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New Jet Engine Tested

SpaceAdmiral writes "A revolutionary new jet engine has recently been tested in Australia. It is hoped that the engine, designed by UK defense firm QinetiQ and capable of Mach 7.6, will pave the way for ultra fast, intercontinental air travel. Scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) engines have no moving parts and take all of the oxygen they need (to burn hydrogen fuel) from the air, allowing for larger loads than rockets which must carry oxygen for fuel."

19 of 258 comments (clear)

  1. Queensland Univ is running the HyShot program by xmas2003 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here's the main page about the University of Queensland (Australia) Centre for Hypersonics program that is running this program. The BBC article mentioned is pulled from their press release.

    First application for Mach 7+ won't be passenger travel, but military (if not already used) where it will not only be fast, but louder than heck - after all Jet Noise is the Sound of Freedom! ;-)

    --
    Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
  2. 6 seconds 'till impact by cabinetsoft · · Score: 5, Funny
    The scientists had just six seconds to monitor its performance before the £1m engine crashed into the ground.
    'nuff said... just like my GF driving my car...
    1. Re:6 seconds 'till impact by Pento · · Score: 5, Funny
      'nuff said... just like my GF driving my car...
      That's what happens when you put a Real Doll behind the wheel.
  3. not new. by Kr3m3Puff · · Score: 4, Informative

    Scramjet's are a revolutionary "new" type of engine, they have just been difficult to get from the concept to pratical stage.

    The biggest problem is a way to compress enough oxygen at top speeds to feed the fuel reaction without needing to carry oxygen on board (which would be a rocket).

    --
    D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
    1. Re:not new. by IvyKing · · Score: 3, Informative
      Really? I remember scramjets being discussed in the 1960's

      I've got an encyclopedia set titled "Above and Beyond" published in the late 60's showing the difference between a ramjet and scramjet. Work was being done by the Marquardt corp. The Nation Aerospace Plane (NASP, ca 1990) was supposed to be using an external scramjet.

  4. Patent infringement! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    " Scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) engines have no moving parts and take all of the oxygen they need (to burn hydrogen fuel) from the air, allowing for larger loads than rockets which must carry oxygen for fuel."

    What??? I'll sue right now. This infringes on the name for my patented propulsion "Spamjet" (tm) system.... a revolutionary aerospace technology by which vehicles set up Hotmail accounts, and then propel themselves across the world by converting the lengthening promises of penis spams into actual thrust.

  5. ALL of the oxygen? by thirdrock · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) engines have no moving parts and take all of the oxygen they need (to burn hydrogen fuel) from the air, allowing for larger loads than rockets which must carry oxygen for fuel.

    All jet engines take the oxygen they need from the air. Only rocket engines leaving the atmosphere require an onboard source of oxygen. Even the U2, which flew at > 40,000ft got it's oxygen from the surrounding air.

    And the Scramjet is a jet engine, not a rocket engine. The difference you were looking for is that scramjet engines do not require a turbine to compress the surrounding air. This allows the engine to move at a much faster speed because turbine engines have an upper speed limit before the stresses pull them apart.

    Also, theoretically if the compression was high enough the scramjet could burn jet fuel (kerosene) but there is probably technical difficulties with injection (ie. avoiding hot spots and detonation).

    --
    >>
    I am the director, and this is my movie ...
    1. Re:ALL of the oxygen? by Napoleon+The+Pig · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm not even sure where to start with this one...

      1. Turbines in a jet engine are located after compression and combustion occur. Compression is due to compressors located after the inlet of the engine and before the combustion chamber where fuel is introduced and ignited. From the combustion chamber the high pressure, high temperature exhaust is then fed through the turbines which then generate power for quite a few different things including running the compressors.

      Engine Theroy: Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow.

      2. Jet engines do not work at very high speed not because of stresses in the compressors/turbines but rather because of the problems with supersonic flow. For supersonic aircraft the airflow into the engine is slowed to subsonic speeds using inlet geometry to control the oblique and normal shocks in the flow. Yes, theoretically you could spin the compressor faster than it's mechanical stress limits but that would occur a lot longer after the engine stopped working due to the flow.

      3. The reason hydrogen is used as fuel for the scramjet is because the pressure tolerances for the engine are extremely small. The compressed flow must maintain supersonic speed, contain enough heat to ignite the fuel, and have enough time to have initiation and reaction occur inside the combustion chamber before it's ejected out the exhaust nozzle.

