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$9 Billion Loophole for Synthetic Fuel

Rondrin writes "CNN has an article detailing a $9 billion loophole in the tax code to spur synthetic fuel development. Unfortunately, spraying coal with pine tar qualifies. From the article: 'The wording is so bland and buried so deep within a 324-page budget document that almost no one would notice that a multibillion-dollar scam is going on. Not the members of Congress voting for it and certainly not the taxpayers who will get fleeced by it. And that is exactly the idea.'"

42 of 328 comments (clear)

  1. Um by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone think congress reads any of these bills?
    And if something sneaks by, everyone (the public) gets riled up for a few days, and then forgets about it. Short attention spans of the public are great for politicians...

    --
    And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    1. Re:Um by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My uncle was in congress when Clinton was president. He found out about the missile strikes on Afghanistan when he saw it on CNN.

      It's amazing how uninformed members of congress can be.

      --
      I was watching this thing on TV about some guy named Hitler. Someone should stop him!
    2. Re:Um by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 3, Funny

      324 pages? Maybe if I made $165,200 per year and got free airfare back and forth from home to work....oh...wait...

    3. Re:Um by Politburo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unless your uncle was the chair or ranking member of the Intellience Committee, there's no requirement for him to have been informed of the strikes, iirc, for obvious security reasons.

    4. Re:Um by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most Congresspeople are specialists.

      They have in-depth knowledge about a few specific national issues (usually because those national issues effect their State) and they know about local stuff. If they know anything else, they're on a committee that has to deal with it, or they've had lobbyists take them to dinner to tell them about it.

      Otherwise, Conresspersons are no more informed than you and me.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    5. Re:Um by SUB7IME · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What you're saying makes intuitive sense. As soon as you actually take a look at the voluminous statutes passing through the Congress, though, you'll realize that it would be bordering-on-impossible for one human being to read and understand each piece of legislation that is being voted on.

      In other words, with modern legislation as complex as it is, there is no way for each Congressperson to read each bill. They rely on soundbites from people whom they trust who themselves can only read (substantial) portions of the bills.

    6. Re:Um by samkass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's probably a slight exaggeration, but in the first Gulf War, CNN seemed to have better information than either side's military. I had the opportunity to call in two scuds to the Navy from my house in CT when I was in High School based on CNN's information. I happened to be on the phone to my father who was in the Navy operations and planning center in Bahrain, and told him that CNN was reporting two incoming scuds on Dharan, Saudi Arabia. He told me not to worry, it wasn't happening. I told him that CNN seemed pretty adamant and they were donning gas masks. He started to tell me that it really wasn't happ... then said "um, I'll call you back *click*". I heard later that our satellites were getting "red out" on their IR sensors and that multiple scuds launched in sequence on the same trajectory wouldn't show them all unless they used radar pings, which they hadn't been doing consistently. The CNN report was accurate, and the Navy missile sensors were not.

      After that they put a 10 minute delay on CNN, installed CNN in the Navy HQ, started using radar pings a lot more, and generally started reviewing what information was being released by the media. Anyway, the US military has come a long way since the first Gulf War.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    7. Re:Um by samkass · · Score: 2, Informative
      Yeah, now they don't even need a reason anymore to invade countries.


      You're thinking of the President and Congress. The US military has never unilaterally decided to invade anyone.
      --
      E pluribus unum
    8. Re:Um by infolib · · Score: 2, Funny
      My uncle was in congress

      So, how big a tax break did you get?

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  2. Those clowns in congress are at it again... by bigwigeconomist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course nobody knew about it. I can't even file my income taxes without the aid of a computer program and a book. It's the same story with the earmarked discretionary spending in transportation bills. None of the representatives could read the entire bill even if they wanted to, and so "pork" is jammed through and the tax payers are left soaked. The lesson is: if the bill is too complicated for ordinary individuals to understand, it's too complicated period.

    --
    The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Those clowns in congress are at it again... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If the bill is too complicated for ordinary individuals to understand, you still have to comply with it.

      WTF are you talking about? If a bill is too complicated you don't comply with it, you vote it down so that it never becomes law.

      ...or at least the congresscritters should, at any rate.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Those clowns in congress are at it again... by RingDev · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wouldn't it be nice to have a page limit too? I mean, who is going to read through a 300+ page document and agree/disagree with the whole thing? Break it into smaller chunks that can be digested by regular Americans, and voted on in a straight forward manor. Instead of this tax breaks for the rich on troop funding bills crap.

