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The Trouble With Software Upgrades

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "When software makers urge upgrades, it isn't always in users' best interest, the Wall Street Journal reports. Many upgrades bring advertising or other unwanted features; some iTunes users felt this way about a recent upgrade. But for many programs, downgrading can be a headache--Yahoo generally doesn't link to old versions of software, and Apple says iTunes can't be downgraded. Some websites can help with the problem. OldVersion.com, for instance, offers more than 600 versions of about 65 different programs. The site's 16-year-old administrator says, 'Companies make a lot of new versions. They're not always better for the consumer.'"

30 of 356 comments (clear)

  1. The problem with software companies by dada21 · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Here is a problem for most software companies, and one reason I would never invest in a publicly traded software company. It is also the prime reason that I sold off my portion of a private software company I had owned.

    The problem? Obsolescence.

    Software seems to be obsolete almost immediately after it is released. If a better product doesn't replace it, the product itself contains bugs that require a new release or at least a patch. The difficulty in pricing software is figuring out what percentage of the sale profit needs to be held back to cover long term support (updates and customer service).

    One way developers are recouping the expense of upgrades is by offering yearly support subscriptions, but these are better suited for corporations who desire a fixed budget. For the home user, I'm betting most prefer to buy a program once and desire a lifetime of upgrades. Recently I complained (to myself) about needing to rebuy a program that had been updated -- until I realized I hadn't bought a version from the company for 4 years!

    The end result is for the company to find others willing to pay for the upgrades. Users who desire something at a discount should be willing to at least admit that they're also part of the problem -- they tell the developers that they'll buy a product at a certain price, and they give the developers reason for finding ways to pay for that product in the long haul.

    In all the software I use (a ton of it between my businesses, my home, my side projects, my church congregation tech junk, and my family needs), very rarely does an upgrade work against me. In fact, I'd say 95% of upgrades I've performed in the past 10 years made me more efficient, even if they incorporated certain things I didn't like.

    If software wants to do something you don't want it to do, block it with your firewall. For me, that's the only necessary step.

    The final part of the quote: "They're not always better for the consumer" needs to be looked at differently. Updates that allow the developer to continue updating and supporting the software ARE good for the consumer, just maybe not in the "now" but in the long run. The time preference of the developer might be different than the consumer, but they have to be similar or the developer won't last.

    1. Re:The problem with software companies by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm betting most prefer to buy a program once and desire a lifetime of upgrades.

      no they prefre to see that program simply work for as long as they need it.

      Problem is that most "upgrades" are not that but bug fixes the software company decided to charge for. windows 98 for example was a windows 95 bugfix.

      Good software (Calendar creator for example) get a insane following behind it. Because it works and does not break at every turn and version 2.0 works just fine compared to version 5.8 so the customer is not interested in upgrading. Give th ecustomer a reason to upgrade and they typically do.

      But consumers look at their software like their camera. if it still takes pictures, why do I need to buy a new one?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:The problem with software companies by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If software wants to do something you don't want it to do, block it with your firewall.

      What if the new version won't run until it phones home? Half-Life 2 retail anyone?

    3. Re:The problem with software companies by Baseball_Fan · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The end result is for the company to find others willing to pay for the upgrades. Users who desire something at a discount should be willing to at least admit that they're also part of the problem -- they tell the developers that they'll buy a product at a certain price, and they give the developers reason for finding ways to pay for that product in the long haul.

      I could not disagree more strongly.

      What if the market place decided that cars will sell best at $10,000? But auto makers want to make $15,000. Would it be okay to make the car with a non-functioning radio, and then tell the consumers "We have an upgrade, it's better", but the new upgrade is a radio you can't turn off, filled with advertising. Or they tell you "we have an upgrade for your engine", but it is a GPS that collects data about where you go, so they can tell if you prefer Best Buy or Circuit City?

