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The Pirate Bay is Here to Stay?

vitaly.friedman wrote to mention a Wired article about The Pirate Bay, a file-sharing crewe out of Sweden that thumbs its nose at the MPAA just for kicks and has yet to be shut down. From the article: "The Pirate Bay's legal adviser, law student Mikael Viborg, said the site receives 1,000 to 2,000 HTTP requests per second on each of its four servers. That's bad news for the content industries, which have fired off letter after menacing letter to the site, only to see their threats posted on The Pirate Bay, together with mocking replies. Viborg said that no one has successfully indicted The Pirate Bay or sued its operators in Swedish courts. Attorneys for DreamWorks and Warner Bros., two companies among those that have issued take-down demands to the site, did not return calls for comment."

47 of 956 comments (clear)

  1. (Don't) Call Your Congressman! by dada21 · · Score: 4, Interesting


    I always love when people think that writing or calling their elected official makes a hill of beans of difference. For me, all it generally did was give me a nice elated feeling when I received a signed letter in the mail thanking me for my opinion, and then writing a paragraph about why their decisions would never change.

    I've lately become a firm believer in wasting the time of the company that has used the power of government against me -- in this case, the content and distribution cartels (RIAA, MPAA). Instead of calling your elected official, call the companies themselves and keep moving up the ladder with the fact that you have a general complaint about their products. Don't accept the underlings and don't tell them exactly what it is you're mad about. If that doesn't work, call up their sales department and work your way up the ladder there requesting information about their services.

    The slashdot effect is great on the Internet, but it is even more powerful on the phones. Each and every server request you make costs any one company very little. Each and every phone call you make gets heard, at least in the bottom line.

    I'm not telling people to do anything illegal -- don't hassle, don't spam, don't swear, don't threaten -- just call. Call and tell them you don't appreciate their actions, you don't appreciate their products, and you don't appreciate their lobbying to creatre a more powerful Congress.

    I know my phone calls don't make a difference -- yet. But over time, as more people realize that voting with their dollars and voting with how they spend their time, we'll see change being made through a free market of motivations.

    To stay a bit on topic: I recently spent quite a bit of time researching the Swedes, and I'm very surprised at the amounts of freedoms they had in a country that has typically been considered socialist. I think they'd be a dream country for most Progressives (which means it would be a nightmare for me), but it surprises me how many rights they still retain that we gave up in the US a long, long time ago. The freedom to do what you want with products you physically own is a great freedom, in fact I believe it is the basis for freedom. The freedom to do what you want with your labor and your mind is included in that freedom, and that is why I am against intellectual property rights in every way.

    Go TPB!

    1. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by MikeBabcock · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You made a great comment that reminds me of something I've always been annoyed by as a canadian -- socialism is not contrary to freedom. Socialism is in fact designed to be freedom, freedom from poverty and medical expenses as well as personal freedom.

      Socialism is simply contrary to pure capitalism, which obviously doesn't work (see neighbour, USA). Plenty of imprisonned people with no access to lawyers, lots of people living in complete poverty in major centers, no easy access to medical services for those without insurance, no easy access to pharmeceuticals to those not in the middle and high income brackets.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    2. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Slashdotting phones and fax machines are extremely useful. It got many of hacker out of jail really early. It also recently helped release a man in california that was arrested for growing pot that he used medically to control his rare cancer. he fled to canada to seek asylum and canada being the United States good lap-dog sent him right back to awaiting arms of DEA officers and directly to jail.

      He recently was released because of non-stop phone calls to the jail, judge, and municipality causing their phones and fax machines to be 100% useless.

      I do not have any links to the above. I listened to it on several radio talk shows at the beginning of this year.

      but shashdotting a companies phones and faxes for days will certianly get their attention as well as action.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by mobiux · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think it's state-owned property, the state allows the corporations to retain ownership and just rent/lease it out to people as they see fit.

      It's more of a rentocracy than anything.

      They don't want to sell you a product, they want to sell you a service.

    4. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's actually happening is that we're treating medicine like a commodity. When you are selling a product that most anybody would pay almost anything for, and everybody's going to need it eventually, you're going to see skyrocketing prices.

      Well, it is a commodity - there is supply and demand. Prices are only high when supply is low relative to demand - put enough doctors out there and prices will drop. A big problem is that medical schools and the AMA work to limit the supply of doctors - in order to maintain high prices.

      Why is it that every medical school in the country has hundreds of applicants for each seat, and yet none seem to desire to add capcity, and no new schools open up? What would happen if there was a mob outside of CompUSA begging for computers, which sold for $10,000 the instant the truck pulled up?

      The market actually works fairly well, but in this case the market is not freely operating - a number of establishments are conspiring to limit the supply side, and the overreaction on the part of government is to attempt to regulate the demand side by fixing prices. The problem with this approach is that it can lead to shortages (ie lines).

      Potential health care providers aren't stupid - they figure out what people are willing to pay for, and provide this service. If people aren't willing to pay for life-saving treatments they'll apply their R&D efforts to viagra and cosmetic surgery, or they'll go into other fields of study...

    5. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by glesga_kiss · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Pure socialism is pure totalitarianism.

      Where did you study politics? I need to register a complaint about their standard of teaching. Never before have I heard such a lunatic suggestion. Socialism is an ecconomic system; it does not require or mutually exclude democracy (which is a political system). Socialsm dictates different "ownership" of property and land, and what you can do with it. If you see owning land as a "freedom", then you really ought to read up on what freedom really entails. Possessions and healthcare aren't freedom; the freedom of expression/religion and such like are.