      I'm glad there are at least a few senators out there like Feingold who actually take the time to look into some of these bills and to vote against them, even if it is just symbolic. At least it sheds light on the issues.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  3. Glad the info is coming out... by ursabear · · Score: 2

    I'm glad this has been found and is being proffered to the public to read.

    It is important that the public is aware when this type of thing is smothered in mind-numbing pages of legal pap. If it makes you mad, write your representative/senator. I did.

  4. Meanwhile... by misfit815 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My diesel automobile could easily run biodiesel refined from old fry grease from the McDonald's down the street if only Uncle Sam would shove Big Oil out of the way and let it be refined. Nevermind that the process could easily be done for under $1.00 a gallon. Nevermind that it doesn't depend at all on the Middle East. Nevermind that it burns cleaner than either regular diesel or gasoline. Bah.

    --
    Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
    1. Re:Meanwhile... by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My diesel automobile could easily run biodiesel refined from old fry grease from the McDonald's down the street if only Uncle Sam would shove Big Oil out of the way and let it be refined.

      Never mind that you (yes, you!) can get a permit for small-scale biodiesel production.

      Also, you don't even have to refine it! Get a $795 kit from greasecar, a $1200 kit from greasel (bad idea) or a $1100 kit from Elsbett (best idea, if you have the money) and you can run on vegetable oil. You only need [bio]diesel for startup and shutdown, and if you get the Elsbett kit, you can put whatever fuel including WVO into the same tank and start up on it, too.

      Biodiesel costs about $0.25/gallon if you make it yourself. Deacidifying and dewatering average fryer oil costs about $0.05/gallon. WVO has about 85% the energy of biodiesel, so you will get less power/mileage on oil, but it's cheaper, and easier. You can, however, build a biodiesel processor for around $600.

      I have a 1981 Mercedes 300SD and plan to get the Elsbett kit, which is spoken of very highly everywhere I've seen a reference.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Meanwhile... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't it the case though that the energy required to produce bio diesel is more than the energy you get out of it? If this is the case then how is this a solution? It would seem to make the problem worse....

      No.

      Longer answer: Even ethanol is energy-positive now.

      Longest answer: http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ethanol/balance.html.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Meanwhile... by RingDev · · Score: 2, Informative

      Making Ethanol and making BioDiesel are drasticly different processes. Ethanol is basicly wood alcohol made from distilling corn. Biodiesel is made by a chemical process of removing glycerin from vegie oil or fat.

      Biodiesel production is much more efficient the Ethanol, and contains significantly more energy per volume.

      Biodiesel is also more stable, not as caustic, more efficient, and less poluting in a Diesel car then Ethanol in a Petrol car.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    4. Re:Meanwhile... by instarx · · Score: 3, Informative

      Those numbers are bullshit...the Diesel and Gas numbers are obvious BS too. No one would ever make gasoline or diesel if it took more fossil fuel to produce than it yielded. It just wouldn't be worth it.

      You obviously haven't thought much about this. Here is a quote from the original "bullshit" article: "Petroleum diesel's life cycle yields only 0.83 units of fuel energy per unit of fossil energy consumed."

      You used this information to reach the incorrect conclusion that no one would ever do that because there would be no profit, and therefore the numbers have to be wrong. You are confusing efficiency and profit. Even though it takes more energy to get that gallon of fuel in your car than the gallon produces, you PAY more for it than it cost the oil company to get it there. Oil field to refinery to gas station to car is a very inefficent fuel delivery system, but it is a VERY efficient profit-making system.

      Before you go shouting "bullshit" next time you should think about the problem more thoroughly.

  5. Re:What's another 9 billion? by Horatio_Hellpop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ummm ... US companies have been purchasing Chinese goods for 50 years ... mostly because they can get them much cheaper, than paying dumbass union workers $45/hr to produce the same thing.

    Not the fault of the "current administration" ... not by a long shot.

    Please buy a (chinese) clue during your next shopping run at Wal-Mart.

    --
    Frammin' on the jim-jam, frippin' at the krotz!
  6. 9 Billion over three years by pizzaman100 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Note that the 9 billion dollar credit is how much they got in 3 years.

    FTA: From 2003 through 2005, TIME estimates, the synfuel industry raked in $9 billion in tax credits. That means the lucky few collectively cut their tax bills by that amount, which would be enough to cover a year's worth of federal taxes for 20 million Americans who make less than $20,000 a year and pay income taxes.