      If I want to spend $50 for software, then either there is software I can buy, or there is not. It is deceptive to sell software for $50, then turn around and hide spyware in it, invade my privacy, or find some other way to milk me for more money. If there is a security patch, or performance patch which corrects a programming mistake, then let me download the patch without any unwanted code.

      One other thing I hate is when there is an upgrade, and the end user can't stop it. For example, use AOL. It will download "upgrades" in the background. Even if you try and exit AOL, the upgrade will continue to download unless you unplug the phone line.

      There should be truth in advertising. And don't tell me there is an urgent security bug fix, but force me to accept a new EULA or take on new software. Just sell the software so it works. Stop double dipping.

    4. Re:The problem with software companies by mellon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It does cost money to fix bugs, you know. You can argue that they ought not to have released the software with bugs, but it's just part of the cost equation - do I release now, with potential bugs, or release later, with no bugs? Do you want the software now, or later, or maybe not at all, because my company folded due to no revenue? Okay, so now you have the software, and it turns out not to be perfect. Do you want my company to stay in business so I can fix your problems, or go under?

      "Should" is a fairly useless word when it comes to commerce. "Works" is a better word.

      Anyway, if you don't like the process of using commercial software, there's a cure - go open source. :')

    5. Re:The problem with software companies by srmalloy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, if you buy a program with the expectation, based on the advertising, box description, and manuals stating that the program will do [insert desired function here], and the program does the wrong thing when you use that function -- i.e., when you sum a column of numbers in a spreadsheet, the total is wrong, or the contents of a cut-and-paste change between cut and paste in a word-processing or graphics program -- then you should have a reasonable expectation that the software company is obligated to release a patch that fixes the problem, because the product that you have purchased is not the product that was described.

  2. What's Not To Like About Upgrades? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    • Retraining
    • Initial loss in productivity
    • Data/Project Conversion
    • New Bugs
    • Cost (and Cost-to-Benefit of new features)
    • Potential Hardware / OS upgrades necessary
    • Bonus: The Murphy Factor - Is there something lurking in there which will make you very, very sorry at the worse possible time?

    I seriously hate it when someone says, "Here's the new release, it's going in right away!" That's where the term "Bleeding Edge" comes in.

    I typically upgrade when I feel I need to, i.e. there's some new feature which really is great or required for the work you do.

    Lastly, this guy is 16? Props!

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:What's Not To Like About Upgrades? by just_another_sean · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I 100% agree. But yet recently I was forced to upgrade our accounting system through two versions in a weekend. Why? Well a new manager came along and said "We're using an unsupported version? We must upgrade now!".

      We, like you, did not rush to upgrade because we didn't feel the need. Our users were happy and used to the system. We'd worked out some bugs over the years and everything was pretty stable, very routine. But our support contract (which we never used) stated that once a new version came out support for the old was very limited and eventually was per incedent, $mega/hour support only.

      While I understand the nature of a support contract as insurance it is a bit frustrating that my company pays a huge annual amount for this, we hardly (actually never while I was here) use it and if we want to keep it we have to run our business on their schedule, not ours.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
  3. Upgrade != Better by ArcherB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Upgragde does not mean better. WindowsME was supposed to be an upgrade to 98SE. Trust me, it wasn't.

    The company I work for writes software. Trust me, I would not recommend anyone to buy the first release of any upgrade we offer. Wait until it gets about 30 or 40 builds and becomes stable.

    I guess you could say that the reliability of software is like a wave: It goes up until a major release, then it drops down to the bottom and starts working it's way back up again. When the software becomes perfectly reliable and feature complete, it's time to release a new version, and down we go again.

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  4. They finally noticed? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

    > When software makers urge upgrades, it isn't always in users' best interest, the Wall Street Journal reports.

    They've got a bunch of geniuses over at the WSJ, haven't they.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  5. New version with bigger, better ads! by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Funny

    Try the new version, its ads are bigger and the privacy intrusions are twice as invasive!

    Just don't try to go retro, or we will disable your account and report you to the internet police.

