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The Problems With Game Copy Protection

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the where-to-begin dept.

Next Generation has a piece looking at the sometimes overly enthusiastic copy protection schemes used in PC games. From the article: "In the late '80s and early '90s, the games industry could do little more than ask nicely that you not pirate their wares. These days, however, copy-protection software is ubiquitous, and any PC game bought at retail is going to have it embedded on the game disc(s) in one form or another. I'm okay with that in theory, but some of these anti-piracy software programs are so potent that they cause issues for legitimate game buyers. One of the leading brands, StarForce, is notorious for not only making it difficult for a small percentage of legitimate users to load up StarForce-protected games, but also for leaving potentially problem-causing StarForce software behind on your PC, even after you've deleted the game it was protecting."

41 of 439 comments (clear)

  1. Old methods of copy protection... by dividedsky319 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In the late '80s and early '90s, the games industry could do little more than ask nicely that you not pirate their wares.

    It wasn't only "ask nicely" ... I remember years ago the copy protection was simply to enter "The 4th word on the tenth line on the 10th page of the instruction manual", etc.

    It wasn't so successful, but... it was an interesting idea at the time. (Even if it was a pain having to dig out the manual if you haven't played a game in a while)

    I completely forgot about that until reading this article. I'm not sure how many companies did it, but I remember this on some Sierra Online games I played (Police Quest, for one)

    1. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by jtorkbob · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Masters of Orion used 'what ship is in the corner of page x'. With the recently-released Galactic Civilizations 2, they have completely disabled copy protection and they tell you so right up front. It's an interesting decision, we'll see how it works out, but it certainly relieves them of that copy protection burden.

      --
      AC: Only on slashdot... could the sentence "My hovercraft is full of eels." be moderated "+4, Insightful
    2. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Interesting
      It wasn't only "ask nicely" ... I remember years ago the copy protection was simply to enter "The 4th word on the tenth line on the 10th page of the instruction manual", etc.
      Ah yes, very annoying. So annoying in fact that I went out and got the pirated versions (without the password nagging "feature") of games that I owned legal copies of.

      That is the risk of copy protection on games (or indeed on music and movies as well). Why punish people for buying your software or music, with annoying passwords, dongles that don't work properly, DRM software that is little more than malware, and the inability to make backup copies for legitimate purposes? It's a fine way to destroy any goodwill people have towards your company, and you're only encouraging them to get the illegal, de-DRM'ed versions.
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by JackDW · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I completely forgot about that until reading this article. I'm not sure how many companies did it, but I remember this on some Sierra Online games I played (Police Quest, for one)

      The Infocom method required the user to possess certain physical items that came packaged with the game. You'd have to examine these items for clues in order to progress within the game. This method was really clever, as it integrates the copy-protection scheme into the game itself, while also making the game extend outside of the computer! I reckon that this is easily the best kind of copy protection from the pre-Internet era: it's not just effective, it adds to the game.

      --
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    4. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by TheGavster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The issue with online activation is that there's no guarantee the company will continue to provide the activation service. They might decide to charge a fee after a certain period of time, simply stop activating old versions of the game, or even just go out of business. Unless there's a contract saying the company will continue to activate the game as long as they are able/willing, and after that time will release a means to activate locally from an escrow, I don't see any activation system that requires action on the part of the company as being viable.

      --
      "Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
    5. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have fond memories of Bard's Tale codewheels, and laughed for a solid ten minutes when I bought a re-released package a few years back of the old games and found the publishers themselves had added codewheel hacks to these legal, purchased versions of the games to avoid having to print up new ones.

      --
      Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
    6. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by baxissimo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ok, so make it work either by online activation or by putting the CD-ROM in. If the company goes defunct, then you still can play if you have the CD-ROM.

      Personally I'm never going to buy another game that requires me to put the CD-ROM in to play. It's just too annoying when you do most of your gaming on the go with a laptop. Not that my "boycott" is worth anything, because I don't have time to play games anymore anyway. :-(

    7. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The best ones were the little spy-wheel devices some games used to have. I think Monkey Island had one of these, it had different combinations of pirate heads and bodies and the game would show you a pirate combination on screen and you'd have to spin the wheel to match the combo and type in the code revealed. It actually added to the gaming experience, you felt like James Bond every time you had to whip out the old code wheel.