      There are many socialist countries in Europe with more freedom (i.e. less totalitarianism) than the Capitalist states of the world. And there are many capitalist states with really represive regimes. Hell, I've seen people arguing that the USA is moving closer to totalitairism every day. Two years ago, standing out against the Iraq war was a bad career move for politicians. They were deemed unpatriotic and a danger to the security of the USA and were exiled. Capitalism allows freedom only when it doesn't get in the way of a profit.

    6. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by dada21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, and you're free to "mimic" any music you hear.

      I can? Not with copyright. If I see someone shoveling a hole in the ground and I believe I can shovel a hole better, I am free to go and sell my labor (my time, my body, me) to someone else, mimicing the original guy entirely without giving him any compensation. Yet if I want to do the same thing with my voice, mimicing the voice box motions, I have to pay a fee. That isn't freedom.

      Now, what is it the Pirate Bay is copying that you own?

      The Pirate Bay is not stealing anything from anyone -- all they are doing is sharing the work of others -- others took the time to mimic the data that someone else decided to distribute without protecting it physically. If I want to hide my secret shovel techniques, I should put a box around it and not let anyone see. The same is true with content -- if you don't want it reproduced, don't make it.

      The Pirate Bay was never authorized by the artist or anyone else to distribute the music.

      And yet they didn't force the artist to lose any labor agaisnt their will -- the Pirate Bay just took the labors of others and found people interested in using that labor of others. The "others" here are labeled pirates, but I see them more as people who are selling themselves too cheaply.

      So if I take a camera into a concert and record it and sell copies of the recording for $1 a piece, that's okay? Even though my labor involved recording someone else's labor, that other person is just out of luck?

      First of all, when you go to a show, you're usually on someone else's property. The right to property should mean that the property owner can tell the visitor what rules to follow -- no cameras, no drugs, no clothes, no talking, no blacks, no women, no midgets, whatever. It is there property. If they say it is cool to take pictures on their property, go right ahead.

      And if someone decided to take your book, print it, and sell it, they should be able to without your permission. If they were to choose to change it a bit, that's up to them. After all, they're "mimicing" it, and mimicry isn't always exact.

      I openly allow this, and I actually love it when I find others mimicing my words -- it is a great form of marketing for the original author. In a free market, companies like Google would offer tools to track down who exactly originated a certain creation -- words, lyrics, tunes, whatever. If an artist wanted to make sure the world knew who wrote the song, they could register the song with a variety of Wayback Machine style sites -- archivers, cachers, whatever. When someone wanted to find out who was the first person to write "Happy Birthday" they could go to these archiving sites or companies and find the truth. Anyone else is free to mimic the tune, but they won't get the recognition, and the recognition is a key factor in selling or marketing your labor.

    7. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by metlin · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yes. The US is most certainly successful, in ways that Denmark or Sweden would never be.

      Your comparison is flawed for a number of reasons. For one, Scandinavian countries are extremely small in comparison, and they started out with a relatively higher standard of living to begin with. On the contrary, the US is a settlement of immigrants, so to speak.

      Both in terms of size and number, US is much, much bigger and much more diverse.

      Secondly, the US is extremely open to immigrants - the number of people of various cultures and ethnicities that move into the US every year makes it easy for us to attract new talent. In a socialist system, this would not be possible because the system would not be self-sustaining and the strain on the system would not balance itself against the benefits.

      And finally, for a state of this size and this diversity, we need a system where the fittest survive - and capitalism provides that. The best come, and the best move up the ladder. If the US were a closed, monocultural society with a small (and possibly non-growing) population and a small area, then maybe a socialist state might be possible (not necessarily good, though).

      Socialism in any form forgets the fact that we evolved from the fittest - capitalism is a system that lets the fittest fight his or her way to the top, and letting the rest die out. Nature does not know and does not show empathy to the weak. There are predators and there are prey.

    8. Re:(Don't) Call Your Congressman! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Soviet Union was in fact socialist. As far as that went (education, medical care etc), it worked just fine.

      As for the USA being the most powerful country in the world - this says nothing about how good it is to live in such a country; nor it is evident that it is the advantage of capitalist economy. The USSR, when it existed, was also a very powerful country, arguably on par with the USA. This has nothing to do with economy, and everything with what some people call "imperial approach". The USSR and the USA are (were) both empires.

  2. No heros to be cheered at. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only thing these guys will get done, is Draconian copyright DCMA-like laws to be passed in Schweden.

    So they shoot normal people in the foot, even if they use OpenBSD.

  3. Long Live the Pirate Bay! by David+Webb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    it's great to see someone that is anti esteblishment stay strong and alive in the face of big business and big government. Power to the People!

  4. Re:How to be popular by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, I'm already convinced. It's good.

    For all the damage these industries cause honest and would-be honest customers, they deserve a true thorn in their sides. For all the monopolistic and oligopolistic crap they pull; For all the price-fixing and other dirty tricks; For all the innocent people they have attacked with their lawsuit crusades. We have no effective weapon against their activities since they have already bought all the politicians that are for sale. All we have is our defiance.

    It's good even if it's not good enough.

  5. Re:The Atlantic barrier works both ways huh? by Stavr0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is nothing stopping the ??AA from connecting to the tracker, logging the U.S. based IP addresses, then sending out subopenas to the ISPs of said IPs. And haven't they been doing that already?

