" and pull your head out of the ground and actually listen and understand, and then stop making everything so freakin political.
I do agree that pron is a small problem, but I don't think that it should be the gov't right to regulate it. I do however think that is the parents responsibility to regulate what their child/preteen is doing on the internet. But again it goes back to my previous statement: If there is something that you really really want on the "net", you WILL find a way to get to it.
Yes, right-wing conservatives, the Chinese say they're JUST LIKE YOU.
Oh yes, because the mainstream liberal political front of US politics has never worked against pr0n, violent video games or bad song lyrics... [rolling eyes]... please, stop trying to put a spin on this, the left does the same thing the right does. There is a common sense of morality that is considered the norm in this society and it has little to do with political lines.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Senior Party Leaders Join Battle Against Chinese Censorship.
This idea that the Chinese government is entirely pro-censorship is a bit untrue. There are those within China---even some who are high up the political food chain---who see this as a bad idea.
I wonder how it'll all turn out?
-Tom
Hey, I just saw some deskmonkey on CNBC's business news cooing over the DuPont CEO, who praised Bush's "prioritization of science and math education in his State of the Union speech". The DuNapalmPont CEO's favorite example of "public private partnership for improving education"? His recent meeting in Shanghai with Communist Party Vice Mayor for R&D, running their own government labs. Meanwhile, Bush just cut education funding, while funding any number of religious and political operations.
Fascism is the merger of business and government power, by putting a government face on the corporate body. Communism is the same merger, by ownership of property and operation of business by government. Both are run on propaganda and censorship, usually promoted as education.
--
make install -not war
While I imagine I am headed for -255 troll...People in power write laws, enact regulations, and monkey with the system to remain in power.
Consider redistricting, which should really be called the lottery for those in power. You get to redistrict to ensure you stay in power. What Tom Delay did with redistricting in Texas was not illegal, because the law was on his side. Was it right? Ask someone from each party and the answer is different. Perhaps the Democrats are just mad they did not think of it first, or glad they would not run that far outside the ethical center.
Or what happened at the State of the Union where Cindy Sheehan was arrested. I am not saying I agree or do not with her politics, but look at it from the outside. The President had a citizen arrested, who disagreed with him. That it was a Capital police officer, is a distinction made in the US.
George Washington warned about foreign entanglements, because the compromise our ability to make a stand. If we want the Chinese to change their behavior, then we need to offer them an incentive. Unfortunately, we have become seriously "entangled." China now holds sufficient US currency to bankrupt America. Not the philosophical bankrupt, but the real - worse than 1929 depression kind. Worse, we gave them full trade status because there was money to be made.
Walmart, the nation's largest employer, now imports over 80% of their goods from China and makes up 1% of the Chinese GDP. What do you think they or other industries will tell a President thinking about an embargo or a serious response to China's stand?
I am not suggesting we agree with the Chinese or even remain silent. But, we need to have something tangible or each time we speak out, we sound weaker. The Chinese know we have little affect on their future and find us more a curiosity than an threat. Until we can position ourselves to have real leverage, they have no reason to listen, or even care.
In other words, it's okay for China to block freedom and democracy because the "West" blocks child pornography? Pardon me if I don't see the moral equivalence.
A better comparison would be France and Germany blocking certain Nazi related information. It is a better comparison because the "West" (as a whole) condemns it as well.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
The technology is such that there will be thousands, if not millions, of workarounds to penetrate any barriers to access. Just look at the history so far of electronic transmission.
I don't think anyone here is giving credit to the intelligence of people. They are parroting the standard line that evil is all powerful and cannot be overcome.
Get real! The nerds will create gaping holes in the barriers, and as the government moves to plug them up, the nerds will create more. The game will continue indefinitely.
But my money is on the hackers to always be one step ahead. The information will flow regardless of government controls.
Bill
That's why it's such a brilliant novel. It's not specific to any one country or point in time. At the time it was released, it was probably a good parallel to any form of state control over its peoples and what they want them to think and believe.
That book has been around because it is still a relevant, insightful overview of what happens as state control gets higher and individual freedoms get eroded. It also shows how through manipulation, your government can convince you of their version of the truth and make it imposible for you to know otherwise.
The great thing about that book, is you can see parallels to current events, historical events, your country, other countries, different ideologies, and a whole bunch of things.
The early parallels you saw with the US and the later more direct parallels with China, well, it's a matter of degrees and awareness of it. What he only scratched the surface of at the beginning was no more entrenched than at the end; just for that one person, the perspectives had changed.
History is recorded by the victors. If you're told we've always been at war with EastAsia, well, eventually you'll believe it. Even when we'r at war with someone else.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I think you got your verb tenses wrong.
a l_Assembly_Resolution_2758
Taiwan was recognized as a soverign nation, until they were effictively sold out by Pres. Jimmy Carter and numerous other world leaders in the name of political expediency in the 1970s. They were expelled from the UN via Resolution 2758, and were 'un-recognized' by the US via the Taiwan Relations Act.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Gener
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Almost without exception, the more politically repressive a government is, the more puritanical it is as well. Whether the repression is theocratic, communist, or whatever, attempts to control sexuality generally go hand-in-hand with attempts to control political expression. There's just a general mindset that likes telling people what not to do, and people with that mindset tend to come to power in such systems.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
"Mr. Liu said the major thrust of the Chinese effort to regulate content on the Web was aimed at preventing the spread of pornography or other content harmful to teenagers and children.
fine, sites like this: http://et.21cn.com/portray/ , this: http://tu.tom.com/list/beauty.html , this: http://www.qihoo.com/site/tietu/index.html ... are totally accessible China sites for Chinese teenagers and children of any age... (yep, they're NOT pornography and harmful content, maybe I'm just too sensitive...)
dear poor blocked http://www.freebsd.org/ you're more harmful to teenagers and children in China...
twitter.com/xuyihua