The New Force at Lucasfilm

conq writes "BusinessWeek has an interview with the heads of George Lucas' gaming and movie divisions, and discusses with them how they are getting closer and closer to integration. From the article: 'Pre-visualization, which is a big thing that George has been pushing lately. It's a tool that directors would use to quickly mock up the ideas of a story and see what's going to work. It's really like building up a preview of a movie in a video game world. Instead of using static story boards, you can really just get in and create 3D content and camera moves directly. It's the best example of the kind of collaboration we've got going on.'"

Comments

Hmm...

[Propagandhi]

Definitely seems useful for making movies, but I don't see how George Lucas could use this. Isn't he in the business of shattering childhood memories??

Re:Hmm...

[TheSystemHasFailed]

Only if he can make a buck at it. Otherwise he's into marketing dolls..er.. action figures.. yea that's it.

Re:Hmm...

[gijoel]

Isn't he in the business of shattering childhood memories??

Yeah, but now he can capture that moment when we're about to burst into tears in the privacy of his own home.

Re:Hmm...

[Gleng]

Lucas is like that kid you knew at college, who had all the best guitars, amps, effects pedals, and recording and mixing equipment, but was still having trouble stringing three chords together.

Still, he's earning more in a second than I do in a month, so he must be doing something right.

Re:Hmm...

[kniLnamiJ-neB]

I'd mark that Insightful if I had mod points... good analogy!

Yep...

[Anonymous Coward]

It helps tremendously. Just look at how Episode I, II and III turned out.

Re:Yep...

[KinkyClown]

Yeah that where great scetches!

I could never work at Lucasfilm

[Anonymous Coward]

Everytime they asked me to do something I didn't want to, I'd be unable to resist saying "But I wanted to go to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters."

Re:I could never work at Lucasfilm

[sedmonds]

But you could shoot George, as long as it was filmed, and on the dvd version he'd shoot first and you'd be freed!

Re:I could never work at Lucasfilm

[Gleng]

You can waste time with your friends when your chores are done. Now come on, get to it.

Full Throttle

[CRCulver]

I have fond memories of the LucasArt game Full Throttle , which has one badass protagonist, some hilarious music, and a couple of amusing references to that film franchise Lucas is known for. Anyone know if a sequel is in the works?

Re:Full Throttle

[Squigley]

There was a sequel in the works, "Hell on Wheels", but because it didn't have enough Star Wars content, it got axed, nearly 3 years ago.

There was a press release about it getting axed, but that most not have had enough Star Wars content either, and it's been deleted, and you get redirected to the home page.

There's a brief article here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/fullthrottle2 /news_6073105.html

And a bit more here: http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,183

God I wish Lucas would get over the whole Star Wars thing already.

Re:Full Throttle

[Nasarius]

Same thing happened to the Sam & Max sequel. The original was a real classic, on the same level as Monkey Island. The idea that the adventure genre has magically become obsolete is such crap.

Re:Full Throttle

[Firehed]

The whole "talkie" line of LucasArts games was sweet. Who can't love something as utterly rediculous as DOTT, or indeed Sam & Max. Heck, I'll still break out Fate of Atlantis on occasion - there's just something appealing about a psychic/supernatural communicator being posessed by a small-horned God-creature shortly after you took control of a Nazi U-boat with a combination of sucker punches and battery acid that keeps you always coming back for more.

Hmm... digital crack. Uh-oh.

Re:Full Throttle

[wbeck85]

Fate of Atlantis is a great game. My parents pulled me out of public school in 5th grade and I spent the next two years playing it non-stop. By that time, it was already a somewhat dated game, but it ran on my 486 and later my Pentium without a hitch and I eagerly explored every single nook and cranny I could find. It is truely an amazing game. Ahhh. the nostalgia. When I heard of ScummVM for Linux (emulator for Lucasarts SCUMM games) just last year, I immediately whipped out my old Atlantis CD, only to discover, much to my dismay that it was scratched beyond repair. I was really heartbroken. Geez, it sounds like I'm a real loser for getting so excited over one old computer game. But gee, that really was fun.

Re:Full Throttle

[Nasarius]

By the way... Nasarius: Full Throttle is Sam & Max, and the sequel to that is what they're on about :)

I admit that I only ever played the demo of Full Throttle, and that was a looooong time ago. Which is strange, because I think I played every other LucasArts adventure game. I'll have to go find it.

Re:Full Throttle

[Obi-w00t]

If only they would make a sequel to Outlaws...that would be great.

Pre-visualisation?

[Audent]

You mean, there was actually a vision? With the Star Wars prequels?

Where?

Come on, it was bad enough Han Fired Second but to make Yoda into Hong Kong Phooey and Darth Vader into a whiny teen... puhleeze.

Worst Use of Natalie Portman Eva.

Some actual visualisation would be nice.

Mocap suits

[Runesabre]

They could (if they haven't already) hook up actors with mocap suits or whatever devices needed to translate live actor movements instantly onto the 3D avatars on the virtual stage to really speed things up.

Re:Mocap suits

[loserface]

It'd be even better if the suits could be hooked up to force the actors into performing whatever motions had been preprogrammed with the avatars.

Re:Mocap suits

[Gulthek]

That's the technique used for the XBox game "Indigo Prophecy". It worked quite well.

Droidmaker

[Doytch]

For anyone interested in the Lucasarts story, including the kickass games, I heartily suggest the book Droidmaker. I got it and it was an awesome read. Lucas was involved in a helluva lot of stuff.

Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[khasim]

How hard is it to visualize a shot?

#1. If it is real life with real actors, you already have years and years of experience looking at it in 3D. It's called "life".

#2. If it's computer animation, it's fake so it doesn't matter. They create what you want them to.

This is where "art" comes in. It's not just directing, it's lighting and cinematography. Playing with a toy isn't going to make your movies any better.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you really understand what goes in to creating a film. For each scene in a film, there are practically an infinite amount of possibilities for the lighting, movement and position of actors, camera placement and angles, and any combination of the above. A storyboard is usually laid out for to get an idea for the general flow of the film. Then, even the best director will usually whittle down the possibilities to a handful or more...for many, many scenes. For each blocking combination, the types of cameras, angles, and general placements have to be reset. Same goes with lighting colors, intensities, angles and placements. Sometimes even the actors' entrances, exits and lines need to be redone to fit the blocking in the scene. The man hours required for all this, for each scene, are immense and therefore, so are the costs. All this, with relatively little action and/or special effects. By using a 3d program where some of this can be "pre-visualized", where actors, cameras, lighting, can be re-adjusted and rough ideas of special effects included, potentially could be a tool to cut down on time, cost, and improve overall quality of a film. I'm not saying that it should be a crutch for bad directors, but that it could be a good tool if used correctly.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[TheGavster]

Secondly, is visualization really what Lucas needs help on? The special effect and action sequences were pretty stunning (the story behind RocketD2 and Kung Fu Yoda were lame, but looked cool), but the dialog and actual *acting* scenes were pretty lame. I think what they need a team of voice actors to actually say this stuff while they're writing it down ... maybe early enough in development that they could hear how terrible it is.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[Chabil Ha']

Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

If you think that Peter Jackson is a mediocre director, sure. The Lord of the Rings included *numerious* pre-visualization shots. If you watched any of the bonus content on the DVD's, you would see some of the pre-vis stuff on the Mines of Moria scenes where the Fellowship is being chased by the Orcs. I think the movie was fabulous, and if pre-vis made the movie any better (which IMHO it did) then let the mediocre directors continue their work.