    8. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by Devistater · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Take a look, they've done smashing so far: http://forums.galciv2.com/?AID=105470 They've sold out of thier first printing, and the orders for the next printing EXCEED the first. This is UNHEARD OF for a game to sell more as it gets older. 99.99% of time, games sell the most in the first couple weeks. BTW, I bought this game, its GREAT!

    9. Re:Old methods of copy protection... by bonk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's amazing, isn't it? A company produces a solid, FUN game that isn't a hassle to play (other than it asking for your serial # when you download patches) and doesn't contain draconian measures that get in the way of playing (i'm talking to you, mister game that wants me to insert the cd even though you don't read anything off of it once you've started) and people want to play it?! And they're willing to pay for the pleasure? A company that doesn't treat it's paying customers and potential customers as potential thieves?

      I love Galactic Civ II - best game to keep me clicking without realizing it is now 3am. And I love Stardock now, for producing the game in such a fashion.

      --
      I hope to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming like his passengers.
  2. We did it in the 70's! by msbsod · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > In the late '80s and early '90s, the games industry could do little more than ask nicely that you not pirate their wares.

    What? I was able to put a 16 byte sector inside a 256 byte sector, which itself was located inside a 1024 byte sector, on a floppy, in the late 70's. Even the best copy programs had a hard time to crack that. I have produced things like that and I have seen others doing similar things. Most people could not copy such games. And hey, there were always people who knew how to do it and there will always be such people.

  3. Caught in the middle by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to steal software left and right (please feel free to tell me how it isn't theft so I can summarily ignore you). Then about 8 years ago, I really thout about it and deleted anything illegal, or outright bought it (very expensive conviction, let me tell you ).

    I don't illegally copy, and don't think anyone should. Yet I am annoyed by all the inconveniences that I have to put up with in the name of protecting someone's profits. Registering crap, difficulties in backing up. Annoying requirements to periodically validate, etc. I will return products if they are too invasive. I am tired of being assumed guilty.

    Yet, I see nothing improving. I fear than in 20 years we will look back at this era and view it as a "golden age of computing". Things will be locked down so tight, and all software will be pay-as-you-go.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    1. Re:Caught in the middle by umbrellasd · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yet, I see nothing improving. I fear than in 20 years we will look back at this era and view it as a "golden age of computing". Things will be locked down so tight, and all software will be pay-as-you-go.
      And I will be outside gardening, which I like to think of as programming the biggest computer there is.

      Someday we will have DRM for nature, too...because we are idiots.

      Then we'll all be wiped out by the natural equivalent of a DRM violater, a virus, and in the waning hour of our species we'll wonder why it seemed reasonable to associate imaginary monetary unit value with a particular breed of rose, and why we thought we, as interesting but limited programs in the Great Simulation, thought we could realistically prohibit the Universe from doing as it sees fit with the codes that it has created age after age without any input from us.

      And the answer is pretty simple. We have an unmitigated greed for stuff and more stuff. Which means eventually, we'll all get stuffed.

    2. Re:Caught in the middle by DSP_Geek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nature DRM? How does Monsanto suing farmers for sowing their land with second generation seeds of its products sound?

      http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsanto/bigbeans0 22602.cfm
      http://www.library.yale.edu/~llicense/ListArchives /0311/msg00010.html
      http://www.chattoogariver.org/index.php?req=monsan to&quart=Su2005

    3. Re:Caught in the middle by cgenman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Whenever I buy a game, the first thing I do is run the No-CD crack on it. Then I scour my system for the anti-piracy security software and spend 1/2 hour deleting it. If you don't think those things sap resources, try saying that after you've had a machine for 6 years and installed 30 or 40 different games with competing security systems.

      Then I generally have about 10 minutes left to play the game before real life rears it's ugly head.