    So while this tax loophole sucks, it's $3 billion a year not $9 billion. That means it's a year's worth of taxes for 6.6 million people who make 20K, not 20 million.

    1. Re:9 Billion over three years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Phew - that's a relief, I knew there was no scam.

    2. Re:9 Billion over three years by Funkmaster_G · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're correct, but I don't think they were comparing year-by-year. They were just putting the $9 billion number in perspective. Something like "Bill Gates is worth $30 Billion dollars, which could feed X Millions of people 3 meals a day for a year..." even though he didn't make all that money in a year. Just a comparison.

  7. More socialist bs by geekee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Although people think of programs like welfare when they hear the term socialism, govt. incentives to help business are the same thing. You can argue that giving incentives to companies to produce technology in areas the US needs to be headed in is a good thing, but don't be surprised when the money is ill spent. Unlike in a corporation, where people are fired for wasting money, in govt. you win elections for getting tax dollars into your district, even if they are being spent on something completely non-productive.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
    1. Re:More socialist bs by SirSlud · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > where people are fired for wasting money

      If you believe that, its pretty obvious you've never worked at a large corperation. Theres a reason theres a term 'office politics' - its because the same bullshit *some* people seem to think only exists in politics also occurrs in capitalist organizations.

      You're an idealist, and as such, you'll always be far from the truth when using critical analysis becuase the axioms of your arguments simply don't exist in the real world.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
  8. Simple technical solution to many such scams by straponego · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Often sleazy little tibits like these are inserted at the last minute into a bill hundreds or thousands of pages long. When the votes are taken, nobody is even aware of the changes. Congress critters complain about having voted for something they didnt know about, but none of them seems to want to address the problem.

    So, why doesn't Congress use a revision control system? When the day comes to vote on a bill, you check for changes since the last time you read it. If there are changes, you know who made them and when. Your basic audit trail.

    I suspect that one of the reasons something like this hasn't been implemented yet is that most politicians are habitual defectors rather than cooperators; they may not want their enemies to be able to use dirty tricks, but they'd like to be able to do it themselves.

    Ah, besides. Can you imagine Congressional debate on whether to use CVS, svn, or... what am I thinking? Free software wouldn't even be on the table.

    1. Re:Simple technical solution to many such scams by ffflala · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Congress does have a version control system and it is very well-established. It is part of any legislative history to pull all versions of a bill --which shows the chronological development of a bill as a submitted bill is amended in the legislative process. The main problem is, no one bothers to read even the current version, let alone all prior versions. Laziness aside, there is simply more legislative paperwork put out in a single term of Congress than one person can read. There is on the order of tens of thousands of pages of statutory material published PER YEAR. Not to forgive our representatives their lack -- this is their job, if they can't handle it they are responsible for organizing a team structure that CAN cover this material. But it'd be different if it were interesting reading, but imagine how closely you'd pay attention to Tax Code Revisions after the first 2000 pages.

  9. This ought to be good... by symbolic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Republicans and Democrats alike pledging to crack down on influence peddling,

    Riiiight. Pardon my underwhelming response, but I seem to remember a similar effort to "crack down" on campaign finance abuse. Oh wait...that has yet to happen. And this is something else that will also probably never happen. Any elected person worth their weight in salt (literally) knows that exercising care not to bite the hand that fills the campaign trough is far more pressing than more mundane issues - like maintaining a sense of integrity. I'm filing this in the "I'll believe it when I see it" category.

    1. Re:This ought to be good... by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." -- George Carlin

  10. Government screwups by Slappytron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is not news. This was in Time a few years ago. Apparently there are several Pennsylvania and West Virginia coal mining companies that paid little to no taxes for 5 years by rigging up some tar spraying system over their coal cars.

    This is another example of why you cannot rely on the government to "solve" these fuel problems. They end up making bad situations worse. Take the oil crisis of the mid 70's. The government tries to solve the problem by implementing price controls instead of letting market forces take hold and lowering demand. They end up running half the stations out of business for a time and creating huge lines at the ones that do manage to stay open. I'm not a Bush fan, but he should be praised for leaving things alone after Katrina. Gas prices worked themselves out because people became concious of their consumption. Demand fell, prices fell. The Market worked.

    1. Re:Government screwups by gumbi+west · · Score: 3, Informative
      What is new is that the loop-hole disappeared b/c the price of a barrel of oil went above $50 -- so now the producers want the cap removed so they can get the money all the time.