  6. Sweden vs US Capitalism by Bluude · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My favorite was when they moved the servers to a new location across town. They even put up a GPS map showing their exact location so everyone would know how soon the site would be back up.

    They must believe their country will protect them instead of hunting them down and arresting them.

    I wonder if their government will still protect them when the US threatens to impose trade sanctions if they do not get rid of The Pirate Bay. Janet Reno did that with Australia and they caved soon after. Now Australia has some of the toughest copyright laws in the world. I think they are even harsher than the US equivalents.

    1. Re:Sweden vs US Capitalism by liangzai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Swedish government is not known to protect its citizens very well. Recently, the Justice Department and the security police caused the shut-down of a political party's website because of a cartoon of Muhammed looking at himself in the mirror with a blindfold, with the accompanying text "self-censorship". That is just about the tolererance level the Swedish government has.

      Sweden is also notorious for being a leader in the EU implementing repressive laws in general and on the Internet in particular. The recent EU Data Directive is essentially one man's work, Swedish Justice minister Thomas Bodstrom, a former football player who smoked dope, somehow managed to become a lawyer and then to everybody's surprise was turned into minister of justice, on which position he has drafted more laws than anyone in history and effectively flushed personal integirty down the toilet. The directive, since long before in effect in Sweden, makes it mandatory for ISP:s to save customers' internet traffic data for at least two years. Other repressive measures in Sweden include a law against writing about other persons without their express permission unless being a journalist.

      Sweden has also joined the ranks of the filter regimes, using DNS spoofing and other sabotages to the infrastructure to redirect pornsurfers looking for kiddie porn to a government website. It is not by law, but by cooperation with all the larger ISP:s (under threat of legislation).

      You might also wonder why Sweden has not voiced concern over Chinese journalists being jailed in China. Well, that is because Sweden has had its own Shi Tao since the 70s, Jan Guillou (and Peter Bratt), who investigated and reported about an illegal spy organisation (Inormation Bureau) and subsequently was put to jail for espionage.

      One might have the impression that Sweden is a free and modern welfare state, but those days are since long gone. Today's Sweden is the leading oppressor in Europe, with no-tolerance laws on everything from gambling to prostitution and drugs. The Swedish government sees the Internet mostly as an outlet for hate speech, porn and illegal downloading, and if they would decide to shut down the Pirate Bay during a lunch break, it would be done in a matter of minutes by a simple phone call.

  7. Re:How to be popular by David+Webb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If there were no movies and no t.v. due to piracy? I would cheer that the world had taken a shift for the better. I on occasion watch movies, however our entertainment options are used to placate us as a people. This way we don't think about our own failings. Nor do we strive to improve ourselves educationally and compete against the wealthy for the better jobs. We stand by as companies institute 401ks and do away with defined benefits plans. As we are sold out to big business and big government. As we're told that we don't need unions. That gold and silver are things we don't want to invest in. That we should buy buy buy but you better not go bankrupt! If we could get rid of movies and T.V. then perhaps people would think for themselves a little more and be more conserned with quality education. Keeping our jobs here and not outsourced. Concerned about invasion of privacy by the NSA, FBI and whomever else wishes to use the power that they were entrusted with in a corrupt and manipulative manner. If Piracy could bring down our now traditional big businesses then let piracy reign. I understand that many people would suffer but this would only bring about a greater good. We need to teach big business and big government that the people as a whole still make and break and rewrite the rules for the greater good.

  8. Re:How to be popular by richie2000 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    there is no difference taking content this way and going to a store and stealing a CD or DVD.

    *sigh* Yes, there is. If I have a hammer and you also want a hammer so you copy my hammer by manufacturing one yourself, just like mine, have you just stolen my hammer then? Even though I still have my hammer, right here? Because that's actually what you're saying.

    You cannot make a big budget action movie by 'touring', 'selling merchandise' or any of the self-satisfied rationalizations people have suggested that musicians turn to.

    No, but you can't realistically build a real movie theater at home either. Any way value is added, it can be exploited to drive sales of a good or a service. In Singapore, movie theaters have luxury seats and serve meals as an added value to the movie. Economically, there is no longer any added value in making a copy so it should not be used as the basis for value. Economics 101.

    References:
    Mindjack - Piracy is good?
    International Herald Tribune - Imagine a world without copyright
    A History And Possible Future Of Cinema
    First Monday - Piercing the myths of p2p
    TV Week - NBC: iPod Boosts Prime Time
    Stealing Music
    Roderick T. Long - The Libertarian Case Against Intellectual Property Rights

    --
    Money for nothing, pix for free
  9. The future of movies by typical · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The sad part is that a large number of slashdotters will convince themselves that this type of thing is good despite the fact that the site is very clearly engaged in theft.

    Copyright infringement. If you're complaining about people playing mind games, you can at least have the decency to avoid doing the same thing yourself in the same sentence.

    It costs $200 million to make some movies. If people stop paying to make the movies then that type of movie will not get made in the future.

    This is the real issue. Not whether something is "right" or "wrong" -- those are just social norms that have been instilled in people -- but the pragmatic issues.

    Currently, the fact that people pay to see movies allows the funding of the creation of said movies. If you endorse infringement, you need one of a couple of justifications:

    (a) It's going to happen anyway -- in the presence of a worldwide system (the Internet) designed to cheaply replicate and distribute data, content funded on the predicate that duplication is hard and expensive cannot exist. That means an end is going to come to this funding system, at least for movies in the $200 million scale. Regardless of the methods used, social pressure to not infringe is not going to be effective. We will not be able to make movies that require $200 million in resources in the future -- movie prices will have to drop far enough that the convenience is worth the purchase. Future movies will have to be more thrift-oriented -- if this causes a drop in the enjoyment factor of movies, then that drop will occur. I know some people that dislike those "big budget action movies" that would probably fall into (a).