      I've moved back largely to console games. It just isn't worth an hour or two of hassle to play a game that is legally purchased. At a time when publishers should be pushing to raise the value of the retail product, instead it is much easier to get an illegal copy with the useless crap stripped out than to live with the restrictions the box set forces upon you. I don't have the slightest idea where my copy of Empires: Dawn of the Modern World is, and so if I wanted to play it without the No-CD crack I'd be out of luck. And I worked on that thing!

      As a side note, most of the people I've spoken to in the industry don't like copyprotection schemes. But everyone feels that if they don't use them, they will be liable to their shareholders. It's the safe option. And the toothbrush salesmen look to Macromedia (or whoever)'s presentations on how 1st month sales can improve by 20% by investing 500,000 dollars in their scheme. They're not math deficient, they just forget sometimes that ticking off your customers does not make for a happy client base.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    4. Re:Caught in the middle by Dunkirk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've moved back largely to console games. It just isn't worth an hour or two of hassle to play a game that is legally purchased.

      You've really hit the nail on the head, here. I've been a huge PC gamer for about 15 years now. In fact, I just spent last Saturday evening at a friend's house playing some games, and his teenage son could not get over my vast collection of games. (I introduced him to Outlaws for the first time, and he loved it!) After all this time, though, I find I'm getting more and more put out with gaming on a PC. However, it's not even about the DRM for me. That's just the tip of the iceberg. I know that's the topic in this discussion, but if we're talking about the hassles of PC gaming, let's talk about:

      • Patching the game
        If you haven't played in a couple months, and the game's less than 5 years old, you'd probably better check on a patch. Just last Saturday, we were playing UT2004... there's been a patch released in the past few months.
      • Driver updates
        Be sure to keep these up to date as well, or face blue screens.
      • Upgrades
        Whether you're trying to improve performance, or add new functionality, I think most "gamers" are the type to hack their boxes, and it gets to be a hassle. And sometimes, your machine is out of commission when you "just want to play a game."
      • Obsolesence
        Speaking of upgrades, I can't. My machine is a dual Athlon XP with a GeForce 6600GT. It might play the games coming out now, but, if it does, I'll have to shut off enough of the eye candy so as to make it look like a game that was -- wait for it -- released 3 years ago!

      Adding to these are the hassles of dragging the machine someplace else to play at a LAN party. Is it anyone else's fault but mine that I've spent money putting together a dual, and just spent money making a MythTV PVR, and now can't put $1000 toward a new gaming rig? No. That's just how I chose to spend my money. But it means I've also implicitly chosen not to play the latest, greatest games.

      What I'm saying, after all these years, is that I'm fine with that. Maybe it's that I'm getting older. Maybe. But I think it's just economics. Not just money, but the entire picture. The total hassle. When you buy a console. That's it. You might buy some nice controllers, maybe a better A/V cable, but that's about it. I'm ready for that kind of simplicity. Just pop in a DVD, and play. No drivers, no patches, no hassle.

      Inevitably, someone will argue that, with games like Half-Life 2 / Counter Strike Source, the PC platform is moving to a console-like model already, and I would agree. But the big difference here is that a PC, as a hardware platform, is such a difficult, fast-moving target to hit, and game makers are doing their best, but the experience will always be more "optimized" on a platform. Not better overall, necessarily, but it will take better advantage of the platform.

      And, on top of that, the platform will be subsidized ! What's the latest figure on how many hundreds Microsoft is losing per XBox 360? And how much is Sony estimated to lose per PS3? I think I can get with that! Sure the controls suck, but I can get used to them!

      There's another discussion going on about Vista and EFI, and I think it's missing the point. Microsoft doesn't care about whether Vista will run on Mac hardware. That's a strawman. Think about it. What's actually, truly new about Vista? That's right. Nothing except eye candy. And... your friend and mine: DRM. Microsoft doesn't want Vista to run on anything but a platform that they can "trust" down to the bare metal. If you haven't been paying attention, all the whining about TCPA or whatever it's called has had the exact same effect as did all the whining about the CPU identifier. Zippo. It's been going into our hardware for years now. And Vista will exploit all of

      --
      Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
  4. Re:I just don't by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If it's not Software Libre, I pretty much don't want to play it.