      This cap was placed in to improve predictability. Oil was above that mark and they decided that the companies investing in this should get a subsidy if the price of oil went down. So when gas is cheap, producers get a subsidy, and when it got expensive they would have to make it on their own (it should be economic when oil is very expensive). The basic idea is to help them make it through any short term dip in oil prices.

      Now, Senator Hatches office claims that removing the cap is necessary to reduce unpredictability b/c of the fluctuating price of oil. I'm not sure I understand the logic.

    2. Re:Government screwups by danpsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This is another example of why you cannot rely on the government to "solve" these fuel problems. They end up making bad situations worse. Take the oil crisis of the mid 70's. The government tries to solve the problem by implementing price controls instead of letting market forces take hold and lowering demand. They end up running half the stations out of business for a time and creating huge lines at the ones that do manage to stay open. I'm not a Bush fan, but he should be praised for leaving things alone after Katrina. Gas prices worked themselves out because people became concious of their consumption. Demand fell, prices fell. The Market worked.

      I marvel at this neo-capitalistic, liberatarian viewpoint on everything. I hear it a lot here. The market will work itself out. The market works towards a monopoly that creates barriers of entry. If government can't police the market at least a little bit, then we don't even live in a democracy anymore. Because when you vote with your dollar, your vote only counts as much as the contents of your wallet. Maybe this is an issue with the way in which government attempts to help things instead of an issue of them helping at all. Government funds a lot of research that would otherwise not happen because it is unprofitable. Just because it's bureacratic and awful doesn't mean the free market is the answer, it means we need to make it a better government.

      --
      Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
    3. Re:Government screwups by danpsmith · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The market is cyclical, yes. It does tend to favor large corporations (which benefits you with convienence and lower prices) to a point - but there has historically been a tipping point where these conglomerates stagnate and smaller, innovative companies rise to provide new or better products or services, and even create entire new markets. The market provides incentive to do this - you have to beat the big boys, so you have to innovate.

      Doesn't matter how innovative it is if the innovation is kept out by barriers. The most you can hope for in this model is that the big corporation takes notice and incorporates the little guy's changes into it's products.

      Yes, again, incentive. If everyone is guaranteed the same things, why would we ever work hard to advance ourselves in life? The failure of communism and the economoic stagnation of socialist countries should illustrate this point. Meanwhile, those embracing capitalism thrive (India, China to an increasing extent, South Korea)

      Certain rights everyone deserves. The phrase voting with your dollar poses a problem. It's taking issues that should be political and making them monetary. It's not about socialism, it's about when a corporate entity infringes upon my rights, the only recourse in which I can pursue them is monetary, making whether or not they want to trample on my rights a cost/benefit decision. I'm not saying give everyone the same products, that's fine, people who work harder can get more stuff. I'm saying give us the same rights.

      The problem with government research is that too often it is politically motivated, which benefits nobody but the politician. Corporate research is generally intended to make profit - by providing new and better products and services.

      The problem with this type of thinking is that new and better products and services aren't the only way to make profit. You can profit off of wars, and off of disasters. Their concern isn't with the betterment of the national good, their concern is with the betterment of the profit and the two don't always agree with each other.

      Obviously, arguing about political viewpoints is a no-win situation. You slant towards socialistic thinking, me towards liberatarian thinking.

      I am advocating for democratically executed control over the marketplace. This isn't socialist, it's democratic. There is a difference folks... I'm saying if you have a problem company, put it to a vote on whether or not to revoke their charter maybe. There's a hypothetical for you.

      --
      Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
  11. Whack-A-Politician by amigabill · · Score: 3, Funny

    I say we convince a congressman somewhere to sneak a small snippet into some must-pass law oen of these days. A snippet that would allow me once a year to show politicians what I think of their work by requiring each politician to allow me to smack them upside the head. And make a big shindig of it all, invite the press, hire a caterer, and of course all a tthe taxpayers' expense. This snippet of law would not allow anyone to back out of getting smacked. What a great way to spend one day a year, and it could be a heck of a party. National Politician Smacking Day, everybody gets off work to watch it on TV and everything.

    Do you think they'd start actually reading what they vote for if something like this happened a few times?

    1. Re:Whack-A-Politician by rcw-home · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hmmm, that wouldn't fly in court. The equal protection clause of the 14th amendment would require the law to be written so that the politicians have to allow everyone to smack them upside the head.

