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Prostitutes Call for a Ban on GTA
d writes "Gamespot has an article about an association of prostitutes protesting the GTA games. Apparently, the sex workers of the Sex Workers Outreach Project aren't too happy about their ingame counterparts being treated violently in the GTA games. They note that the games are a bad influence on children, and might encourage rape and violent behavior towards prostitutes in real life."
and what is immoral? about selling sex for money? it seems like a rather honest exchange
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
There's much, much more. The Pimp missions require you to save your hos from rough customers! They should be praising this game not calling for it's boycott!
-1 (Troll) is antihammer
But still, if it comes down to consensual sex versus beating/killing people, I'd think that the sex would be less harmful to children.
...mammary glands and naked women shouldn't be censored but violence should be?
:-)
That sounds like the difference between European and American censorship. If think we (the EU) have it right on this one. In my ideal world we're all exposed to sex, rather than violence
Maybe in more civilized countries, but not in the USA. Here, we take pride in glamorizing violence as it contributes nothing at all to society, while degrading the reason that we are all here. After all, it's yucky. And nobody should ever think of it. EVER.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
This one makes the most sense. I've heard my share of B.S. "videogames made me do it" stories over the years, but this one has the most legitimate basis of them all. It stands to reason that some frat boy who is majorly into his GTA, either tries to treat a prostitute or a dancer in a similar manner because it is seen and portrayed as a given that you smack a ho. It really does promote the behavior and I could see the point.
I know it all seems silly, prostitutes complaining and drawing parallels from a video game to real violence. But in reality prostitues are pretty much an accepted thing in America (even though many would have you believe otherwise) and after reading a book a while back about the Mustang Ranch in Vegas, I have a whole new outlook on them and their trade. The knee jerk reaction is to laugh it off, but I truly believe this compalint is the most valid yet.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
Lots of comments on here about pot and kettle and prostitution being illegal and imoral.
Personally, I can't stand people who put down sex trade workers, but don't save any derrision for the Johns. If you think prostitutes are low-lifes, then quit paying them.
a lot of you are talking about it in a black and white view from your ivory towers. It doesnt matter where morality comes in, the simple fact remains that prostitution is NOT equatable to sex or nudity because prostitution is done when someone has nothing else they can do. It doesnt matter whether its immoral or not, thats a nonissue, the point is you cant think of it as just having sex for money because its not that simple, and that is a very juvenile and simplistic view to have.
"Maybe in more civilized countries, but not in the USA. Here, we take pride in glamorizing violence as it contributes nothing at all to society, while degrading the reason that we are all here."
What bizarro-land do you live in? The majority of the US seems to glorify both of them. I can certainly walk through the mall and look at posters of all-but-naked women without someone trying to burn them or a guy in a blue butterfly suit jumping in front of me. And violence will be necessary as long as there is _anyone_ willing to use it to their own advantage. Tibet tried pacifism; look where it got them.
you cant rape the willing...
I wonder when ford and other car companies are going to step in and demand justice because GTA encourages violent behavior towards cars?
or maybe the anti-gun people would like to jump on board becuase GTA encourages kids to carry 10 consealed weapons on their persons at any given time including rocket launchers and flame throwers!
I personally find it offencive that you can run a red light in GTA and not have any consiquenses.
since when has bitching about shit taken the place of independant thought?
"two independant thought alarms in one day?" -seymore skinner
-Boycot shampoo! demand real poo!
No, the state protects you from those who would exploit you, not from yourself. There should be a way to protect people from exploitation while still allowing them to do whatever the fuck they want to to their bodies, as long as they're of sound mind and there's no coersion involved.
And why is non-simulated porn allowed while prostitution isn't (in most states of the U.S. I mean)? It's all sex for money, right?
But look at TV. You can see extreme acts of violence and gore (watch CSI, if only for gore), but most acts of sex are completely removed. Even on CSI, they always have the naughty parts on corpses covered. When I first watched the pilot for Firefly, I was amazed that they had a pseudo-sex-scene. Most likely because in the 23 years I've watched TV, I've never seen anything like that on a network station.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
> Is this a joke? Sex Workers Outreach Project?!?