    Yeah, but i'm still waiting for the Open Source equivalent to Silent Hill... or Castlevania... or Indiana Jones...

    speaking of Indiana Jones, the Last Crusade game was awesome, to pass the game i didn't only have to figure out the clues, i had to study the authentic paperback edition of Henry Jones' diary that came with the game. I could admire the map of Alexandretta, or the mural paintings. I still remember myself looking for the cable Codirolli sent Indy's father, and searching for the grail's description in that.

    Now THAT's copy protection done right. Instead of annoying the user, it makes the gameplay even more realistic.

  5. Re:The problem.... by Psykosys · · Score: 4, Interesting
    You do have to use Daemon Tools or a similar program for the workaround/crack he's talking about, but you must also, as he says, unplug the drives or use separate software to fool the computer into their nonexistence (the latter only works with certain motherboards anyway). The D-Tools developers have been reluctant to add Starforce support, because it is updated so frequently and uses an insane number of protection measures (emulator-detection is just one of them). You can say a lot of mean things about Starforce, but it does work. I don't think anyone's cracked King Kong yet, for example, and by the time they do its sales peak will be over anyway.

    I tried this with an ISO of King Kong myself, solely for educational purposes obviously, and gave up very quickly. Then I had to use System Restore because my CD drives would not un-disappear...

  6. I won't install starforce by mikeswi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I flat refuse to install anything with StarForce on it. Google starforce and you'll see plenty of articles and rants about it.

    I have games that include SecureROM (GTA SA and VC) and SafeDisc (Sim City 3000) and I've never noticed them causing any problems or installing anything other than registry entries. StarForce, on the other hand, installs hidden device drivers, which totally fuck up a cd/dvd drive in some PCs. On some XP machines, it can cause actual physical damage to the burner. It also elevates access priviledges for user-level applications, although I can't imagine why the hell it does that.

    Fuck all that. Not on my machine.

    After seeing the commercials for Brothers in Arms, I decided to buy it. Then I noticed this disclaimer on the publisher's web site:
    "NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some DVD-RW, and virtual drives."

    I looked around and discovered it was StarForce, so I just put my credit card back in my wallet. Then I sent an email to the publisher to tell them they'd just lost a sale.

    Funny thing is, there are four different cracked copies of the game's .exe file at gamecopyworld. I'm sure I could find a copy of the whole game somewhere if I bothered to look. Not only did they lose a sale because of their anticopy software, it turns out the damned thing doesn't work anyway. Real good business decision there.

    --
    Only on /.
  7. Has any one cracked the Saturn by pluke · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A little off topic as this discussion is mainly PC based, but has anyone cracked the Saturn's copy protection yet? Unpopularity combined with a nasty unreadable track has left it uncracked for over 10 years now as far as i know

    --
    "all through my house i set up traps, it seems like the rats have a map, so now i feed the rats crack" - Donald D
  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. Old days by linuxkrn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I remember the old days of enter the third word found on page 5, line 2. I even remember the first time I got out the hex editor and found and changed all the words to 0x20 (space) or 0x0D (CR) to by pass it.

    Then there were the floppy disk protections that you had to use Copy2PC and neverlock or something like that... Ah CGA Testdrive, dating myself here...

    The last game I bought was Star Wars: Empire at War. It has SecureROM7 protection and detects and refuses to run on my virtual game drive. I legally own the game, and the game drive software, but can't use it. So I have to have the CD in drive to play. Okay, not so big a deal right? Well it refused to allow that to be running and wanted me to un-install it so all my OTHER games that do work with it would be affected.

    That combine with the extreme LOW quality of Electronic Arts games, I have finally given up on them. Just yesterday I went back and started playing old Star Control II. (now open sourced as http://sc2.sourceforge.net/">The Ur-Quan Masters) and having just as much if not more fun.

    And lets not forget http://freshmeat.net/projects/sdl_sopwith/">SDL Sopwith another CGA classic!

    New games are over priced, have poor game play and just don't entertain me anymore. The funny thing was, I think it was Star Control 1 that was one of the games that asked for word found on... that I cracked back then. Now SC2 is open source and free. Good times!