Visualization has at least two benefits that I think of right off the top of my head.

1. You as the director may be able to visualize what needs to happen, but communicating that to other people can be difficult if you don't have ESP. This allows the artist to communicate an idea to other people via a medium that is easy to conceptualize. Yes, that's what story boards are for (like the article says), but

2. It allows you to build a set without going through the costly motions of actually having to do it. This goes for virtual sets as well. While this method seems a lot more expensive than hiring a graphic artist to draw it in 2D story board cells, 3D permits you to make changes without having to redraw a whole frame, this in turn allows the crew to explore changes and make iterations very quickly. It also makes a good point of reference for those who are responsible for creating CG add-ins to the movie.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[v3a]

CG is a medium in which the possibilities are boundless. Previz is pretty much the main way that FX houses limit the work from 'boundless' to do-able in a fixed time with a fixed budget. And regarding the directors who use it - in my experience normally the more savvy directors use previz. I bet Hitchcock would have used previz if he had the chance - he planned the minutae of every shot.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[garyboodhoo]

Previsualization itself is nothing new. Shakespeare did it, Ansel Adams did it, etc... The technology changes over time. Shouldn't it? Not sure why you think its a tool for mediocre directors, when artists (working solo & collaboratively) having been using previz techniques for centuries. The alternative is to "just do it" and hope it works out for the best.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[DCstewieG]

Let's pretend you are a director working on a movie and you have an incredible idea for a scene involving CG. It's actually an original idea, so you can't tell your tightwad producers, "oh it's kind of like this movie, but with elements from that movie." To try to get a bigger budget do you...

a) Stand in front of them and attempt to describe in detail what you plan to do
b) Spend a week with CG artists to be able to SHOW these producers what you can do with that bigger budget

I think I'd pick B, how about you?

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[Kataton]

Peter Jackson used traditional storyboads, models, and real life actors for previsualization in addition to the CG ones.
It's good taste, not computers.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[Haeleth]

He did'n said that visualization is not useful.

But he did say that it would only be useful for mediocre directors.

He would presumably say that a machine such as you describe would be useful only to mediocre sculptors. But I prefer to keep my mind open to the possibility that Rodin might have produced even greater works, or a greater number of works of equal genius, if he had been able to use such a device to translate his vision into sculpture. Of course, he might equally have found it limiting and rejected it. That's part of what being an artist is: knowing which tools are the best for you.

The point is that we cannot simply declare that it would not have been useful on arbitrary grounds. The fact that a tool is most obviously useful to the mediocre does not automatically make it useless for a genius. The guitar is widely perceived as an instrument for casual musicians, while the violin is thought of as more suitable for "serious" music... but I know which I'd rather listen to a Hendrix play.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[dolphinlover]

"He did'n said that visualization is not useful. It can be, but it's still just a tool."

He says it's not hard to visualize a shot mentally, given experience looking at shots in real life. He also says computer animation is "fake" and "doesn't matter". Finally, he calls it a "toy" that "isn't going to make your movies any better"

At least to me, he made a pretty big inference that it is not useful.

Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.

[yndrd1984]

Things like "Playing with a toy isn't going to make your movies any better" and "it's fake so it doesn't matter" sound quite a bit different than "it might be a good addition to what directors already use".

Visualisation is the only thing he's good at now.

[khasim]

I hated Episodes I & II and still haven't seen Episode III.

But, look at each still shot. They look good. The characterization sucks. The plot sucks. The dialog sucks. The timing sucks. The motivation sucks. None of it has any logical flow behind it.

But the still pictures are very nice.

Reminds me of totalwar...

[radiotyler]

The series on Total War on the History Channel, where they use game engines to recreate epic battles. This seems to be a similar idea, except they're turning the mock ups into actual development scenes (before shooting them, redigitizing, and adding super special effects.) and not really using the engine for any sort of finished project.

I hope ideas like that start becoming more commonplace. I like the idea of using 3-D digital storyboarding in realtime, it sounds pretty awesome. It'll be exciting to see if this turns into more of a production tool that ends up getting used in movie and not just in the development process.

Lucas doesn't like human actors

[CrazyJim1]

I heard somewhere that Lucas doesn't like directing actors because the actors may not act in the way he wants them to, and he prefers CG because the actors do exactly what you want them to do.

Re:Lucas doesn't like human actors

[nEoN nOoDlE]

So what happens when George Lucas gets digital actors to do exactly what he wants? That dinner sequence in Ep1 where Jar Jar sticks his tongue out at Qui Gon Jin. Let George stick to poorly directing actors instead of poorly directing CG actors.

Re:Lucas doesn't like human actors

[SynapseLapse]

This is quite true and also one of the reason why Episodes 4, 5, & 6 were so much better. (Although admittedly still quite campy sci-fi). It's well known that Harrison Ford pretty much ignored all direction from Lucas and went with his gut.

For example, in the famous scene where Han Solo is frozen in Carbonite, Leia says "I love you" and Han replies "I know." It's a great scene and fits the character of Han Solo quite well. Lucas was furious stating that he wanted Han Solo to reply "I love you too."

But, I'm sure in the extra special 3rd mix dub edition of Star Wars, we'll hear the dialog remixed that way.

Re:Lucas doesn't like human actors

[garyboodhoo]

Hitchcock's disregard for actors is well known, so is Ridley Scott's. They've both made a couple of good films :) Lucas' real problem is unlimited access to everything. He's clearly done significantly creative (and human-centered) work in the past. Working for a while within the most restrictive constraints would do the man a world of good.

Welcome to 1999, George

[Dracos]

Peter Jackson and WETA started using pre-vis before production began on LOTR.

Other firms may have used it even earlier.

Re:Welcome to 1999, George

[Orrin Bloquy]

What Dracos said. Then again, we're talking about the man who sold Pixar for a tenth of his asking price because he couldn't remember to plug his wife every now and then.

Re:Welcome to 1999, George

[glzrt]

Read the last 3 paragraphs carefully.... the quote from the article doesn't really touch on the syngergy between LucasArts and ILM. It looks to me like ILM is trying to do coordinated game and movie development - probably using the same models, effect engines, artists and scripters.

A thought comes to mind... did EA have any easy way to bring movie LOTR geometry in the game engine? More probably they spent lots of money: either on converting the models or remaking them to render in realtime on a console. Perhaps the scenes needed to be reengineered as well.

From the economic point of view the more a product costs to develop the less risk you want to take in making something innovative, the more units you have to sell to turn a profit and the higher the entry barrier for a small company. I'll wager this is true of movies as well as games.

Re:Welcome to 1999, George

[malducin]

Peter Jackson and WETA started using pre-vis before production began on LOTR. Other firms may have used it even earlier.

Yes and Lucasfilm was a pioneer of previs long before PJ and Weta. In fact Peter Jackson, Randal William Cook and a small group went to Lucasfilm around 1998 and visted ILM to see how previs was done there and later setup a dept. at Weta for the production of the first LOTR.