      The reason they're comparing a Scramjet to a rocket engine is because having a Scramjet would dramatically reduce the weight of orbital flight by not having to carry its own oxidizer. For example: 75% of the weight of the Space Shuttle during launch is stored in LOX used as fuel.

      However the feasibility of using a Scramjet engine for a single stage to orbit vehicle poses problems of its own. Way too many to list here. But solutions might be found to these problems as technology increases.

    2. Re:ALL of the oxygen? by agingell · · Score: 4, Informative

      FYI The record for air breathing aircraft (not rocket) is 85,068 feet, set in 1976 by a Lockheed SR-71 jet-powered aircraft. This was broken by the NASA helios solar powered (not air breathing) flying wing 96,500 feet in 2001
      Concorde was the highest flying commercial airliner with an operational ceiling of 60,000 feet.

      The SR-71(AKA blackbird had very specialised jet-engines which operated in a semi ramjet mode.

      The biggest problems with a scram-jet is trying to make it a scram-jet, i.e. the airflow through the engine has to remain supersonic. The shock wave angle decreases with mach speed, at low mach numbers it is too wide. This means that you have to have an impossibly large diameter and short engine to maintain supersonic flow. When you get hypersonic (above mach 5) the shock waves get much closer to parallel to the direction of motion, hence you can have a reasonable length and diameter on your engine. The length is the critical problem, as it is necessary to combust fuel and expand the working mass (air) within the engine in order that it can do any useful work. This is very difficult as mach 5 is 1701.45 m/s so if you have a 2m engine tube you have roughly 1.2 milliseconds in which to compress, burn and expand your fuel! The rate of flame propagation in kerosene is just not high enough to get even close at this kind of scale therefore hydrogen is realistically the only fuel which will work as it has the highest flame propagation rate, even hydrogen is difficult.

      Scram-jets are a very interesting technology, but there are others like air breathing rocket motors which use the liquid hydrogen to cool the intake air so that it can be compressed sufficiently to be fed into the rocket combustion chamber. This is a pretty good technique although the heat exchangers are pretty difficult to build. The have the advantage that you just bleed in more and more O2 as you leave the atmosphere until they are running in pure rocket mode.
      They do have the disadvantage that they can realistically only operate with a max velocity of about mach 5.5 when air-breathing as above that you get 0 net thrust and they are fairly complex. Air breathing rockets make single stage to orbit possible without ridiculous fuel to weight ratios.

  6. Why is it Revolutionary? by Silvers · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can anyone tell me why this engine is revolutionary? NASA has been testing these types of engine for some time.

    For example, the X-43 which hit mach 9.6.

    [url]http://www.nasa.gov/missions/research/x43-mai n.html%5B/url%5D

  7. Results: by OO7david · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'll bet it was a smashing success

  8. Might as well go out with a bang ... or a hole. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you're going to be hitting the ground at any speed greater than a few feet per second, you might as well make it Mach 7. Not like it's going to make a whole hell of a lot of difference anyway, and the crater will be a lot more impressive.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  9. Mach 7? by Z1NG · · Score: 5, Funny

    Five blades is plenty for me. I want to keep my skin atleast.

  10. Flight Data: San Francisco to London by reporter · · Score: 3, Funny
    The circumference of the earth at its equator is about 25000 miles. A passenger jet traveling at mach 7 (about 5000 miles per hour) can circle the globe in about 5 hours.

    More to the point, the distance between San Francisco (in California, USA) and London (in England) is about 5000 miles. That same passenger jet at mach 7 can bring its passengers from London to San Francisco in about 1 hour. The trip would be much cheaper than that offered by a subsonic plane because 1 hour is only enough time for cheap snacks like airline peanuts and Coca-Cola whereas a 14-hour flight would mean an expensive (but low-quality) dinner tray.

    On the other hand, a 1-hour flight would facilitate global infidelity. An errant British businessman could fly to San Francisco, have dinner and sex with his squeeze, and then return to London within 4 hours.

  11. Re:Australia's known for their flight record by dbIII · · Score: 3, Informative
    IIRC, Australia's Qantas Airways was until very recently the only major airline without a crash
    They've had crashes, but they haven't as yet lost a passenger. Two aircrew died in a crash of a non-passenger flight in the 1920's. KLM is the only functioning airline that is older than Qantas.
  12. Re:Mach 7 is easy downhill by SeeMyNuts! · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Can you find a 400 mile high hill, somewhere where there's no air resistance?"