    (b) Infringing movie usage does not damage movie sales. People will continue to go to theaters as the same level as before (well, sans the bite taken away by home theaters), but just spend a larger amount of time viewing movies, as they will infringe on some additional movies.

    (c) Movies will continue to make as much money, but by using alternate approaches (like product placement or commercials) that are not affected by redistribution.

    (d) Movies can be sold on a viable non-redistributable medium, but some type of DRM-enabled device will be used and this one will actually work.

    Remember that, as technologies change, policies we use have adapted to fit the times. I'm quite certain that, in one form or another, the movie-making industry will be around in fifty years. The printing press, the cassette recorder, the VHS tape, home entertainment systems -- all have had significant impact on how content was provided, but content continued to be provided via one mechanism or another.

    For example, the drive-in theater is pretty much dead today because of TVs and movie-playing systems at home. People rent tapes, which was a mechanism that really wasn't expected by anyone to make a lot of money at one point (and, in fact, was expected to kill the movie industry at one point).

    It may be by simply instituting policy capable of fighting off all infringement; my personal guess is that the movie industry will instead morph and twist and adapt in one way or another. It may even be one that we haven't dreamed of yet. History supports this idea.

    --
    Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
  10. If they fly to the U.S. by mindaktiviti · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Would they be prosecuted? And if so, then that would be a bad thing.

    I'm just curious in case they ever in their life times ever want to visit the U.S. for whatever reason, and then they end up being on some terrorist watch list because of their involvement with the Pirate Bay.

    From the pdf announcement:

    ...Newsgroups are electronic bulletin boards which in recent years have become a major source of pirated content as users are able to attach movie, music and games files to their messages. The following is a list of the sites being sued by the MPAA and its member companies.

    Recent years? Try over 10 years ago. (from my knowledge anyway, probably closer to 15-20)

  11. A silly question but ... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... why would a web site trying to avoid being shut down by the MPAA/RIAA/etc. give itself a name called "The PIRATE Bay"??? Isn't this just a case of "Waving a red flag at the bull"?

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  12. Re:They'll lose eventually. by rakkasan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I see a future where computer skill and military experience merge to form - corporate mercenaries. A quick, forced entry, a small shaped charge and thier servers are toast. In and out in 10 minutes before the local authorities can react. Cash into the swiss account. ok.. too much Shadowrun as a teenager, but hey it could happen.

    --
    The problem is choice..
  13. Sweden is far ahead of the rest of the world. by babbling · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm an Australian who has just returned to Australia from a 1.5-month long trip to Sweden. Sweden is doing so many things right and it's really unfortunate that Australia isn't a bit more like Sweden.

    First of all, there's not nearly as much crime in Sweden as there is in Australia. The Swedish government takes proper care of their people, so no one feels a need to commit crime. There's no homeless people sleeping in parks at night. People are much, much friendlier.

    They also don't have any terrorist panic. There's no "terrorism alert levels", and there isn't much security. There's not even nearly as many police around as there is in Australia. The Swedes haven't made enemies for themselves by invading other countries, so they don't need to be afraid of any terrorists attacking them. The Swedes are more "free" than Americans are, which proves that terrorists don't hate America because they "hate freedom", as George Bush wants everyone to think. They attack America because America attacked them and is occupying their countries.

    Sweden will probably also now lead the way in having free culture. They will soon show that money can be made even from creating free culture. Hopefully the rest of the world will follow their lead. Unfortunately, the rest of the world seems to be going crazy.

    I just hope everyone who reads this post can imagine what life would be like to live in a country where you don't need to be afraid of terrorism or crime, a country where almost all of the population gets a good education, and all this despite alcohol (and probably other drugs) being more easily accessible in this country. Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that such a country can't exist, but it's important that everyone knows it does, for that is how other countries can follow the Swedes' lead in being a more peaceful, calmer, and better educated population.

    1. Re:Sweden is far ahead of the rest of the world. by wootest · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As a swede, it's a strange feeling reading these kinds of comments.

      To say that I voraciously live through the Internet would be wrong, but I do practically live in some sort of pseudo-american culture when I'm spending any amount of time online. Swedish, real life friends, sure, they're there too, but my AIM buddy list (the one I use to keep in touch with online friends) is longer by far than the MSN Messenger list (swedish friends).

      Every day I read on Slashdot and on other sites about how freedoms are in the process of being taken away. Mostly, the problems are international or apply globally in some ways, but a surprisingly big chunk is US domestic. I'm really quite surprised you haven't risen up, shook your heads and beaten the crap out of your established political system yet - as an outsider, it seems like the "American" thing to do, if I'm to believe various over-patriotic messages relayed to me over the years.

      What I think is happening is this: the US is more and more about its government. Two major political parties and a winner-takes-all system in general does that. The "American" thing has evolved towards supporting the government, instead of the government supporting the people. And any government today - especially Republican, *it seems* - "are not above a little bribery and corruption in the same way that the sea is not above the clouds" (thanks, Douglas Adams). What you have is the government, who is either to be awed or to be ignored, played around by the corporations while your civil rights go straight down the can and anyone who opposes is a communist^Wterrorist. (McCarthy would have been proud, from all I hear.)