You could say storyboarding is a kind of previs, and Lucasfilm was a pioneer in using animatics for previs purposes (animated storyboard for Empire Strikes Back and using toys and a video camera to previs the Endor bike sequence in Return of the Jedi).

Re:OMG

[Douglas Simmons]

Just imagine how awesome this first post would have been if rendered in a 3D environment!

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[rewinn]

> The dialog sucks

Worse than sucks; it's unnecessary. If you eliminate the dialogue entirely, not much changes. It's that visual. The dialogue adds ... not much positive.

Every word after Obi-Wan cuts off Skywalker's legs is a negative, e.g. "I loved you man!" is something no actor needs to say; it's evident from the acting. The worst lines in all six movies is when the dying Portman (shades of "Love Story") says, "I think I'll spoil one of the plots points of the next movie by telling the audience that Luke has a sister named Leia on Alderan."

The series is a lot of fun and makes "Lord of the Rings" look pretentious, but really: didn't Lucas ever watch Star Wars?

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[norton_I]

The line is "You were the chosen one" and it is one of the best lines in the moive.

Plot inspiration

[Anonymous Coward]

Videogames will be a great aid to creating stilted dialog for Lucas' movies. What we can expect in episode VII:

80-year old Hans Solo: What happen?

Yoda: The bomb has somebody set up us, hmmm...

A marketable purple gay alien chipmunk: We get signal!

Reincarnated Darth Vader: AYBABTU.

...

Re:Plot inspiration

[AnalystX]

What plot hole did I miss that's going to allow Yoda to come back from the dead?

Re:Plot inspiration

[ZOmegaZ]

HANS? Geek card. Now.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[bckrispi]

The characterization sucks. The plot sucks. The dialog sucks. The timing sucks. The motivation sucks.

Actually, the charaterization and plot were far beyond what Lucas did in the Original Trilogy. It's just that whiney, disgruntled "George Lucas Raped My Childhood" fanboys can't reconcile these facts when faced with a minor character like Jar Jar and five minutes of difficult "love" dialog.

I think I speak for the entire Star Wars fan community when I say, with all candor, "quit your fucking bitching already".

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Nasarius]

According to this, both lines are in the film.

OBI-WAN: (continuing) . . . You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would, destroy the Sith, not join them. It was you who would bring balance to the Force, not leave it in Darkness.

OBI-WAN picks up Anakin's light saber and begins to walk away. He stops and looks back.

ANAKIN: I hate you!

OBI-WAN: You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you.

Of course, the very worst dialogue was between Anakin and Padme. Episode II was so painful.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but the results are in, the SW prequels suck. The only reason the "first three" were any good was that Lucas as a budding writer actually listened to advice from other, more skilled writers, not so in the prequels.

George Lucas paints pictures with a baseball bat. The dialogue in all three prequels is downright painful if you have even a passing interest in writing.

Seeing Lucasfilm made me excited, then sad.

[SynapseLapse]

I saw that and for a split second I thought I would be seeing more from the old company that brought us Zak McKracken and Maniac Mansion. Some of us still fondly remember the old adventure games.

I'm sick and tired of their recent obsession with 3d, it just doesn't look as good. I would love to see a 2d adventure game from them that would run natively at 1600x1200 and scale down to lower resolutions.

Can anyone honestly look and tell me that this 3d Sam & Max has more artistic style than this 2d Sam & Max??

Or this is better than this?

I'm not opposed to 3d games mind you, lord knows I didn't buy this Nvidia board for running OO.org faster and Grim Fandango was utterly phenomenal. I'd just like to see Lucasfilm games, lucasarts, whatever, spend more time in making a well written, well crafted worlds and games, rather than just "Wow, it's an adventure title, but in 3d!"

Re:Seeing Lucasfilm made me excited, then sad.

[Jesus_666]

Grim Fandango was utterly phenomenal.

Except for the utterly horrible controls. Seriously, some genres aren't really suited to be played with a gamepad and adventures are one of them.

Like Machinima?

[Buddy_DoQ]

Wait Mr. Lucas, you mean you're just now hearing about Machinima? We've been doing it for 10 years now! Well, with Lucas on board maybe the market for niche pre-vis real time 3D tools will kick up finally. All I can say is, open source Lucas, OPEN SOURCE!

Re:Like Machinima?

[malducin]

Not really, Lucasfilm and ILM has been doing previs for ages. Although as far as games engines use is concerned, one of the big first applications at ILM was duringb the production of Spielberg's A.I. Artificial Intelligence, where they built 2 systems.

As far as the market, it has really exploded lately. One of the first using modern technology was Pixel Libertarion Front (they use Softimage), but people from Lucasfilm/ILM left and created 2 companies specifically geared towards previs: one is Halon Entertainment (cofounded by Dan Gregoire) and the other is Persistence of Vision (cofounded by David Dozoretz).

If Yoda spoke Zero-Wingese

[rsilvergun]

wouldn't the two cancel each other out, resulting in proper grammar?

Re:If Yoda spoke Zero-Wingese

[patio11]

Say what, you? The bomb somebody will set us up.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Nasarius]

I think I speak for the entire Star Wars fan community when I say, with all candor, "quit your fucking bitching already".

Maybe you do. I used to be a huge Star Wars geek. I read all the novels, bought the "reference books", absolutely loved the X-Wing games, etc. I quit when Episode I came out. I don't see how you can even compare the quality of the prequels with the incredible stories that other authors have written. Not just Zahn, but nearly every writer has come up with far better material than Lucas. The stories suck. The dialogue sucks, and not just the abysmal Anakin/Padme crap.

Will it be coder or a debugger?

[beldraen]

The first thought about this is: What happened to imagination?

The tools we use (like language) influence us in our choices and views. While greater tools can allow greater accomplishments, their purpose is should be to allow a complex process to be addressed simply, not to allow a simple process to be more complex.

In computers, one of the best ways to get a real understanding of computer programming is to debug a program without a debugger. At most, using a couple of print statements to allow some additional helpful information. The advantage to a lack of information is that it requires A) truly understanding how the mechanism works which leads to B) attempting to keep the code human-readable.

In places where a debugger is available, I have seen too often that the tool is use to simply find the problem and move on. After all, if I know that the loop is crashing, break the loop before the end of the run and see why it went too far. This is great for catching simple errors, and I do not knock the debugger for helping me realize that I accidentally incremented the wrong variable. What I do like is that people raised on debuggers generally cannot see anything other than simple operations. It will not explain why mutex is not being freed or many systemic problems; however, because he or she was never forced to think through his or her problems, the symptom of the problem (not the problem itself) is coded around at the location where the problem shows up in the debugger.

I cannot help but think that while this tool will be used to model some nice things, but I think a lot producers fail to realize that most people will happily take some good acting, a reasonable plot line, and intriguing dialog over wiz-bang camera zooms. Thank God for Battlestar Galactic.

Re:Will it be coder or a debugger?

[nEoN nOoDlE]

pre-production isn't about getting wiz-bang camera zooms. It's about getting the whole film from your minds eye to the screen so you can debug problems in story and structure before you encounter them on set, as well as giving everyone a good idea of what the director wants. This is just the digital equivalent of making good storyboards, and storyboards have been around forever. Alfred Hitchcock used to storyboard his movies and cut those boards down to the number of frames a shot should be. This technology just makes that process quicker and more intuitive.