No, it's not. And if you read their website, you'd see why it's not. For one thing, they have a goal for the decriminaliztion for the consensual sex industry, among other things (such as laws to help protect prostitutes). What more they outline their motives in a clear way, showing that through reform prostitutes can be helped rather than left to fend for themselves.
It's an intersting debate for where to draw the line between what laws are considered ethical. It's common for playing video games to be ethical, although sometimes they're content is not, but in the end they're legal. Murder is considered unethical, so it's illegal. Prostitiution is a strange one: prostitutes give their consent, so realistically they are not being harmed since they have the option of avoiding the situation if proper precautions are taken. Someone might argue that by consenting they are harming themselves, which is another matter all together, but you can say the same for tobacco.
Their members have a different set of morals, and believe that their freedoms as citizens are being restricted by the morals of others. You don't have to agree with them, but at least they're being logical about it.
Although I do see the humor in the irony in trying to get parents who probably view them as the lowest human lifeform to join their cause against the game. That's just silly.
CowsAnonymous: We're here to help moo.
Are quite hard to find.
James P. Barrett
Yeah, let's all take advice on morality from hookers...
I'd be more suspicious of people who base their morality on hocus-pocus religious mythology.
There's nothing immoral about a consentual agreement between adults.
" Why is sex in any way in the same league as violence, in the canon of what's "bad"?"
Because most all of the arguement are coming from the usa. The us is a place where they look at the naked human body as obscene and something that no one should show in public. Sex is looked at as evil mostly becuase the us was founded by a bunch of people that were afraid of thier own genitalia. they had tyrannical laws in the begginning stating exactly what kind of sex was legal and even when you could have it. many o these laws are still on the books and even prosecuted. so that's why.
WTF?
P.S. Maybe people would be nicer to prostitutes if they were FREE
That totally cracked me up. But seriously, people have got to lighten up. This is a GAME! Are SWAT unions protesting because they're the main target in CounterStrike? Is Germany demanding that the US stop selling Battlefield 2, because it depicts violence directed to German citizens? I would guess the answers would be "no", and "no".
Not to say that these games will ruffle some feathers (I read recently about some indians threatening to sue a game company because of its 1800's shooter), but they're not supposed to be representations of real life. Anyone stupid enough, or sick enough, to believe that and later try to do it in real life, ought to be locked up anyway.
Marcos
This is true, and after all, aren't many relationships really the same thing, except instead of cash for sex, it's dinner and a movie for sex? In marriages where only one spouse works, isn't it security for sex? After all, the relationship would likely disolve pretty quickly if the sex stopped.
Prostitution is simply a more direct and honest means of making that exchange, without the games, deceit, emotional entaglement, or manipulation.
Prostitution will always have a special place among crimes in the hearts of law enforcement personel and legislators, since many are customers.
Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
P.s. Maybe people would be nicer to prostitutes if they were FREE
Talk to the (your) hand. Prostitution, by definition, is free as in libre but not as in beer - you pay for it. FREE (as in beer) sex may have more of a price tag than you want to pay once you've had it. Think about it.
The reason why so many people have a problem with GTA is because it treats sex with prostitutes as both no big deal and as generally beneficial. Which would tend to make people see it as something that shouldn't be illegal. Hence lies (about rape) and exaggerations (you get points for killing prostitutes, while killing a prostitute in GTA may be beneficial it also carries in game risks which may make it detrimental).
But the goal of NIMF isn't, for example, to make prostitutes the one class of person in the game who are invulnerable, it is to remove them from the game completely. Removing the ability to portray prostitutes in a game removes the ability to portray them positively.
This is actually very sad, because I imagine the guys at Rockstar North are in favor of decriminalization and also against the murder or maltreatment of prostitutes, so their opinion would be inline with SWOP-USA. (I come to this conclusion from the political content of the game, the hypocracy of right wing congressman Shrub and his mistress porn star Candy Suxxx for example.)
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
*This depends on the country and the context. Somalia has no Government to speak of and therefore nobody to define such terms. With assassination considered a legitimate tool in the war on terror, the boundaries are getting fuzzy even when stable political systems exist.
Yes, this is relevant, as we are looking here at whether something is considered by a given country to be a serious crime or even a crime at all. If there are countries where prostitution is a serious crime and murder is acceptable, then do you look at their standards for so judging, or go by your own?