  12. Republicans *and* Democrats? by stomv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Interesting how they tie the giveaway to current Republicans and Democrats and yet who is mentioned supporting the giveaway in the article?

      * Charles Grassley, Republican (IA)
      * Rick Santorum, Republican (PA)
      * Gordon Smith, Republican (OR)
      * Orrin Hatch, Republican (UT)

    Who is mentioned as being against the giveaway?

      * Lloyd Doggett, Democrat (TX)

    So maybe it's the so-called "liberal media" who is just raking the GOP over the coals. Or, maybe it's representative of trying to show the corrupt GOP Congress as being bipartisan in a weak attempt to appear "fair and balanced."

    In this case, I suspect it's the latter. YRMV.

  13. Yes! by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have long been a proponent of this idea, but it needs to expand beyond each bill and its amendments. If you've ever read a huge bill like the Patriot Act, you know that a lot of any bill is modifications to existing law.

    We need to be able to see diffs on existing law in addition to diffs on the bill being passed. In addition, any amendments should show what was changed in the bill and existing law. The main problem with this idea is that it would rely on either natural language processing or interns (which could screw up or deliberately not flag certain changes).

    I want this desperately, and if I ever win the lottery or something, I'm going to fund its creation.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  14. OK, I'll bite... by layer3switch · · Score: 2, Informative

    "... spraying coal with pine tar qualifies..."

    Ummm.. ok, so what's wrong with that? Last time I checked, carbonization (heating and compressing wood) produce coal tar and pine tar which also is used to produce acetic acid, methanol, and turpentine.

    Excerpt from Wikipedia about acetic acid:
    "Liquid acetic acid is a hydrophilic (polar) protic solvent, similar to ethanol and water. With a moderate dielectric constant of 6.2, it can dissolve not only polar compounds such as inorganic salts and sugars, but also non-polar compounds such as oils and elements such as sulfur and iodine. It readily mixes with many other polar and non-polar solvents such as water, chloroform, and hexane. This dissolving property and miscibility of acetic acid makes it a widely used industrial chemical."
    Another word, it gives off extra Hydrogen when mixed with water. So it's used to produce hydrogen cheaply... hmm that's a bad thing?

    Excerpt from Wikipedia about methanol:
    "Methanol is used on a limited basis to fuel internal combustion engines, mainly by virtue of the fact that it is not nearly as flammable as gasoline. Methanol blends are the fuel of choice in open wheel racing circuits like Champcars, as well as in radio controlled model airplanes, cars and trucks. Dirt circle track racecars such as Sprint cars, Late Models, and Modifieds use methanol to fuel their engines. Drag racers and mud racers also use methanol as their primary fuel source. Methanol is required with a supercharged engine in a Top Alcohol Dragster and all vehicles in the Indianapolis 500 have to run methanol. Mud racers have mixed methanol with gasoline and nitrous oxide to produce more power than gasoline and nitrous oxide alone."
    hmm... sounds like alternative fuel to me... or maybe I'm not getting this article's punch line.

    Umm.. so what am I missing here? Is there supposed to be a punch line in the article where I supposed to go "Ah, those GOP rascals!?"

    --
    "Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
  15. Re:What's another 9 billion? by wolfponddelta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You still believe the crap that your upper middle class mommy and daddy feed you? Unions, while given a bad rap because a very few of them were used by politicians and moneygrubbers for their own gain, are the only thing in this country, and the world, that is keeping corporations from completely stepping on people. Safety regulations in mines? Forced by union strikes. Child protection laws in the workplace? Forced by unions (led in the fight by a 90-some year old woman who actually cared about 9 and 10 year olds losing limbs in factories. A woman named Mother Jones). Fair health care and prevention of a corporation cutting all retirement plans to pad their corporate wallets? The only thing preventing this is, yes, unions. Workers whose salries are randomly cut for "cost-saving measures" while the corporate office posts record profits? The Union is the only thing that can help them. The government doesn't care. Walmart doesn't care (and constantly squash any attempts for their workers to unionize). And the upper middle class don't give a damn, because they've never had to work in dangerous conditions, or work 3 part time jobs just to eat and have no insurance. Once you've had to actually work for something in your life, or have had your benefits stripped, the benefits which are part of your salary (and you've agreed to be paid less than you should be just to get those benefits), then you can rail against the unions. Once you've actually studied history and taken a moment to use your brain, and maybe think for yourself instead of letting Walmart or Uncle Sam do it for you, then you can rail against unions. Once you use your brain and the internet for something other than trying to make yourself feel superior and intelligent, and maybe read up on the union strikers who were murdered and maimed to "protect" the "peaceful life," workers who wanted only to not be forced to go down into mines without safety equipments, or to not be charged more for the necessary gear than what they earned for the work, then you can rail about knowing it all. Once you actually get off your ass and find out that there's more to unions than jokes about Jimmy Hoffa, then you can say something. Until then, use mommy and daddy's money to buy a clue. And it's the government workers, the postal workers (one of the largest corporate welfare corporations in the U.S.) that make $45/ hr. Not the shipbuilders, or auto builders, not the miners or janitors. Unions, and strikes, are not about getting paid more and mroe for doing nothing. They're about getting what you were promised, for protecting benefits that you're due, for not getting screwed over by a corporation while the suits at the top get paid millions for doing absolutely nothing. An Injury to One is an Injury to All.

