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RFID, Sign of the (End) Times?
andy753421 writes "Wired is running an article featuring Katherine Albrecht who, with her new book 'The Spychips Threat: Why Christians Should Resist RFID and Electronic Surveillance', is warning that RFID tags may in fact be the "mark of the beast". Among her arguments are that in a futuristic world anyone who wishes to buy and sell goods would be compelled "to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads," as is foretold in the book Revelation. Others are skeptical saying that many new technologies, such as the printing press, bar-codes, and several others, have also created fears about the beginning of the end."
Just because those other inventions weren't the mark doesn't mean this one isn't.
every society has had an end, the mayans, egyptians, romans, greeks
it all comes to an end, if you truly think the culture of greed, capitalism and consolidation can continue for ever then you are deluded, so when that time comes how will we know ? at what point do we give up and start again ? 20 years ? 50 ? 100 ? 500 ?
its not IF but WHEN
why are you guys posting articles by some flakey Christian who thinks progressive technology is the devil?
now maybe Christian fundies can occupy themselves railing against something harmful, rather useful things like evolution or Middle East peace talks.
40 years ago, it was the 'social security card'....20 years ago people said barcodes were it.. in anoher 20 it will be something else... no need to panic.
Now if some guy with horns and a tail, and breathes fire, comes out waving an RIFD injection machine THEN you can panic..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"The only reason barcodes weren't the mark is because they can't mark humans"
I can tattoo myself with a barcode, does that count?
Revelations is a perfect specemin of apocalyptic literature. Here's a good definition of such literature: Hermeneutics.
It's written to warn and to use descriptive language to explain what the future holds. The idea of head and right hand are frequently used to depict what we think (head) and what we do (hand). As such, in this particular instance, the warning is not when we have implants in our heads or hands, it's when we think and do evil things.
Interpreting apocalyptic literature as truth verbatim is not only stupid, it's dangerous.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Everyone who thinks that somehow, someday, everything is going to switch over to an RFID system are insane.
Lemme tell you why: The Black Market
The black market is never going to dissappear. It is fueled by personal anonymity and cash (because cash money is anonymous).
While the black market isn't necessarily something to be proud of, it shows up whenever there are market inefficiences or certain niches that aren't being fulfilled.
Money from the black market is like money from Bush's tax cuts... it trickles down into the rest of the economey and boosts it up.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
We are getting closer to the end of the world every day. That is true no matter what your religious convictions.
I love it..
;-)
"... it is a little too big brother" (emphasis mine)
yup.. just an eeensy teeenny bit to much. A barcode on the forehead would be just fine.
Others are skeptical saying that many new technologies, such as the printing press, bar-codes, and several others, have also created fears about the beginning of the end.
Barcodes and print can be covered. Credit cards and magnetic stripes have to be practically inserted into the machine to read em.... the field strength is too weak otherwise. If you keep em in your wallet your are safe.
All of the other technolgies that might be used to track your actions require you to willingly and deliberately use them. You don't have to use plastic to pay for purchasses is one example. Use cash.
With RFID tags, they can be read from within metres of you so anyone just passing by you on the street can access all of the tags on you if they like. Anyone outside your house can read all of the RFID tags on your household equipment, books, porno, etc and figure out a bit about you completely without your knowledge.
RFID is this technology that nobody really cares about except the people who would want to misuse it and the tinfoil hat brigade. Problem is that the tinfoil hat brigade will be made out to look like crackpots by the people who seek to abuse the technology.
I drink to make other people interesting!
If only that had been arbitrarily put in and Revelations left out. We'd all be talking about how Jesus went to hell and that after the Apocolypse, if those who ascended to heaven asked to for clemancy for those in hell, it would be granted. Guess it just didn't have the fire and brimstone to keep the stupid peasants under controll that all the 666 bullshit and no redemption theme Revelations does.
The worst thing about modern so called "christians" is that they don't know thier own history.
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Christianity does not believe end times are heralded by RFID tags, some Christians do. That is what separates Christianity from crazy cults, since it is large and diverse enough to have people make up their own minds on such things. Cults need centralized leadership to tell its adherents what to do and what to believe, Christianity hasn't got a central authority and so its adherents are free to interpret the canon however they see fit and form groups where they share crucial facts of their interpretation. Most Christians believe the book of Revelation to be a non-literal message about what kind of persecution the church has faced and will face in the time between Christ's first and second coming, others believe it is an allegorical prophecy of the history of the thousand years after it was written in about 50AD and some (like the RFID nutter) believe that it is an allegorical prophesy of the thousand years before Christs second coming (whenever that may be). What almost all scholars agree on is that whoever the beast may be is irrelevant when one simply holds to the principles that the bible teaching when dealing with the beast as with dealing with anyone, thus finding the beast is pointless. Unfortunately, not all Christians are scholars and some like to draw shaky parallels and make accusations without merit.
I know I have just bitten a troll, but someone had to clarify it.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
I know I have just bitten a troll, but someone had to clarify it.
You didn't clarify, you were acting as an apologist for followers of christian mythology.