I'm not condoning or condemning anything here, I'm merely pointing out that it's never been clear-cut. What is "serious" is simply too subjective and varies far too much between individuals, never mind countries.
As far as sex workers are concerned, my only personal opinion is that there exists no way of identifying and assisting abuse victims who drift into the trade, those abused within it, modern slaves, anyone acting under duress for any other reason, etc. Nor is any serious effort made to deal with those involved in abuse, slavery, etc.
Changing laws that are highly emotionally charged is difficult and likely to be infrequent. So it is vitally important that if/when they are changed, they are changed in a way that provides the greatest benefit for the longest time. I am not convinced that lobbyists are the best ones to explain benefits and I'm not convinced that anyone else has identified the risks - present or future.
The status quo sucks (bad choice of words for this topic, but who cares?) but every alternative I've ever heard seems infinitely worse and far more prone to bring about the very problems that are supposed to be being cured, especially as the real problems seem to be largely being ignored.
Deal with the serious stuff first and then worry about the details. Otherwise it is just vote-trawling and people-pleasing.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
So how do the $1000/hour callgirls fit into your world view? They sure aren't short of a nickel, they probably make more than you or I. Equating all prostitutes with street walking crack whores is a gross over simplification of a complex situation. Whilst I have no desire to see people do unpleasant & dangerous work (of any kind) simply to make ends meet I also don't see what business it is of mine to tell someone what they can and can't do behind closed doors, given that no one else is being harmed. There are plenty of intelligent, educated, sane people working as prostitutes all over the world, and they do it because they want to not because they have to. More power to them.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
right on. and let's not forget that GTA didn't start this - it can all be traced back to the ninja turtle arcade game where you have a chance to whack that whore on the skateboard.
ôó
I don't approve of censorship, but if there is to be such, I'd prefer that it was non-consensual violence that was censored.
Of course, since I don't approve of censorship, they won't ask my opinion.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Why should the cops spend ANY time investigating an org centered around a legal activity?
They seem to spend plenty of time investigating the ACLU, so you tell me.
If only it could be possible, more playmates on TV and less people who cut other peoples head with a saw
You just got troll'd!
What's always seemed strange to me is that prostitution is illegal unless you film it.
In other words, I can pay a woman to have sex with me if she is an actor in my porn film. I just can't do it for my own private pleasure, I have to be making something for others to see. Bizarre.
Very true. but seriously I dont think prostitutes should be offended by that. I dont get mad at SNL's "Your Company's Computer Guy" That is actually funny.
Don't look for logic in this.
The point these folks seem to be missing is that you can beat up any random pedestrian in GTA3SA. If you choose to do so to a prostitute, that came from you, not from the game -- it was your choice. (Well, they do have more cash to take, but so do drug dealers. Both tend to be armed, but the only one you're encouraged to wax are the crack dealers.)
Someone had to do it.
They should make a fighting game where all the characters are religious figures. So you can be Jesus and beat the crap out of Mohammed, or vice versa. Other characters would include Satan, Buddha, Mary, an Orthodox rabbi, Vishnu, God, Santa, the Easter Bunny and Cthulhu. You wouldn't even have to make a profit off the game to get filthy rich- you'd just invest in defense contractors and then when screenshots of Mohammed and Satan tag-teaming the Easter Bunny and Buddha start circulating around the world, World War III starts and your defense stocks go through the roof.
Most of the comments on this article are astoundingly immature and disrespectful. Prostitution may not be an acceptable job for most people, but that in no way makes them less human, and if anything it makes it important for them to form organizations to support other sex workers.
Whether you condone the profession or not, that shouldn't affect their worth as a person who deserves respect.
And I do think this is bunk - just like the idea that schools are less safe because of GTA, or that 13 year olds are more violent. But the fact that the general response to this has been "Prostitutes? Hah! They're sluts anyways, who cares what they think?" is more than a little disconcerting.
They're just people like the rest of us who've chosen a particular profession.
It is even more sobering to consider that many prostitutes are simply trying to pay the bills and have no way out. Many prostitutes, if not all, don't like their "service", but they do it because it's a way to make money.
You better cover your kids' eyes when you go to East Hastings, Vancouver, BC. There are 5000 meth/heroin/coke/crackheads and prostitutes wandering the streets any time of day. It's amusing watching them do the funky chicken walking across the road or jumping in front of your car proclaiming themselves Jesus when you're doing 55km/h with the doors locked hoping not to catch a red light...
