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Why Windows is Slow

hype7 writes "The New York Times is running an article on why they think Windows is so slow. They boil it down to one key factor - legacy support - and they hold up Apple as an example of a company willing to make hard decisions around legacy support in order to provide a better product. From the article: 'Windows is now so big and onerous because of the size of its code base, the size of its ecosystem and its insistence on compatibility with the legacy hardware and software, that it just slows everything down ... That's why a company like Apple has such an easier time of innovation.'"

12 of 885 comments (clear)

  1. Transitions.... by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Interestingly, I've found Apple to be very willing to integrate backwards and forwards support in their OS. In the transition from 680X0 to PPC, Apple made sure to include some very clever programming that allowed a native and non-native apps to co-exist. In the transition to OS X from Classic, they included Classic as a virtual environment and in the transition from PPC to Intel, they are working very hard on Rosetta, another environment that preserves people's investment in their software.

    In contrast, I've had a fairly difficult time getting older software on Windows to even run sometimes. We kept a Win95 box around for the longest time because of some very specific software we needed that would not run on anything else.

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    1. Re:Transitions.... by ChristTrekker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Intel move is a major HW architectural shift. However, there are quite a few 1984 Mac apps that ran on every MacOS through 9.2, and still ran in Classic mode on the latest PPC Macs. That's survival through 20 years, one major HW architectural shift, and one major and numerous minor OS architecture changes already. That's nothing to sneeze at. For the Intel jump, Apple is providing Rosetta, so that at least 5 years of OS X code can be transitioned. That's not a bad effort, either.

      I'm not saying Apple or MS is better or worse in legacy support, that's not my point. But your parent certainly isn't all "spin". Apple's done a darn good job, all things considered.

    2. Re:Transitions.... by grotgrot · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Virtually all Windows software from 2000-1 still runs without any issues.


      You can download Visicalc from http://www.bricklin.com/history/vcexecutable.htm and it will still work. It is from 1981. It targetted MS-DOS 1.0 which was before subdirectories existed (the big feature of MS-DOS 2).

      As I like to say, Microsoft puts the backwards into backwards compatibility.

  2. same as hardware really, ms laziness? by joevai · · Score: 3, Interesting

    firstly i think the same could be said of pc hardware - we are still limited to the pc architecture designed decades ago, noone is willing to go out on a limb and produce truly flexible hardware given that it simply won't work with anything else. This is partly the reason why games consoles can put out much more power than an equivilent pc - they can be designed from ground up to be super-efficient without any legacy concerns at all (obviously the fact their hardware never varies makes it easier to code things more close to the steel)

    secondly, i wonder whether it's not microsoft being obsessed with legacy support, more that they don't want to spend $$$ on getting windows developers to root through the code and take it out. They simply carry legacy support through windows versions as they're always working from the same base. As always with ms it's $$$ >> quality. I'm sure a lot of their coders get irritated with legacy issues..

  3. The Old New Thing by twanvl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The old new thing, describes some of the hacks win32 uses to stay compatible with badly written applications. Things like dummy events, hidden windows, duplicate event stacks, etc.

  4. Re:Windows is slow? by Dolda2000 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I agree with you on one point: Windows XP is probably faster in many respects than running GNOME on FC5 or Ubuntu 5.10, but I'd have to respectfully disagree with basically everything else you write.
    because while hardware advanced, Linux still uses technology from 20 years ago to talk with the graphics card (X11)
    The performance problems in no way lie in X11. It's more than well possible to run X11 programs that are exactly as fast as Windows programs. The problems lie in GNOME and KDE using far too much memory (and probably CPU cycles as well). That's GNOME and KDE, though -- not X11. Try any alternative window manager/desktop environment, and you're likely to see a vast speed improvement.
    still lacks kernel audio mixing
    So does Windows, though. Neither Windows nor Linux uses kernel audio mixing -- they rely on hardware mixing instead. All somewhat modern sound cards have several PCM subchannels that operating systems use in order to play several sounds simultaneously, and, yes, it is perfectly supported by Linux. Last I tried (admittedly, that was some time ago, but I can't remember just how long), using Windows with a single-channel sound card meant that I could only play one sound at a time.
    still lacks in PnP department (removing a "mounted" USB flash stick anyone?)
    I really don't know what you're getting at here. There are no problems whatsoever with removing a mounted USB flash stick, and there hasn't been since at least FC3.
    still has abysmal support for various multimedia devices
    So does Windows, though. Basically all those multimedia devices are supported on Windows by third-party drivers as well, only that they are written by the device manufacturers instead of independent reverse-engineering developers. Since that doesn't matter in practice, though, I cede this point to you.
    I'm not even going to mention hibernation because I know that doesn't work properly in Linux.
    That's weird, because I happen to know that it does work properly in Linux (at least on those computers that have proper ACPI hardware implementations). I both suspend and (periodically) hibernate my Linux laptop (a Dell Latitude CP), and I've never run into a problem with it. And yes, 15 seconds sounds about right.
    And when Vista comes out this or next year (who cares when, it will be awesome anyway) - it will be even faster.
    Well, that remains to be seen. I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
  5. Re:Apple Provides SOME Legacy Support by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 4, Interesting

    First you make a system that works according the specifications, and only after that should you worry about optimizations.

    That's easy to say in 2006, but 10-15 years ago the "footprint" of the OS was a huge purchasing decision.

    Why do think Apple dumped so much money into Copeland? Because at that point in time, the average Mac had 8MB of RAM and they could never have shipped a Unix-based OS that required 64MB or so of memory.

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  6. VM Layer or legacy-free installs? by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think a better solution would be a legacy-free OS that would have XP-level compatibility but would provide a VM layer configurable as DOS, NT4 or Win2k, depending on the need of the application.

    If this isn't practical (having to run one each of the above layers could gobble tons of RAM), then at least providing a way to do a legacy-free installation with the option of adding support for older environments later. Systems that didn't need it wouldn't have to have it added, perhaps improving performance.

  7. Are you serious? by Yosho · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You have a modern system running Linux that can run a binary that was compiled 10 years ago? That's honestly pretty hard to believe. Can you give an example? And I mean a ten-year-old binary, not source code that's ten years old and will compile and run today. I suppose it's possible if we're talking about "Hello, world", but otherwise, I would imagine that every single library that any given program depends on has changed considerably.

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  8. Re:Windows is slow? by shane_rimmer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wonderful! Now taks a Windows XP disc with any service pack slipstreamed that you may want, reinstall the operating system on that laptop, and tell us how many of the special features still work.

    I am not against Microsoft, and I make quite a bit of money developing software for their operating system, but I have found that more stuff works out of the box on my systems with various linux distros than what works with a vanilla install of Windows.

  9. You want faster Windows? by Mayhem178 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Despite the fact that this article has little to nothing to do with the "slowness" of Windows loading/execution (which is, of course, debatable depending on the app in question), I'll indulge the M$ haters and throw this into the mix.

    If you want faster Windows, use nLite. It's a beautiful tool that lets one take a Windows XP installation CD and make any number of modifications to it: remove unwanted components/drivers, preset Windows settings, slipstream hotfixes and service packs...even completely automate the installation process by presetting all installation information (license key, etc.). Then, it generates a brand spanking new ISO for you to burn and use for installation. It's glorious.

    After nLite-ing my personal XP installation, I must say I have never been happier with Windows. I've left it running for weeks with no problems. A fresh installation of my nLited XP is just over 1 GB of HDD space (whereas the typical XP installation can top 3 GB). It could have been less, but not without removing several components that I wanted to keep.

    Granted, this tweaking is not without its quirks. I do occasionally get a warning about "unrecognized file versions", but thus far ignoring them has not caused any problems. I would suggest the following though: I know it's tempting to remove IE right off the bat, but trust me when I say don't. It is needed for some very important functions (such as updates). Also, I would caution against removing Windows Media Player as well. Sure, you may never use it (hell, I never did), but if you remove it, it takes its codecs with it, which can cause other apps to not function properly (such as Winamp). I guess you never know what you have until it's gone. If you're bound and determined to remove it, then I highly recommend the ACE Mega Codecs Pack as a replacement.

    Happy hacking!

    --

    "You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles

  10. Be careful how far out your ass you talk. by Inoshiro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can grab the statically linked binaries off of my Simtel CD set that includes Slackware 2.x and run them. The old statically linked a.out files will run if I put that executable support in, and any statically linked ELF binaries also load fine. Both of those existed 10 years ago (right around when most people had switched to ELF).

    Dynamically linked ones can work, too, provided I install the libraries that support them (and I can install them concurrently with modern libraries, since their names include the versions of their interfaces). Only libraries and programs that directly use the Linux system call interface (not the POSIX interface) are unlikely to work.

    Quake binaries of that era function. The OpenGL 1.x interface they use is provided via my OpenGL libraries. OSS is emulated by Alsa. I can use fancy new binaries given by the Quake source code, if I want, but it's not required.

    In fact, the best part about Linux you could say, is that I am not locked to archaic binary interfaces because most of my code is available in source form to everyone, including people who are willing to recompile it for me and provide it in a nice distribution (Kuuntu) with minimal interaction on my part.

    So we can support legacy, but we choose not to. This choice is important in software use freedom.

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