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Investor Money Goes To Magic Lag Reducing Tech

Gamasutra reports on Texas technology company Bigfoot networks, which just received a $4 Million investment to develop a lag-reducing hardware PC card. From the piece: "According to the firm, it will bring to market the world's first Gaming Network Accelerator card, which will allow online gamers to play their favorite games with less lag. The company explained: 'Lag is the number one problem in online video games today, and Bigfoot Networks is the only company in the world whose sole mission is to fight lag', but gave no specific technical explanation about how it intends to do this." Greg Costikyan spells it out on the Games*Design*Art*Culture blog: "So yes, there might be a business here. But if so, it will be a business built largely on bullshit."

33 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. Weakest link? by LehiNephi · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think it's obvious to all of us that the NIC is certainly not the weakest link in a connection. I know there has been some effort to produce NICs that handle the TCP/IP stack onboard, thus reducing the load on the CPU, but the potential difference between NICs is on the order of microseconds, if not less!

    For those of you looking for quite entertaining reviews of products that are quite obviously scams like this, I highly recommend articles like this one on Dan's Data

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    1. Re:Weakest link? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think it's obvious to all of us that the NIC is certainly not the weakest link in a connection.

      It's obvious to intelligent people. It's not obvious to top-notch leveraging 24/7 TCO-oriented business-cunts (who synergize front-end e-commerce and harness B2B portals to recontextualize best-of-breed systems in holistic technologies).

    2. Re:Weakest link? by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Many games will either compress their network traffic or (lightly) encrypt it or both. They don't want the protocol reverse engineered and easily observable because then you get client-side cheats that monitor the stream and add enhancements (information overlays/sounds, os-level keypresses to push buttons in the game, etc). A card that did the decompression/decoding fast in hardware could easily cut a few ms off the delay.

      There are plenty of other ways to squeeze our a few ms on the client side. Sure this product is probably just hype, but to be so sure it has to be a scam is just close minded and unimaginative.

    3. Re:Weakest link? by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 2, Funny

      So that's what Web 2.0 lets me do...

    4. Re:Weakest link? by apoc.famine · · Score: 2, Funny

      Plus they obviously have never played any games:

      Lag is the number one problem in online video games today

      Punk-ass campers, script kiddies, and bitchy n00bs are the number 1-3 problems (pick your order) in online video games today. And have been for years now. I'd have to put lag fairly low on the list.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  2. Lag attack by dada21 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Proper optimization of how data is transported in both directions is very important. Analyzing the connection as well as the route to the destination can probably be performed by software or hardware. Once the connection is analyzed, I'm sure there are real time changes that can be performed to better decrease latency and overall lag.

    The question is why perform it in hardware rather than software?

    1. Re:Lag attack by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Informative

      The question is why perform it in hardware rather than software?

      Playing devil's advocate for a minute, during video games the CPU is usually otherwise occupied by tasks associated with feeding the GPU and processing AI/Physics. Separating this into a hardware card could provide an explicit processing environment to do such an analysis in real-time without stealing CPU time from the game. Plus, this would then be available to all programs/games running on the machine, not just those that support it. (Conceivably it could be done in a driver, though.)

      That being said, my bull****-o-meter started spiking the moment I read the summary. There's not that much that can be done on the user's end. You may be able to guide a packet down faster pipes and switches, but more likely all the traffic between you and the destination has some saturation. (Seriously, what are those expensive switches and routers doing if they're not already trying to optimize traffic?)

    2. Re:Lag attack by steinnes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Analyzing the connection? How do you propose that happens, I doubt anyone is using a protocol for their online game which is so complicated that it has routing functionality built into it at the application level. Also there would have to be a choice of different servers available, and usually (for MMO's at least) people choose their general area in the world, and I think most game services worth their salt then try and find a server for the client to play on which has relatively low latency. When it comes to "analyzing the connection", I think people just have to rely on the internet to do their routing, and a client machine with one gateway pretty much doesn't have much choice besides their one gateway with regards where to send the packets.

    3. Re:Lag attack by stienman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you're suggesting static routing (ie, put route information into the packets so they go the route you want them to) then I doubt it's going to help. IIRC many routers ignore that option. Further, it would simply add to the size of the packet and increase processing time at each juncture.

      There are really only two places for lag: the PC itself, and the network. I can imagine a card that optimizes itself for gaming packets. Imagine, for instance, the card estimating the arrival of a new packet coming from the computer. It can start sending out the packet header even before the computer gives it the packet information and data. At minimum it can start sending out the packet as it's received from the system rather than waiting for the complete packet (and CRC check).