Re:Will it be coder or a debugger?

[fbjon]

Good camerawork will improve a movie in ways that you really won't realize unless you actively look for it. It's not just about having the camera move and zoom to show what the actors are doing.

Also, imagination is good, but currently it isn't directly transmittable to other imagination processors.

Re:Will it be coder or a debugger?

[mgblst]

The first thought about this is: What happened to imagination?
 
The whole idea of creating movies is about transferring imagination into a concrete represenation of that story. This is just adding an extra step, to ensure that the process is proceding correctly.

writing?

[mccoma]

how about you spend some of that money on actual writers.......

Re:writing?

[emjoi_gently]

That was my exact thought!
He needs a gadget to help him write believable dialog.

is this new?

[Dionysus]

Hasn't Lucas always done pre-visualization? I remember the making-of documentary of Return of the Jedi, and they used Star Wars action figures to create the speeder chase scene. I would think the only difference between then and now is that they are doing everything in the computers.

Re:is this new?

[malducin]

Yes, they have been doing it for ages and Lucasfilm has been a pioneer in movie previs.

What people seem to miss is what the article really is talking about. ILM and LucasArts for the most part worked with separate pipelines/infrastructures. Now that they're in the same facility in the Presidio, they share one. The new pipeline is based on Zeno, ILM's propietary 3D environment, which was first fully used on The Island and War of the Worlds (Zeno is actually based on dynamics code originally written for Star Wars Ep. 1).

value of the unstated word

[eamonman]

Every word after Obi-Wan cuts off Skywalker's legs is a negative, e.g. "I loved you man!" is something no actor needs to say; it's evident from the acting.

I think that whoever directs the next one (in 2020 or whatever), or even if someone could re-cut the current film, needs to crop out all the superflous dialog. A deeply pained expression, a furtive glance, a slight nod; these are the things that I saw that could have replaced the pre-teen bor-a-thon dialogs. Just think if Lucas and Co. realized that! You would have the first ever DVD directors cut which is actually shorter than the original.

For example, here's a cut from the (from script. I'll bold things that seem unneeded, and italicize anything I might add:

226 INT. POLIS MASSA-MEDICAL CENTER-NIGHT

POLIS MEDICS work, on PADME in an operating theater. OBI-WAN and one of the MEDICAL DROIDS enter an observation room where BAIL and YODA are waiting.

MEDICAL DROID: Medically, she is completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her.

OBI-WAN: She's dying?

MEDICAL DROID: {PAUSE }... We don't know why. She has lost the will to live. We need to operate quickly if we are to save the babies. twins.

BAIL ORGANA: Babies??!! {Give happy yet sad and shocked look}

MEDICAL DROID: She's carrying twins.

YODA: Save them, we must. They are our last hope.

The MEDICAL DROID rushes back to the operating room. ARTOO and THREEPIO watch, greatly puzzled. ARTOO BEEPS.

C-3PO: It s some kind of reproductive process, I think.

227 INT. CORUSCANT-IMPERIAL REHAB CENTER-DAY

ANAKIN, in the medical capsule, is lifted onto a table in the Rehab Center. DROIDS go to work on him. ANAKIN has new legs and a new arm.

228 INT. POLIS MASSA-MEDICAL CENTER-NIGHT

The TWINS are being delivered as BAIL ORGANA, YODA, ARTOO, and THREEPIO watch. OBI-WAN is in the operating theater with PADME. He takes her hand. // Nice! That's all! Shut up Ewan!

OBI-WAN: Don't give up, Padme.

PADME winces from the pain. The MEDICAL DROID is holding the BABY.

MEDICAL DROID: It's a boy.

PADME: Luke . . .

PADME can only offer up a faint smile. She struggles to touch the baby on the forehead.

MEDICAL DROID: ... and a girl.

PADME: . . . Leia.

R2-D2, THREEPIO and BAIL ORGANA watch from an adjoining space.

229 INT. CORUSCANT-IMPERIAL REHAB CENTER-DAY

VADER, dressed in his black body armor, lies on the table. Nose plugs are inserted and the mask drops from above, sealing tightly. The helmet is fitted and VADER begins breathing.

230 INT. POLIS MASSA-MEDICAL CENTER-NIGHT

OBI WAN leans over PADME and softly speaks to her.

OBI-WAN: You have twins, Padme They need you . . . hang on.

PADME: I can't . . .

PADME winces again and takes OBI-WAN's hand. She is holding Anakin's japor snippet.

OBI-WAN: Save your energy. {Give calm yet pleading look instead}

PADME: Obi-Wan . . . there . . . is good in him. I know there is ... still . . .

A last gasp, and she dies. Obi-Wan studies the necklace.


------
I think that would have been better, although I just cut 90% of Ewan's lines. Oh well. Do that to the entire movie, remove some of those 20+ second long CGbation scenes whenever we enter a new planet (6 seconds max is all need).... I'd buy that for a dollar! ;)

Re:value of the unstated word

[somersault]

The whole of the '1st' 3 episodes basically just explain things that were all implied from the original 3 episodes - for those that want to watch the series in order, every single piece of plot is ruined. It would be better if you didnt find out about Luke and Leia at the end of episode 3 - and what on earth is the point of have R2 and C3-PO apart from just to make people go "w00 artoo and seethreepee-ooooh!" etc. The whole thing is a waste of time - there are plenty of Star Wars books, none of which I've read, but I'm sure there is more than enough history and interesting stories that have already been made for the Star Wars universe, that would have been much more interesting to put on film than the cash-ins that were made.

I already knew the history of what happened in episodes 1,2&3 from either implications from 4,5,6 and reading some lil 'Star Wars facts' type book that my lil bro had, which said Darth was put into his suit after having a fight with Obi Wan near some lava pits and falling in. Meh.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[masdog]

You consider Darksaber better than Episode I?

Blue screen hell...

[jamescarl]

Now they just need some snap in objects to pre-visualize character development. If these guys could make Natalie Portman look boring, imagine what they could do with animated actors (Jar Jar roles in his grave). -- Royal with cheese!

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[foreverdisillusioned]

No, the all the characters from the original trilogy (with the possible exception of Luke, at times) were very well characterized, well acted. The prequels, on the other hand, regularly make people visibly cringe--Jar Jar, whiney teen Anakin shouting "it's not fair!", Dax the four-armed alien who swoops and soars over his lines so badly I'm nearly positive the voice actor was stoned out of his head, bad romance, Vader's "Nooooooooooooooooooooooo"--so retarded it puts Luke's "Nooooooooooooo" to shame...

That said, the plot doesn't really suck (though the pacing and focus does, at least in places) and some of the allegory and pivotal scenes are very, very good indeed, especially in episode 3. Anakin's fall to the dark side was handled nearly perfectly, as was the parallel to today's pathetic "freedom fries" society, and I think it's too bad that people choose to ignore this and bring up only Vader's Noooooooooooooooo and Anakin/Padme's very short sequence of nausiating dialog.

As someone else said, I don't think you can speak for all of us--plenty of Star Wars geeks think that the prequels suck... usually it's those of us who have an ounce of objectivity. This isn't just rose-colored glasses. In the original trilogy, I think that Luke was sometimes badly acted and the Ewoks were over the top (and a rather transparent marketing ploy.) But this simply doesn't compare to the horrible new characters from the prequels and their insipid dialog...