Trolling is a art,
so during the time of Christ, christianity was a cult.
couldn't resist
Ignoring end-times psychosis, what is the reason why the "mark of the beast" is evil? Could it be something to do with the commoditisation of human beings? RFID would fit right in... I'm not saying that these groups are right, but when you look at why such things are seen as being evil or wrong by religious groups, they often have a certain consistency, and are in fact a pretty mainstream view.
Quoting from revelations isn't going to help their cause, but it is surely entirely possible that such things as RFID could, in some sense, be symptomatic, or even causative of what people who consider themselves spiritual would perceive to be a decline of civilisation.
Even if the delivery and mythos is nutty, this doesn't mean that the message itself is!
Wikileaks, no DNS
Truth isn't flamebait.
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
Christianity hasn't got a central authority
Isn't he called the Pope?
Limbo (together with pergatory) however was never part of the bible, it was simply part of that pagan stuff that was folded in by the Roman church to allign it with other popular beliefs of the day, it is part of what protestant churches reject. The catholic church actually did the bible a service by getting rid of that dogma. I don't think you personally know what the bible says, how different churches interpret it. I think you should learn a little about theology and church history rather than a bunch of crazy conspiracy stories if you want to talk rationally about something.
I don't let my personal Atheism prejudice my study of faith, I don't see why you should either.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Christianity does not believe end times are heralded by RFID tags, some Christians do. That is what separates Christianity from crazy cults, since it is large and diverse enough to have people make up their own minds on such things.
But Christians do believe that the end times are coming. That is 100% pure cult.
Cults need centralized leadership to tell its adherents what to do and what to believe, Christianity hasn't got a central authority and so its adherents are free to interpret the canon however they see fit and form groups where they share crucial facts of their interpretation.
Yes, there are many flavors of Christianity, standing as separate cults. Each has its own central authority.
Most Christians believe the book of Revelation to be a non-literal message about what kind of persecution the church has faced and will face in the time between Christ's first and second coming, others believe it is an allegorical prophecy of the history of the thousand years after it was written in about 50AD and some (like the RFID nutter) believe that it is an allegorical prophesy of the thousand years before Christs second coming (whenever that may be).
Nice to see you speak for "most Christinans." Too bad that you are completely wrong, as most Christians do believe it literally.
I know I have just bitten a troll, but someone had to clarify it.
Pull your head out of your ass. Take a look around. Study history. Come to accept that your religion is just as absurd as the myriad religions of yore that people don't take seriously today. You are nothing but a chump buying a load of crap. You are being sold down the river just as much as an ancient Greek who prayed to his gods for help. You are a dumbass.
That is what separates Christianity from crazy cults, since it is large and diverse enough to have people make up their own minds on such things.
HA! Remind me again how you decide right from wrong? Oh, that's right, you don't, you get told what is right and wrong by your imaginary friend. And how is it that you "made your own mind up" on the existence of heaven? Oh that's right, you didn't, you just got told it.
The whole religion is founded on faith. That's practically the opposite of making your own mind up.
but America is, by and large, becoming less religious as time goes on.
Nationalism isn't a religion?
To begin with, you Anonymous Coward, your use of the word CULT is meant in a sarcastic and demeaning way, and you're therefore attempting to label all religions as cultic in order to negate their value and relevance. You do this because you are attempting to pronounce your own personal beliefs and marginalize religion. I find it all too common now a days for atheists to take that superiorist attitude and look down upon us all too ignorant and feeble-minded idiots who believe in a higher order, a spiritual realm.
That said, and using Christianity as an example, I would like to point out that no Christian knows for sure when the events of the End Times will begin; not in march, not in 2012, and not in 2300. The Bible states that the rapture will come "like a thief in the night," and nobody knows the time of Christ's return. Many generations throughout history have thought the rapture will come during their lifetime, and of course, none have been correct.
I think why you have a lot of people saying the end times are near is because there are way too many conditions being set in place that coincide with Biblical and non-Biblical Prophecy. One prophet named St. Malachy wrote down in the 11th century his papal prophecies and stopped in detail with our current pope. He only vaguely mentions one more, peter of rome, who will be a martyr and the last elected pope. At least, until now, he has been eerily accurate, it will not take much more time to find out if he was correct. Benedict is pretty old and may not last too much longer.
The Non-Biblical prophecy of the Mayans says that the end of our current age will be around 2012, some scholars think that when you account for the inaccuracies of our calendar the Mayan 2012 might actually land on our 2006!
Even if you look at current events it seems like things are becoming more unstable and the United States is threatened by a looming great depression (reference: look up petroeuro). The dominance of the dollar is weakening and in order to maintain its dominance the Bush administration is trying to prolong the inevitable by resorting to war and aggression. There is no way a country can exist solely on a war economy, but that is what has been happening since WWII. The collapse of the American Empire will only lead to the rise of the European Union as the world's leading power and ultimately the much prophesized one-world-government. Of course, some of what I have just said is hearsay and speculation, but it is hard to deny that there are a lot of signs pointing to that outcome.