      Still, we're looking at 1-5mS speed increase, and that increase is significantly less than, for instance, removing the router/firewall software/hardware.

      I'm interested in what the hardware does, but I can't see it improving the experience enough that even a heavy online player will notice the difference.

      -Adam

  3. Reducing lag? by Andr0s · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Honestly, I don't see how user-side hardware (or software, for that matter) can reduce online activity lag. Sure, you might try to implement some sort of protocol that evens out the lag a bit by pulling excessive amount of data when 'lag is low' and use it to fill in the gaps when 'lag is high' - but that'd require a certain, no small, amount of heuristics and second-guessing. I'm certain many of early MMO veterans remember the ancient lag issues from the times of real-time simulations - fast ones in particular, such as flight simulators, suffered tremendously from lag-related issues such as phantom opponents (where your 'second guessing' lag-compensators assumed that opponent would continue in a straight line or at the same turn radius/speed, whereas he actually went into some wild maneuver). In the current state of affairs, I'm honestly not sure how much, if any, of the lag in your average MMO is user/connection-side and thus corrigible; games such as World of Warcraft, City of Heroes and Battlefield 2 are actually playable over dial-up - the trickle of packages isn't a lot of challenge even for a stable 56k modem. The bottleneck of modern day MMOs seem to be game servers going slightly ballistic when a certain area gets swarmed by a large number of active player objects (think Ironforge in WoW or Atlas Park in CoH) and therein lies the catch... how do you expect client-side hardware to correct server-side problems?

    --
    '...computers in the future may have only 1000 vacuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons...' Popular Mechanics, 03/49'
  4. Made from oil squeezed from genuine snakes. by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wonder if these are the same people as the ones behind the magic cellphone boosting sticker.

  5. Is it something like PowerPlay? by Stormwatch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Valve came up with this "PowerPlay" technology, which promised the same thing... but in the end it was as fake as Infinium's Phantom.

    1. Re:Is it something like PowerPlay? by Have+Blue · · Score: 2, Informative

      PowerPlay wasn't so much "fake" as "yet another futile attempt to introduce Internet-wide QOS".

  6. Special Driver? by elasticwings · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe it's a regular old NIC, but part of the driver just shuts down all your P2P apps and torrents.

  7. Sure, why not by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Insightful
    After all, there's a sucker born every minute.*

    This isn't any different than the phantom console, magnets which supposedly help your arthritis or whatever book that Kevin Trudeau is bilking people into buying claiming this is information that the government doesn't want you to know about.

    This shouldn't surprise anyone. Not the least of which that there are VC idiots who will gladly pony up the money for a non-existant, never-to-be-made product simply because it has oodles of neat sounding words in its description.

    *PT Barnum never actually said those words but people routinely attribute the phrase to him.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Sure, why not by ZombieWomble · · Score: 2, Informative
      After all, there's a sucker born every minute.

      And there's a business graduate who wants to take advantage of them. From TFA:

      The company is a start-up company with roots from the McCombs School of Business at the University of Texas at Austin, and was formed by a team of Executive MBA students to improve the performance of online video games.

      Personally, I would've expected a tech start-up to include at least someone with a degree in, you know, technology of some sort...

  8. So...what causes lag? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are many different causes of lag, from network congestion, to I/O limitations on the server and client side. (Ever had an antivirus program start a deep scan in the middle of a match?)

    Right now, with the proliferation of antivirus and antispyware software, I could see something designed to alleviate I/O constrictions as being very beneficial to gamers. Perhaps a battery-backup+cachedrive device to chain between the hard disk and the I/O controller. If an application can request that its data be cached, you no longer have to worry about seek times in reading data off the drive. (You could conceivably reduce your RAM and VRAM requirements, too!)

    1. Re:So...what causes lag? by theJML · · Score: 3, Informative

      And that's why you shut down your AV when your playing... and chat, and those cd's your burning and those torrents you're pulling from and that pr0n playing on the second screen of your dual monitor setup. Concentrate on the game and all is well. I don't need someone's expensive add-in card to tell me that.

      Now, perhaps we can invent an add-in card that uses subspace carrier waves that will make a direct connection to your opponent instead of wi-fi or copper wires that go through switches and proxies. (oh yeah, and they need to have open source linux drivers, :)

      --
      -=JML=-
  9. It's filled with entangled qubits! by santiago · · Score: 4, Funny

    The card must have a reservoir of quantom-entangled particles that can be used to communicate instantaneously with the server (which has the other half of each pair). You'll probably have to subscribe to a service that ships you new bundles of particles each month to replace the bandwidth you use up. Be careful not to do anything important with it, or you'll violate causality, and cause all sorts of trouble for the universe...

    1. Re:It's filled with entangled qubits! by vertinox · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does it mean I have to look inside my computer box each time I want to know if I've been fragged or not?

      And if I don't look... Does that mean my online Counterstrike guy is neither alive nor dead, but stuck in some limbo where he has neither rescued the hostages nor got an Desert Eagle round to the head?

      I don't know about this service...

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  10. The "gold cables" of gaming? by Philus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess it was just a matter of time before something like this appeared.. The hi-fi industry has cables and magic boxes all over the place, now we get magic hardware.. I'm VERY curious to how they plan to eliminate lag introduced by routers that they have no control over. Not to completely blow them off, but I'm not holding my breath. Seeing is believing.

    I have a semi-decent 5.1 surround setup, and have avoided expensive cables because I simply don't believe in it. Audio cables might benefit from better shielding and low capacitance wiring, but digital signals.. come on man. A bit across the wire that's "worn in the edges" is still a bit, unlike a sound wave.

    1. Re:The "gold cables" of gaming? by GigsVT · · Score: 3, Informative

      Digital signals are a little more sensitive actually, but audio in general is extremely independant of wire characteristics.

      Baseband audio is only 0-30khz and that's being generous. You can put 30khz across barbed wire fence and it'll sound the same. It's just too low frequency for RF effects to show up unless your wires are 50 miles long, no matter what any "audiophile" says.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:The "gold cables" of gaming? by brunes69 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Digital signals are a little more sensitive actually, but audio in general is extremely independant of wire characteristics.

      This is somehwat true, but there are two important factors here:

      - In home audio at least, all the digital codecs ship with some levels of ECC. So any minor data lost is irrelevant.

      - Because it is a digital signal and not analog, it is therefore either a perfect transmission, or a flawed transmission. There is no middle ground. If your reciever gets an uninturrupted data stream without obvious bleeps with your crappy 0.99 RCA SPDIF cable, then buying a $40 monster gold plated cable will make no difference whatsoever. If it did, then you would be hearing the interference as very obvious bleeps and bops, or your reciever would be cutting in and out. Digital audio codecs do not gracefully degrade as bits randomly vanish.

    3. Re:The "gold cables" of gaming? by MarkGriz · · Score: 2, Funny

      "I'm VERY curious to how they plan to eliminate lag introduced by routers that they have no control over."

      By getting the routers to support the NO_LAG bit, of course.

      --
      Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
  11. It's already been tried with dialup by WreckDiver · · Score: 2, Interesting
    U.S. Robotics used to sell an "Internet Gaming Modem" that claimed to improve response times by optimizing the route between the player and the server. For playing MMO's, which tend to be hosted on server clusters instead of individual computers, the performance seemed to get worse.

    http://www.usr.com/support/overview-template.asp?p rod=s-game

    http://www.tweak3d.net/reviews/3com/gamingmodem/

    Their Performance Pro modem also claims to have a gaming mode:

    http://www.usr.com/products/home/home-product.asp? sku=USR5610B

  12. This is nothing. by Burgundy+Advocate · · Score: 2, Funny
    Once I get my new quantum-entangled NIC and running, I'll have zero lag EVAR! "Accelerators"... hah! Try instantaneous reaction!

    --
    Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
  13. No, you just need Monster Cables by Animats · · Score: 5, Funny
    Monster Cables, the darling of high-end audio wannabees, now sells computer cables. All you need is to connect your joystick using a gold-plated Monster USB cable to realize its "true performance potential ".

    Monster USB(TM) Ultimate Performance USB Cable

    Today's Advanced, High Speed USB Peripherals Require A Higher Performance USB Cable
    Not long ago, the world of USB was limited to low-speed devices like keyboards, hubs, and scanners, so using ordinary USB cable could suffice. Things have changed. USB is now used for high-speed peripherals like speakers and video capture delivering larger and different kinds of data at much faster rates with incredible bandwidth. Ordinary USB cable isn't designed to meet the new high speed demand. High attenuation can occur, which may result in "clipped" sound, lost frames of video when capturing, and connection failure. Of course, data isn't the only element a USB cable carries. In many cases, it must carry power, too. Average USB cables often promote loss, because they can't transfer all the power needed. This invites, lockup, hard shutdowns, etc...

    Introducing Ultimate Performance Monster USB: The Only High Speed USB Cable You'll Ever Need
    Higher speed. More bandwidth. That's what the latest generation of USB devices demand and only Monster USB delivers. Here's how: Internally, the conductors are specially wound using our advanced SingleHelix(TM) helical winding process. This enables Monster USB cable to deliver 500 MHz of bandwidth. That's five times the minimum USB requirement! You'll enjoy crystal clear sound and the highest resolution images possible. The RF and EM noise problems that commonly plague lesser cables is combated with not one or two, but three separate layers of high density shielding. As a result, you'll get the fastest, most accurate data transfer possible. Thanks to our ultra-large gauge power conductor, you'll get all the power needed to power-hungry USB devices, without loss. The internal construction of every Monster USB cable is created by a laser-controlled USB Extruder which ensures that the cable meets the highest performance standards for ultra-fast data transfer, up to 400 Mbps. And, precision 24k gold contacts maximize signal integrity and corrosion resistance.

    Prices start at only $24.95!

    And for that extra, melee-winning boost, get Monster Cable Ethernet Cable. Advanced XLN® Xtra Low Noise® construction delivers fast, reliable data transfer -- up to 100Mbps. 24k gold contacts provide error--free data transfer and maximum corrosion resistance.

  14. Don't they remember the 12 netwriking truths? by BertieBaggio · · Score: 3, Informative

    RFC 1925 should be required reading for everyone who thinks they have a bright new idea for a network. In this case the company should pay particular attention to rule number two:

    [2] No matter how hard you push and no matter what the priority, you can't increase the speed of light.

    Since the signal has to travel a certain physical distance, there will always be unavoidable lag. Changing the NIC will have little to no effect, unless you are using some antiquated card that was designed around the early TCP/IP stacks. And gamers are hardly known for not having hardware that is so cutting edge the wounds are still bleeding.

    I'm waiting until some new VC-funded company requests major sums of money to build a NIC that communicates on the basis of quantum enatnglement for zero lag. Not to buy one, you understand, since you can't send information faster than the speed of light -- not even by entanglement.

    And have a read of the RFC I mentioned as well. Well worth the time.

    --
    If all you have is a grenade, pretty soon every problem looks like a foxhole -- MightyYar
  15. Maybe not entirely BS by xenocide2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    This article gives a few scant details at the bottom about how it's accomplished. Apparently they plan to "offload" part of the work the server does over the internet to your computer's anti-lag card. Might be useful in a MMO where "server lag" does happen. On the other hand, you might as well just buy one of these damn cards for the server and be done with it.

    So this might work to improve things, but it seems that your software would have to be rewritten to use it. And I don't know mow significant it is, but one of the guys behind it is a former Intel chip designer. I guess there's plenty of stupid shitty intel chips in the world, but even they didn't want a piece of this.

    --
    I Browse at +4 Flamebait

    Open Source Sysadmin

  16. Why has no one mentioned by DangerSteel · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just turn off the porn !

  17. Not Impossible, Just Improbable by jevvim · · Score: 2, Insightful
    First, they're terming "lag" as anything that delays your game - network latency, network loss, system latency. I can't envision their card reducing network latency or loss, but it certainly could be optimized for system latency. First off, a lot of network adapters try to play nice by interrupting the system only after multiple packets have arrived (resulting in nearly-full buffers) or after data has been waiting in a buffer for a certain period (sometimes up to 100ms, depending on the card). Creating a "gaming card" that reduces these delays by default (which really avid gamers can reduce as well, since most drivers allow these parameters to be tuned) could allow a company to market a "new network card" that's really just a differently tuned driver set.

    More improbably, though, is that Bigfoot Networks could implement and expose a programmable protocol processor on the card. This won't help existing games, but would enable developers to move some of their protocol closer to the wire, where it may be possible to buffer data more efficiently (send one "game state" packet to the protocol engine, which can then create the multiple unicast packets needed, instead of sending multiple wrapped network packets with effectively the same data across the PCI bus multiple times). However, this will require games to be adapted for it - somewhat unlikely - and even then would only provide significant help for game servers. But since many games - Quake, Half Life, et al - are hosted by home users, it might reduce lag in some situations.

    Of course, without a product to play with or any real announcements from the company, it's just speculation at this point. But I'd love to play with a programmable protocol processor - such a device could open up new opportunities for network efficiency innovation (running PPPoE in hardware, integrated firewalls like the nForce ethernet, not to mention TCP, segmentation, and checksum offloading).

  18. This means further delays... by monopole · · Score: 4, Funny

    Both Duke Nukem Forever and the Phantom console will have to be redesigned to incorporate this technology.

  19. Galvanic corrosion by mbessey · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anybody remember from chem what happens when you place two dissimilar metals against each other?

    Uh, nothing, unless there's an electrolyte in contact with both. I think if the back of your computer is regularly getting splashed with salt water, you might want to think about moving it to another location...