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Nasarius]

I did say *nearly* every. In defense of Kevin J. Anderson, Darksaber was a sequel of sorts to Barbara Hambly's "Planet of Twilight", which was much worse. On the upside, neither had Jar-Jar or an annoying kid. I think. There were some awful novels with Han and Leia's brats, too. Okay, so not all of it was gold.

But we're talking about movies where millions of dollars were spent creating the CGI effects. I expect they could have at least hired an editor to clean up the dialogue, you know?

A good example of integration

[Edmund Blackadder]

Let me give you a good example of the "integration" of the movie and gaming divisions of Lucasfilm. I remmeber when I saw phantom menace there was a half an hour part of the movie that had nothing to do with the rest of the plot or the development of the characters.

It was the pod race. I kept thinking "why is this in the movie" ... "and why in the world do they spend so much time introducing various racer characters which are obviously completely unrelated to the plot" ... "and why are the big jedi who are supposedly on an important mission waiting for this kid to race around" ... but then the pod race started looking familiar to me... it reminded me of a lame PS1 racing game called wipeout (i think). And then I thought wow ... they have this whole thing in the movie only so that they can sell a lame clone of a PS1 game.

Sure enough a day or so after i saw people playing a wipeout clone which features the phantom menace pod race.

I guess this is what they call synergy in the movie business.

Re:A good example of integration

[weicco]

I loved the part! It had nothing to do with the story but it looked great! I buy paintings (well, if I had money) because they look great so why wouldn't I watch some movie or part of the movie because it looks great. Only thing I like better in the Jar-j.. Phantom menace is the light saber dueling.

Re:A good example of integration

[vitamins]

Legolas, and Gimli trying to one up each other was in the original book though... which was well before the advent of video games. Not to say there have not been a lot of less than ground breaking video games dashed out to take advantage of LOTR's success as well..

Re:A good example of integration

[notea42]

Now that you mention it, large portions of Episodes I, II, and III seem to be either crafted specifically for videos games or inspired by them. Some specific examples include the nonsensical battle through the factory in Episode II (complete with NES Era stomping machine) and the duel in Episode III between Obiwan and Anakin (lava level with silly jumping puzzle).

A few things....

[two.oh]

I'm worried about a few things that the article discusses. Yes, it sounds exciting that LucasArts and ILM are doing collaborating in the future. What I'm afraid of however, is that in the CG industry, there seems to be a technological 'progression' that trivializes the purpose of the traditional (ie. concept artists, storyboard artists, etc.)

Sullivan discusses that pre-viz is a good and modern solution, but he doesn't mention that pre-viz can also be slower and less fine tuned than the work of a storyboard artist. Illustrators can offer style, better/faster continuity, and the ability to develop an entire shot rather than developing rough 3D-geometry. If it were up to me, I'd keep both around.

So sure, the technology and tools get better, but it doesn't necessarily make a better film.

Disney made that mistake with their cel animation department, and they all got laid off (thank god for Lassater).

Square did it with Final Fantasy and threw away the storyline.

ILM seems to be a very traditional studio in the sense that they follow a typical pipeline for production. I just hope they clearly understand the benefits of keeping these illustrators around.

Re:A few things....

[malducin]

Yeah, ILM keeps a sizeable Art Dept. which does illustrations, sketches, concept art and the like. Also people in the Model Shop do sculptures and maquettes of concepts for pre-production.

Let me be on the record as saying

[irimi_00]

While we are on the topic of George Lucas, let me be on the record as saying that Lucas is going to pull a Kerry and decide to go ahead and produce Star Wars 7 8 and 9. 3 was just too much of a downer to to be the last one made. You can tell me how right I am later.

Re:Let me be on the record as saying

[transami]

I'll only go seem then if Quentin Tarantino get to direct. George should have saved face and calle dhim in when ep.I got so much flack. George you got old man, face it!

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Mr_eX9]

Actually, the charaterization and plot were far beyond what Lucas did in the Original Trilogy.

That's only because Lucas didn't direct Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. The reason he did more for the prequels was because he wrote and directed all three of them--the quality of this increased contribution is debatable.

I love Star Wars, and even if the prequels were complete insults to cinema (which I don't think they are) that's not going to change. However, I do think that JarJar added nothing to the story and that the relationship between Anakin and Padme was portrayed and written poorly. I've heard better romantic dialog out of my high school classmates than the sappy, uninspired dialog in episodes II and III.

Fortunately, Lucas is amazing with the his visuals, and always has been--any movie he's involved in is worth seeing once for all of the eye candy. Sadly, that's where Lucas' creativity ends, leaving plot and character to suffer as a lower priority than the little creatures that are crawling around in the background.

Bottom line: The prequel trilogy is basically a fireworks display. You watch the movies for brilliant colors and explosions--if you're looking for philosophical statements, characters you can relate to, or a convoluted plot, you're going to walk away displeased or quite possibly enraged.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[robogun]

Is it also whining when we complain about the suckage known as the matrix sequels, or are you going to defend those turds too.

All of these sequels should never have been made, because they have the effect of diminishing the original, all for the sake of more money. Lucas is especially culpable in that he rewrites the original. It is not just Jar Jar and badly acted love scenes (I almost said Jar Jar in badly acted love scenes, hopefully Lucas doesn't read this and get ideas for 7).

It is inconceivable for a writer to rewrite his/her fiction novels, why do you praise Lucas for doing the same? Can you imagine multiple versions of any classic fiction?

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[bckrispi]

It is inconceivable for a writer to rewrite his/her fiction novels

Three words for you, pal. "Bull fucking shit".

If you pick up a copy of "The Hobbit", you will find that there are some glaring differences when compared to the first printing of the story. In the original When Gollum lost the riddle game, he was a good sport - showing Bilbo to the door and letting him keep the Ring . Read that again, slowly, and imagine how pointless the Lord of the Rings would have been if Tolkien *hadn't* revised his story to fit in with his grander vision.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[moogleii]

Actually, the charaterization and plot were far beyond what Lucas did in the Original Trilogy. Uh, no.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[drsquare]

But, look at each still shot. They look good.

Really? I thought it looked like one huge computer game. Is this what passes for special effects these days? 2001 had more realistic looking space ships and that's ancient.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[mholt108]

"quit your fucking bitching already".

oh yeah - thats what im talkin about

not a star wars fanboy - just reakon the films are a blast ... and slashdot posters become a bigger bunch of whiney anakins evey day ..

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[bckrispi]

As someone else said, I don't think you can speak for all of us--plenty of Star Wars geeks think that the prequels suck... usually it's those of us who have an ounce of objectivity. This isn't just rose-colored glasses.

With all respect, "Bah!" Objectivity has baptkus to do with it. I claim that all the GLRMC haters out there suffer from "Boba Fett Underoos Syndrome". You all have a preconception of the original films from when you were young, impressionable, easily impressed, and loved playing in your Boba Fett Underoos. You had over 20 years to fill in your own backstory of Anakin, the Jedi Order, and the Old Republic. When Lucas gets around to finishing the story, the characters and plot are *nothing* like you imagined. You simultaniously cry "foul" and collectively develop false memories of "Uncle George" raping you in your sleep. How *dare* he mess with the story you've been brewing in your head since childhood!!