  10. Computer Software Rental Amendment Act of 1990 by snuf23 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Renting computer software without permission of the copyright holder was made illegal in the US by the Computer Software Rental Amendment Act of 1990.
    In a nutshell:

    On December 1, 1990, President Bush signed into law the "Computer Software Rental Amendments Act," an amendment of section 109 of the copyright law, prohibiting the rental, lease, or lending of a computer program for direct or indirect commercial gain unless authorized by the owner of copyright in the program. Behind the amendment was a concern that commercial rental of computer programs encourages illegal copying of the rented programs, depriving copyright owners of a return on their investment and discouraging creation of new works."

    Previous to this amendment, you could rent computer software. I used to rent software via the mail for the Commodore 64 and Amiga computers back in the '80s - long before GameFly.
    About the only thing you can do is buy used games on auctions sites like ebay or www.gameswapzone.com.

    --
    Sometimes my arms bend back.
  11. I pirate things I own!! by Anubis333 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am a bit late in this thread, but I actually pirate software I have paid for.

    That's right, I pay for a license, then download pirated copies. Why?

    Because the copy protection schemes are so intrusive, I just cannot stand them. I do a majority of my 3d work ona laptop, and I don't have USB ports to spare for my 2+ dongles, much less want to run the risk of the dongles being stolen, OR should I mention the fact that the laptop won't even fit in the fucking case with the dongle on OR the fact that the sentinel driver software for the dongle is unstable and I don't want another 3rd party service running. Games too.. I grab a NO-CD crack for every game I own. All the data is on the HD, why should I have to have the damn disc in my cd drive constantly spinning up and spinning down eating my battery power? Not to mention that it *renders the optical drive useless*. It's so obnoxious.

    1. Re:I pirate things I own!! by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So write to the company and request a refund for a defective product, then bring it to the attention of the newspaper when they tell you they won't. Newspapers love stories of companies ripping people off.

      --
      My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
  12. Re:The problem.... by dhakbar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm sure there's a good reason, because StarForce 3 has been around for quite a while and many of the games it "protects" are still not conveniently cracked (Splinter Cell comes to mind).

  13. Why i want to pirate by josteos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I was young & in my prime (and an underemployed student) I rarely bought anythign but instead ogt "free" versions from friends.

    I'm employed, and a father, and now I buy the games.

    My 3.5yo son loves robots. So last week I bought the LEGO Star Wars game. He has no clue who R2D2 is, but dammit, he knows R2 is a robot, so he wants to play! My boy was crying he was so excited to play the game.

    The install was slow, but it it was copying media to the HD, so thats fine. I'll sacrifice space for speed. After a few minutes it finished and I started the game. My boy was holding a joystick, staring at the screen, and just shaking. I thought he was gonna start seizing.

    "Wrong Disc Inserted"

    Yeah, turns out EIDOS released a version of the game with defective copy protection. Their website flat out tells you that the disc is defective if it says "Disc 1" in yellow text on the disk. Ours does. We bought this year-old game brand frickin new, and its defective. And EIDOS knew it. Their website gives you a number to call to order a replacement.

    http://support.eidosinteractive.com/GI/CustomerSup port/FaqSearchResults.jsp?problemType=3&searchText =&game=177&platform=3

    So instead of 'splaining to junior that EIDOS quality control needs a kick to the sack, I hit up good ol'gamecopyworld and found a no-cd crack. Game starts right on up. The downside is the cracked version is not what I'd call stable, so I'm gonna have to send off for a replacement CD anyway, but at least we can keep the boy playing with robots until EIDOS sends the replacement.

    So if EIDOS knows they released a bad batch, then why haven't they recalled the shitty ones & replaced them already? Strike one for EIDOS. I'd tell them I was so pissed that I refuse to buy the next Boobraider, except Lara Croft bored me to tears so it would be an empty threat.

    I think the copy protection of Steam & CD-keys works very well. I don't find Steam intrusive; I don't have a problem with it. I never "loan" out cdkeys because I'm keen on not getting banned. Of course, these work best on online games.