      I'm not saying my analysis is right. I'm currently not 'rooting' for one of the major american parties, though I am certainly rooting against the current administration. I'm just saying that it's odd that Sweden's the one following the 'socialism' ideology branch, while it's the american citizens who have to take in in the hiney from their government.

      And for what it's worth, Sweden is far from perfect. But there's no doubt in my mind that it's the american citizen that's worse off of the two.

    2. Re:Sweden is far ahead of the rest of the world. by liangzai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Dude, you seriously need to WAKE UP!

      There are PLENTY of homeless people in Sweden, but they sleep where you can't see them, because if they sleep in the park there might be some teenagers having some fun burning them to death (yeah, there is no police protecting anyone in Sweden).

      Crime in Sweden is notorious and ever on the rise. The police is mostly concerned about filming prostitutes having sex (so that they can convict the buyer) or dismantling illegal gambling from public squares. 80% of all crimes are never solved. This all goes in hand with the increase of poor people in the so called welfare state, making people desperate. Not a day goes by without a security transport loaded with money being robbed. Petty crime is of course notorious; buy a bike and see for yourself.

      The "terrorist panic" is alive and well in Sweden, although we are not at risk. This is manifested in a whole slew of new laws effectively abolishing personal integrity, allowing the police to bug and surveill each and everyone for virtually no reason; this includes news paper agencies. Yes, you heard me right: the media can be bugged by Swedish police. And all this is motivated by the fucking "terrorist threat", that has only served as an excuse to finally install a fucking camera everywhere. I must congratulate Osama to the convincing victory.

      Sweden in my mind, and I am a Swede, is a totalitarian cradle-to-grave one-party state with no future.

    3. Re:Sweden is far ahead of the rest of the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Funny, I don't remember the US invading any countries before the September 11th attacks.

      From the top of my head: Nicaragua, Liberia, Kuwait, Angola, Haiti, Grenada, Vietnam, Japan, Texas.

      And US have financed a lot of "terrorism" in other countries. They seem to have a particulary dislike to democratic movements and governments. Dictators are, perhaps, easier to do buisness with.

      There are also other countries that don't invade other countries that are under constant threat by terrorist attacks. (Israel, Philippines, Pakistan, India, Greece, just to name a few.)

      Israel? Not invading other countries territory. You must be kidding.

  14. Re:Not illegal by spyrochaete · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Thats sophistry. Without that information it would not be possible for people to steal the content. The information is made available in that form for the express purpose and with the express intent of facilitating theft.

    That's the law. In the eyes of Swedish law, TPB is not facilitating theft, they are a library of text files. TPB has mentioned that as soon as storing text files becomes illegal they will provide hyperlinks to the text files. And when hyperlinks become illegal they will provide hyperlinks to the hyperlinks. They are committed to bogging down copyright more than providing a specific service to the people.

    I, for one, am glad to see the beaurocracy of law choke on its own bulk. Despite what some mega corporations are whining for these days, many countries allow their citizens to share culture openly. To share and to be shared with, not to give or take and remove from the source.

    Technology is granting great freedoms to the populace, and some countries feel the public needn't put a nickel in the jar every time they whistle a tune.

  15. Re:Not illegal by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They aren't hosting any of the content. Only text files (as explained on their web page).

    Thats sophistry. Without that information it would not be possible for people to steal the content.

    What makes you say that? More difficult, sure. Impossible? Don't think so. Its a bit of text, and it can move at supersonic speeds in several directions and forms at once. A real bitch to pin down, Pirate Bay or no.

    The information is made available in that form for the express purpose and with the express intent of facilitating theft.

    Well, see, that's a tricky thing. The problem with that line of thinking is again a practical one, it is very hard to hang a crime on a person who is simply indicating an easy crime opportunity. If I point out to someone in the library that the photocopier on the right is malfunctioning and does not require money to operate, am I committing a crime? So of course you are right when you say the idea is to let people download movies and software, but the facilitating of that is not a crime in and of itself.

    Seems like you were not here for the Napster affair then. During the Napster affair there was no shortage of people flaming about how the service was obviously 100% legal. After the company folded it turned out that they had never received even an internal opinion to the effect that the service was legal.

    Sure, that was a new ruling basically. And the original poster did say "until that changes in Sweden"; you always have the possibility of the winds of law shifting on you, no matter what the case.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  16. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by Bazzalisk · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Mine is pretty subjective all told.

    Money is nothing more than units of exchange issued and maintained by the government of the state in which you reside. For historical reasons it has generaly been made clear that granting people a certain share of these units in recompense for their work is a good way of ensuring that society continues functioning - that's your pay.

    Similarly it has also become clear that the "obvious" way of doing this - which would be to have everybody work for an organ of the government and be payed a reasonable amount by them doesn't work much of the time (although as a research student it's notable that this is how I get paid - so it can work under certain circumstances). The alternative which seams to work is to have quasi-independent organs called "bussinesses" which overpay their workers, and then have government organs remove the excess (that's your taxes).

    So your pay and taxes are realy just an organisational thing - no one is "taking things away from you" they just give you too much and then take it back.

    --
    James P. Barrett
  17. Actually, "Stores that are easy to steal from" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It is more like, "Here is a list of music stores that are easy to steal music from."

  18. Bittorrent improvement to help defense cases? by MadCow42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Bittorrent trackers don't host any data, just links - so they could theoretically be ok under Sweedish Law. However, hosting Bittorrent data isn't so innocent, and easy to track if you get the locations from the tracker.

