Fuel Cells for Laptops Due Next Week

prostoalex writes "AVC and Antig Technology will demo a production-ready fuel cell for laptops next week on CeBIT trade show. According to PC Magazine, 'the CD-ROM size fuel cell will fit within the media bay of a notebook PC, replacing the drive with additional battery power.' The fuel cell battery will last 8 hours."

Comments

Fuel air bomb?

[fredklein]

Seriously, what would be the travel restrictions with these? Will airlines (or more precisely the TSA) allow me onboard with, say a dozen of these? Or even just one?

Re:Fuel air bomb?

[Comatose51]

Seriously, what would be the travel restrictions with these? Will airlines (or more precisely the TSA) allow me onboard with, say a dozen of these? Or even just one?

Answer your question:

Airlines: Yes if you're part of the platinum elite patrician class. No if you're flying as a proletariat.

TSA: Yes if you hand over your DNA, pictures of your family, especially your sexy, hot wife (don't worry about this one Slashdot), and prove that you're a supporter of the current administration. No if you're an average law-abidding citizen.

Jokes aside, it seems to me that if they allow even one, they might as well allow more since a malicious group of people can each carry one and get together while in the air.

Re:Fuel air bomb?

[TheRaven64]

I am amazed that they let you fly with lithium-ion batteries. A lithium-ion (or lithium polymer) battery is basically a bomb with a bit of electronics trying to persuade it that it's really a battery.

On a lighter note, have you ever been asked at an airport if you are carrying anything that can be used as a weapon? What do they imagine you might be carrying that can't be used as a weapon?

Re:Fuel air bomb?

[TubeSteak]

On a lighter note, have you ever been asked at an airport if you are carrying anything that can be used as a weapon? What do they imagine you might be carrying that can't be used as a weapon?

Chuck Norris is no longer allowed to fly on planes.

Everytime the TSA asked him if he was carrying anything that could be used as a weapon, he would deliver a roundhouse kick to the head.

Chuck Norris now takes the bus.

Re:Fuel air bomb?

[bman08]

Why are you assuming Chuck Norris needs to 'go' anywhere. Chuck stays still and stuff comes to him.

Re:Fuel air bomb?

[sangmin]

the regulation for Li-Ion batteries was passed before 9/11 happened.
ICAO the governing body for these kind of regulations pretty much said that
if Li-Ion batteries came into the picture after 9/11, it probably wouldn't have
passed regulations.

hate to be a skeptic, but...

[jxyama]

There's no mention/plan on how to refill the thing. Also, it weighs a lot - more than 3 lbs, which could almost double some laptops' overall weight. It may be "production-ready" in the sense it can be manufactured and used, but I don't think it's "production-ready" in the real worls sense at all.

Re:hate to be a skeptic, but...

[MP3Chuck]

I dunno ... if the 8-hour life is true I'm sure there are a good few people who would be willing to trade a few pounds for that kind of outlet-free time.

Re:hate to be a skeptic, but...

[grcumb]

"There's no mention/plan on how to refill the thing."

That's a show-stopper for me. I'd love to be able to deploy robust and renewable energy sources for field research, and for Internet access in very remote areas. If I can refuel these things myself (even if that means buying some patent-pending refuelly whizbanger for a mere 42 gazillion bucks), then I'm very interested. But if it's not trivially refillable, it's worse than deadweight.

"Also, it weighs a lot - more than 3 lbs, which could almost double some laptops' overall weight."

That's not such a big deal for a lot of applications. True that the average travelling salesman will care a lot about even a few more pounds to schlepp through the airport. But I suspect this kind of technology will find a different niche at first: situations where the cost of generating electricity removes any advantage that a battery provides.

For example, I recently kept a laptop running for a week on a very remote island in the South Pacific (cue the Cast Away "Wilson?!?" jokes). In order to do so I had to haul a few truck batteries and a solar panel with me. If I could make do with a couple of fuel cells and a mini-still (there's lots of sugar cane handy) or even a jug of high-proof, I'd be able to keep the laptop running non-stop, and more efficiently than running a generator to charge batteries.

Re:hate to be a skeptic, but...

[Glonoinha]

The good news is, it basically runs on vodka.
The bad news is, it only likes the really good stuff.

100cc worth of the lab grade methanol it uses (why couldn't they have made it run on ethanol, which is so much better for the environment (and your belly)) is about a buck or two, if I recall correctly.

Re:hate to be a skeptic, but...

[ruiner13]

3 lbs full or empty? I'm guessing methanol isn't massless.

Re:hate to be a skeptic, but...

