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Interview with California Air Resources Board CIO

SilentBob4 writes "Mad Penguin has published an exclusive interview with the CIO of California's ARB (Air Resources Board), Bill Welty." From the article: " Massachusetts might have been the FOSS shot heard 'round the world, but California may be quietly building pressure for an open source earthquake of its own. On the face of it, the California Air Resources Board (ARB) is not setting the world on fire with its well-documented adoption of free open source software. It is using FOSS primarily in the back office, just like so many other governmental agencies and businesses. But if you dig just a little deeper, as shown in this Mad Penguin(TM) interview of the ARB staffers responsible for moving ARB toward a more FOSSy future, you can see that the seeds of more profound change gradually developing. "

59 comments

  1. Metaphor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SilentBob4, your metaphors make my head ache, almost as if I had been hit by a chair angrily thrown by a bald guy...

  2. The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by Spazntwich · · Score: 1, Funny

    These are the same idiots you can thank for making such things as ANY modification to any car illegal unless it has CARB approval and a sticker.

    Yes, even a cold air intake, or any sort of aftermarket exhaust, even though both modifications to cars generally INCREASE a car's gas mileage and effeciency.

    Given their track record, their use of OSS is only going to allow them to be more effecient in their ability to make and enforce more stupid policies. We cannot allow this. Californians, write to your representatives and tell them to DEMAND the ARB use only Microsoft software.

    1. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by AJWM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually it's those representatives you're suggesting everyone write to who are the ones making non-CARB approved mods illegal. They're the ones writing the legislation.

      If ARB operates more efficiently, surely they'll be able to put mods through the approval process faster?

      --
      -- Alastair
    2. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by Spazntwich · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, I see you're experimenting with those newfangled things I've heard about. What're the names? "Logic" and "reason?"

      Well listen here, son. We don't want your kind here. We make kneejerk posts and moderations, and that's the way we like it.

    3. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by sp0rk173 · · Score: 1

      I, for one, like the ARB. We have the shittiest air in the nation here in california (See Here and here), so we need stricter rules than other states. I mean, it's not like they OUTLAW all after market modifications. I mean, hell, where I live there almost isn't a single truck without a modified exhaust or intake system. Cars are constantly modified up the shitter all over California. The CARB is just making the sure modifications don't fuck up the air even more. That, in my mind, is not a bad thing and is necessary when you cram so many people into such a small place.

    4. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by rodgster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Aren't these the idiots that allowed MTBE (methyl t- butyl ether) to be used as an oxygenate. It was implemented at a huge cost that was .... drum roll please.... passed on the the consumers. This heralded in gas prices higher than anywhere in the country.

      Oh and now we find that the low molecular weight ether is water soluble (known all along) and is ..... drum roll please ...... polluting water supplies and now it is no longer being used.

      Why didn't these fools mandate that ethanol be used? Oh because it is biomass produced and a renewable resource. Well, we can't have people thinking they can grow gas for their cars when the asshats in charge are in the pocket of the petroleum industry.

      I say tar & feather these fools and ride them outta town on a rail.

      http://www.energy.ca.gov/mtbe/

      --
      Who will guard the guards?
    5. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by ahfoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is such a frustrating topic for a person who works on old cars it's hard for me to even address it without going into seizures and throwing the keyboard against the wall.
              There is a huge problem with your "I heart CARB" sentiment if you really do want cleaner air. Yeah, sure you can buy overpriced aftermarket stuff that is CARB approved. But what you can't do is adapt used modern cleaner technology onto an older car by upgrading to more efficient used technology. See, that "used" part is extremely important in the reality of car parts.
              The problem isn't with people who are buying overpriced aftermarket stuff that gets the CARB approval. After all, people who can afford that crap probably have newer cars and then have a hobby car they hardly ever drive. They're not the polluters. The polluters are the folks driving old beaters on a day-today basis that can't afford that stuff. Those are the people that are shit out of luck. It is simply not the case that these people get rid of their cars becaue of these regulations. Au contraire, they are forced by the regulations to stick with the original outdated equipment if they want to have their cars running at a price they can afford. That economic reality that CARB glosses over is the real source of pollution.
              If you were to allow that segment of the market to "upgrade" using used parts you would see genuine improvements in air quality. Far more efficient parts for older cars are available in spades at prices that make them extremely attractive to owners of older cars.
                Take the example of an older car that uses a carburetor instead of EFI. In many cases there is no technical reason a mechanic could not upgrade that older car to EFI at a price even cheaper than rebuilding the carb by grabbing an EFI from a newer model out of a junkyard. The reason it can't be done is not technical, it is regulatory. Hence, carburetors are still being rebuilt by the tens of thousands. How does that help clean the air?