    However - what if you "improved" the bit-torrent protocol so that when a file is split up and distributed amongst hosts, that some of the files are NOT part of the original data. When recombining the pieces, they're discarded. If encrypted, you couldn't tell which were real, and which were not... making it difficult to prove that someone was hosting copyrighted data. It's sort of like a firing squad - one rifle is loaded with a blank so you don't know if you're the one that killed they guy or not.

    Just a thought (un-informed, but inspired. :)

    MadCow.

    --
    I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
  19. The Pirate Bay is identical in nature to Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's important to realize that The Pirate Bay does not host any infringing content on its servers.

    The Pirate Bay is identical in nature to Google:

    Both sites allow users to enter searches from a web page, and both return a list of links to (sometimes infringing) content.

    If The Pirate Bay can be shut down, then Google can be shut down.

    1. Re:The Pirate Bay is identical in nature to Google by Telvin_3d · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The difference? Google can afford a more lawyers than could fit into the court room. The Pirate Bay is using a law STUDENT as its legal council. This is why even if TPB goes down, Google never will.

  20. Re:We demand.. by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...you may not read, copy, distribute, or use this information.
    [Emphasis Mine]

    Uh-oh, now you're going to jail. And me to, I guess. Oh well.

    In an interesting twist of English interpretation, couldn't it be said that acknowledging and abiding by the sentence in whole or in part would be a violation of the 'or use' statement, thus nullifying the whole thing?
    --
    Unpleasantries.
  21. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by manthrax3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How can you have freedom of religion if you don't have enough money to donate to your church?

    How can you have freedom of press if you can't buy printing presses, web servers, etc.

    Freedom doesn't exist without personal property. If the government owns everything, you can only operate inside its sandbox, which is a pretty infantile version of freedom.

  22. Slashdotting retail establishments by quokkapox · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I've always wanted to try this, to get together a flash mob or even just a few people, and go in to a large franchise grocery store (SFW, Giant, Walmart, whatever).

    If you have enough people, this type of DOS attack could be devastating. Everybody goes around picking out non-perishable items in large quantities and putting them into their carts. Go for the cat food cans (50 varieties!), the spice aisle, maybe the Jello aisle, and top off your cart with a few large 50-lb bags of kitty litter or something. At a predetermined time, everybody drives their loaded carts up to the front, parks them randomly in the way, and exits the store. It takes them forever to put everything back correctly. And if your group has a message, the management gets it because you can leave flyers everywhere on the shelves or at the bottom of the carts. Fun fun fun.

    --
    it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
  23. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by dada21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why should wealth be inheritable any more than any other form of power? Unearned wealth from inheritance should be taxed heavily.

    Great question -- the reason is that this gives opportunity to the poor as well as the rich. I have MANY experiences with ultra rich familes and ultra poor families. The rich families often find themselves bankrupt in 3 generations because they just pass on money without teaching responsibility. The poor families who pass on responsibility and some money to their kids often see their kids succeeding because they learned how to work, save and invest in themselves. I believe the cliche is "Blue Collar to Blue Collar in 3 generations" but I could be wrong.

    I can buy cheap things and not go into debt or expensive things and go into debt, whether I'm buying from my neighbor or from a guy on the other side of the planet. I don't understand your point here.

    By having positive trade balances and not owing anyone anything, you give your own societal group the benefit of maximizing their own skills. When a society can buy something cheaper from another society (as long as its not debt bought), the first society can focus on new skills where they are most productive. In a society of 5 people, it is very hard for everyone to find wealth. But once that society of 5 people mixes with 10000 societies of 5 people, everyone can maximize their wealth by opening up their market to new places to sell to and new places to buy from.

  24. For what I hope is the last time by rsilvergun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1. China and the USSR were not Communist nations. They were facist dictatorships that borrowed communist rhetoric to justify the horrible things they did.

    2. Globalism breaks Capitalism. Adam Smith envisioned a world where capitalists would act responsible because they lived right next to the squalor they create. Capitilism was layed out in an era before global transportation and telecommunications, not to mention before modern militaries eclipsed what a civilian militia could stand up aganst and modern propaganda/populace management techniques existed. These things combined mean a modern capitalist can live detached from the hellhole he creates, pit labor in one country aganst another to lower everyone's standard of living, and use the military and gov't propaganda engines to put down any serious challenge to his power.

    3. The US became the most powerful country because we're on a continent with two really weak countries at either end. We have no serious rivals, and could prosper as such. While the rest of the world was reeling from WWII, we just kept on growing. It has nothing to do with Capitalism and everything to do with Geography and dumb luck.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  25. Re:How to be popular by arose · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The site is engaged in theft, they are not performing the theft themselves
    Funny, that's what people say when they blow up civilians for what their goverments do...
    --
    Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  26. More cash to TPB by foolip · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A few days a go a swedish reality series (on public service TV) called "toppkandidaterna" (top candidates) with young people with political ideas competed was finished. The winner was a leftist guy who will give 50000 SEK (US$6270) of the cash prize (250000 SEK in total, the rest will go elsewhere) to the pirate bay. The money is to be used for new hardware (the site has been running a bit slow lately and the search function has frequently been unavailable). That's public service money well spent!

  27. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by aeoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It'd be nice if you at least understood and acknowledged the parent's conscious choice to be less rich in order to be more wealthy.

    As it is, I don't think you understand wealth and you don't appreciate the choice that parent post speaks of. See, you measure everything in money, and that's not the right way to measure true wealth.