[oringo]

For refilling, if there's a will, there will be a way to refill the cartridges (like the HP ink cartridges). The 3lbs weight is a problem to me. I have a Dell 700M with a removable bay, but the laptop itself is only 4 pounds. There's a reason why people stay away from desktop-replacments.
On the other hand, I can imagine a battery-renting business at the airport or converntion centers. You won't have to carry it or buy it, just rent it for 5 bucks to wait for your much-delayed flight. (Now a even better excuse for airlines delays!)

Fun with chemicals!

[TheDarkener]

Imagine how this will EXPLODE on the laptop market! Can you just imagine the FIRE in the eyes of who sees this? How about the PAIN existing latpop battery makers will face once this product FLUSHES through, like a HOTCAKE!!

HA! HA!.....uuugh....

8 hours?

[chris_eineke]

It'll last 8 minutes w/ my AMD64 laptop! This thing eats electrons like pacman eats yellow pills.

Refilling?

[bflong]

From TFA:
Neither Antig nor AVC stated what the fuel-cell module would cost, nor offered any plan for consumers to refill them, however. Both companies are based in Taiwan, and company representatives were unavailable for comment.

What? I can't refill it? Whats the point then?
Nothing to see here... Please move along...

Price?

[jemenake]

Something tells me that the initial price of these fuel cells is going to exceed the price of the laptop itself. In fact, I'll bet it'll be cheaper for me to buy a car batter, an inverter, and a sherpa to carry them while he follows me everywhere. :)

I'd Buy It

[MBCook]

If true, I'd buy it.

My last laptop (a Dell Inspiron 8000) I kept two batteries in (it was a three spindle notebook). This increased the weight, but gave me over three hours of battery life with normal use (it was a desktop replacement that just loved to eat batteries). I would gladly replace one in that notebook with one of these for the extra battery life (if I still had it).

My currently laptop is a Apple PowerBook (15", Feb 2005 model). I'm not sure it would have the room necessary for one of these to replace the standard battery, but I would gladly do it (I currently get 3 hours of use, or about 45 min if I run a full-on 3D game with the laptop in "high performance" mode).

I would be much more interested if it was a closed system that could recharge it's self (like a fuel-cell could be set up). That said, it's 45w of power and almost 4 pounds. My current battery is 46 watts and less than 1.8 pounds. And I know the newer PowerBooks and MacBook Pros have better batteries than mine.

3 more watts, double the weight. How will that give me 8 hours of battery life? I'm skeptical. Maybe in an ultra-light notebook with a slow processor doing word processing.

Still, at least someone is about to market something other than a "normal" battery.

Re:I'd Buy It

[wed128]

Wattage has nothing to do with battery life. The fact that the battery can put out 3 more watts just means it's capable of more throughput...think of it like a widemouth beer can. It's increased flow has nothing to do with capacity.

Re:I'd Buy It

[MBCook]

When they say "Watts" with computer batteries, aren't they usually referring to "Watt-hours" and not true watts? That is what I was basing things off of.

For example, my laptop's battery is supposed to be 42 Watts. System profiler tells me it is about 12v, and full charge capacity of 4100 mAh. Multiply it out and you get 49 Watt-hours. If you take into account the voltage will drop as the battery discharges and the battery becomes useless at certain voltage level, it probably has 42 Watt-hours of useful energy.

Am I wrong?

PS: My battery has cycled 87 times, and my computer does not have an UPS installed according to System Profiler (that is an option on any Mac?)

Now I gotta carry methanol?

[tinrobot]

I think it would still be more convenient to simply plug the laptop into the wall, a car outlet, or even a solar array for a recharge. If you're in the absolute middle of nowhere, you could carry an extra battery or two and it probably wouldn't be much more volume/weight than a pack of methanol containers. On top of that, hotel rooms, conference rooms, coffee shops and other places I use my laptop don't have methanol dispensers, but almost all of them have plenty of free electricity.

Besides, 8 hours is not that huge of an improvement over batteries. Fuel cells seem to have promise, but I won't be switching until I can run a laptop for days at a time.

Re:More 'burned groin' stories?

[Firehed]

You think them going from "laptops" to "notebooks" was just marketing strategy?

Re:More 'burned groin' stories?

[colinrichardday]

Get a laptop cooler. Even if you don't want to use the fan, it still keeps the heat away from the family jewels.

Power Brick

[shmlco]

I don't get it. Practically every manufacturer uses a different form factor for CD bays, and many more than one. How hard is it going to be to find one of these for your favorite notebook? What about notebooks that don't have swapable bays?

A better option would be to make a power "brick" with a DC output and a number of tips for popular notebooks, much as currently done for universal power supplies. You could then make a single device that works with a lot more notebooks, and have more power available as it's not constrained to fit into a particular form factor.