    6. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CARB and the EPA and the auto makers are trying to kill the automotive aftermarket and the ability of people to work on their own cars. It is not about pollution, it is about control. If it was about pollution, the rule would be - stick a sensor in the tail pipe, run the car on the dyno and read the emissions - not check for "altered parts" etc. That is the way it is(was) done in Santa Fe, NM and the vehicle got a safety inspection at the same time - brakes, lights, etc. The hobby of working on/creating your own cars is dead in California, but still alive in other states - you should see what cool things people build as "tundra buggies" in AK or rock climbers in the South - and yeah they are safe and generally low emissions.

      What CARB doesn't want people to know, is that an older vehicle with an MSD http://www.msdignition.com/ or other aftermarket ignition system often actually runs cleaner than a stock older (mid 1980s) american model. OBD and OBD II are again about control, not pollution. Black boxes that record pre-crash info are common, ONSTAR cars can now report monthly to "you" about how they are feeling via the manufacturer/ONSTAR. It is sick stuff.

      More info:
      http://www.hagerty.com/NewsManager/templates/templ ate_adv.aspx?articleid=1&zoneid=3

      http://www.galaxieclub.com/sema_flyer.html

    7. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Another thing that makes me glad I'm not in a state that is a victim of CARB is that diesels, which can help end our dependence on oil, aren't allowed in CARB states.

      Why? Nitrogen oxides.

      The funny thing is, studies are showing that the nitrogen oxides actually... wait for it... *REDUCE* ozone in areas like California, especially those from diesels.

      Also, diesels last longer (less junkyard space taken, less energy used and pollution created recycling them, less energy used and pollution created making the replacement car), are much more fuel efficient than gassers, degrade in emissions much more gracefully than gassers, and oh, yeah, do that whole biodiesel thing.

      CARB can go suck on a tailpipe.

    8. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      For the EFI to work properly, the old engine and newer engine would have to be exactly the same. And if that's the case, why not move the whole thing over? You can swap a newer complete engine setup into an older car, as long as all stock pollution controls from the newer car also move over.

    9. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by theLOUDroom · · Score: 1

      Futhermore California mandates both what you can do under your own hood AND tailpipe testing.

      If something you do to your car is making it pollute MORE than is allowed, it is going to show up during the tailpipe test. If you do something that makes it pollute LESS, then you'll pass the tailpipe test, but still be subject to all sorts of ridiculous penaties and you fail the visual inspection.

      Part of the problem with rules like this is also that they don't take into accout the air pollution caused by MAKING cars. By making poeple abandon their old vehicle sooner than is actually necessary, they may actually be INCREASING air pollution.

      --
      Life is too short to proofread.
    10. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by ahfoo · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm not going to pretend I know all things about all motors. But you are definitely wrong when it comes to my particular area of expertise which is the Toyota R series. The reason I like the R series motors so much is precisely because the same engine was used across platforms (trucks and Celicas have identical motors) over several decades and you most certainly can take a fuel injector from a late model and directly bolt it onto an older head. No problemo. You can even mix and match heads across different displacement blocks. Google for 20R head on a 22R block it if you're interested.
                  So no problem there. Well, just one little bitty problem which is that it is illegal in California because of CARB's visual inspection requirements. Just that little minor issue. It's fucking insane. See, I'm getting pissed just thinking about it.

    11. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by triffid_98 · · Score: 1

      The whole CARB system is illogical if the stated purpose (reducing smog) is the real one. If the tailpipe emissions are acceptable, who cares what's under the hood? Oh yes, that's right, CARB does. Personally I'm of the opinion that CARB has more to do with the auto industry lobby than anything else. If something smog related breaks in your 76' lincoln and the only option is an OEM unit that hasn't been available for at least a decade, chances are good that you'll be going car shopping.

    12. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      True, you can't mix-and-match parts. However, you can transplant an entire 20R engine, including computer and all emissions equipment, from the newer car to the older car. You have to get it refereed, and it's my understanding that you'll be flagged for "test-only" stations for the remaining life of the vehicle, but it can and has been done.