Now, once there is a Unified world government under the leadership of a single individual, he might prove to be malevolent and require the allegiance of all who serve him. The "Mark of the Beast" will be his way of purging those who might stand in his way and threaten his authority, we're talking about the Christians. His "Mark" will most likely be some sort of technology that can interface with computers, presumably this technology will contain the numbers "666" signifying the wearer's allegiance to this leader or even the leader's ownership over them. Those who refuse to wear the chip that, in some way, contain the number "666" will, at first, not be allowed to participate in normal commerce and functioning within mainstream society will be all but impossible. Then it will escalate and full scale persecution will commence on those who refuse the "Mark". You can almost look at it as a reverse of what happened during Nazi Germany and the Jews, the Jews were forced to wear the star of David as a way to set this minority apart from the rest of German society. The only difference is that this new designation system will be displayed in an opposite manner of the Nazi's system. Everyone has the choice to accept the mark, but those who choose not to are instead choosing martyrdom and sacrifice.
It is difficult for even the staunchest atheist to deny the possibility of a future like this.
I think it is way too easy for atheists to call names saying Christians are "cra
...to frame the debate as "the end of the world." No, it's not going to be the end of the world. RFID is a great way to track inventory, but it's also a clever way to spy on everybody and track their every move. And the problem with that is the potential for the abuse of power. ABUSE OF POWER is what we have to fear with no governmental controls on this technology. Not a ridiculous "end of the world" scenario. Albrecht may be leading the charge to collectivize people who are against this technology in order to devise some way to "handle" them later. Good lord, anything but an honest public exploration of the issues. Deception seems to be the fast track to bringing change to the masses.
If you're gonna be hungry again why eat? If you're going to die why live?
This fact seems to be heavily obscured... And of course, the Testaments have undergone revisions since then. Also the 4 Gospels are basically the same in content, so three seemed to have mainly copied off the 1st, and just re-wording them for different audiences.
We do not know the exact dates of composition of the gospels. They are not dated, and we do not have to autographs. Still, 50 years after Jesus' death is one estimate, with 25-30 years being a lower one. It is also true that though the gospels themselves were written (or compiled) later, their actual source materials may have been written long before that, likely when Jesus was still alive. Also, three of the gospels have very similar content, while John is fairly unique and written quite a bit later. The postulation of scriptural revision is not so sure as to be a matter "of course." We have manuscripts from the early seconds century onward, so we can establish the textual history of the new testament to a greater degree of certainty than any other historic document collection. This means that even if major revisions happened (which they didn't), we can see through them. The compositional history of the gospels is a very complicated thing, in case you were wondering ;-).
Additionally, remember that the disciples of Christ (Peter, John, etc.) are thought to have been around 18 or 19 at the start of Christ's ministry; so 50 years later they would likely have been about 70 in age - quite likely they would still have been around at the time it was written, along with numerous other first hand witnesses. Now add to that that there was written works (ala Paul and others) that could also be utilized, and it is very possible. For instance - do a modern day writing on the events of the 1963 JFK assassination - there are many written works, first-hand witnesses still alive, and numerous second-hand/after-the-fact witnesses that can attest (sp?) events, etc. It would have been quite doable for the writers to compile things together even 40 or 50 years after-the-fact and still have 100% accuracy.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
The "rapture" contingency would be taken care of by obtaining an insurance policy against the "rapture" for each mortgage (probably from Lloyds or Swiss Re),
"Hi, I'd like to buy an insurance policy against the rapture."
"Um, pardon me?"
"Yes, I'd like to give you a half-million dollars right now, and if vast numbers of Americans go miraculously flying up into the sky, to be followed shortly by the end of the world, you will pay me 500 million dollars."
"If the US economy completely collapses, and then the world ends, you want me to pay you in dollars?"
"Yes, that's correct."
Dude, sign me up! Where can I get in on this deal?
Sorry, but an appeal to popularity is yet another logical fallacy. At one point (and perhaps still today), the majority of people in America thought Saddam Hussein was involved in 9-11. The popularity of that (deliberately implanted) falsehood does not make it true. Truth is independent of popularity. In fact, many of the greatest scientific revolutions (continental drift and heliocentrism come to mind) were initially met with contempt, disbelief, and even censorship and threats. The popularity of the Bible, and even the fact that some of the events in the Bible are historically verifiable, do not make the other events in the Bible, particularly the ones that are unprecedented, any more credible.
(%i1) factor(777353);
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If this "flake" is able to convince a large enough number of other Christians to flake out over this, it will impact how RFID gets used. The RFID design or usage plans may get modified, using "avoid freaking out the evangelical nutjobs" as an added implementation criterion. The resulting design changes may make for something that the rest of us will be happier with... or make for something that we will be much unhappier with. This makes it "stuff that matters".
Society affects technology, and vice versa. Not all of society is rational, but the irrational parts still impact technology. Of course, the Slashdot discussion won't focus on this, because (a) figuring out exactly how this will impact RFID is pretty hard and (b) making fun of fundamentalist christian whackos is more enjoyable for a lot of Slashdotters.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.