In all honesty, It took me a *long* time to accept Phantom Menace. So many of the concepts and ideas introduced were nothing like what I had imagined. "Virgin Birth? Distant, uncaring Jedi? Trade Federation? midi-fucking-chlorians??? What the hell?" But as the pieces fell into place, and I gave up my 20 year preconceptions of the story, I came to understand what the story was trying to say, and the direction Lucas was taking with it. And when all was said and done, the dichotomy of Anakin's fall, the irony of his 'birth', and the subtle political manipulations of the Sith *more* than made up for a few awkward moments concerning Anakin's dislike for sand.

In the original trilogy, I think that Luke was sometimes badly acted and the Ewoks were over the top (and a rather transparent marketing ploy.) But this simply doesn't compare to the horrible new characters from the prequels and their insipid dialog...

LOL! You bitch about the characters of the prequels but forgive the Ewoks? Come on. Licensing whoring aside, how can you reconcile the fact that the best legion of the most powerful Empire the galaxy had ever known was done in by a bunch of Teddy Bears with spears!?! Sorry bub, be an OT apologist all you want, but I'll take the Battle of Geonosis, Kashyyyk, or Utupau *any day* over the Battle of Endor.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[masdog]

Thank you! Its about time there was some sense in the Star Wars community. The movies, despite their problems, weren't THAT bad.

Sure, Anakin Skywalker went to the darkside because he was desperate to prevent his visions of his wife's death from coming true. No one would ever be tempted by the devil to save the woman (or man) they love from death?

And yeah, that love dialog from Episodes II and III sounded like it came from two socially inept, isolated teenagers who had never been encouraged to explore their feelings.

The Prequels really stood out in some areas, but were disappointing in others. Yes, the dialogue could have used work in most cases. Kevin Smith should have been brought in to ghostwrite on the project. Sometimes, the characters would have been better off saying nothing at all.

That isn't to say that the dialogue was all bad. In Episode III, I thought some of the interactions between Obi-Wan and Anakin were pretty good. The dialogue of the other Jedi, while dry in some spots, really wasn't terrible.

I think the biggest reason why a lot of people didn't like the prequels is that it is hard to live up to the originals. In some ways, Lucas had to fit certain characters into a mold so they would develop into the ones we see in the original trilogy. I'm no author, but I suspect that it would be very hard to do and could cause problems. And yes, the acting was a bit wooden, and that is clearly Lucas's fault. He isn't an experienced director, and he didn't know how to handle his characters.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Negatyfus]

I think I read it somewhere in an interview in a Playboy article. "A Star Wars movie wouldn't be a Star Wars movie if it had good dialogue."

Quit your whining already. I actually enjoyed Episode II and III's stories.

Re:OMG

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"FIRST POST"

In the original version, I posted first!!

F.O.R.C.E

[_ph1ux_]

F.O.R.C.E. == Flexible Optical Recreation [of] Cenematic Environments

F.O.R.C.E. == Film Origination Realized [through] Computer Enhancement

(in all seriousness though - this is what the Presidio was designed for - was to facilitate extremely high collaboration between the groups developing digital media. I think that (someone) will be successful (moreso than now) with this, I can only hope though that as this tech matures the "plastic-ness" of the generated movies will dissapear (e.g. King Kong)

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Jesus_666]

They should have hired Bioware to completely rewrite them...

As I'd put it...

[wild_berry]

Anakin's fall to the dark side was handled nearly perfectly

I guess I can only talk about what biases and observations I would have included had I told Anakin's story. Essentially, Anakin's fall to the dark side is about whether the ends justify the means -- whether we can do bad things with te justification of good intent. Anakin, without even having taken The Trials, is groomed to lie to the Jedi Council and to protect his family. Nowhere does he appear to stop and give this issue of ends-versus-means time for consideration appropriate to our present societal state: political interests in foreign countries and at home causing conflicts with our commitment to Human Rights and freedom. Is it right to do bad things to safeguard that freedom?

Whn it comes to stupid noises at times of strife, shouting "Nooooo!" must run in the family. I think that Luke's story needs more to be told of how Darth Vader is the bogeyman and represents to Luke what pure evil is (perhaps with his friends suffering at the hands of the Empire to motivate Luke to take up arms against the Empire) so that his existence as the son of Anakin can justify such shock and horror.

Re:next thing you'll know...

[antek9]

Where can I download that Firefox 7: Anonymous Coward edition you are bragging about?

But actually, I think you're making a valid point. Advent Children was a great step forward in all-out CG movies, just compare it to that _other_ FF movie, the folks at Square really did their homework this time. Even if it was pure fan service and many people were disappointed about story & characterization for example (I wasn't), they still put the Star Wars prequels to shame.
While I really don't need more films out of the SW universe, should the urge to do / redo some more arise and be unresistable, why not restrict Lucas to delivering some general ideas about the story and some more detailed ones concerning visuals, let the script, characterizations and dialogue be done by one or two skilled writers like William Gibson or Neal Stephenson (just two out of many, and hell, just for laughs, let Rosamunde Pilcher do Episode 2 - The Ultimate Romance Edition!) - as opposed to let large teams of mediocre writers ruin every single bit of creative thought that was (supposedly) there in the first place -, and leave the rest to Square Pictures, or better yet, Square Enix.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[1u3hr]

It is inconceivable for a writer to rewrite his/her fiction novels

Lots of authors do that. One major (in SF terms anyway) is Michael Moorcock. Many who later become more famous can republish their earlier works and take the opportunity to revise or restore cuts. But sometimes, like Lucas, it proves to be an ill-advised ego-trip. Heinlein, for instance, released versions of his novels with cuts restored, eg Red Planet with an additional lecture about gun rights; proving only the wisdom of his original editors. But even when the new version is actually an improvement, as a reader I'd prefer they got on with new stuff rather than polishing up an old work. Life is too short to spend on reruns.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[fbjon]

Hear hear. Some people act like episodes 4-6 were something other that rather wooden acting, fireworks, and lots of imagination.

I'd say the people who complain endlessly and needlessly about 1-3 have simply forgotten how to be a child.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Tim C]

I'd say the people who complain endlessly and needlessly about 1-3 have simply forgotten how to be a child.

That's probably closer to the truth than you realise. Most of those people will have first seen (and fallen in love with) 4-6 as a child, and as such they have a special signifigance to them.

They've seen 1-3 as adults, with an adult's view of things, and they simply can't compare to their childish recollection of 4-6. Sure, they've seen 4-6 as adults too, but you know the old saying, "first impressions last".

I didn't think 1-3 sucked that badly, but then neither did I consider them awesome. On the other hand, while I certainly enjoy the originals, I didn't consider them to be life-altering either.

for a movie that everyone loves to bitch about

[way2trivial]

why the hell do you have to keep reminding me of the WORST PARTS>. if we stop discussing it, we can FORGET ABOUT IT PEOPLE...

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Sigg3.net]

But the still pictures are very nice.
Yes, but it is their aggregate that makes the films. And they suck.

What these films lack is charisma. (I haven't seen III yet, and my brother tells me it's the most SW-type of film. But it definitely goes for I and II.)

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Negatyfus]

Absolutely. Some memories will never have their equivalents. Many modern first-person shooters are much better than Doom. Will Doom ever lose its glory in my mind? Never! You can't replace the first time you see a Cyberdemon or play a deathmatch game. That said, you can be objective about it and enjoy more recent titles.