    Point by point, 1 is money, 2 is money (unless you mean wisdom passing on to descendants, which I really doubt, having read quite a few of your posts), 3 money again.

    I see wealth as having a happy life -- the kind of life where the person feels at ease and social relations are free from strain. When people focus on making money, they make all other goals half-assed. Or spoken in different words, a person who performs some art, such as healing (like a surgeon), constructions, etc., when doing so for money, is bringing ulterior motive into their art/craft, thus invariable and necessarily degrading it. And this is what we see happening all around! Look how crappy the fruits and vegetables are in your supermarket. Shit, you may not even have seen a good looking tomato in your entire life, if you grew up in USA. What they sell in supermarkets across America is CRAP. Why? Because it's efficient -- the fruits are not tasty enough for worms, they don't rot, they last long. The main priority is quantity and lastingness. That's what happens when you do it for money. If you did it in any other way, then you'd make less money. So we have tomatoes that taste like leather, green bananas, mushy and blackened potatoes and so on. Some things you can't even buy, because they're not profitable (but damn, they are tasty). I once had to fight with the store ordering guy to get him to order some beets for the store. His argument, "No one buys beets, so we don't carry it." So what if the majority of culture is happy with just fucken' ramen? And that's likely to happen because they sell crap vegetables. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: you sell crap produce and drive people to rely more on canned goods and cereal (5 dollars for a box of air) and pasta, etc... People buy fewer vegetables, so you have to carry a less diverse stock and less more expensive cereal. Profit. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

    This is not what I'd call wealth. Lots of money flows thru a supermarket store. But everything on its shelves is CRAP and every fuckin supermarket employee I've seen has been a very SICK and unhappy person. Why is that? Because the store treats them like crap. That's why. But they don't have to be treated like that. They could be paid more (and yes, I know... I KNOW the store will make less money if they pay their clerks more, or GOD FORBID, give them part ownership of the store, so they feel responsible for what they do and they feel part of the success of their own work). The result: very very strained human relations. The result of strained relations is segregations of society into layers. The result of layering of society is formations of elites at the top and gangs who have nothing to lose and nothing to live for at the bottom.

    Greed and the focus on money as exclusive measure of wealth turns everything into crap. You end up with booming economy, with lots of dollars, but all the people are pissed off, the government is bloated (YES, because, for corps to keep pumping more and more money out of public, they need to get government on board, and this is just a natural extention of doing it for money and seeing money as wealth), and all the products are of bare-minimum quality that the market will bear, and there is no point in excellence if a mediocre thing will sell too.

    dada, it is people like YOU who bloat our government. You just don't see how it happens. It's a guy like you who ends up, in luckier circumstances with owning a corporation. And it's a guy like you that at the end of the day goes to the government and asks for laws that protect and ensure your business. You only talk trash when you're a small fry, but once you get more

  28. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Why should the government be involved with deciding what I do with my property

    Once you're dead, it's not your property anymore.

    be it my body, my house, or my wallet?

    Your relationship with your body is much more intimate than "property".

    Your house is your property only because of a government deed; those funny green pieces of paper in your wallet are government creations too.

    Capitalism requires all sorts to the government involvement; contrary to the concept of "liberatrian capitalism", capitalism is not a ground state that occurs in the absence of state action. That's why anarchy is a form of socialism.

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  29. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by EatHam · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are several key arguments for an estate tax. * Continued concentrate of power in the elite. In any democracy, wealth can be translated into political power. Well, then you're fixing the wrong problem aren't you? * Limit Innovation. A society full of undeserving rich kids travelling around collecting art work for their private collections does not induce innovation. First off, it would induce innovation in the field of art that appeals to undeserving rich kids. Second, I think you are greatly overestimating the number of undeserving rich kids that would result from the permanent abolition of the estate tax. * Govt research and investments Good. Surprisingly very wealthy people such as Bill Gates Sr. and Warren Buffett support the death tax. Surprisingly, middle class people such as EatHam could give a fuck what Bill Gates and Warren Buffet support in the way of taxation. Middle class people such as EatHam also realize that the problem isn't the tax rate, the problem is with the method of collection. If people paid their tax bill in full and didn't evade, we would still have a surplus. Don't blame Bush for that, blame your criminal tax evading neighbors.

  30. A bit off, but still on by Brothernone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I cannot explain how much much i dislike and hate the content comming out currently. Movies, Mucis, TV, Blah blah blah. It's all crap. I don't spend my money on the latest boy band or some teen whore. I don't spend my money watching crap movies that get fluff reviews just so the reviewers can keep thier job. I spend my money procurring acess to the interent. I spend my money on imported CD's because PEOPLE, not instruments and soundboards, make music. Today's america is full of one problem: Too much. There is simply too much to do, too many bills to pay, too many debts to correct, too many cars in the traffic jam, too many people in your department. People are so sidetracked with their wordly shit that they spend their hard earned money on crap that makes them feel better for 20 minutes. That being said, i'm all for piracy. Not only do i support TFSM (The flying spaggehti monser) i'm all for mass digital content delivery. Since studios and content makers feel it is their right to demand my money for crap i don't even want, I go out of my way to avoid paying for the content I do want. Movies, TV Shows, it's all about what the CONSUMER wants, not what they think we want. Instead of handling this technology like mature people, they have chosen to sit on their Copy Rights like the fat kid hoarding his cake. Instead of being smart and offering their own way of digital converstion and distrobution, they choose to stick to old methods that are simply obsolete in today's world. TPB is not just a piracy site, it's a community. Real people have real opinions and are making it known in real ways. They are executing their powers under their laws, and I think it's fantastic.