Re:Power Brick

[SirCyn]

What decade are you living in? Most all laptops these days use the standard slimline cd-rom. They just have a different front bezel attached.

Re:Power Brick

[shmlco]

And while we're on the subject, "most all" notebooks these days use a power brick to supply DC power. A move which also allows them to easily use 12v DC car chargers and plug into airline power outlets. In fact, I dare say that more notebooks do that than they use a specific CD/DVD drive form factor... which is why I made the suggestion in the first place.

Re:Power Brick

[JazzCrazed]

You're absolutely right on that... My laptop doesn't have a swappable drive bay (its slimline drive is "integrated," according to Acer), but it sure does use a power brick with a standard-looking barrel plug.

I think the main issue for people is that most don't want to have a big brick/box hanging off their laptop if they can avoid it.

But obviously if this fuel cell were integrated into an external box with a modular plug, then it would have applications outside of laptops - you could use it to power/charge a slew of other electronics (maybe my PDA, for instance). So your idea has my vote!

Slashdot=stupid

[gotak]

Wee lets all look at the link on yahoo news. How come on one thought of going to the manufacturer's website?

http://www.antig.com/english/mediabay.html

It used cartridges. There you go your refill.

Er, no

[Brian Stretch]

I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but...

HP made two versions of their HP zv5000 and Compaq R3000 notebooks two years ago, an Intel P4 version and an AMD Athlon 64 version. With a 12 cell battery, the AMD version gets 3-4 hours of battery life in average use. I was able to play just over 3 HOURS of DVD video on mine.

The P4 version gets about an hour. HP wisely decided to drop Intel CPUs from the following year's zv6000/R4000 lines.

So, substitute "Prescott-core P4" for "AMD64" in the parent post to make it a lot more accurate.

Direct Methanol Fuel Cells.

[AWeishaupt]

To everybody wondering about refilling the MeOH solution that these cells use - it probably won't be practical. The 'fuel' needs to be very pure, otherwise catalyst poisoning will destroy your very expensive fuel cell. I imagine swappable methanol cartridges just like AA batteries might be available - one day.

Re:More 'burned groin' stories?

[joe_bruin]

Wait until you see what happens with the water generated by these things...

Headline: Fuel Cells for Laptops Due Next Week
Subtitle: Embarrased-looking early adopters with warm wet spots in their laps due week after that

When your laptop dies on you..

[nephridium]

..does it make the same sound as when Pacman dies?

Re:When your laptop dies on you..

[ben0207]

As long as the lid doesn't fold back on itself you should be okay.

I'd rather have a windup generator

[ishmalius]

If these cells are not refillable, then they are useless for extended uses, such as the enormous power outages during the hurricanes last year. With a simple cheap windup or pump kinetic generator, then the fuel for this can be anything I like, such as muffalettas, marinated olives, or Jolt Cola.

Re:Amp-Hours, not Watt-Hours

[tmortn]

yes but amp hours are useless info without also knowing what voltage the power is delivered at. 1 amp hour of 12 volts is far different from 1 amp hour of 120 volts. Nothing wrong with watt hours. Your electric bill comes in kw-hr's.

In either case 45 watt hours is almost certainly incorrect for this device if it could run a laptop for 8 hours. More likely it can deliver 45 watts continuously for 8 hours which would actually be 360 watt hours. IE 1 watt for 360 hours or 45 watts for 8 hours. Which delivered at 19 volts (a common laptop requirement) that would be ~2.37 amps giving me right at 19 amp hours for a 19volt source.

Considering many laptops can draw 60 watts or more continuously if they are being maxed out (HD, CD/DVD, Graphics Card hammering, and USB headset doing VOIP for team commander) that would give you a more realistic idea of how long this device could power your system for under full load. But 45 watts is probably reasonable for average consumption. So my question becomes what can it deliver on a continuous basis. IE can it pump out 70 or 80 watts for 4.5-5.5 hours of run time ? Or does it face throughput issues ? Does it heat up under those circumstances ?

And of course what are the refuling options. Can I just go down to the hardware store, pick up some methanol and pour it in like I would into a zipo or am I going to have to buy some rediculously priced proprietary refuling canister ? You probably don't want folks pouring methanol into a tank on a plane flight. But make it so I can buy 2 or three canisters that I can refuel at home or in safer areas and a system for safely swapping them out under any circumstances.

8 hours of run time is nice. But if its harder to replinish than it is to find a wall outlet this thing will have very limited use.

Curious about the surge capacity as many laptops can suck down more than