    13. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      And it's stupid that you have to go through this hell for a '77 Lincoln, but a '72 Lincoln can fire pure fuel out the tailpipes and be completely legal.

    14. Re:The ARB is the worst example of this ever. by Bug-Y2K · · Score: 1

      >> CARB can go suck on a tailpipe.

      They're welcome to come suck on my tailpipe, as it is mostly WVO (waste veggie oil) emissions and is unlikely to have any ill affect.

      CARB really needs to reconsider their death sentence on Diesel-fueled vehicles. Especially now that the droughts of the late 80s/early 90s are gone since rain reduces Diesel particulates to very low levels, unlike gasoline emissions.

  3. Re:long-schlong silver! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nnice

  4. Vaudville awaits you by Quirk · · Score: 2, Funny
    I'm not one to nit pic mainly cause I like to sling slang too but the imagery and gridlocked metaphors here are just too much to pass up.

    the FOSS shot heard 'round the world

    quietly building pressure for an open source earthquake

    On the face of it

    setting the world on fire

    if you dig just a little deeper

    the seeds of more profound change gradually developing.

    I'd like to try to compete but I'm just not up to it.

    Well done and thanks for the laughs

    --
    "Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
    Cohen
    1. Re:Vaudville awaits you by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 1

      Jesus Christ. What have I started?

    2. Re:Vaudville awaits you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By "gridlock" metaphors, did you mean those suggesting:

      foreplay
      orgasm
      bukkake
      conception

      (though not in that order)

      Uh oh, have I gone and read naughty things where I shudn't have again?

  5. Flighty CARB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If they'd stuck with the Zero Emissions Vehicle mandate, then back in 2003, 10% of vehicles sold in California would have been electric cars. Instead they gave in to the pressure from GM and Ford, and all we have are a handful of hybrid vehicles.

    I don't think we can trust them to stick with FOSS measures. The pressure from Microsoft and other closed source shops will again be too much for CARB to take.

    1. Re:Flighty CARB by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      How many cars does 10% of new cars sold in California in one year represent? Do you really think that many people want an all electric car?

    2. Re:Flighty CARB by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      Yes, and thanks to all those electric vehicles, the pollution would have been transferred from being distributed all over the roads by many tailpipes, to being concentrated in a few power station chimbleys. It still takes the same amount of energy to move a car whether it comes from an onboard fuel-burning engine or a remote fuel-burning engine.

      Still, with a little luck, the economies of centralised power generation {scale, and not having to lug fuel around with you from place to place} might offset some of the losses incurred in distribution and the charging/discharging cycle.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    3. Re:Flighty CARB by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1
      also, power station chimney stacks don't vent directly into the personal space of the general population of a city. (you'd hope.)

      Plus an electric car could be augmented with it's own solar panels. The surface area of panels on all those cars would be a heck of a lot. If you covered the equivalent area of land there would be uproar.

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    4. Re:Flighty CARB by Popcorn+Dave · · Score: 1
      Hell, at 6'5" I'd settle for a car I could fit in. There are probably 3-4 cars that I can actually fit in without my head hitting the roof. One of those is a Touareg. The others seem to be pickup trucks. Oh, unless I want one of those Toyota Land Tanks, but they don't come with any munitions for my daily commute so that's out.

      I'd buy an electric car in a heartbeat if I could actually fit in one and not feel like I was in a clown car and have it go more than 60 miles without having to recharge the bugger.

    5. Re:Flighty CARB by theLOUDroom · · Score: 1

      Still, with a little luck, the economies of centralised power generation {scale, and not having to lug fuel around with you from place to place} might offset some of the losses incurred in distribution and the charging/discharging cycle.

      Don't forget the reduced energy desity of batteries. A vehicle with a 500 mile range on electric power is going to weigh a LOT more than a gas powered vehicle. It costs energy to move all that weight.

      And then there's also the issue of disposing of hundreds of pounds of batteries every few years. Nobody really seems to think about that one much. 100 pounds of batteries per year, per vehicle (ballpark estimate) is a pretty significant amount of chemical waste. I don't see people factoring in the environmental cost of that.

      People like to prented electric cars are the solution to all our problems, but I really see them as just shifting the environmental costs elsewhere.

      Still, they may be successful. It will be much easier for richer communities to shift their portion of the pollution to poorer ones. (Try building a coal power plant in Beverly Hills.)