  16. Re:Jimmy Carter started this in 1980 by Legion303 · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The kneejerk reaction of the left-wing idiots is to blame Bush for everything."

    I looked through the comments, and only one person even mentioned Bush (technically, his administration). Neither the writeup nor the article blames Bush. So if you're seeing "left-wing idiots" everywhere, maybe it's time to increase your medication.

  17. These companies should not get subsidies at all by SmilingBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me get this straight:

    - Synfuel is meant to be a petrol and diesel replacement produced from coal (for mor information look at the South African company Sasol: almost half the country's requirement of petrol are made of coal. And yes, it works just fine.

    - At high oil prices owning real synfuel technology is like a licence to print money. You take cheap coal and turn it into expensive petrol.

    - You may argue that synfuel production is unprofitable at low oil prices and therefore, subsidies are needed at low oil prices to make companies invest into this technology.

    And the last thing is precisely what the US government intended with its tax break. I don't want to say that it is sensible tax break, but I think some people would argue it is.

    So, to summarise:
    High oil prices -> Synfuel producers make money because they can sell their synpetrol at high prices
    Low oil prices -> Synfuel producers make money because they get a subsidy.

    HOWEVER, the companies described in the article do not produce synfuel. They simply make a nonsense modification to the coal that qualifies them for the taxbreak. Therefore, they do not benefit from high oil prices as a real synfuel producer would.

    So now, they are lobbying to get their taxscam going that has NO benefit to the public at all.

    What lawmakers should do: Tighten the definition of synfuel so only real synfuel producers qualify for the tax break. These will be happy with high oil prices and although they will still want the tax break at high oil prices, they shouldn't get it as they are making enough money on their own.

    SmilingBoy.

  18. Marriot Corp laughing to the bank by mattOzan · · Score: 2, Informative
    There is more info on Marriot's "synfuel program" in James Howard Kunstler's book The Long Emergency.

    They bought four "synfuel" plants in Oct 2001 for $46 million in cash. The next year, those plants generated $159 million in tax credits. So instead of paying an annual income tax of around 36.1%, like they did in 2001, they only paid 6.8% in 2002, "due primarily to the impact of our synthetic-fuel business."

    Not bad for "a few pole barns and conveyor belts where coal was sprayed...with small amounts of diesel oil, pine tar resin, and other substances."

    After making $370 million in five years, I'd be ready to bail out too. That's just over 800% ROI. Buy low, sell high!

  19. Direct democracy by couch_warrior · · Score: 2, Funny

    In the movie "Superman", Perry White, editor of the daily planet says -
    "I want the name of this paper and Superman to go together like peanut butter and jelly, like politics and corruption...."

    The problem is basically this - you have created an office that gives the holder permission to spend the peoples money that they exert no effort in earning. THEN you have created an election process that requires millions of dollars to be spent to achieve that position of authority. How many seconds does it take the average fool to figure out that you can use those "public funds" and give them to firms that will kick back a fraction of the proceeds as the legalized bribery that we call "campaign contributions".

    Then you act surprised that federal spending is full of "gifts" to large companies. Sheesh - did you go to school on the short bus?

    There is one good way to fix this -

    A constitutional amendment that disempowers Congress and substitutes a direct democarcy. Every taxpayer - along with their federal tax return, gets to say where the money they are "contributing" gets spent. Congress would assemble a sales catalog of possible federal programs, and taxpayers would pick and choose how much to spend on each one. Taxpayers would also get to vote each year on raising or lowering the tax rates.

    THAT would put some radical reform into the federal government!

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"