I never understood how some people somehow take things personal when they don't like the direction something has taken and act all offended about it.

the human element

[argStyopa]

It's the best example of the kind of collaboration we've got going on.
I think the collaboration would be better, if it was simply someone with enough balls to say "Hey, George, an Amos and Andy alien is a titanically stupid idea. You should rethink that."

Oh, and listening to him would be a good idea too.

More technical gizmos don't make a basically bad idea any less bad.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[3.14159265]

I think I speak for the entire Star Wars fan community when I say, with all candor, "quit your fucking bitching already".

eheh! gotta love those logical fallacies

misguided, perhaps

[3.14159265]

It's a tool that directors would use to quickly mock up the ideas of a story and see what's going to work.

Yeah, sure, because when I think of good, well thought and well written stories, I think of that wonderful second trilogy.
Unless those films were meant to mock the fans, in which case they very well lived to their expectations!

sigh... since when do pretty graphics make the story? Seems the gaming industry's been stuck with this too...
-----
Born stupid? Try again.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Testicon]

Yep, I agree as well, which is why when i went to see Ep. 1-3 I put myself in the mindset from when I was little and I loved it. I still do that to this day when I watch my DVD's of all 6 movies. Now, are Ep. 4-6 better than 1-3? Hell yes they are. But some of you who complain that 1-3 are horrible, re-watch Ep. 4 with the mindset of an adult....that movie wasn't all that great in the dialogue nor the acting. But we still loved it didn't we??

Lucas' vision proves he is terrible

[gosand]

I heard somewhere that Lucas doesn't like directing actors because the actors may not act in the way he wants them to, and he prefers CG because the actors do exactly what you want them to do.

George Lucas is an idiot. He bitched for years that the original trilogy wasn't what he wanted, they weren't his real vision, etc. And they were fantastic. With the prequels, he was promoting how his vision could finally be realized - and it sucked. He got what he wanted, and the movies were terrible. They were annoying and trivial, the ONLY redeeming quality about them was that we knew where there story was going. If these movies had come out in order at Lucas' hands, the series would have died. The only reason the originals were good was because Lucas wasn't as involved with them. The more he got involved, the more the movies went downhill. You can pick them apart and analyze them, but in essence, they were just mediocre movies that capitalized on their legacy.

I have to say that I haven't seen Episode III yet, but I really have no desire to see it. This isn't about Lucas ruining my childhood or anything that tragic - it's just that he makes terrible movies. No computer-generated anything is going to help him with that. He is a talentless hack who got lucky long long ago, in a galaxy far far away.

Re:Lucas' vision proves he is terrible

[galen]

Let me recommend that you see Episode III. In my opinion Ep.III *is* the prequel to IV, V, & VI. Toss I & II, forget they ever happened. Like you, I had little desire to see it after I & II, so we skipped it in the theatre, waited a long time after it came out on DVD. When we finally sat down and watched it I was so pleasantly surprised I wanted to start it over from the beginning.

Now, that's not to say that Lucas can direct. On the contrary, the acting was stiff and dry in places, but the story was enough to push this one along despite Lucas' bumbling.

Anyway, give it a chance, you may be surprised.
~~galen~~

Lucas-X get over it

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

First, drop the Star Wars franchise, at least for a decade. You have exhausted any creativity or appeal to this tired concept and ideas like television shows and new games will fall flat.

Second, Lucas, the future of movies isn't in making everything a special effect. I am sure if George had his way he would have preferred making the last Star Wars film entirely digital, including the actors. For God's sake, there was more emotion and conviction in digital Yoda's performance then ALL the live actors combined (largely because Lucas can't direct, period). As much as computer special effects and 3D rendering is growing in leaps and bounds, it is a fad that will wain. The goal of 3D effects is to make it look realistic, to integrate it into live action to a point where you can no longer tell the difference, not to simply cheap out on set design by having actors jump around in front of green screens.

Lucasarts/film need a new muse, a new product that ISN'T Star Wars or even Indiana Jones to concentrate on. I mean, literally, Lucas is on-hit-wonder, stretching out Star Wars: A new hope over the last 30+ years.

I would love to see Lucasarts concentrate on new ideas, start making movies or games with other themes or offering their skills to other movies. Instead, Lucasarts is just some ego stroking ulterior entity of George Lucas filled with people that need to learn to say "No George, I don't want to ruin creativity and innovation just because you want Yoda spinning around like a Tasmanian devil". Lucas needs to retire and let his enterprises spread innovation around in Hollywood rather then working on yet another Star Wars spin off product.

Honestly, Lucas needs to see a shrink because I think he has escaped to a galaxy far far away and long ago and can't let go of it. Time for a new thought Lucas, 30+ years is enough obsessing about Leia.

Re:Lucas-X get over it

[two.oh]

What's with this hostility? How could you say Lucas can't direct? Have you seen Electronic Labyrinth/THX 1138? The guy is a genius.

Secondly, you don't call Star Wars III,IV,V a 'on-hit-wonder' when they were three films, not one.

Also, Indiana Jones, Willow, THX 1138, Star Wars, and American Graffiti, were all good movies (albeit IMHO, episode 1+2 were terrible).

And no, the goal of CG is NOT to make it look realistic. The goal of CG is to SUPPORT the story.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Swanktastic]

All of these sequels should never have been made, because they have the effect of diminishing the original, all for the sake of more money.

The Matrix was ripped off from a science fiction writer who submitted her script to the Wachowski Brothers in the 1980's. An FBI investigation and court proceedings decided that they had indeed stolen her work and awarded her damages. In fact, thirty minutes of footage was edited out of the original because these segments were verbatim plagiarism of the original work. It's no wonder the sequels were crap- the brothers actually wrote the scripts themselves.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Malakusen]

> If George Lucas had any ability in writing dialogue, this is the point at which Anakin would have said that he did bring balance to the Force... the Light side of the Force was too dominant before Anakin came around. Think about it, you had hundreds of Jedi on the light side and 2 Sith on the dark side. Not balanced. Then after Anakin, it had 2 Jedi and 2 Sith. When Obi-Wan died, Luke took his place, leaving the force with 2 Jedi and 2 Sith. The force was imbalanced again after the end of RotJ, with both of the Sith dead, but since the only Jedi left at that point was Luke and he's a pussy like his dad, chances are it's a wash.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Malakusen]

I think I speak for the entire Star Wars fan community when I say, with all candor, "quit your fucking bitching already".

All the ones that are left anyway. The rest of the fan community isn't anymore, after the prequels. If you're left, then yeah, you probably have drunk the Kool Aid.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Malakusen]

Actually, yeah. Maybe not better then Episode III, but a dog could crap a better movie then Episode I.

OTOH, Episode I was better then another movie I saw recently, "Ultraviolet". That's neither here nor there tho.

This is surely change the way films are made.

[k2005quark]

I for one, welcome our Howard the Duck II overlords. This will surely make reality the Radioland Murders, the Decomposing Years. And of course, the next ONE HUNDRED EPISODES OF STAR WARS, THE SERIES. Imagine, a hundred episodes where George Lucas's ferbid imagination is brought to crystal life. Yes, the medoclorians are strong in that one.

