Slashdot Mirror
Xbox Live Needs MMOG Overhaul
GamesIndustry.biz has a discussion with Arena.net cofounder Jeff Strain. During the course of the interview, Strain states that he considers Xbox Live imperfect for MMOG titles. From the article: "Their whole goal is to encourage people to go and buy games on the shelf, then there's an online component for it ... But for us, when you buy it on the shelf, that's just the beginning of our relationship with you - and we want a direct connection with our customer so that we're always giving you new content, always supporting you directly. Xbox Live just wasn't really built, from a business standpoint, to support that." Relatedly, Guild Wars' World Championships were recently held. eToyChest has a few words on the Korean dominance of the event.
AKA You want more money per month ON TOP OF what Xbox Live players are already paying, and the business model is not currently set up.
MMORPG (which is the very large bulk of MMOG out there) isn't mentioned in the summary or the article (by what I skimmed). I wonder if this is to deter comments about "howabout an RPG in the first place?".
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Which apparently they are developing for.
I for one, welcome our MMORPG masters.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I'm assuming that he is reffering to things like hosted in-game events??? Eposodic content and downloads are already built in, but maybe not realtime interaction from an administrator level. I'm sure it is possible since FFIX is on the 360, but maybe more difficult than it has to be.
I wish he was a little more specific in his comments...
When I first read the title, I figured it was going to be Square-Enix bitching about how Live interferes with their insanely shitty PlayOnline service (PlayOnline essentially being the Square-Enix version of Live, just without, like, being useful).
Instead they're just complaining about - actually, I'm not really sure. It sounds like they're complaining that Microsoft is involved with Live, or something. Something about wanting a more direct relationship with the customer? I honestly have no idea what he's complaining about.
Even though we all know that PlayOnline sucks (they should have just used Live), it proves at the very least that it is possible to run an MMORPG through Live. I have no idea what he's complaining about.
I thought this was why Microsoft allows people to play MMOGs with just a "Silver" level subscription to Live on the XBox 360. Well, that, and they want you to pay for the MMOG on top of your normal "Gold" level subscription.
"the Korean dominance of the event"
In Korea only old people play MMOGs.
Insert Generic Sig Here:
and we want a direct connection with our customer so that we're always giving you new content, always supporting you directly.
Until the service is no longer profitable, in which case our "connection" with you gets upgraded to level "fuck you."
Xbox live charges a fee. Arena.net does not, and focuses on providing new content to generate income. Xbox is also designed to play a game on a disc, Arena.net's Guild Wars has contantly updated content, ie. the new content from Factions is already located on most people who play GW's hard drive. It just needs to be unlocked by purchasing a key when it's released. The store bought disc model is rapidly fading in the MMOG world. Xbox thrives on this "old" model, and is designed with it in mind.
Microsoft has had a nasty habit in the original XBOX Live service of charging its customers no less than $5.00 for the most trivial of content updates. Though to be honest, I don't know why an MMORPG would want to use the XBOX Live infrastructure when they already have their own proprietary infrastructure. Short of letting others know a GamerTag has their 360 turned on and logged into XBOX 360, the rest of the XBOX Live crap is just a nusiance to developers and subscribers. I'd be really frustrated if everytime I started Generic MMORPG X on my 360 I had to login to XBOX Live, select an in-game menu "check for updates," which like all other XBOX Live titles boots you out of the game into the XBOX Live Marketplace, where you have to restart the game countless more times before you can actually play it.
If you follow the link to the full interview, he just used LIVE as an example , his comments were about "consoles" in general.
= 14931
So, there need to be some changes in the business model, and we're keeping an eye on the technology - but we love console games, and I'd love to see Guild Wars on an Xbox [360] or a PlayStation 3.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid
It only recognized Xbox 360 games if you want to set up a gamer profile on xbox.com. I wanted to track my BattleFront kills and such. The whole Live Arcade thing is dumb, too. Most of those games or something like them can be played at Shockwave.com.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
Albert says...
As an avid Guild Wars player and fan of ArenaNet and its roots, I know what Strain is getting at.