      --
      Life is too short to proofread.
    6. Re:Flighty CARB by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      And then there's also the issue of disposing of hundreds of pounds of batteries every few years. Nobody really seems to think about that one much. 100 pounds of batteries per year, per vehicle (ballpark estimate) is a pretty significant amount of chemical waste. I don't see people factoring in the environmental cost of that.
      Lead-acid batteries, despite their reputation, are actually 100% recyclable. Lead is a valuable enough resource that it's never not worth the effort of recovering it. Dilute sulphuric acid isn't really all that severe a pollutant anyway, and the battery housings are made from high-density polyethylene or polypropylene -- which can be melted down and reused, or burned cleanly.

      In open-vented configuration, these batteries are also amazingly tolerant of abuse by the standards of any other rechargeable battery technology. Which is why they are still used to power things like submarines and telephone exchanges.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  6. Setting the world on fire? by brusk · · Score: 2, Funny

    That really shouldn't be within the purview of the Air Resources Board.

    --
    .sig withheld by request
  7. Good FUD piece by DogDude · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It would probably be more convincing if it wasn't on a site called "madpenguin", which has all of the credibility of my little sister's blog.

    Also, they went a bit overboard on the FUD, too: "In the eleven years we've been doing open source, we have not, in my view, had one failure in applying open source solutions." Wow. These guys must be the best IT staff on the planet, if they haven't (in his view), "had a single failure in (applying) open source solutions".

    Also, you're not going to find any intelligent IT person slamming Microsoft, specifically. The OS isn't important, anymore. Nobody who has two brain cells gives a shit about the OS. That's piddly stuff for large companies. It'd be more believable if he was talking about his database or CRM applications.

    And, the piece-de-resistance: "It's been difficult to move off of Windows and Oracle and move onto Linux, but most applications have been migrated over to Linux-Apache-MySQL and PHP (LAMP)." This actually made me laugh out loud... replacing Oracle with MySQL.

    C'mon guys, if you're going to go through all of the trouble to manufacture FUD, at least work on the story a bit more. You guys hit all of the major FUD sensors!

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Good FUD piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And, the piece-de-resistance: "It's been difficult to move off of Windows and Oracle and move onto Linux, but most applications have been migrated over to Linux-Apache-MySQL and PHP (LAMP)." This actually made me laugh out loud... replacing Oracle with MySQL.
      From TFA:
      "Initially we used Oracle database and the Oracle web server software to do our database applications across the web. "

      Given the stated use, replacing Oracle with MySQL doesn't seem that funny. Perhaps I'm humor impaired.

    2. Re:Good FUD piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Given the stated use, replacing Oracle with MySQL doesn't seem that funny. Perhaps I'm humor impaired.

      I agree Oracle web server isn't as good as Apache. But for anything really important or really big that's being accessed and updated a whole bunch, Oracle is leaps and bounds ahead of MySQL. It's really expensive and overkill for most stuff, but for something like government records for a state with tens of millions of people, I'd trust Oracle over MySQL anyday.

    3. Re:Good FUD piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, you're not going to find any intelligent IT person slamming Microsoft, specifically. The OS isn't important, anymore. Nobody who has two brain cells gives a shit about the OS.

      Well, if you're running machines which have to be constantly patched, more than once a month, to keep up with the latest infection vectors, which have to run anti-virus software constantly in the background to ensure they aren't infected. Machines where you are charged on a per processor license for the OS. Why wouldn't the OS which causes you all that pain come into the equation?

    4. Re:Good FUD piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey went a bit overboard on the FUD

      Kind of like spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt about losing your job because of OSS?

    5. Re:Good FUD piece by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      First, FUD isn't the word you want to apply here.

      Second, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

      They haven't had a failure in applying an open source solution to a problem.

      So, they need a database. They might not have been able to get X, Y or Z package working. But Open Source Database W works just fine for them. That's a success. They successfully applied open source to a problem.

      Get it?

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
  8. Living in California. by CCFreak2K · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Nothing reminds me of living in California more than seeing the smog cast over Sacramento and Roseville as I descend down i80 commuting to college.

    --
    "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
    1. Re:Living in California. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What college did you go to? ARC?

    2. Re:Living in California. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing reminds me of living in California more than seeing the smog cast over Sacramento and Roseville as I descend down i80 commuting to college.

      Cool dude. What are you driving?

    3. Re:Living in California. by sp0rk173 · · Score: 1

      Have you been down to Riverside? Now that's smog!

    4. Re:Living in California. by SoCalChris · · Score: 1

      No kidding, as you're coming down the road from Big Bear, it looks like a giant grey blanket has been put over Riverside.

      That's just one of the many reasons that I don't miss California in the least. Dealing with the CARB on my older cars I restore is another reason I don't miss it there.

    5. Re:Living in California. by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      Strangely enough, the area from Crestline to Big Bear is often tied with Upland for the worst air quality in Southern California during the summer. Air pollution is often more than meets the eye.

  9. Re:Beat a penguin to death. by MonteCarlo · · Score: 0

    I hate to seem like I'm starting a beating of a dead horse, but what was this coward thinking when he posted this garbage. NotCowboyNeal

  10. I put up with a lot of made up words on /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But "FOSSy"? Please.

  11. Actually... by alphasubzero949 · · Score: 1

    You did say "gridlocked" and since this is California we're talking about here, you may actually have been on to something after all.

  12. Free Carpool Access by alphasubzero949 · · Score: 1

    Do you really think that many people want an all electric car?

    If owning them means being able to pimp them out with carpool lane access stickers, they will buy.

    1. Re:Free Carpool Access by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      What is that assertion based on? Did you survey car owners?

  13. CARB can do it, why not schools. by ahfoo · · Score: 1

    No question mark because it's a rehetorical question. I saw this as an interesting confirmation of my theory that the last place we'll see FOSS is in the schools. I find it fascinating that the earliest adopters of fOSS are in the business community. No surprise there, business is cut-throat. You've got to take every advantage you can. The first wave f public sector adoption is taking place in governmental administative agencies. Again no surprise. As the article pointed out even the Governator was pushing agencies to make the move to cut costs. But the last place we'll ever see FOSS is in the schools. It will get there eventually, and that will be check-mate but it will be the last move on the board as is appropriate for a check-mate.
                What I find so intriguing is that I see this comclusion as an inevitable outcome of the culture of open source development. Why do people develop open source after all? For many, certainly not all but a substantial proportion, it's simply a matter of pride. In open source, anybody can jump to the front. Everybody wants to be a kernel hacker and anything that isn't written in C, C++ or at least Java is considered a trivial aside. I'm not saying that's wrong. Quite the contrary, that's right and the success of FOSS is the best proof that this is indeed the right way to do things. Dumbing it down is dumb after all. But that hot-shot look at my mad skillz approach doesn't fit into education. The irony of education is that it's actually about dumbing things down and that's tedious boring work that few people are going to appreciate.
              What was supposed to happen in the closed source world of education was that the teachers were going to be given a set of tools to create their own content since they were the ones in the trenches who knew how to create relevant content. Originally, Macromedia thrived on this market with products like Director and Authorware. Unfortunately, those tools were all very expensive and teachers didn't see any motivation to make it work as there was no compensation for even working with those "simplified" tools. The result was that a few large companies began to dominate the educational content market and now the market for educational technology is completely owned. Prying it out of the grips of the owners is only going to happen when open source versions of those early tools are put into the classrooms that teachers can actually use and when teachers are compensated for creating content using those tools.
            It can be done, but I'm telling ya, it's going to be the last place we'll see the success of FOSS. Furthermore, when it does happen it will be the beginning of the end of schools as we know them which is undoubtedly a good thing.

    cue Pink Floyd. . .

  14. Air Processing by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    I really don't see why nobody has thought of this. In cities, you have known times of day when there are going to be many vehicles chuffing out waste products. So accept this as inevitable. Instead of trying to minimise what is coming out of vehicles, try mitigating the effects of what has already come out of vehicles. Build air ducts in the roadway, leading to a purification plant: draw in the fumes, filter out the nasty stuff with cyclones, chemicals, activated charcoal, electrostatic precipitation and any other methods necessary, and pump out cleaner air at a higher level. The plant only needs to be running when traffic is dense -- either on a time switch, or some kind of "dirtostat".

    If you think this sounds a little crazy, just remember: so did the idea of treating sewage before dumping it into rivers and the sea, the first time anybody proposed it.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:Air Processing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't need to do that - the tech exists to coat radiators with a catalytic coating that will clean the air as you drive.
      http://www.engelhard.com/documents/1999-01-3677.pd f

      If they took the money they spend on sucking up to oil companies (and car companies http://www.evadc.org/news.html ) and handing over pollution credits to them http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/4682 9/article.html http://www.houstonmopars.org/noscrap.html and trying to kill the hobby of automotive work... ...then we could easily have a state full of NEVs (Negative Emission Vehicles) - the state could retrofit existing vehicles with the new radiators.

      But the politicos would never do that, just like Arnie et al pussed out on the big solar bill that he could have signed when he first took office http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/stor y?id=36390 - it would have put California far ahead in terms of distributed solar PV usage. No politicians have the guts to do something on the order of the "National Defense Highway System" http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/nd hs.htm , Rural Electrification System, Golden Gate Bridge, Hetch Hetchy, etc.

  15. Ready-made pool of expertise by ishmalius · · Score: 1

    It would behoove the state of California to base its servers in the San Jose area. Would provide a base of employees with expertise beyond the state's needs, and would provide jobs to some of the laid-off-from-the-slump Linux experts.

    1. Re:Ready-made pool of expertise by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 1

      Aside from the sheer impracticality of moving operations from Sacramento to San Jose, do you really think that all of that expertise that you speak of will accept Civil Service wages?

  16. allowed? by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    Use of oxygenates was mandated by the Feds after some serious junk science from a single Winter trial of them in Seattla. It was not CARB's fault we used them.

    Ethanol sucks too, likely adding to pollution:

    http://feinstein.senate.gov/05releases/r-epa-oxyge nate030905.htm
    (Please ignore that this link is from one of our idiot spendthrift Senators, I'm sure she just slapped her name at the bottom and had nothing to do with it.)

    Because of this, CARB worked for years for the ability to return to making fuel with no oxygenates at all, and finally won it from the Feds a couple weeks ago. The cut over date isn't set, but it's great news.

    I dunno that MTBE was particularly expensive, nor is it the reason for the cost of fuels in California, since there are a dozen or something metropolitan areas in the country that are mandated to use oxygenates and MTBE was the one in popular use at the time.

    Our fuel is more expensive mainly because they can get away wth it. Fuel is noticeably more expensive in Northern California (esp. 5 years ago) versus Southern California. And the fuel is the same.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:allowed? by rodgster · · Score: 1

      I worked as a chemist in a Bay Area refinery at the time this was implemented.

      Building the "units" that created MTBE from raw materials at the refineries cost billions.

      This was >10 years ago. At the time urban areas of CA were the only ones mandated oxygenates. IIRC.

      MTBE was not mandated as "the" oxygenate to use. There were others. Among them EtOH (ethanol).

      That these idiots allowed MTBE to even be an option was stooopid.

      --
      Who will guard the guards?
  17. hypocrites by jafac · · Score: 1

    They want to use open source software, but they're opposed to open-source IC engines (ie. they support the "weld the hood shut, and treat shadetree mechanics like criminals" approach to enforcing automotive emissions controls).

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  18. they had retrofits in Australia... by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    They might have even been mandatory, I forget.

    Anyway, they could make a car "clean" by adding a retrofit oxygen sensor to the exhaust, adjusting the carb to run lean, and adding an "enrichment" fuel injector into the throttle body.

    The engine runs as it did before, but this added system adds the right amount of fuel at all times to keep it right at the best fuel/air ratio. It improves mpg and emissions on older cars. On some cars you could even add a catalytic converter to complete the job.

    Given that California doesn't even have car inspections (unlike, say, the east coast), I don't know what you're complaining about. Get what you want and put it on. Who's going to even catch you?

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    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:they had retrofits in Australia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that California doesn't even have car inspections

      Huh? I guess you aren't from California then. How do you think CARB enforces their regulations? The honor system? Having wrote that, I have heard people from NorCal say they didn't have inspections, but in SoCal they sure as hell do.

  19. having wrote that... by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    I've lived in San Jose, CA for 10 years.

    We don't have inspections, we just have emissions testing.

    I assure you the place you go to isn't going to look twice at your bolt-ons. If you pass emissions, you're done, even if you have non-CARB parts on your car. If you don't pass emissions, I don't have any sympathy for you.

    Compare this to east coast states, which inspect your car yearly or so for safety and compliance in ways other than emissions. They'll fail you for bald tires, cracked windshields, and I'm sure they'd check over your exhaust too if it was on the list.

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    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95