    In fact, when I was a young'n, the school was on top of that hill! We had to walk out of the atmosphere in freeze-drying temperatures every day! Kids, these days, get heated pressurized busses! They're spoiled, I say! There's nothing like a walk through the stratosphere to put the world in perspective!

  13. pointlless travel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Instead of getting people to consume more (faster) travel and burning up the ever decreasing oxygene of the atmosphere in the process, maybe the emphasis should be directed more on things like *reducing* the need for air travel? Just like instead of encouraging road travel, the opposite should be happening. Global warming, remember? Overly dependence on foreign oil etc?

    Besides, when there were problems with making the Concorde profitable that flew at a mere mach 2, how in the hell is it going to be possible to create an aircraft that would be stable enough on ground level to take off and land, and still be profitable? The quantum leaps the material science has to make to meet such needs are huge.

  14. Re:A solution in search of a problem. by asuffield · · Score: 4, Informative

    Furthermore - a scramjet is nearly useless as the first stage of an orbital launcher, because it wants to cruise at a steady speed. An orbital launcher wants to be steadily accelerating.

    That's not really true - or at least, it's highly confusing. All jet engines are accelerating whenever they are not idling: they exert a force on the craft causing it to accelerate at a rate of the force exerted divided by the mass of the craft. The apparent acceleration of the craft is reduced by drag and gravity. An orbital launcher has two requirements: that it gain sufficient height to reduce drag to near-zero, and sufficient velocity to actually be in orbit. There's numerous paths that will get you there and few of them involve 'steady acceleration' - a conventional 'great big rocket' launcher has steady thrust, but apparent acceleration to a ground observer is constantly changing with height, since the effects of drag reduce at higher altitudes.

    A scramjet does not cruise at a steady speed. It runs at a fixed level of incoming air pressure. It has to run at that level because a scramjet does not contain moving parts to control the air flow. That means, as the surrounding air pressure decreases, the scramjet goes faster. It effectively operates at a fixed speed for a given altitude, and goes faster as you get higher. This is ideal for an orbital launcher.

    However: the first stage of an orbital launcher is the one that gets it off the ground. A scramjet is completely useless as the first stage because it doesn't do anything when you aren't moving.

    A scramjet path to orbit looks rather different to the old 'big rocket' system. You start with a conventional turbojet aircraft, which takes off and lands normally, using a horizontal path and wings. That's the first stage. You use it to climb to turbojet cruising altitude, and maybe accelerate to your maximum operating velocity (about mach 2 to mach 3). Then you fire a ramjet engine (or small rocket booster - this can be a solid rocket) to get you up to mach 5, which is the breakeven point for a scramjet. Then you fire the scramjet as the third stage, which carries you from mach 5 up to about mach 10 or 12, and most importantly, to near-orbital altitude.

    At this point, the orbital craft that was piggybacking you breaks away, and boosts to orbit on one of the conventional late-stage rocket engines, like those used by the shuttle once it has discarded all its booster engines and is in the final orbiter configuration. It's already nearly there, so it doesn't need much fuel. The conventional aircraft that got it up here descends again and lands under turbojets, just like every other jet craft; the orbital craft has its own crew and operates independently.

    The two advantages of this design are that it should be largely reusable (because you haven't discarded half the craft on the way up), and it requires significantly less total thrust to get up there. A 'big rocket' craft has to fight the force of gravity all the way up; an aircraft with wings is supported by aerodynamic lift, and merely has to accelerate. The disadvantages are that jet aircraft have more drag than rockets (but aircraft fly all the time; this isn't a fatal problem, it just reduces the advantage), and nobody knows how to build a useful scramjet aircraft yet (the X-43 testing craft just prove the scramjet concept, they aren't useful in their own right). Whether or not anybody can build such a craft that can lift a useful payload weight to orbit is unknown, but the theory says it should be possible.

  15. Re:Flight Data: San Francisco to London by Plunky · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If I want to visit Australia, and I have two weeks' vacation, I'd like to get there in a reasonably short amount of time. Two weeks on the open ocean doesn't sound like a heck of a lot of fun.

    Well if you were trying to get to Australia then it might be frustrating, but in fact two weeks on the open ocean is mighty fine. I did four weeks once and regard it as one of the best times of my entire life.