Hookers are trash and they should not be defended. Instead, we should all throw pennies at them until they get off the drugs and get a real respectable career. I'd have respect for them if their job actually took skill, but how much skill does it take to lay on your back and be so high you don't even know what's going on. I *might* have more respect for a hooker who doesn't take drugs, but most of them down a 26er of vodka, do meth, heroin, coke, whatever, because they hate themselves for doing what they do. These are people who need help.
The kids today are fucked. I am usually an optimist and I have had faith in the general 'goodness' and compassion of the majority of people, but when I hear about the statistics in our schools today I become afraid. I have a little sister who is 14 and 95% of the people in her school do coke, sleep with 25 yr olds (these are 14 yr old girls), and generally just don't have any idea of what it takes to survive. The guys, in turn, are RAPING these girls at parties, growing up to be sex-obsessed assholes and pedophiles, etc.
These kids' parents give them whatever they want without ever teaching them wrong from right. I think there is an enormous responsibility for parents to prevent brainwashing from the media (and other people) where people are seen as objects. We need to teach the next generation about morals, tolerance, and respect instead of taking the easy way out, ignoring the problem, becoming 'zombies' ourselves, and ultimately dying unhappy.
The kids aren't paying attention. There are too many flashy video games, too many movies about being pimps, too many pop-star dumbass skanks, too many easy hookups with bar-sluts - it's easy to see why they might be distracted. They're being conditioned to live fast and die young.
The STDs are spreading more and more rapidly. It's time for the smart ones to cut loose and watch as the others build upon the reason for the eventual revolution. One day we can only hope, as it was just 50 years ago, being promiscuous will no longer be popular and we will see long-term marriage grow in numbers and people treating each other with compassion instead of as competition or a prize.
Hitler represents the ultimate in human evil in popular culture (dunno if he really was, the competition is though for that position), just like the devil represents the ultimate in supernatural evil. As such Hitler definitely has religious significance. He's a kind of anti-saint, and has been nominated as a possible candidate for being the Beast of Revelation.
Point is, Hitler's become legendary. In reality, of course, he was just an evil and likely insane human who gained power and not "evil given human form" or something like that, but the man has long since been eclipsed by the legend.
Hitler was, for all intents and purposes, worshipped in Nazi Germany. Even now, long dead, he casts a shadow over modern-day Germany - and the whole word, really; it was largely the result of his actions that Europe lost the leadership of world to the US and that the state of Israel was born (which is one of the major reasons for conflicts between muslims and West). Moreover, the words "Hitler" and "Nazi" have the same echo as the words "Satan" and "demon", and the swastica evokes the same response as the pentagram.
Based on this, I have to consider Hitler a religious figure. Hitler and the Nazis have long since ceased having their most importance as real historical figures, and become symbols of evil instead.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
You go around, as the angle of death, wiping out communities of humans and vampires alike.
An evil god raises you from the dead to wipe the earth clean. Does this teach children something they shouldn't be learning?
Or in other news, movies about drug dealing often glorify (and rightly so) the lives of drug dealers, because they often have exciting lives. Does this teach children something they shouldn't be learning?
Even worse, watching politicians on TV lie about corruption, sex, drugs, drinking and influence teaches children how to use a silver tongue. Does this teach them something they shouldn't be learning?
Lack of information, lack of exposure, lack of knowledge never saved anyone. Ignorance is never bliss; and the only way you can confront hatred, violence, and deception is head on. "Saving" your children from these things only ensures that when they encounter them in 'the real world' they'll get hoodwinked, abused, or assaulted. Better to teach them, than to let them learn themselves.
This doesn't necessarily mean you should hand your kids GTA and tell 'em to go at it. But perhaps you should sit down and play it with them(assuming they have reached the age of reason (determining this is left as an exercise to the reader)), and stress that its a fun game, but its _fantasy_, and _dark_ fantasy at that. Parenting 101.
*shrug*. Or maybe your supposed to keep your kids in a pink room till they reached the age of 18, and then let them into the world, with no knowledge at all, with the sound assurance that all your prayer from 0-18 will encourage God to watch over them in their ignorance.....
*shrug*.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell