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More Classic Games To Hit Xbox Live

Several classic Midway games are slated to arrive on the Xbox Live arcade service sometime this year. The Gamespot article mentions Defender and Paperboy among the titles on the block. From the article: "'We've been generally surprised by the response rate...the paid downloads are more than we expected,' Midway CEO David Zucker told GameSpot. 'It's not going to change our economic success overnight, but it's a nice little business on the side, and we're glad that people are happy with the product.' Midway's chief executive also expressed interest in doing similar projects with the PlayStation 3 and Revolution, should they provide that functionality."

89 comments

  1. New ones. by mingot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They could use some more NEW games before they get too crazy with the classics.

    1. Re:New ones. by Eddy+Da+KillaBee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Amen. Lord knows most of us who spent the $300 or $400 probably haven't been too happy with our rather limited selection of games. Even the backwards-compatible game that would've kept me happy is technically no longer BC cause the last update screwed it up. I'm talking about Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory...

    2. Re:New ones. by elrous0 · · Score: 0, Troll
      What's the point of having new OR old games when you still can't buy the console?

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:New ones. by spideyct · · Score: 1

      Anyone that spent $300-400 already got exactly what they wanted: the right to say they own the current hot item. The list of available games was not a secret - if the games available were not worth it, then you wouldn't buy the system yet (assuming you do any research before dropping $300 on something).

      From what I hear, the classics and mini games ARE the best part of XBOX 360. So I think its great they are making more. To some people, a system that integrates nicely into their home entertainment system and plays classics/mini games IS worth the money.

    4. Re:New ones. by heli0 · · Score: 1

      There are finally quite a few coming.

      Scheduled in the next 4 weeks:

      The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
      College Hoops 2K6
      Burnout Revenge
      Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
      The Outfit
      Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
      Dynasty Warriors 5: Empires
      Rumble Roses XX
      Top Spin 2
      Far Cry: Instincts Predator

      --
      Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
    5. Re:New ones. by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      You can mod me down when you can walk into a Best Buy and actually BUY one.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  2. I wonder... by tekkou · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...are the sales of these games more than the actual xbox360 games?

    If so, what was the point of buying a 360 in the first place? Kind of a sign that gameplay > graphics. Developers take note!

    1. Re:I wonder... by tmjr3353 · · Score: 1

      Kind of a sign that gameplay > graphics. While I agree with you, there's something else at work here. From my experience, nostalgia > gameplay > graphics. I'm surprised they're so surprised by the success of offering people games from their childhood or at least younger days.

    2. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The download numbers that I've seen appear to be decent but there's a few reasons why they are popular:

      1. Quick games, you can play for 15 minutes and be satisfied

      2. They appear almost free - you pluck down $50 for XBox Live Points and you buy games with those points, but there is a definite disconnect with the money being transfered

      3. They aren't free but $6 is still a lot better than plucking down $60 for a new next gen game

      4. You can download them. With Namco Museum offering say 10 games for $20/$30 it seems crazy that people will download games for $6-$8 each but they will cuz you immediately get a new game w/o gettin my fat ass off the couch :)

    3. Re:I wonder... by dootbran · · Score: 1

      You've got to remember that Namco arcade probably has 2-3 games that you actually want to play while the rest you could do without. So spending 12-18 on the games you want might be better than spending 20-30 on the games you want and 7 others that you couldn't care less about.

  3. Paperboy... by Premo_Maggot · · Score: 1

    I was never able to remember where to throw the papers....

    --
    Good karma sticks to me like velcro on a piece of plexiglass.
    Move along, citizen.
    1. Re:Paperboy... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Every house but the red ones

    2. Re:Paperboy... by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to nail those dogs and the ladies wielding rolling pins. That way you can concentrate on the road.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    3. Re:Paperboy... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      I was always amused by Death appearing starting wednesday, thinking "fuck, this kid must like in a really bad neighborhood..."

    4. Re:Paperboy... by Premo_Maggot · · Score: 1

      on the original black and white gameboy that didn't help :\

      --
      Good karma sticks to me like velcro on a piece of plexiglass.
      Move along, citizen.
    5. Re:Paperboy... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      I thought it came out on nintendo first. That's the version I had...

    6. Re:Paperboy... by sho222 · · Score: 1

      it came out in the arcade first

    7. Re:Paperboy... by HiVizDiver · · Score: 1

      ... and had actual BMX bike handlebars as the controller, IIRC (complete with squishy rubber grips and everything!)

    8. Re:Paperboy... by Twisted64 · · Score: 1

      1. Windows 2. Car jack 3. Garage windows 4. Woman who lost runaway pram 5. At guy working on car engine 6. Anywhere but at the robbers 7. Church windows! (I loved those ones) 8. Sprinkler for secret wet bikini shot (in your mind) 9. Cars on the road.

      --
      Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
  4. Bad Choices Controller Wise by DeeSnider · · Score: 1

    Man, both those games suck without their original controller set-ups. I understand why Xbox would want them available. They're the kind of game you remember fondly and would probably plunk down $10 to download, but without the original control scheme, they both leave much to be desired. I doubt many people will be happy with that investment after the fact. I guess 720 will be next.

    1. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by KrisW · · Score: 1

      I guess 720 will be next.

      The Xbox or the game?

      (Sorry, couldn't resist)

      --


      "Think you can take me? Go ahead on. It's your move." --Joe Don Baker in Final Justice
    2. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 1

      Do those old games really cost $10? I imagine that more people would be willing to buy them if they were at half that price but it's hard for me to imagine people shelling out ten bucks unless it happened to be one of their all time favorites from that era. To each their own, I guess.

    3. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I bought metroid prime for $CDN 12.50 after tax used at EB. I can't possibly imagine paying $10 for a "classic" game. Maybe they should make them more like iTunes. $0.99 sounds like a fair price to me.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Paperboy is dependent on the controller for fun. I actually have a motorcycle controller for PS2 and Xbox, do Xbox controllers work on the 360? They were supposed to... But anyway, defender isn't. It was fun in the arcade, it was fun on the 2600 (best arcade conversion on the 2600 by a long shot) and it's fun on my Xbox in an emulator using a PS2 gamepad on an adapter. (Xbox controllers are pretty crappy for emulated games, not least because they have analog triggers instead of shoulder buttons, and if you play SNES games, you want shoulder buttons.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by Saige · · Score: 1

      The classic games have only been 400 points so far - $5. That's with included leaderboards and mutliplayer play over live. The latter is what really makes them worthwhile - being able to play with/against other people on XBL. I can play 4 player Gauntlet any time I feel like it, for example.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
    6. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      If I had a 360, I'd spend 20 or 30 bucks and buy one of the Midway classics discs for the original xbox. You get these games, plus another 20 other great (and some not so great) games.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    7. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by misfit13b · · Score: 1
      I disagree. I always thought the arcade handlebars were a needless gimmick that make a hard game even harder. There was always too much play, or some kid knocked them out of alignment, or something.

      And all 720s control was an analog stick, bent out to a 45 degree angle, right? That's not all that far off from modern controllers... albeit much smaller in scale.

    8. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by jinzumkei · · Score: 1

      Awww, did the big bad controller scare you?

      Seriously, I guess you've never tried playing them. So far all the arcade classics in XLA work great with the controller.

    9. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by drewmca · · Score: 1

      1. Defender sucked on Atari 2600. It was the most disappointing arcade conversion they ever did (well, besides pacman). I can understand now why they couldn't duplicate defender's vector graphics, but as a kid it was heart-wrenchingly disappointing.

      2. The xbox 360 controller does have shoulder buttons.

    10. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      Defender may have looked like crap, but the play was pretty damned good, especially for what a craptactular piece of equipment (compared to an arcade machine, of course) the 2600 was.

      I haven't even seen the Xbox 360 controller, except at range in Sears and Gamestop, but I believe you. Won't help me on my Xbox though. :)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, sir, annoy me.

    12. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by jinzumkei · · Score: 1

      Really? Wait, let me pull out my list of things I give a shit about and see if annoying you is on there....Nope!

    13. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by wolrahnaes · · Score: 1

      There are a few Xbox controllers that duplicate the layout of the 360 by placing the black and white buttons in the shoulder positions. I've seen them at Gamestop before.

      Almost bought a few, because my old big "duke" Xbox controllers are wearing out and I can't stand the placement of black and white on the "S" controller, but I picked up a 360 on a whim and the Xbox hasn't been turned on since, except to watch Xvid movies (XBMC = happiness)

      --
      I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    14. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by protektor · · Score: 1

      Defender the arcade game didn't have vector graphics. Defender had raster graphics. Take a look at Red Barron, Asteroids, Tempest, and some of the old Atari arcade games if you forget what vector graphics are. Better yet load up MAME and load the Defender ROMs if you forget how Defender looked.

    15. Re:Bad Choices Controller Wise by drewmca · · Score: 1

      well, they looked vector. At least how I remember them. But thinking about it, yeah, I guess you're right.

      They certainly looked sharper than anything that could be done on the 2600, though. I guess it was a matter of resolution.

  5. "The response is more than they expected" by dgrgich · · Score: 1

    Well, of course . . . new 360 games cost $60 bones. Also, let's not forget that the lineup of packaged games available for the box in the US is less than bigantic.

  6. It's nice... by casualsax3 · · Score: 1

    ... that it only took Microsoft 5 years to develope a $400 machine that's *almost* as useful as a Dreamcast.

    1. Re:It's nice... by fossa · · Score: 1

      NesterDC (NES emulator) is my favorite Dreamcast game; it was one of the main reasons I bought the thing in the first place. It would be nice to play Dr. Mario over a network though... one of the two games in which I was ever dominant (the other being Mario Tennis on N64); generally I suck at video games. Ah nostalgia.

    2. Re:It's nice... by rohlfinator · · Score: 1

      Hey now, you have to give Microsoft a little more credit than that...

      It was only four years. ;)

    3. Re:It's nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. But unlike Dreamcast, MS lame box gets posted to /. everyday. How's that for marketing?

  7. No good games? No problem. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Make ancient games available for download while we wait for the game corps to get their head out of their rear.

    But... could be me but... how is this different from using a C64 Emu (or an Amiga emu for those of you who really want the stunning graphics) to play those games? I mean, aside of having to register somewhere and send money some direction?

    Let's face it, in THOSE games, the graphics isn't really the selling point. M.U.L.E. anyone? Did it have graphics to splatter you across the wall? Nope. Did it have smooth scrolling? Did it have any?

    But it had something I sorely miss in today's games:

    Gameplay.

    The game managed to keep you playing for weeks, months, some for years. Not because you needed to unlock that very last piece of eye candy. How many games have you been playing lately only to get that very last item unlocked? Despite being bored stiff and wanting nothing but throw it against the wall but you did want to see that last goodie?

    Those games managed to keep you playing, for nothing more than yet another highscore that didn't change the game one bit.

    And still we played them for hours/weeks/months.

    So what do current games lack that they usually get boring after, say, a week?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:No good games? No problem. by agurk · · Score: 1

      It's Paperboy were talking about! No gameplay, no gfx, no hype - but it probably got some hypnotic mumbo jumbo in the works - which got everyone hocked. There is no resonable explanation why anyone want to ever play that game again.

    2. Re:No good games? No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still go back to Match Point on the Spectrum emulator and Shinobi on xmame. I've played Shinobi so many times I could almost finish the game without looking at the screen but I still enjoy it. Can't say the same of any recent PC game, but again I stopped using Windows in 1994. The Wipeout series on the PSX were close, but still not as addictive.

    3. Re:No good games? No problem. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      But it had something I sorely miss in today's games:

      Gameplay.

      The game managed to keep you playing for weeks, months, some for years. Not because you needed to unlock that very last piece of eye candy.


      No, you kept playing because there was nothing else and you didn't know better gameplay yet. Most old games had very rough gameplay with many critical flaws (problematic saving, instant death that cannot be avoided by means other than trial and error, hitboxes that were in no relation to the graphical representation, levels that were absolutely identical, missing an action in the early game can make finishing the game impossible, etc) that would get any game panned these days. But you didn't know anything better. People played Pong over and over again. Tell me, is Pong something you'd play for more than five minutes these days? The only reason people can dig these games up and not complain about what utter crap they are is because of nostalgia, you enjoy the memories of playing the game when you were younger along with other memories from the etime, not the actual game.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:No good games? No problem. by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      I agree. 100%.

      I've played all of these old games. I've been playing games for over 30 years.

      The games coming out now are BETTER than they were 10 years ago...20 years ago...

      It is only nostalgia that keeps people thinking those old games were better.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    5. Re:No good games? No problem. by rohlfinator · · Score: 1
      "No, you kept playing because there was nothing else and you didn't know better gameplay yet."
      While that's certainly the case for a lot of games, it's not always so cut and dried. There are still plenty of games from the 80's that have excellent gameplay by today's standards. The Mario Bros. titles, for instance, have sold millions of copies on the GBA, and they're still leagues above the average Game Boy title in terms of gameplay. (And as a personal anecdote, I never really played much of the original SMB games until the late 90's, when they were well over 10 years old. They were still amazing.) Remakes of the early Final Fantasy games have seen similar success. Dozens of "classics series" compilations still sell well, like the Mega Man and Sonic collections. These games generally aren't selling on nostalgia alone.

      I can't speak for M.U.L.E., as I've never played it, but it has been acclaimed in recent years by a lot of journalists. Perhaps everyone is blinded by nostalgia, or maybe it's just a good game.
  8. Defender. Best. Game. Ever. by brwski · · Score: 1

    Long live Defender! Eater of quarters! Sucker of time! How I miss thee, and how I loathe the latter-day attempts to modernize you. Long live Defender!

    --

    brwski
    "Because without beer, things do not seem to go as well''

  9. Who the hell would buy these? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    Who the hell would buy these? They've been available for free over the Internet (via MAME, etc.) for the better part of a decade.

    1. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

      Well...My Xbox is the only thing convienently connected to my projector...dont want to drag out the laptop and all the wiring that entails. The 13 year old way down inside me is in heaven playing Smash TV on an 8 foot screen...with an infinite supply of quarters! Especially since the demo lets you keep playing after a single nag screen. Defender is definately something I would be interested in.

    2. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the people who would buy them are the same people who buy music instead of illegally pirating it off the Internet.

    3. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by bogie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is an entire generation of people who don't know jack about classic arcade games and haven't ever played Pacman. I imagine for them it's quite exciting to see some of the classics. Just as an example, last summer at minigolf they had setup one of those multiarcade systems. Robotron was on there and I was on like level 5(hey, its a hard game), the kids watching me play were blown away by game and couldn't believe how manic it was. In short they were very impressed.

      Kids could care less about classic gaming until they have a chance to see it first hand ala Xbox live or some other way. That's why these games are becoming popular and people are paying for games that can be found for free. I'm both sad and happy at the same time that these "next-gen" systems are all falling back on classic gaming to make money.

      --
      If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    4. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by vertinox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who the hell would buy these? They've been available for free over the Internet (via MAME, etc.) for the better part of a decade.

      Same reason people buy music for iTunes.

      Its a bitch to spend hours searching the internet for roms and it isn't just because the SPA, RIAA, or MPAA has shut down the sites, but it is because most of the ROM places are nothing by malware, spam, and ultra porn popup sites with no real roms on them.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    5. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by fossa · · Score: 1

      It does make me stop and consider whether these games deserve copyright... Games from the 1980s would be at or nearing a 14 or 28 year copyright term expiration. Is the purpose of copyright to divert every possible penny to the author of a creative work? If not, then copyright should expire at some point. Someday, those who feel nostalgia for 1980s video games will die or be too arthritic to play. Should the copyright outlive them? Is it worth it to us as a society to protect these copyrights? It seems only recently have companies been cashing in on older games. Back around 2001 when I bought a Dreamcast to play NesterDC NES emulator, one couldn't buy the old games even if one wanted to (ingoring buying a used NES and used cartridges) as far as I knew. Only now do we have multipack games-in-a-controller, or this Xbox thing, or Nintendo's coming back catalog on Revolution. Was it worth it? Are we better off this way?

      P.S. ... The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President? --Bad Dudes

    6. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Kids could care less "

      Well that's good. The kids obviously care then.

    7. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by Senobyzal · · Score: 1

      I enjoy many of these games on MAME, but I'll probably also buy a few for the 360. A) It's only $5, B) Live integration means easy multiplayer via the Internet (like the Gauntlet example someone noted above), and C) It's nice to have something I can kick back on the couch in the living room and play either alone or with friends for 15 minutes.

    8. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by radish · · Score: 1

      The choice is:

      Download & install MAME
      Find, download & install ROM (and we all know how fun those ROM sites are, particularly for those unfamiliar with them)
      Play game (hopefully it works!) on PC at desk
      Hope you don't get sued for copyright infringement (unlikely, but you never know these days)

      -or-

      Pay $5
      Sit on couch & play game

      I'm going for the second option, you do as you please.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    9. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by PhotoBoy · · Score: 1

      I would agree with you, however MAME currently has a much wider choice of games. And if you have a modded Xbox1, the version of MAME for it can run just about everything that the PC version can.

      When I can get games like OutRun, Ms Pac-Man, TMNT, The Simpsons, Final Fight, Aliens, Chase HQ, R-Type etc on Live I'll consider the money vs MAME issue.

      Simpsons multi-player on Live would be really neat. With MAME I map all the characters to the same controls and play all 4 characters with the same set of keys, but playing with real people would be better. ;)

    10. Re:Who the hell would buy these? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Some people like to own legal copies of things.

      In an effort to *encourage* this sort of thing, I've bought every single classic games collection out there for my Xbox 1. (The best is the Sonic Mega Collection-- spent weeks playing those!) I'm still waiting for a company to release the best titles from the Commodore 64, but given how many C-64 game makers there were, and how many have gone out of business, that's not very likely.

      Still, you'd think EA, who was a major maker of C-64 games and still around, would release a collection.

  10. Here's an idea... by Winterblink · · Score: 1

    ... how about some NEXT GENERATION games? The 360 is turning out to be a great classic game machine, it's just unfortunate that's not what it was designed for.

    --
    "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
    -Hoban Washburn
  11. Already available on disc - cheap by Generic+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    These are the same titles you can get on their Treasures collection for under $20 ($12 used). http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=950 453/

    I don't know the status of "backwards somewhat-compatibility" of these on the Xbox360, but it sure seems the per-title cost on Live Arcade is pretty hefty given how cheap you can get authorized copies elsewhere.

    --
    { - Generic Guy - }
  12. TRANSLATION: We have no Killer Games by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    I think that we should all step back and see this announcement for what it truly is:

    a. an admission that there are no Killer Games that make anyone rush out to buy the xBox 360, and thus a stop-gap until someone can be convinced to do one;

    b. an admission that the competing next-gen platforms (PS3,NR) were wise to promote the use of older platform version games, and that this revival of older games for those platforms, but not for xBox360 for the most part, is really hurting MSFT on the revenue side (note: I own MSFT shares, so I want them to make revenue); and

    c. a desperate attempt to yank back mind share from the other platforms, which haven't even been shipped yet, but which seem to have large numbers of potential xBox360 owners (such as myself who owns an xBox) waiting until the PS3 and NR consoles are released before making a buying decision.

    Overall, not good. Spin it if you will, that's my gut feel. I usually make money from that.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:TRANSLATION: We have no Killer Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The announcement is from Midway, not Microsoft. You'd know that if you even read TFSummary. Do you make money if your gut feel is ignorant and sloppy too?

    2. Re:TRANSLATION: We have no Killer Games by radish · · Score: 1


      a. an admission that there are no Killer Games that make anyone rush out to buy the xBox 360, and thus a stop-gap until someone can be convinced to do one;

      How do you tally that with the fact that 360's are sold out pretty much everywhere? PGR3 is the best racing game ever (IMHO) and I bought mine just for that. Killer app in my opinion, but some people prefer others, and that's fine.

      b. an admission that the competing next-gen platforms (PS3,NR) were wise to promote the use of older platform version games, and that this revival of older games for those platforms, but not for xBox360 for the most part, is really hurting MSFT on the revenue side (note: I own MSFT shares, so I want them to make revenue); and

      That makes no sense at all. The XBL Arcade has been a heavily promoted part of the 360 "experience" from day 1 and they've always talked about playing classic old games on it as well as new casual games like Bejeweled or Hexic. Nintendo are focussed on back catalogue, which is fine, but I've not heard anything from the PS3 camp regarding downloadble games. Right now we don't even know if it will have storage to put them on, and judging from the PS2 online experience they have a LONG way to go to catch up with XBL.

      Additionally, XBL Arcade has been amazingly popular, and I'm sure is far from hurting revenue wise.

      c. a desperate attempt to yank back mind share from the other platforms, which haven't even been shipped yet, but which seem to have large numbers of potential xBox360 owners (such as myself who owns an xBox) waiting until the PS3 and NR consoles are released before making a buying decision.

      Fence sitters will always be fence sitters. The PS3 won't be out in the US this year (I don't care what Sony say, the writing's on the wall), the Rev maybe by the fall. In the meantime the 360 has plenty of big games coming : GRAW, Gears of War, Oblivion, etc. XML Arcade is great because it allows MS to put out a steady stream of smaller games to keep interest up between the lulls which always appear in a new platform's initial few months. I don't see it as "desperate" though, far from it.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    3. Re:TRANSLATION: We have no Killer Games by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      How do you tally that with the fact that 360's are sold out pretty much everywhere? PGR3 is the best racing game ever (IMHO) and I bought mine just for that. Killer app in my opinion, but some people prefer others, and that's fine.


      I tally that with the planned undershipment of xBox360's, as was detailed in the Wall Street Journal, which was used to create a crowd feel, and has worked quite nicely in maximizing profit per unit.

      Me, I don't like racing games, except maybe Mario Kart. Did too much real racing. Don't like FPS either, spent too much time with real weapons in the Army, so it tenses me up when I play those and I get too serious.

      Fence sitters will always be fence sitters. The PS3 won't be out in the US this year (I don't care what Sony say, the writing's on the wall), the Rev maybe by the fall. In the meantime the 360 has plenty of big games coming : GRAW, Gears of War, Oblivion, etc. XML Arcade is great because it allows MS to put out a steady stream of smaller games to keep interest up between the lulls which always appear in a new platform's initial few months. I don't see it as "desperate" though, far from it.


      As I said, I bought an xBox within 2 months of introduction, so I wouldn't call me a fence sitter, heck I've shelled out $10,000 on a server because I wanted it. And I got it a lot cheaper than people who bought it at release. I just don't see the point in buying a pretty box that doesn't play anything I need yet. When the other consoles come out, I'll decide which one(s) I want - own a GameCube and an xBox and probably five GBAs plus ten computers. But so far no killer games from my view, only cross-platforms, so no real need to buy a 360 yet.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:TRANSLATION: We have no Killer Games by radish · · Score: 1

      I tally that with the planned undershipment of xBox360's, as was detailed in the Wall Street Journal, which was used to create a crowd feel, and has worked quite nicely in maximizing profit per unit.
      You do that for a few weeks to create buzz. You don't keep doing it for months. There's no doubt MS had launch supply problems - they say is was a ram problem. They're losing money on sales right now - you better believe they're making those things as fast as they can. The system isn't in the (non-gaming) press anymore, the launch is over. And yet still, when shipments do arrive they fly off the shelves. There's demand out there, it's still there after 3 months of waiting, I'd say it's real.

      As I said, I bought an xBox within 2 months of introduction, so I wouldn't call me a fence sitter, heck I've shelled out $10,000 on a server because I wanted it. And I got it a lot cheaper than people who bought it at release. I just don't see the point in buying a pretty box that doesn't play anything I need yet. When the other consoles come out, I'll decide which one(s) I want - own a GameCube and an xBox and probably five GBAs plus ten computers. But so far no killer games from my view, only cross-platforms, so no real need to buy a 360 yet.

      And that's perfectly fair and reasonable. YOU don't see games that YOU want to play. Great. The problem comes when you spin that to mean that NO-ONE sees ANY games that ANYONE would want to play, which is patently false. My problem is not with people who dislike the 360, or the Rev, or any other system. My problem is with people who proclaim their own personal taste as universal. I haven't touched any of my other consoles since I got my 360, I love it, and the games on it, but that's my personal taste. I don't try and make out that I have some amazing insight into the "real" story.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

  13. Who the hell actually buys these by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Who the hell would buy these? They've been available for free over the Internet (via MAME, etc.) for the better part of a decade.

    The same people who pay 99 cents to have jokes text messaged to them, not groking that that means shelling out $365 bucks a year plus tax.

    plus

    The same people who pay $20 for a burger, when you can buy one at Dick's in Seattle for 99 cents.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Who the hell actually buys these by Saige · · Score: 1

      The same people who pay $20 for a burger, when you can buy one at Dick's in Seattle for 99 cents.

      You know, this isn't a bad analogy.

      Sure, you can download ROMs for free on the internet and play them on an emulator. But it takes work to find them, you have to be very careful not to get your browser hijacked from all the cram on most websites, and what you're doing isn't exactly legal. When I bought Robotron on XBLA for $5, it was easy to get a hold of it, it plays on my TV which is much bigger and has better speakers, controlling via the 360 thumbsticks is tons better than trying to play on the keyboard, and I get leaderboards and multiplayer play over Live. In other words, the additional features I get are worth $5 to me.

      And while I could drive to a Dick's in Seattle for a $.99 burger, there's not exactly one near me in Redmond. I also prefer burgers from other places - the 5 Alarm turkey burger at Red Robin, for example, or a $14 Kobe beef burger at the Issaquah Brewhouse - both burgers I like better, and am willing to pay for.

      Sometimes one experience is better enough than the other that you're willing to pay more.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
    2. Re:Who the hell actually buys these by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Sometimes one experience is better enough than the other that you're willing to pay more.

      So, you're the guy paying $100 for a Mariner's ticket while I get a $10 ticket from the UW HUB with equally good sight lines ...

      That said, I think having classic games is cool, I just don't think one should pay exhorbitant rates to play them.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:Who the hell actually buys these by Saige · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'm the gal that does neither of them because baseball isn't exciting to me. Though Hockey on the other hand - and there I'd pay more for an NHL game because I've seen those games, and I've see the Seattle T-Birds, and I know I'd much rather watch an NHL game in person.

      And remember, the classic games on the 360 aren't just emulated simple ports - all of them so far have had mutliplayer over Xbox Live, leaderboards, and achievements. You do get more with each one for your $5 than the simple version on the Midway collections that have been released. For some of us, that's worth it.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
    4. Re:Who the hell actually buys these by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'm the gal that does neither of them because baseball isn't exciting to me. Though Hockey on the other hand - and there I'd pay more for an NHL game because I've seen those games, and I've see the Seattle T-Birds, and I know I'd much rather watch an NHL game in person.

      No argument there. I personally prefer watching soccer or baseball in person, mostly due to Ichiro. Hockey's fine, used to be on a team in school, used to watch games, nothing wrong with NHL, since it's back on the ice. More fun playing it IMHO, but to each his own.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    5. Re:Who the hell actually buys these by wolrahnaes · · Score: 1

      I look at it this way:

      I played many of these games hundreds of times as a kid dumping tens of dollars worth of quarters in to them (I'm sure the Pac-Man machine at my local bowling lanes has swallowed close to $200 of my quarters in the past 15 years). Assuming a $0.25 arcade, after 20 plays these downloads have paid for themselves. For the ones I played on a console, the value is even better, because I paid more to rent these back in those days than I do to buy them and compete online with my friends now.

      That last point is important. Marble Blast Ultra is my big time-hog right now. This is not because it's a great game, it's really just a physics techdemo with a few challenges. What keeps me playing is competing with my friends and other random people around the world to get the fastest time through the level. When my friends will pop in to a private chat with me and tell me they just beat my score by a tenth of a second, I'll go and play that level for an hour trying to beat them. Even more, when I discover a new shortcut and smoke their times by 5, 10, or in some cases nearly 30 seconds, the feeling is awesome. I know it really is nothing more than an internet pissing contest, but when I see a score that shows me ranked in the top 100 worldwide (as I am on quite a few maps) out of between 15,000 and 30,000 players ranked on those maps, it's something to be proud of.

      The demo functionality is nice as well. Being able to try out any game in the arcade (as well as many of the full games...Fight Night 3 in particular has everyone in my suite hooked) before paying a dime is rather nice. It helps prevent the feeling of "damn, this game sucks" that I got with many of my purchases on previous platforms (Arctic Thunder on Xbox is a particular example).

      --
      I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    6. Re:Who the hell actually buys these by despisethesun · · Score: 1

      I get my roms from a private bittorrent tracker with absolutely no popups or advertising. There are no viruses in any of the sets, and all the sets are either complete or near complete. They're all a quick search away, and free. It's no trouble to get my computer to plug into my TV, and a TV-out card is far cheaper than a 360 with no compelling games. And since the 360 controller is USB, I can buy one and use it with the emulators on my PC without any trouble. A lot of emulators offer multiplayer over the internet as well, so really you're paying $5 for a leaderboard. My romsets may be illegal, but they were free, and most of the publishers don't really give a shit anyway. That's why they call it "abandonware".

      --
      This poo is cold.
    7. Re:Who the hell actually buys these by Saige · · Score: 1

      Well, I think it's a safe bet that any of the games being offered for sale on XBLA are not "abandonware", and that the publishers do give a shit about what you're doing.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
  14. Midway classics vs. Mame by British · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I bought all 3 Midway Arcade treasures for my PS2 recently. At 10-13 bucks a compilation, I felt I was getting a good deal. Things to keep in mind:

    1. These are ports of arcade games. They have timers/dead man switches on almsot everything as arcade games were intended to get you in & out of there fast. Some of these countdown timers are thankfully disabled(a few racing games on compilation 3).

    2.The controls work right. I could NEVER get the controls to work right on certain games in MAME. Mind you, if I got APB to work right, the game would still suck horribly. I have a thrustmaster 2 for my PC, which is just like a PS2 controller + 2 buttons. For some reason, the right analog stick in MAME stuffs a z-rotation in there for dual-analog stick games(like Assault). Maybe I need a driver freshen.

    3. You cannot access cheat codes, unlike MAME. That's 1 point for MAME.

    4. I have more controllers for my PS2 than I do my PC(all keyboards aside). If I get a multitap, it's easily 3-4 player Gauntlet on the big screen. 1 point for the consoles.

    5. Yes, the endless searchin' for uncorrupted ROMs for mame to get the games to work right. Then when a new version comes out, you sometimes have to get revised roms. 1 point for consoles.

    Now if players could hook up over xbox live/whatever to play co-op or competitive on arcade games, oh man would that be fun.

    I hope Midway continues to release more arcade ports for the PS2. The 3rd compilation didn't have many games, and you found out just how bad Race Drivin' was with the controls & physics. The load times between races in Rush: the rock were awful. They have plenty more atari coin-op games to port over. Sure beats out the Sega compilation.

    1. Re:Midway classics vs. Mame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You can hook up over Xbox Live. Gauntlet, Smash TV, Joust all support this. SF2 and UMK3 will too.

    2. Re:Midway classics vs. Mame by Teclis · · Score: 1

      Now if players could hook up over xbox live/whatever to play co-op or competitive on arcade games, oh man would that be fun.

      You sure can! Gauntlet on live is great fun!

      --
      Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right. --Isaac Asimov
    3. Re:Midway classics vs. Mame by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      The revision rom thing is what I never 'got'. IMHO, a rom dump is a rom dump is a rom dump. You dump a machine once, and the rom should be good forever if the emulator is up to snuff.

    4. Re:Midway classics vs. Mame by wolrahnaes · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it turns out that an existing "standard" dump was damaged somehow, or that there is a newer revision of the same game out there.

      It still does bug me though when games like Pac-Man get revised like that, since I'm sure there haven't been any new versions of the arcade machine for years and while the number of people with the capability to dump the ROMs is small compared to consoles, it's still a popular enough game that you'd think it would have been verified hundreds of times over.

      I'd like to see better changelog entries that explain WHY a particular ROM needs to be re-acquired.

      --
      I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    5. Re:Midway classics vs. Mame by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see the 'why' also. Although I do appreciate the MAME effort, it's just not logical that the a large percentage to a WHOLE set of ROMS need to be updated for a new release. I haven't gone over the source code, or gotten into the intrinsics of the emulator, but I have a sneaking suspicion that extra information the emulator needs in order to run the ROM effectively is being stored in the ROMS themselves instead of an external file.

  15. MOD PARENT INFORMATIVE by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 1

    That's definitely more reasonable. You make a good case with multiplayer Guantlet. I still wouldn't pay $5 for pacman, though. :)

    1. Re:MOD PARENT INFORMATIVE by Saige · · Score: 1

      We don't have Pac-Man yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if that one didn't make it.

      Besides, the best part about XBLA? If you don't think a game's worth $5, then you don't have to spend the points to get it. :)

      I bought Robotron, Gauntlet, and Joust - but not Smash TV yet. I probably won't do Defender or Root Beer Tapper, perhaps Paperboy, and very likely MK3U and Cyberball - since those two are multiplayer, which is where the fun lies. Of course, SF2 might well be ruling XBLA by that point.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
  16. Why I am pissed. by jaygatsby27 · · Score: 1

    There has been no update for backwards compatible games on the 360 since December. What the hell is taking so long?

    1. Re:Why I am pissed. by Saige · · Score: 1

      I don't know... perhaps because what they're doing is HARD?

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
    2. Re:Why I am pissed. by jaygatsby27 · · Score: 1

      Not so hard they can't get one game ported in 3 months.

    3. Re:Why I am pissed. by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      There has been no update for backwards compatible games on the 360 since December. What the hell is taking so long?

      Maybe they think we're all tech geeks who only care about hardware, and don't actually want any games to play on our nice shiny useless boxes?

      Seems to me they are probably pushing new games, none of which are out or will be before the other consoles ship, in some desperate attempt to catch the edge of the wave. I think they should realize you shouldn't aim for the crest unless you're boogy-boarding, sit on their board and get a decent surf with a reasonable break.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:Why I am pissed. by wolrahnaes · · Score: 1

      They're definately pushing new games, but I disagree withy your statement that they won't be out before the other consoles. The other consoles are just having their first "public" demos at E3, meaning they're still months off. Over on the Xbox360, we've got Oblivion and Splinter Cell: Double Agent to look forward to this month, among others (I just listed to two that I have preorders on, obviously since those are the ones I want most).

      I'll gladly admit that the 360 lacked a huge launch lineup, but PGR3 was almost enough for me alone, and the Live Arcade games have kept me distracted when I'm not in the mood for racing. I'm considering buying Fight Night, but for now the demo is doing a great job of entertaining my roommates when we get in to some massive tournaments.

      By the time the other consoles hit, the 360's lineup will be going full steam. It's the same as the PS2's launch, just without as much backwards compatibility.

      I can't wait to see what the other two bring to the table though. Revolution's on my must-buy list, and I have preorders on the PS3, though I'm not sure if I'm going to keep one or just resell them all on eBay. That one depends on the launch game lineup.

      --
      I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
  17. Not *all* the games were better/worse by DrYak · · Score: 1

    You just don't both speak about the same games.

    The parent is right : there were lot of old games that are much better than the *average* crap today.
    Just as you are right : there were a lot of crappy games back then.

    The difference is only about which games you're thinking :
    When thinking with nostalgia, people usually only think about the good parts. They do remember those games that they realy loved and play continously for hours.
    They silently forgot all the crapastic stuff that you describe and that they either didn't bothered to buy, or immediatly throwed in a trashcan/brought back for refund/re-sold to some sucker...
    So, of course what they remember seems just better than everything they see around these days - which includes not only today huge-success that will be remembered for years, but also includes all crappy stuff (like movie tie-ins) that companies are trying to push and that will be immediatly forgotten after a short.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Not *all* the games were better/worse by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Most of those "great" games from back then don't hold up today, either. Not even compared to the "average" game. Space Invaders, for example or Asteroids. Pac-Man's easily exploited AI. If those were released today (obviously with updated graphics and assuming that the game hasn't existed before) noone would buy them and reviewers would complain about too simple gameplay, bad controls, repetitive level design, etc. These days we expect more from a game than we did back then, for example today a new level is more than just the previous level with some more enemies or a higher speed, copying and pasting rooms is inacceptable (even hough some reviewers glanced over that in Halo). Games have more varied content and require more means for interaction. Just running and shooting gets your game panned, we want puzzles, story, etc in a game.

      Ten or fifteen years ago Capcom's P.N.03 (obviously with graphics that match the time and a highscore list instead of a save feature) wouldn't have been panned for 4 hour playtime, repeating rooms, lack of different themes or the delayed controls, it'd have blended in perfectly with the other games.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  18. Enough. Stop with the MS Fanboi posts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enough. Stop with the MS fanboi posts. There is no reason to be posting all this noise about Xbox as nothing is happening on that front. Unless, maybe /. or its staff are getting paid to post product placements disguised as articles. If that's the case, fine, but disclose it. Otherwise, layoff with the xbox-a-day posts.