    --
    He whom you called four-eyes yesterday, you call Sir tomorrow.
  31. Re:Too limited - that's the problem by Crizp · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I work for a Swedish software development company, and we have no issues with PirateBay and similar sites. Our software is used basically by three categories of people - academic researchers, students and industry. Only the latter can afford it anyway and they generally don't get their stuff from warez sites. The other two, especially students can't afford it anyway, so there is no loss of profit if they use 'illegal' copies of our software. On the contrary, they get to know our product so when they start working there's a good chance that they'll buy software they are used to working with.

    If that's your company's official opinion, and not only yours, congratulations! It's the first time I've heard of a company holding this view. Most people are law-abiding - when they can afford it.

    Most people I know that run businesses use warezed copies of new versions of $favourite_software, and buy it if they feel the need to use it instead of their current (bought) version. While trying the warezed copy, they also make sure no commercial works are created with it - it's purely "in-house" testing.

    Granted, many softwares have a two-week "pre-activation" test period after you bought it (like WinXP), but try and get your money back if you decide you don't want it. It's meant to be a grace period for phone/fax registrations, not evaluation. And no true eval copies exist.

  32. a voice from behind the iron curtain (Moscow, ru) by vleo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have spent 13 years of my life in the US and moved back to Moscow, Russia recently. The reason was that from day one in the US I felt like I'm "back in the USSR" in some strange way - capitalizm, sure, but also lack of freedom,and there was much more freedom in Russia in 1992, and it is still lots left, although the constant anti-freedom pressure from the West and US on these topics is felt:
    a) copyright (although, my economical and political beliefs are Linux/GNU/FSF, and repressive law against Windows lusers benefits me economically). And prohibiting hollywood movies and music would only benefit (any) country.
    b) war on (some) drugs - overall policy that results in black market prices grouth for said products, with strong govt. corruption and consumption grow, accoppanied by constant media hypocrasy.
    c) human rights erosion under the pretext of "war on terror" - like x-raying my boots and stealing my nail-clippers at the airports, phone and internet surveillance. Although - right now in Moscow you can buy 1) anonymous GSM phone card 2) anonymous internet access card 3) anonumous electronic cash cards 4) cannabis seeds selling and buying is legal
    d) prostitution - at least it's still not a criminal offense in Russia, for private, individual relation between two (or more :-) conscenting adults. There are so many reasons why people might want to have sex, I don't see why govt. should be involved at all. And the girls are very good IMHO. Just look up on the Web.
    e) erosion of state/church separation - but at least in Russian schools children are not forced to pledge submission to Govt. and GOD on a daily basis
    f) untill now complete databases for all private information from phone numbers, to passport, drivers license, property, taxes paid were available for no more then $30 complete set. Unfortunately lately FSB(KGB) got upset that such complete information discosure was available to anybody, not just them. But, Westen position on this is such - give that wealth of information only to Govt. agencies. Whereas, if there is no choice, better everybody has it, rather then only Govt.

    Speaking of "Pirate Bay" - well, firstly, I prefer eMule. Secondly, I never bother to download movies since on every metro station there are kiosks that sell DVDs with up to 8-6 latest Holywood shit movies on a two sided disk (russian creativity! :) for $3 each. And most latest software for evil OS (MS-Windows).

    p.s. my wife delivers a baby in 10 days and althouth I can't say it was not without a hassle to get all paperwork and state medical insurance papers - it's free. We probably feel obligated to tip doctor with $200-$300 for delivery, but that's our choice and in case we were broke it would still be the same hospital and doctor. And Govt. gives a $250 bonus for a newborn baby. Of course it costs a hell more to rise a child, but :-)

    Now, I do hate socializm :-) "Those that trade freedom for some security end up with neither"

    --
    Vassili Leonov ...it is the actions that affect us, not the motive...RMS
  33. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Right, it's my family's property.

    No, it's no one's property after you die. It becomes your family's property only through government action.

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  34. Re:socialist-democratic not communist by dada21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can date numerous good looking women, take them out...etc. You just can't do that with 'wealth that is not money'.

    This is completely untrue. I'm an average/below-average looking short guy who has always dated very attractive women, including some models. The one I chose for the rest of my life is hot AND intelligent. I never once offered that I had money, and I rarely even paid for their share of the dates. Of course I've been writing about how to date amazing women for 10 years (and now I offer the advice freely).

    Also, you don't need to be rich to travel -- I've been traveling internationally on a regular basis for almost 17 years and I earn 40-60% less than the average slashdot IT reader here. You don't need to be rich for a nice home, or to eat well. I firmly believe a single guy can do VERY well on $20,000 a year in 2006.

    Today, it is money. Just a fact of nature, and I don't know anyone that doesn't like getting laid by a great looking lady. It sure makes me happy.

    This is wrong, completely wrong. Money can be a very big attraction for any gal initially, but the money wears off if the guy isn't able to offer the woman what she really wants -- mystery, intrigue and the chase. This continues through marriage and retirement, women want to chase. If you're rich and you have an attractive girl on your arm for your money, the marriage won't last -- look at Donald Trump for proof there. Yet I believe that a fat, bald and poor geek can still land an amazing girl -- attractive, smart, even one that earns much more than him. All they need to do is ignore what they thought the rules were and start acting like a real man.