Re:This is surely change the way films are made.

[Orrin Bloquy]

For those of you who don't get the reference above, "Radioland Murders" was another film farmed out to Wilmington North Carolina's 1990s nonunion paradise before the industry turned to Vancouver.

The dailies were so awful that Lucas flew out to NC and reshot most of the scenes himself but left the original director's name on the credits. [I was doing theatrical resumes for a living there at the time and this comes from people who were in the production.]

Like Bryce?

[Gilmoure]

There's so many basic 3-D apps out there, with support for lighting, animation, cameras, etc., I'm suprised this is news, today. Maybe 10 years ago. Or are movie people behind the times?

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[masdog]

I've heard better romantic dialog out of my high school classmates than the sappy, uninspired dialog in episodes II and III.

And I think that is part of the problem with the perception of the prequel trilogy. No one takes a moment to understand the characters for what they are.

Who is Anakin Skywalker? He is a boy who was torn away from his mother, the only person who really cared for him, told that he was the Chosen One who had this great destiny, and then trained not to have any feelings. At some point, he discovers that he loves/lusts after Padme Amidala and encouters feelings he's never had explained to him or was told to repress. Has he had the benefit of normal social interaction with kids his own age? For a while, but then he was thrust into Jedi training.

Who is Amidala? She's the girl who was Queen. As a teenager, she had the burden of ruling a planet, a position she was most likely groomed for from birth. That hardly leaves room for her to have a normal childhood that would lead to a well-adjusted adult.

Both characters are isolated and lonely. Heck, Anakin is still probably that 7 year old boy on some levels.

Everyone likes to criticize the writing of the prequels and claim that the romance dialogue was mishandled without ever stopping to look at it from the perspective of the characters. They're not normal teenagers. They've never had the benefit of going to a school or having "normal" social interactions. And despite all this, Anakin is somehow supposed to become Casanova or Don Juan.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[masdog]

When Steven King republished the Stand, he added over 300 pages to his novel.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Jurrasic]

Kevin Smith should have been brought in to ghostwrite on the project.

My brain just exploded from a vision of Obi-Wan sarcastically asking a walking-by Padme if she'd ever had her a$$hole licked by a fat guy in an overcoat...

balance to the Force

[rewinn]

> balance to the Force

With respect, I don't think the balance is one of numbers, or of power. What this 'balance' is, is not clearly stated in the movies. Ignoring any official backstory as developed in the books, comics and games (....on the grounds that I haven't read or played them) it seems clear from the movies is that the imbalance is caused by a because feature of the Jedi order: A Jedi Is Forbidden To Love An Individual.

This feature stunts the emotional development, in humans at least. Look at the "Wise" Mace Windu --- he has no idea that he is driving young skywalker to homicidal revolt. Even Yoda, when taken into Skywalkers, partial confidence, can't figure out that the basic problem is that the power and fear of love is wracking young Skywalker, something that any high school guidance counselor would instantly understand.

The Jedi may be swordsmasters, in turn with life and the universe, and generically in love with everything, but they don't understand the love of individuals built into each of us.

This imbalance that has an important 2ndary effect: it's breeding power over the force OUT of the Jedi line. At the end of the series, balance has been replaced as the surviving Jeni Leia is deeply in love Hans and the future Jedi order will have to give up on celebacy. Definitely an improvement, and all due to Anakim's homices.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[bckrispi]

Exactly! The love dialog was contrived, painful, and embarassing. Which, is arguably exactly what an obsessed 20 year old virgin would sound like when the object of his lust is within his reach.

I thought Ewan McGregor sold the lines

[Phil Urich]

> Every word after Obi-Wan cuts off Skywalker's legs is a negative, e.g. "I loved you man!" is something no actor needs to say; it's evident from the acting. The worst lines in all six movies is when the dying Portman (shades of "Love Story") says, "I think I'll spoil one of the plots points of the next movie by telling the audience that Luke has a sister named Leia on Alderan."

You note that he shouldn't have had to say the lines, and you're entirely correct, but that was one case in the movies that I felt that these actors, good elsewhere but terrible under the thumb of Lucas, actually showed some chops.

Alas, it misled me in the trailer, with that little clip of it that made me sit up and go "hey, maybe the characterization and acting will actually be good in this one!" Oh, foolish optimism. See, seeing one bit of that outburst out of context had an impact, as Obi-Wan's pure emotion was palpable; having to watch that scene and hear every bland iteration of redundant dialogue was painful, and I felt a sympathy for what amounted to torture of the actors.

Not to say that I didn't rather enjoy the film. But I only saw it once, and admittedly the bad parts of the first bit of the film were glossed over by a brilliant suggestion by one of my friends: in order to survive the dialogue and acting, she suggested beforehand that we pop into the nearby pub. So that was kindof cheating.

Re:I thought Ewan McGregor sold the lines

[rewinn]

Fair 'nuf! I too enjoyed the movies, all of them, the same way I enjoy comic books: without shame and without expectations. And definitely not for the words balloons.

It must have been painful for the actors; perhaps they used the pub method as well.

What do I need to get SCUMM running on my DS?

[LKM]

I've been playing through old LucasArts adventure games with my DS

What do I need to do this? I used to play them on my P800, but I switched to a Treo and they run too slow to be playable. I own a DS and would love to play these games on it.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Pxtl]

The Ewoks at least had some casualties in their fight - compare v. the Gungans in Ep1.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Pxtl]

Heheh, Forever War has a similar "author restores a cut that was a good idea" - second chapter shows the world has turned into something between inner city LA and a third world country warzone - it was rather over-the-top. The original version that the editor had insisted on was a F451-esque brainwashed world. The problem is that he left in dialogue referring back to the F451-world when he restored his original chapter, so there is comments complaining about how brainwashed people were in the 21st century, when the chapter that took place in that time shows a 3rd world hellhole.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Pxtl]

Ep III is _not_ "the most SW-type film". Ep III is just more of the same as ep 1 and 2, but then done over-the-top. More chaos, more ships, more explosions. Then make it dark and violent.

The dialogue is still painful. The cameos are still pointless. The action is still flat. But there's so much more going on it manages to be fun anyways.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[Mr_eX9]

Padme is in her 20s during Episodes II and III, but that's just a technicality. :P

I understand what you mean with the perception problem surrounding the characters. Unfortunately, I suspect actors did not understand the point about their characters that you just raised. Why? Because Lucas isn't an acting director. These people aren't paid to think--they're paid to act. Sad truth, I suppose.

I maintain my positon that the writing is mediocre. Not shitty, not offensive, just mediocre and a bit unpolished. Example: I think Padme, in her 20s, would be capable of better self-expression than shrieking "YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART!!!1!!1" like a middle schooler.

If you want awkward and embarrassing teenage romance that's more authentic than anything you'll find in Star Wars, you need to watch Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no

[robogun]

Never read / seen LOTR, but looked thru the Wikipedia entry for Tolkein, it sounds as this might not be the same type of thing - he altered the original work that had made him a success, in order to construct a framework for a larger fiction world and subsequent novel.

Furthermore, revision seems to be a SF only thing. Perhaps from the scientific method?

Seriously, if you're OK with all these alterations, you'll find it's really going to suck 20 years from now when the LOTR you love and treasure is altered to fit whatever profit / PC / whim of the time.