4th BC Century Defensive Wall Unearthed

An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo News is reporting that Greek archaeologists have discovered a 2,600 meter defensive wall whose design was 'inspired by Alexander the Great.' In addition to the wall itself 4th-century BC bronze coins were also found inside the structure. From the article: 'The discovery was made in the archaeological site of Dion, an ancient fortified city and key religious sanctuary of the Macedonian civilization, which ruled much of Greece until Roman times.'"

Comments

"Macedonian civilization"

[Anonymous Coward]

Ancient Macedonia was a Greek state, not a civilization independant from the rest of Greece.

Re:"Macedonian civilization"

[CRCulver]

I knew it was only a matter of time until someone came with the Greek nationalist view. Too bad that no one outside of Greece cares. Yes, Alexander and his father spoke Greek, but the simple fact of the matter is that only the upper crust of Macedonia was educated in the Greek language. The peons spoke only their local vernacular, an Indo-European language too far removed from Greek for mutual intelligibility. Archaeological evidence shows that Macedonia had its own pottery and jewelry traditions which were different than those of Greece, so the culture was not Greek. Saying that Macedonia was a part of the Greek nation is like calling present-day India part of England just because the upper classes there speak English.

Re:"Macedonian civilization"

[asdfgl]

Let me remind you 'Grammiki A' and 'Grammiki B' (Linear A and B), two forms of written language in the Southern part of Greece that bears no resemblance to later Greek language. The Minoan civilisation, that no one disagrees that was Greek, was totally different than Greece as we later know it.

Linear A and B are used for writing different languages. Linear A, the older of them is in a undeciphered language which is clearly not related to Greek or any other indo-european language. Linear B has clearly been shown to be Greek by Michael Ventris et al. Therefore we can assert that at least the minoan elite spoke Greek.

The first time in modern era that someone spoke of Skopjia/Vardaska as 'Macedonia' was Tito, the communist leader of Yugoslavia. That was in the 40s. The reason that move was made was because Tito wanted Yugoslavia to have access to the Mediterranean sea sometime in the future, when the Communist Empire was to grow.

Tito had no need to make such dubious claim on greek territory as Yugoslavia was never landlocked. I won't refute the possibility that he had other motives, but access to the Mediterranian wasn't one of them.

Alexander as a God

[Quirk]

Alexander, a pupil of Aristotle (neither had much if anything to say about the other), was worshiped as a God by many ancient kingdoms. His conquests to the east, starting with his famous cutting of the Gordian Knot before his conquests in ancient Persia, lead to the adumbration of the Old Silk Road which was to become the first major conduit between the far east and the west.

Upon his death his generals squabbled over the conqured lands, individually taking control of various areas. The Ptolemy reign of Egypt ended with the conquest of Egypt by Julius Ceasar and his taking of Cleopatra as his lover and mother of their child.

The true legacy of Alexander was the Hellenization of the ancient world. The ancient Greek culture was idealized and emulated by the Macedonians, (hence Aristotle as teacher to Alexander), and Alexander spread the idealized version of the ancient Greek culture throughout the lands he conqured.

Re:Alexander the great

[luvirini]

Actually the two great conquerors are more like: Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan.

People like Napoleon or Hitler get a lot of style points reduced because of the short time(historically speaking) it took to beat them.

4th Century *BC*

[nutshell42]

There *is* a difference, you know.

Re:Alexander the great

[mollusk]

I'm pretty sure that the millions of descendents of Ghengis Khan would disagree. He ruled a far bigger empire than either Alexander or Napoleon. He did conquer almost all of Asia and part of Europe, including present day China, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Hungary, Iran, and Iraq.

And now! For the real story..........

[Whiteox]

Quote: "ATHENS (AFP) - Greek archaeologists excavating an ancient Macedonian city in the foothills of Mount Olympus have uncovered a 2,600-metre defensive wall whose design was "inspired by the glories of Alexander the Great," the site supervisor said Thursday.
Built into the wall were dozens of fragments from statues honouring ancient Greek gods, including Zeus, Hephaestus and possibly Dionysus, archaeologist Dimitrios Pantermalis told a conference in the northern port city of Salonika, according to the Athens News Agency.
Early work on the fortification is believed to have begun under Cassander, the fourth-century BC king of Macedon who succeeded Alexander the Great. Cassander is believed to have ordered the murders of Alexander's mother, wife and infant son, Pantermalis said.
The wall's design suggests that it was "inspired by the glory of Alexander the Great in the East," as the young king sought to emulate grandiose structures encountered during his campaigns, Pantermalis told the conference.
Bronze coins from the period of Theodosius, the 4th-century AD Byzantine Emperor who abolished the ancient Olympic Games, were also found hidden inside the wall.

The discovery was made in the archaeological site of Dion, an ancient fortified city and key religious sanctuary of the Macedonian civilisation, which ruled much of Greece until Roman times.
Prior excavations at Dion have already revealed two theatres, a stadium, and shrines to a variety of gods, including Egyptian deities Sarapis, Isis and Anubis, whose influence in the Greek world grew in the wake of Alexander's conquest of Egypt." End quote.

It sort of answers it all doesn't it?

it's more complicated than that

[Trepidity]

Whether Alexander was Greek depends on what you consider Greek. You're correct that there is a distinction between classical Greeks (i.e. Athenians, Spartans, and others) and classical Macedonians. However, modern Greeks are actually in large part descendents of Macedonians and Hellenized non-Greeks; it's not as if modern Greeks are somehow purebred descendents of ancient Athenians.

To the extent that the Macedonian Empire created much of what would become the "Hellenic World", Alexander was certainly Greek almost definitionally.

Re:Difference

[ale3ns]

I don't know about those provinces and the history of them so I don't have an honest opinion. But, the case here is that FYROM is claiming a macedonian nationality. This would complicate things when you already have 1.000.000 people in your country calling themeselves macedonians and claiming they are Descendants of Alexander, yet beleive their ancestors where Greek and have nothing to do with FYROM. So recognizing A "Republic of Macedonia", is telling these people that either they are not "macedonian" or they have something to do with FYROM. The recent US State department's statement of a "macedonian minority" in Greece just complicates the matter. To be fair, there are people from FYROM living in Greece (i guess), but I doubt they are even 1.000 in number. But you see how this can get complicated. (Like when you say macedonian minority, what exactly are you talking about? Both sides call themeselves macedonians..). The "North" part of the proposed name would determine them geographically and let history be what historians make of it. And generally speaking, let each side beleive what it wants...

I personally think both countries are caught up in other's geopolitical games. But that's just my opinion. Greece is heavily investing in FYROM so the ground of a good relationship is their. We just have to stop trying to relate everything with history which you can interpretate as you like and find a solution that benefits both sides...

Re:News for Nerds?

[nwbvt]

On a more serious note,

Would it be possible to create a new 'history' topic to post stuff like this under? I mean currently its listed under 'Science', and I don't think the Einstein picture is really relevant. I'm not saying it isn't interesting, just that it can be classified better.

Off by 8 centuries...

[voteforkerry78]

"Bronze coins from the period of Theodosius, the 4th-century AD Byzantine Emperor who abolished the ancient Olympic Games, were also found hidden inside the wall." Sort of an important detail, don't you think?