    --
    Save the Music; Save the World at http://www.TuneTriever.com (Our latest Android game)
  14. Re:I remember using Locksmith and such in the 70's by msbsod · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Apple II was (and still is) also good to produce copy-proteced disks for computers with a floppy controller of the Western Digital family. Format a track with the WD controller, put the floppy into an Apple, write the same track with the Apple "controller" (it is actually just a shift register) for a brief moment and interrupt the procedure so that only a small fraction of the track gets overwritten. The Apple does not care about the index hole and starts to write at a random location. With a bit of luck you overwrite just a fraction of a sector written by the WD controller. Repeat until you succeed. The Apple writes the data with a different clock frequency than the WD controller. Thus every time you read the prepared disk with a WD controller, the WD controller's pll oscillator fails to synchronize with the bits of the manipulated sector on the floppy. Consequently the controller produces random information, plus a checksum error, every time you try to read the manipulated sector, very much like a hole punched into the floppy disk. From the outside the disks looks perfectly fine. And there is no way to duplicate that without a lot of effort, certainly not with a standard controller. This scheme still works today for PCs. The PCs floppy controller is just a clone of a NEC controller, which itself is a clone of the WD controller.

  15. Re:DRM Victim by theelemur · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What does the EULA say? Most say you can get a refund if you do not agree with the license and return the game.

  16. Re:Blame the operating system by jonwil · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The answer is not to put each program into its own folder...
    The answer is for each program to register everything it needs (non-shared program files, shared program files, registry keys etc etc) in a central database.
    Then, an inteligent uninstaller can remove the program.
    When the last program claiming "I need this file" is removed, the file is removed.
    Combine this with a decent way to prevent "dll hell" (i.e. any new release of a dll that is not backwards compatible with old releases gets a new filename etc like unix has had since day one or so) and most of the problems go away.
    Any program that installs itself can never install a dll that will break other programs (since it can only ever install a dll that is the same as what is already there or one that is newer but still backwards compatible with what is already there) and it would be simple to uninstall.

    Patches, upgrades, expansion packs, addons, mods and service packs would either be things that install stand-alone and dont touch the main program (in which case they get seperate uninstall entries) or they modify the install entry for the host program (e.g. patches simply update the host program install entry)

    Also, this system would allow for dependancies so that one program can be dependant on another program. For example, you wouldnt be able to uninstal "microsoft office" while "Voice Recognition 2000 for microsoft office" (say) is still installed and dependant on microsoft office for its functionality.

    And, this could be used to provide a simple way to backup configuration data (every item registered would be marked with a flag indicating if it was something that should be backed up as part of the configuration data or not)

    Going to the example of Starforce protection, every game that uses it registers that it needs the starforce drivers and dlls.
    When you uninstall the last game that needs it, the drivers would be removed.

  17. Playing with the cd/dvd in drive.. by Zanthrox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What really annoys me about games that require the cd/dvd in the drive is they won't actually run from the cd/dvd. Back in the DOS days some of the first cd games were quite well behaved -- they'd save a few savegame or config files on the hd, and run the rest from the cd.

    I'd rather just pop in a DVD in my nice fast DVD-ROM game and have it play all the movies and load game data from there. I know HD space is cheap these days, but it seems inexcusable to require users to have cutscenes they'll only see once loaded on their hard drive..

    Playing from cd works for game consoles..it should (still) work for PCs too.

  18. Visa by phorm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My friend, this is why I make my purchases on Visa. If it don't work, backcharge. In most cases, when nobody else supports you, and the big guys are big enough that they can happily screw you, Visa will still bend them over, because they are bigger.

  19. Re:The problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Agreed. I just purchased a brand new copy of GTA San Andreas for PC two hours ago. After installing and trying to run it, my DVD drive stays active for a solid minute and then a message pops up saying that disc authentication took too long. When I click retry, it accesses the drive for another 10 seconds or so, then says it can't authenticate with an "OK" button. This pisses me off, since I have essentially bought a $20 coaster. Nowhere on the packaging does it say that there is any kind of DVD copy protection requirement or anything.