    (sarcasm off)

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  6. Upgradeitis by ROOK*CA · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Unfortunately most non-technical users have "Upgradeitis", which means that all it takes to get them to upgrade a piece of software is to tell them in straight forward language "An upgrade to XYZ software is available" and make the upgrade process painless. The average user (in most cases I think) doesn't stop and ask themselves, do I really need this? Is the software I have now doing what I want it to do? What's in this upgrade that I really want/need? How will this upgrade affect my data and/or other applications?

    Seems to me that they've become almost programmed to think of anything new as necessarily "better" and thus desirable without ever thinking of the old addage "If it ain't broke don't fix it", couple this with the propensity of many users to load up on drive by download software that they'll probably only ever use once and you end up with a pay per incident support providers wet dream.

    1. Re:Upgradeitis by Zerbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think part of that comes from the constant news about how we need to update our software because of virus X or worm Y or some other vulnerability Z. People have been conditioned to believe for example that weekly updates to Microsoft Windows is a normal and good thing.
      There are people who do fall too easily to the marketing hype of a "new and improved" version though. Part of the marketing strategy of using the year in the name of a product is to make it feel old to a user, even if it hasn't necessarily outlived its usefullness.

      --
      "22 astronauts were born in Ohio. What is it about your state that makes people want to flee the Earth?" Stephen Colbert
  7. Reminds me of Tomorrow Never Dies by rehtonAesoohC · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There's a part of the movie when Elliot Carver is having a teleconference with his underlings, and one of the questions he asks is:

    Elliot Carver: "How about our new software?"
    Underling: "We are releasing on schedule. As requested, it is full of bugs, and users will be forced to keep upgrading for years."

    I wonder how valid that statement actually is.

    1. Re:Reminds me of Tomorrow Never Dies by Reziac · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It may not be so far off.

      I know a guy who was part of the core devteam for MacOS7. He told me that they were actually FORBIDDEN to create a patch to fix a critical hardware bug, which rendered the system unusable for the very multimedia use for which it was being marketed. Why? Because the bug was fixed in the next incarnation of the hardware... and if you wanted your multimedia stuff to work, you had to upgrade the whole damn monkey!!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  8. Case in point: by a_nonamiss · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perfect case in point: I have a 4 year old laptop that I keep in my kitchen. It's running Windows XP (barely) but it's really low on memory. (192MB minus video memory) I like to listen to music on it, since it's in my kitchen and readily accessible. I recently installed the only downloadable version of WinAMP on it, and it uses almost 80-100MB of RAM while it's running. Now, when I used to run WinAMP on my old 233MHz Pentium with 32MB of memory, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't using 80MB of RAM while running. I don't need visual effects. I don't need an integrated web browser. I don't need a catalog of my 200GB music collection. I just want to listen to music... And it's not like iTunes or Windows Media Player are any better. They're hogs, too. I tried Foobar2000, but it hates my sound card and uses a lot of CPU. So I'm stuck. Whenever I start WinAMP, it takes 5 minutes to load, and when I quit, it takes 5 minutes to unload from memory.

    I can't wait to get home and install WinAMP 2.0!

    --
    -Arthur
    Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
    1. Re:Case in point: by a_nonamiss · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh, and side note, if you're from the RIAA, I meant 200MB music collection which I legally ripped from my CD collection.

      --
      -Arthur
      Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
    2. Re:Case in point: by Qapf · · Score: 5, Informative

      Winamp 5 includes 2 modes, one for old computers with low ammounts of memory, and the other for people who want the nice stuff. During install choose the classic gui and it should be alot faster for you.

      --
      What does one cow say to the other? Moo.
  9. Re:Pointless article, oldversion.com? by RandoX · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to the site, they only have Freeware and Shareware. Unless the software companies are using some weird definition of the two, he SHOULD be able to legally distribute. Can you retract a shareware license?

  10. You often don't have a choice if you want support by lohphat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...when you call the outsourced, scripted tech-cupport center.

    "Are you running the latest version?"

    "No."

    "Well, we need you to install it so we can diagnose your problem."

    ---

    More often than not the upgrade is better, it's the 5% of times when it's a pain. Due to software development and support being a resource hog, vendors are quick to abandon older versions instead of developting patch trains for multiple releases.

  11. Re:Sure it can! by FyRE666 · · Score: 5, Funny

    What's that? You say that they're talking about Windows? Pfff. Who uses Windows? I mean, do users have any clue how hard it is to uninstall... Oh.

    (Yes, my tongue is again located in the cheek area.) :-P

    Yes, between Steve Jobs' cheeks it would seem...

  12. Anyone who has ever used Quickbooks Enterprise ... by SyncNine · · Score: 5, Informative

    Will agree with you wholeheartedly.

    The company I work for uses QuickBooks Enterprise. We started on Version 5 (Quickbooks 2005). It worked pretty well. There were a few very small hiccups, but mostly it did what we needed it to do. We had purchased upgrade protection because we knew a new version would be coming out shortly. About the 5th of December or so we received the 2006 Update.

    Now, being skeptical to begin with, I was NOT going to install this right out of the box. It's one thing to upgrade WinZip or WinAmp to the next version, another thing entirely to take the company's accounting server down for an upgrade that hasn't been proven in the wild for more than 5 days.

    Skip forward to the beginning of February. Two months have passed and the support forums on the QB2006 site are relatively quiet. There is no patch released yet, and no notification that they are working on a patch.

    We decide to do the install.

    WORST DECISION EVER

    The system is completely unstable. It crashes repeatedly. We lose transaction data. It's not possible to 'downgrade' without completely knocking the server offline for baseline rebuild from ghost. The amount of data on the server would take about 8 hours to rebuild, and the server is being accessed about 18-20 hours a day by different shifts. We finally orchestrate a weekend rebuild about 7 days later, and then spend about 30 hours taking the data out of the new version and putting it into the old version.

    I might add, when we called Intuit to tell them about our issues, here was their response: "Well, there's nothing we can tell you. It's a known issue. You'll have to downgrade to v5. We know the uninstall funcationality is broken, you'll need to restore from a previous backup. No, there's no ETA for when the patch is coming out."

    To make matters worse, the version 6 update was a crock anyways. We've since installed it with the latest patch and it 'works', but it's slow as molasses, buggy as hell, and still notoriously unstable. If the Accounting department didn't habitually use two of its new features, I'd push us back to QB2005 just to stop having the issues.

    --
    To the darkened skies once more, and ever onward.
  13. Sure they do... by Anubis350 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ask and ye shall recieve, go here. Cheers!

    --
    "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
  14. Swat 4 by Sporkinum · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have never updated Swat4 to 1.1 due to their patch adding in game advertising.
    http://www.massiveincorporated.com/
    "SWAT4 fans have been on the offensive, following news that the new 1.1 patch contains a feature adding advertising to the game and collecting players' data, including IP address and how long they play for. The new patch implements Massive streaming ad support, which changes some of the in-game textures to adverts for real products. It also gathers information about players, detailed in their privacy policy."

    --
    "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
  15. Re:oldversion.com Is A Great Resource for Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And I'll say this:

    Piracy is not always a bad thing. I used to pirate 3d software back in high school before I could afford it (or justify to my parents that I needed it) Now, some years later, I happily own Maya and Modo. If I had never pirated other 3d apps in the past, I probably never would have gotten into 3d and eventually shelled out the money to Alias and Luxology (and various book publishers, training DVD resources, texture collection CDs, etc) Does it make the fact that I originally did pirate software? No, but like I said, it worked out in the long run. (Keep in mind, this was before there were readily available personal learning editions, and when 3D was even more expensive than it is now)

  16. Re:Two words: Windows XP by RandoX · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The advantage of XP over 98, IMHO, is the stability. My XP machine almost never has any stability problems. In contrast, 98 had a lot of them. That alone is worth the upgrade for me.

    I know, I know... try a BSD or Linux for stability. If the apps were equally available (games, especially) I'd be with you.

  17. Re:Pointless article, oldversion.com? by od05 · · Score: 4, Informative

    iTunes is now "unavailable" but the old versions are still on archive.org http://web.archive.org/web/20041012014729/http://w ww.oldversion.com/program.php?n=itunes

  18. Re:Anyone who has ever used Quickbooks Enterprise by lilrowdy18 · · Score: 4, Informative

    We are having the same issues here with Quickbooks 2006 Standard and Accountants Edition. THis past weekend Intuit released a patch for the "File must be opened on the server feature" and other "features" which have given us a headache. We just updated our test "Quickbooks server" this morning and are working on getting the testing done. For those of you unaware, any flavor of Quickbooks 2006 is ectremely problamitic becuase they have made major changes to the database. One of them being (I beleive) is that they use Sybase now instead of a proprietary database. Anyways we are urging our clients to hold off on upgrading to Quickbooks 2006 until Intuit cleans up 2006.

  19. Re:You often don't have a choice if you want suppo by MrNougat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the other hand, how long should a vendor have to provide support for a piece of software? Should Broderbund still have to provide phone support for The Print Shop v2.0 (1994)?

    If software companies can't end-of-life products, and have to support them indefinitely, the cost of vendor support becomes insanely high.

    In the US auto industry, car manufacturers are required to produce replacement parts for a model for seven years.* Perhaps a regulation of that kind would be good for software/hardware vendors, too.

    *Except Yugo, what with the giant war and everything.

    --
    Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
  20. Why do you accept this? Examples...; ICQ99b by PhYrE2k2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why do you accept that? That'd be my question!

    If I got a car that failed to start 5 mornings of the year, I'd be pretty pissed off. If I got a TV that wasn't compatible with channel three or seven, I'd be rather annoyed. If my car's doors unlocked randomly on the third Tuesday of the month, I'd be frustrated. If I got a VCR that couldn't timer record at 58 minutes after the hour, I'd be pretty pissed off too!

    So why do we let our computer programs have these problems? Why do programs need to be killed or the computer restarted at random (freezing during startup isn't as common since win2k). Why do we accept a computer program that doesn't seem to handle the formats established at the time with ease (think Windows XP destroying exif information on jpgs)? Why do we accept holes in our software that lets crooks in along with their bots, spyware, and adware? Why Why why?!?

    I've always been a fan of a certain car maker (and still am), but when I got a 2004 sport sedan and a few weeks later had my dash light up brighter than a christmas tree, the dealer tells me that their software/flash upgrade to the car should fix the issue. Sure enough, it did, and by the forums, it wasn't an uncommon problem with early production of the model. But this is stemming into other areas. An audio system I got in 2000 couldn't read any CD-Rs- obviously it didn't spend enough time in testing, as this should have come up. My car had bugs! The EPROM on my new furnace needed to be replaced. This is getting silly!

    Sure bugs are bound to get through, but it is the programmer's responsibility to properly test their program. I'd rather Windows 2000 be released today and have it stable as anything and a solid performer. This isn't how things work. Microsoft spends more time making Spider Solitaire for Vista then they do testing the OS itself.

    Updates aren't always better. Sometimes they add functionality, like additional CD Recorder capability, updated roster information for a sports game, security fixes, etc. Other times they add bloat and problems.

    Anyone remember ICQ 99b and the 98's? Memory footprint of about 1MB, fast as anything, fixed the data corruption issues of previous versions. Good upgrade. Then recall late 99 versions and 2000+, where the memory footprint was about 80MB, the thing took a good minute to start up. It was buggy, and an ad-city. Then they wonder why it died a horrible death to the favour of MSN? Pack hundreds of features in there and make it slow as anything and nobody will go back. Wait... That's a good description of Windows.

    -M

    --

    when you see the word 'Linux', drink!