Implementing an MMO on Xbox Live requires a break in continuity from the generic and limited "live-enabled" template, which has only been updated to add "no duh" features they had left out like voice chat from the Dashboard and voice messages. At its core, the current iteration of Live is basically indistinguishable than what you got in terms of online play from MechAssault or Crimson Skies.
Three companies have been able to break away from the template:
1. Electronic Arts: This was mainly so MS could attract more software sales to its console, but EA's developers could do some interesting things with it. For example, in TimeSplitters: Future Perfect you were able to upload and trade your maps from the mapmaker over EA's central server. Sometimes you could actually find servers that played the most popular mapmaker maps.
2. Square-Enix: I don't know a lot about PlayOnline, but Square-Enix wouldn't have pushed for it if they didn't need it, or at least make things easier for them.
3. Microsoft itself (see Bungie): Halo 2 completely disregards the Xbox Live template in favor of matchmaking. Also, stuff like Conquest mode in MechAssault 2 broke the mold, although Conquest was very poorly integrated into XBL and it was impossible to find any matches.
Follow the money trail. Microsoft let EA use its network because the Xbox needs the sales of EA's online games, let Square-Enix use PlayOnline just to get FFXI on their console (and maybe develop a relationship for future FF releases?) Of course, Microsoft has broken its own template because as the developer and publisher they're the only ones who profit if the break is successful (see Halo 2.) Even with what Microsoft stood to gain from the deal with EA, the two still fought tooth and nail for years before Microsoft finally gave in.
This leaves smaller developers and publishers who actually need freedom from a template best-suited to action games between a rock and a hard place. The download-as-you-play updating technology in Guild Wars allows ArenaNet to add to or change anything in the world with a snap of their fingers without the need for a patch. For the record, they've used this ability heavily--they've added a whole new area with dozens of unique items to farm, changed the theme of many the major cities to celebrate the Halloween and Christmas seasons including special items and quests, and added the ability to view replays of the top guilds' PvP matches. Also noteworthy is that they've given players all of this content with the irresistable subscription plan of $0 per month. Also, as far as I know, matchmade ladder competition isn't possible on Xbox Live unless you're playing Halo 2, which would make events like the Guild Wars World Championship impossible to seed over Live. Thus, over Xbox Live, Strain's "close relationship with the customer" goes out the window from creative, technical, and commercial standpoints.
Overall, I'd say the Xbox Live is a good service for what it is, but the fact that some developers and publishers need to fight to supplement/circumvent Xbox Live indicates that Live does have limitations. Microsoft's absolutist attitide towards running their online service stifles creativity, and it's keeping many developers away.
To really be an MMO all the players have to be in the same worlds, at least most of the time.
Rubbish. That was the root of the whole problem in traditional MMOs like EverQuest, and thank goodness it's on its way out.
You'd set out to play with your own team, and instead you'd get KS'd by others, stopped from playing because your chosen area was camped, and constantly killed by having mobs trained on you by morons. It wasn't pleasant.
GW keeps the "Massively" where only it's needed, in other words in the towns where you recruit people and socialize and form teams. Everywhere else all those extra people are just a pain in the bum, make everything laggy, and just ruin the game.
And what's more, GW is more "Massively" than any other MMO, because everyone lives in the same world instead of being split off onto different games servers.
So your whole comment is arse about face.
I dont understand what hes asking for.
Live allows additional content. It allows for support. Nothing hes saying cant be done in the present system. Add to that the fact that he neither has a game on Live nor is planning one for live and I have to wonder what exactly is the point of this at all?
Not only are his comments vague they are also counter to the fact that square is already accomplishing what he wants and Final Fantasy XI is already working on live ready for full release.
Maybe hes talking with the other consoles in mind but its very unlikely they would have any problems either. I can only assume that some site picked up on some musings he was making and threw it up online.
Actualy Arena.net's only game to date, Guild Wars, requires only taht you buy the initial game, then you can play it online forever, with no aditional costs. They continue to support the game with very frequent patches, and there has been a little bit of new content, i believe. They are going to be releasing numerous optional "mission packs", with massive ammounts of new content, to continue getting money from consumers.
My hand touched her hand. Her hand touched her boob. By the transitive property, I got some boob! Algebra is awesome!