    When I checked the readme and Rockstar's site, they make no mention of this problem, though many forums do. Now I've downloaded a disc crack and hope it works.

  20. Re:The problem.... by StillAnonymous · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Oh yeah, forgot to mention: These guys don't use standard windows calls to access the CD/DVD drive either. They hit the hardware directly. Try this with a game protected with a starforce v3.5+:

    Disable optical drives in the BIOS, boot into windows, put the original CD in the drive and run the game.

    It'll spin up the drive and manage to authenticate the disc.

  21. Bah! by WWWWolf · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "In the late '80s and early '90s, the games industry could do little more than ask nicely that you not pirate their wares.

    Annoying copy protection existed back then. We once mailed a Commodore 64 game collection back to the store because two of the four games didn't work. They came back with a note: "The games work just fine! If they don't, flip the disk drive to stand on its side." I flipped the disk drive to vertical position and lo! The games worked.

    But yeah, I really fear about over-enthusiastic copy protection. Back in the 64 days, I didn't play some of the games I couldn't copy with my ordinary floppy duplicator or cartridge's freezer. I was kind of worried about wearing down the floppies (never mind that 99% of my C64 floppies still work.)

    And now, I have one game that has StarForce in it. Assuming I had a Windows 2000 or better, which I don't (unless you count Linux as "better", har har har ho ho ho), I'd need some intricate procedures to play the game, like powering down, opening the case, disconnecting the hard drive that has Linux, installing a spare HD, closing the case, installing the operating system on it, and then the games, and play. Yeah, insane compartmentalization just to play a few games! Why? Heard rumors that Starforce can hose entire HDs. Would not be fun to lose Linux partitions due to some idiotic copy protection scheme?

    I'm also kind of worried about another thing - legislating the copy protection. Here we have things like Starforce or the Sony CD copy protection, they're trivial to break with a little bit of hackery, but hey, that's illegal. People can get away with killing people if the person in question was trying to kill them, but it's not okay to protect your own data and information confidentiality from insidious copy protection systems that are trying to destroy your stuff! Would it be use arguing that breaking a known, provenly harmful copy protection system is nothing but self-defense? Hmm...

  22. Lenslock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you bought Elite for the Sinclair Spectrum in the mid 80's you got a small prismatic viewer that you had to hold to your screen so you could read a graphically scrambled code to then type back in. I think it was called the Lensloc or something like that.

  23. Learn the god-damned law by glesga_kiss · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...and stop being such a wimp. There is no way in hell this is legal in your country. If it doesn't work, you get your money back. All you need to do is learn and quote the specific law and you get your money back straight away. The magic phrase here in the UK is "it's not fit for purpose" in this case.

  24. Starforce IS malware by StephanTual · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Very simple proof: I got a PATA cdrom, a SATA hdd and a firewire dvd burner.
    Bought a starforce game (never again I might add), installed it on a clean xp pro image.

    From then on the firewire dvd burner started disappearing from the list of drives at random and the machine would take forever to boot. I ended up having to reboot my machine everytime I wanted to burn a cd, and pray the drive would reappear - after a 5 minute wait for the login screen to go away.

    Removed the game, removed the starforce drivers (a utility is available from their site)

    My firewire drive came back to life and it no longer takes 5 minutes to boot.

    Conclusion: Starforce IS malware.

  25. Sleeper hit Galactic Civilization 2, UT2k4, etc by Devistater · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Meanwhile we have a sleeper hit called Galactic Civilizations 2
    www.galciv2.com
    It has NO ZIP ZERO NONE copy protection at all. Instead, they give feature filled updates and patches that require a valid serial # to download.
    Here's what the latest patch does (and this was done in just a week or two, unlike the just announced and badly needed to fix critical issues Battle for Middle Earth Patch that wont be ready for release for a month):
    http://www.galciv2.com/Journals.aspx?AID=104660
    Notice that while there's a good amount of bug fixes (lots of it stuff most people wouldn't even notice) there's also a lot of added features and game content.
    Here's an example of what fans have done in ship design in the game, incredible stuff:
    http://forums.galciv2.com/?AID=105823
    They just sold through thier first printing run after a couple weeks after release. And the 2nd batch of orders EXCEEDS the initial order! This is frigging UNHEARD of. No game sells more copies weeks after release than the first weeks. (except maybe half life 1, and that was from the most popular online FPS in the world, a free mod incidentally, called Counter Strike). And this from a game with no copy protection.
    THIS is the model that should be pursued by game companies, improve the game as an incentive to buy it. Actually multiplayer games that let you only play online with a valid serial is a good method in and of itself to encourage purchasing a legit copy of a game. I've never understood why they felt the need to add additional copy protection if the main game that people are interested in is multiplayer.
    Or at least companies should adapt the alternative model below:

    Epic games has a great model I wish companies would emulate. After a few months to a year, they will often release a patch which REMOVES all cd based copy protection (you still need a valid serial to play online). Its GREAT not to have to put in the Unreal Tournament 2004 (UT2k4) DVD anymore when I want to play the game. I just click and go! After all, most copy protection is only designed to just delay a crack from being released on the internet. If it can just be delayed for a couple weeks (or even a few days), they get over the biggest amount of sales and pre-orders, and all the people desperate to play will probably have bought it. Even the copy protection people admit that its practicaly inevitable that a game will get cracked, they just hope to delay it. And almost always, the pain, suffering, incompatability and annoyances are mostly felt by LEGITIMATE CONSUMERS who have a purchased game! The pirate will just go grab a crack somewhere and apply it and hes set.

    Anyway this is just my 2 cents. And all the above without mentioning the thing that is called Starforce. I'd better not say anything about that or else I could get sued:
    http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/31/starforce_thr eatens_.html

  26. Re:The problem.... by sbrown123 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So true. I bought a copy of Sacred for my computer some months back from Walmart. The problems went as such:

    1. First, it didn't like my virtual CD drive software. Even though the software was not running, it wouldn't let me start the game until the offending software was completely removed from my computer.

    2. The game would not work because I had anti-virus software running. I had to manually turn off the anti-virus software. Since it was Norton AntiVirus, this was quite a chore. And since I always wanted the anti-virus software running on my computer on startup, I refused to uninstall the anti-virus software or keep it turned off.

    3. It demanded that I had to load it from my DVD drive instead of the CD drive (and mind you that this is CD media, not a DVD). Unlike the DVD drive, I rarely use my CD drive so I figured just keeping the Sacred CD in the drive would save me having to load and unload the game disc whenever I wanted to play the game. Nope. Can't do that.

    4. Booting the game took forever and dragged my system almost to a halt. Durign this time, my DVD drive made some sickening sounds as it was started and stopped multiple times.

    5. After all the above, the game would still sometimes not run. I joined the voices of many others screaming at the company for producing this pile of steaming crap. All they could do was say they were working with the copy protection software company to resolve the problems. Waiting.....waiting....

    Annoyed, I downloaded a "no-cd" hack. I can't play the game online, but I CAN play the game. Thats all I ever wanted to do. This hack solved all my problems. I didn't need the game CD in the drive anymore so I could play the game when I wanted to without hunting for the game CD. My anti-virus software could remain running. My virtual CD software could remain installed. The game started in seconds!

    Ofcourse, Sacred will get an update in the very near future that will make the hack not work anymore and I will once again be stuck with a game I don't want to run because of its copy protection. :(

  27. Worked out ok thus far by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    According to them:

    "Today something unprecedented happened -- for us anyway. Several retail chains re-ordered more units in a single go than their initial order. EB Canada, for instance re-ordered a very large number. Yay Canada!

    See, typically what happens at retail is that you get your initial "sell-in". Re-orders are only designed to bring stocking levels back to that initial sell-in level. So over time, the game fades away. It's very unusual for a game to actually increase its retail stocking after the release.

    So now we're in unknown territory. We no longer have any idea how many units the game will sell. The first one sold roughly 75,000 units in North America and roughly that many overseas / electronic. We've shipped around 50,000 so far and we're starting to run into a back order so availability is going to get tight in the coming days as we're now rush manufacturing another batch to handle."

    Looks like it's working out ok to me.